Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts

[CarolMN]

That's what we are told but how are wait lists really handled?

Wait lists are a pain for MS. They create extra work and prior to the new rule they really created extra work. Why were we not always contacted by phone or email when our wait list were filled? Because it created extra work. Why aren't we contacted now? Because it creates extra work.

Here is an example of a wait list for a member if they requested any studio at AKV.

Value Studio Jambo
Standard Studio Jambo
Savanna Studio Jambo
Concierge Studio Jambo
Standard Studio Kidani
Savanna Studio Kidani

Coincidence that the new "two only" rule went into effect prior to Kidani being available?

I have been told by MS that wait lists are matched at night so call back every day at the end of business and you might get what you want without a wait list.

Conversely, I have also been told by MS that wait lists are matched all day long so calling every day won't help.

Which is it? seems like MS doesn't really know.

How many members have reported that they just happened to get their match when they called in. Coincidence?

I have also been told by MS that the wait list software has problems and that the more requests a member had, the more problems it made for the software. Instead of fixing the software, they reduced the number of allowable wait lists.

Members pay for MS through their dues. If a change results in less work for them, members benefit.

You may have a point about changes benefiting Disney (I personally don't agree), but this example does not support your opinion.

 

[Chuck S]

That's what we are told but how are wait lists really handled?

Wait lists are a pain for MS. They create extra work and prior to the new rule they really created extra work. Why were we not always contacted by phone or email when our wait list were filled? Because it created extra work. Why aren't we contacted now? Because it creates extra work.

Here is an example of a wait list for a member if they requested any studio at AKV.

Value Studio Jambo
Standard Studio Jambo
Savanna Studio Jambo
Concierge Studio Jambo
Standard Studio Kidani
Savanna Studio Kidani

Coincidence that the new "two only" rule went into effect prior to Kidani being available?

I have been told by MS that wait lists are matched at night so call back every day at the end of business and you might get what you want without a wait list.

Conversely, I have also been told by MS that wait lists are matched all day long so calling every day won't help.

Which is it? seems like MS doesn't really know.

How many members have reported that they just happened to get their match when they called in. Coincidence?

I have also been told by MS that the wait list software has problems and that the more requests a member had, the more problems it made for the software. Instead of fixing the software, they reduced the number of allowable wait lists.

But, why would Disney care? Isn't Member Services part of our budget...so more efficient (less CM time required) equates to holding the line on our dues? Another case of benefitting the membership as a whole?

 

[Dean]

That's what we are told but how are wait lists really handled?

Wait lists are a pain for MS. They create extra work and prior to the new rule they really created extra work. Why were we not always contacted by phone or email when our wait list were filled? Because it created extra work. Why aren't we contacted now? Because it creates extra work.

Here is an example of a wait list for a member if they requested any studio at AKV.

Value Studio Jambo
Standard Studio Jambo
Savanna Studio Jambo
Concierge Studio Jambo
Standard Studio Kidani
Savanna Studio Kidani

Coincidence that the new "two only" rule went into effect prior to Kidani being available?

I have been told by MS that wait lists are matched at night so call back every day at the end of business and you might get what you want without a wait list.

Conversely, I have also been told by MS that wait lists are matched all day long so calling every day won't help.

Which is it? seems like MS doesn't really know.

How many members have reported that they just happened to get their match when they called in. Coincidence?

I have also been told by MS that the wait list software has problems and that the more requests a member had, the more problems it made for the software. Instead of fixing the software, they reduced the number of allowable wait lists.

Most systems don't do wait list or if they do, only for reservations prior to when they are available to other members such as prior to the 11 month window. To DVC, each of those items you list is a different option, even if they are essentially the same to you. The easiest thing for them to do would be to do away with WL altogether, just like they essentially did away with any meaningful request effort because people were too difficult to deal with. Rather than tell you that they simply would not accept requests that were inappropriate and too specific such as for specific units or similar, they simply gave up. I would totally agree if they're going to do it, they should do it appropriately and not half way but sometimes there are realities. That doesn't translate to any type of reasonable conspiracy though.

Here's an example. I had a WL in with II for an extra unit for Marriott's Grande Ocean. I was trying to trade up big time using a studio from a weaker resort to a 2 BR at one of the toughest places and weeks to get so I wasn't surprised it hadn't come through. However, once we got insider the short notice exchange window (60 days), I was hopeful that something would come available short notice. We were there anyway for those dates at that resort so I told them they could match even the day the week started and it would be fine. I then got up early every morning and searched the computer several times during about a 1.5 hour period. About 8 days out the exact thing I'd been looking for showed up but had not matched my ongoing search even though I could pull it up online using the same exact deposit I was searching for. I don't know why and I doubt II does either but I was sure happy to get the week and have extra room for our group to spread out to 3 units rather than the 2 we own.

 

[Dean]

But, why would Disney care? Isn't Member Services part of our budget...so more efficient (less CM time required) equates to holding the line on our dues? Another case of benefitting the membership as a whole?

The counter point is that MS costs are fixed at 12% and thus any savings is in their pocket, or conversely, any extra costs are out of their pocket. Most management systems expect to make about 35% to take home, I wonder what Disney projects to take from the DVCMC contract?

As I noted at least twice in this thread, any member can go and look at the books. You make an appt and head to Celebration and meet with the people there. To my knowledge, only one person has every done so. Anyone who is up in arms and plans to continue as a member might want to consider this. Possibly as a group to minimize the disruption of the system.

 

[disneynutz]

Maybe my problem is that I talk to too many Disney employees who hint at their inner workings. Too much knowledge can sometimes be a bad thing.

One reason Disney tries to keep the dues low is to attract more buyers. I specifically asked why BLT dues are being subsidized by Disney. I know that it's a small amount but why go through all of the hassle. There must be a reason? No one at Disney will tell me why.

Disney intentionally marketed BLT as the "cheapest dues of all of their resorts". That kinda takes the bite out of the fact that the point cost is higher and the required points for a stay are higher. Disney's current incentive price for BLT is low because of the economy and marketing time lines and projections that haven't been met. I have also been told that we can expect a dues "adjustment" after BLT sells out.

 

[Dean]

Maybe my problem is that I talk to too many Disney employees who hint at their inner workings. Too much knowledge can sometimes be a bad thing.

One reason Disney tries to keep the dues low is to attract more buyers. I specifically asked why BLT dues are being subsidized by Disney. I know that it's a small amount but why go through all of the hassle. There must be a reason? No one at Disney will tell me why.

Disney intentionally marketed BLT as the "cheapest dues of all of their resorts". That kinda takes the bite out of the fact that the point cost is higher and the required points for a stay are higher. Disney's current incentive price for BLT is low because of the economy and marketing time lines and projections that haven't been met. I have also been told that we can expect a dues "adjustment" after BLT sells out.

More likely you put too much stock in what they tell you. Then they go to the water fountain and talk about the members who's chain they pulled. I would put to you that there are many on this BBS who are going to know more about the reasons for many things than would your average CM at MS. It's like looking around the internet researching a given item. You see a lot of misinformation often by well intentioned people. Disney has supplemented many new resorts as do many timeshares including Marriott. BLT points are cheaper dues in part because it's spread over more points. Each resort pays their own way so if one resort is more efficient for some reason or has less expenses, that savings will be passed on. HH, OKW and SSR have been those resorts in the past, going forward, SSR is likely to be the cheapest due to the building and resort setup. The ONLY reason for subsidizing the fees is to make the sale look more attractive, nothing wrong with that.

 

[Chuck S]

Maybe my problem is that I talk to too many Disney employees who hint at their inner workings. Too much knowledge can sometimes be a bad thing.

One reason Disney tries to keep the dues low is to attract more buyers. I specifically asked why BLT dues are being subsidized by Disney. I know that it's a small amount but why go through all of the hassle. There must be a reason? No one at Disney will tell me why.

Disney intentionally marketed BLT as the "cheapest dues of all of their resorts". That kinda takes the bite out of the fact that the point cost is higher and the required points for a stay are higher. Disney's current incentive price for BLT is low because of the economy and marketing time lines and projections that haven't been met. I have also been told that we can expect a dues "adjustment" after BLT sells out.

Dues, I would think, would naturally be cheaper in a high rise type building, less "common area" and less landscaping area for maintenance. Property taxes on the other hand...

 

[WebmasterDoc]

Maybe my problem is that I talk to too many Disney employees who hint at their inner workings. Too much knowledge can sometimes be a bad thing.

One reason Disney tries to keep the dues low is to attract more buyers. I specifically asked why BLT dues are being subsidized by Disney. I know that it's a small amount but why go through all of the hassle. There must be a reason? No one at Disney will tell me why.

Disney intentionally marketed BLT as the "cheapest dues of all of their resorts". That kinda takes the bite out of the fact that the point cost is higher and the required points for a stay are higher. Disney's current incentive price for BLT is low because of the economy and marketing time lines and projections that haven't been met. I have also been told that we can expect a dues "adjustment" after BLT sells out.

DVC has subsidized every resort while it was being sold. Early buyers at VB are still being subsidized ($0.44 per point) for resort amenities that were promised but never added. Those who purchased later do not get that subsidy and are paying the full amount. Even OKW had a $0.06 per point subsidy for 2008.

The developer subsidy at BLT for 2009 is $0.05 per point. While that subsidy may disappear when the resort is completely sold out, the small amount of the subsidy shouldn't present much of a hardship for those owners. Otherwise the annual fees do reflect the actual operating costs at each resort.

As already noted the dues at BLT are also based on the higher point requirements for stays at the resort. That, coupled with the footprint and design of the resort, should continue to allow for a lower annual fee (on a per point basis) due to more efficient maintenance expenses.

 

[DVCGeek]

I had done the tour and been given a specific and incorrect piece of information on that tour which I had counted on to make my purchase decision. I was unhappy at first about it and DVC did offer to buy it back and make me whole due to this issue.

What was the incorrect information?

 

[Dean]

What was the incorrect information?

That the free tickets then available were good for the entire LOS rather than for just the number of nights, basically a difference of one day's tickets for each trip for each person. I had names, specifics and documentation. I was ready to let them have it and walk away but my wife wanted to give it a try so we did and we're glad we did. They were very nice and understanding about it and very appropriate IMO. I'm convinced the guide in question was honestly mistaken and would guess he was the guide for others here at some point.

 

[WebmasterDoc]

We had a somewhat similar experience back in 1996.

We had already purchased at OKW in 1993 and were vacationing at HH in March, 1995. We were already aware of the addition of HH as the 3rd DVC resort and we visited the sales office located near the location of the present resort. We decided to add on at that time and the purchase price then was $61.50 per point. We toured the construction - everything was a hard-hat area and we could not actually go onto the site. They were pouring concrete for the Beach House and were able to view the construction on Longview Island (the small island the resort sits on) from the west side of the inlet near what is now the Ocean Grille. In the sales brochure was a section about a private island to be DVC owned for the use of HH resort guests for shelling, nature walks, picnics and other recreational activities. While it did not really play a role in our decision to puchase, it was a nice feature and certainly added value to the resort.

We never received any further communication about the resort until shortly before our closing was to take place in the spring of 1996 (a year after signing all documents and paying the deposit). We had a June Use Year and even though the resort opened in March, 1996 we would get no points until June, 1996. Just before our closing date we received new documents to sign and found that our purchase price had been reduced to $57.50 per point since "some of the offered features" would not be available. The only "feature" we could find missing was the private island.

Unlike Dean's experience, in this situation, DVC was proactive about modifying the sales for those who purchased pre-construction and were promised something in writing that would later not come to fruition. We gladly accepted the changes, signed the new documents and added on more points.

 

[LenaN4fun]

I also noticed the conversion in points from 2009 to 2010. I remember when I purchased into DVC, my sales rep stating the points were locked in at each resort, that the only thing that changes is how much you pay per point. Such as I would pay more per point today then I did back in 2002. I am very confused on how the points can be manipulated at all? Can someone tell me, did I misunderstand or is DVC pulling the ole switcheroo later in the game?

 

[yitbos96bb]

I also noticed the conversion in points from 2009 to 2010. I remember when I purchased into DVC, my sales rep stating the points were locked in at each resort, that the only thing that changes is how much you pay per point. Such as I would pay more per point today then I did back in 2002. I am very confused on how the points can be manipulated at all? Can someone tell me, did I misunderstand or is DVC pulling the ole switcheroo later in the game?

Without a tape recording or time machine who knows if the guide was less than truthful or you misunderstood. It is in the contracts though that Disney can do this and legally that is all that matters

 

[Chuck S]

I also noticed the conversion in points from 2009 to 2010. I remember when I purchased into DVC, my sales rep stating the points were locked in at each resort, that the only thing that changes is how much you pay per point. Such as I would pay more per point today then I did back in 2002. I am very confused on how the points can be manipulated at all? Can someone tell me, did I misunderstand or is DVC pulling the ole switcheroo later in the game?

The points are locked in at each resort, the TOTAL number of points to reserve every room at the resort for the entire year can not change. But they can be re-arranged within the chart, as we've seen in 2010. There should be a maximum possible re-allocation listed for your resort in your paper work. This maximum re-allocation gives you the number of points (or in the case of the original paperwork for OKW the maximum number of consecutive nights you can reserve with a specific number of points for each room type) if DVC eliminates all booking seasons and makes weekends equal in points to weekdays.

As the previous poster said, we have no idea if your guide misled you, or if you misunderstood the message s/he was trying to convey. It can be a daunting task to try to understand all the implications and subtleties of ownership during a 2 or 3 hour tour.

 

[chalee94]

my sales rep stating the points were locked in at each resort

they are locked in at each resort. the total pts for each resort for each year is constant when you consider each room for 365 days.
but that doesn't mean that a studio will always be 12 pts for a given weeknight in december...

 

[famsen]

So if the total numbers of points are locked in for each resort, does that mean for example; if points go up for a Saturday night stay in December, then the points would have to go down by the same number for some other room type for day of the week or time of year, correct?

Let me just state that I was one of those members that specifically asked a guide at DWTD in Chicago if point charts can go up. I had my friend with me who was interested in buying and this was one of her very important sticking points for the deal. We were both told absolutely that the points can never go up. I understand now the I may not have asked the question in a way to get a thorough answer but the answer we received also wasn't explained to the fullest extent by the guide. My understanding now if that the total points for the resort can't go up but if we like to stay during certain times of the year, we could either pay more or less at that time but maybe be paying more or less if we were to stay at a different time of year. I hope I have this correct now.

 

[Dean]

So if the total numbers of points are locked in for each resort, does that mean for example; if points go up for a Saturday night stay in December, then the points would have to go down by the same number for some other room type for day of the week or time of year, correct?

Let me just state that I was one of those members that specifically asked a guide at DWTD in Chicago if point charts can go up. I had my friend with me who was interested in buying and this was one of her very important sticking points for the deal. We were both told absolutely that the points can never go up. I understand now the I may not have asked the question in a way to get a thorough answer but the answer we received also wasn't explained to the fullest extent by the guide. My understanding now if that the total points for the resort can't go up but if we like to stay during certain times of the year, we could either pay more or less at that time but maybe be paying more or less if we were to stay at a different time of year. I hope I have this correct now.

Not necessarily. They could go up for weekends and down for weekdays the same time of year or unit size or they could go up for one time of year and down for another. While it's worded somewhat differently, the main requirement is that the totals have to end up the same for the year. Realize the the entire unit for lockoff's are what are controlled, not the underlying smaller components, and that a given change can't be more than 20%. Also, the points are based on a fixed year (base year), not any given year, I suspect they are all based on 1992. Some would say if it's off by 1 point, this is not the same. I would personally disagree with that line of thinking in this setting. Realistically if you go for an entire week it's unlikely you'll see much change overall.

 

[Chuck S]

So if the total numbers of points are locked in for each resort, does that mean for example; if points go up for a Saturday night stay in December, then the points would have to go down by the same number for some other room type for day of the week or time of year, correct?

Let me just state that I was one of those members that specifically asked a guide at DWTD in Chicago if point charts can go up. I had my friend with me who was interested in buying and this was one of her very important sticking points for the deal. We were both told absolutely that the points can never go up. I understand now the I may not have asked the question in a way to get a thorough answer but the answer we received also wasn't explained to the fullest extent by the guide. My understanding now if that the total points for the resort can't go up but if we like to stay during certain times of the year, we could either pay more or less at that time but maybe be paying more or less if we were to stay at a different time of year. I hope I have this correct now.

Also take into account it is the total number of points, and there are 5 weekday, and 2 weekend nights, so basically, weekend nights could go down by 5 points each, for a total of 10, and weekday nights could go up 2 points each, for a total of 10. Then consider that there are a different number of nights in each "season" so if there is one season 5 weeks long, and another season one week long, weekdays in the long season could drop 2 points each for a total of 50 points, and the short season could go up 25 points for each weekend night for a total of 50 points. But, there is a bit of a limit...no one night may change by more than 20% from the previous year. It is also dependent upon the total number of rooms in each size at the resort. For instance, if there are 3x as many 2 bedroom units as there are GVs at a given resort, then 2 bedroom units could drop 2 points a night, and GVs could increase 6 points per night.

So there is any number of ways the points can be re-allocated without the actual resort total changing.

 

[DisneyDancin7]

i'm a non-DVC member...I can't seem to find this information/link on the DVC website...is it only viewable to members? because i would like to know how many points each room "costs"

 

[vandy]

i'm a non-DVC member...I can't seem to find this information/link on the DVC website...is it only viewable to members? because i would like to know how many points each room "costs"

You can view the point charts on this boards site, DisBoards under the resorts link at the top of this page, or this link:

http://www.wdwinfo.com/disney-vacation-club/DVCpoints.shtml

You can also view them at this board's sponsor, The Timeshare Store. Click on their banner at the top of this page, then find the tab that says DVC Point Charts.