Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts

[wtpclc]

Mick - There was a little discussion here.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2066946

Basically, DVC can change all the points however they wan as long as the points for teh eyar balance out. There are limitations of ~20% for any given day, with teh exception that high seasons can do more. (Best example is that Easter changes and the weeks before and after are high season, whereas that specific day may not have been in a previosu year).

Yeah, it ook many of us by surprise. Generally, teh evened out weekend adn week nights a bit.

 

[SonicGuy]

I do not want to start a whole big thing here, but when I called my guide this morning about doing a BLT add-on for the free cruise, I told her that I needed to sit down the the charts and figure out what I would need. She told me to keep in mind that the charts change from time to time and that there may even be a "season change" coming soon. She mentioned that early December has become a very popular time and that it may be changing seasons.

We are still new to DVC - has this happened before? If so, does it happen often?

I dont want to buy just enough points for the season we like to travel and have it change seasons all together.

 

[disneynutz]

Disney has recently proved that they don't really care about members after the sale and they will makes changes to the program if it makes them more money.

Many members are now short points due to the 2010 point chart change, we are 30 points short.

 

[Chuck S]

Disney has recently proved that they don't really care about members after the sale and they will makes changes to the program if it makes them more money.

Many members are now short points due to the 2010 point chart change, we are 30 points short.

A reallocation proves nothing of the kind, unless you also think the 1996 OKW reallocation indicated they didn't care about members in 1996?

It does indicate that Disney is being responsible and reallocating to equalize demand. The fact that many members bought "just exactly" enough points is Disney's fault how, exactly?

 

[BWV Dreamin]

A reallocation proves nothing of the kind, unless you also think the 1996 OKW reallocation indicated they didn't care about members in 1996?

It does indicate that Disney is being responsible and reallocating to equalize demand. The fact that many members bought "just exactly" enough points is Disney's fault how, exactly?

We have no real facts on this, only Disney's response...so people can choose to believe that on face value or not. I am skeptical about their statement, it does not explain the REASON, only that they can do it based on those terms.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Disney has recently proved that they don't really care about members after the sale and they will makes changes to the program if it makes them more money.

Many members are now short points due to the 2010 point chart change, we are 30 points short.

On the contrary, I think it is good for members when the points are evened out a bit. The only reason folks are upset is because they have gotten into a habit of touring a specific way (to save points), and that way of touring has CAUSED the NEED to reallocate. It has NOTHING to do with money for DVC. We have been members for 12 years. We have the number of points that works well for us, and we utilize banking and borrowing in the manner it was designed to be used.

I think the only reason people are whining now is because they tried to get by with a minimum buy-in. In fact, if DVC was at fault for any of this, it was when they reduced the buy in price to 150 or, worse yet, 100 points!

 

[BWV Dreamin]

On the contrary, I think it is good for members when the points are evened out a bit. The only reason folks are upset is because they have gotten into a habit of touring a specific way (to save points), and that way of touring has CAUSED the NEED to reallocate. It has NOTHING to do with money for DVC. We have been members for 12 years. We have the number of points that works well for us, and we utilize banking and borrowing in the manner it was designed to be used.

I think the only reason people are whining now is because they tried to get by with a minimum buy-in. In fact, if DVC was at fault for any of this, it was when they reduced the buy in price to 150 or, worse yet, 100 points!

I am not whining, I am really not too affected. The fact is no one knows the real REASON for the change. You can accept Disney's statement at face value, however I am skeptical. Just because they CAN make the change, does not mean they won't BENEFIT from it. Oh, they will. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but they will. Considering Disney's fiancial situation, they need many pots to pull their profits from.

 

[mjfox]

A reallocation proves nothing of the kind, unless you also think the 1996 OKW reallocation indicated they didn't care about members in 1996?

It does indicate that Disney is being responsible and reallocating to equalize demand. The fact that many members bought "just exactly" enough points is Disney's fault how, exactly?

Here, Here... I with you "Chuck S". I'm just happy that I'm not tied up with using the same week number every year as some traditional timeshares are or only having Fri, Sat or Sun as the only check in days! Things could be worse and I not complaining that DVC is just trying to level the playing field so unused days could be usable days again. If there are unused days by points or cash that hurts all of us.

 

[SonicGuy]

I do not want to start a whole big thing here, but when I called my guide this morning about doing a BLT add-on for the free cruise, I told her that I needed to sit down the the charts and figure out what I would need. She told me to keep in mind that the charts change from time to time and that there may even be a "season change" coming soon. She mentioned that early December has become a very popular time and that it may be changing seasons.

We are still new to DVC - has this happened before? If so, does it happen often?

I dont want to buy just enough points for the season we like to travel and have it change seasons all together.

Not sure why my post got moved into this monster - all I really wanted to know is if I can expect the seasons to change often.

 

[TSMIII]

I do not want to start a whole big thing here, but when I called my guide this morning about doing a BLT add-on for the free cruise, I told her that I needed to sit down the the charts and figure out what I would need. She told me to keep in mind that the charts change from time to time and that there may even be a "season change" coming soon. She mentioned that early December has become a very popular time and that it may be changing seasons.
We are still new to DVC - has this happened before? If so, does it happen often?

I dont want to buy just enough points for the season we like to travel and have it change seasons all together.

Others here have mentioned this possibility if DVC identified a demand imbalance with regard to the seasons as they are currently configured.

I wonder too, depending upon how large of a seasonal demand imbalance there was, if the season configurations may at some point differ from resort to resort. Something similar to the way in which VB differs from the WDW resorts.

Imagine if the first two weeks of December remained Adventure season for say AKV, but were moved to Choice or Dream season for VWL due to the higher demand at that time of year. Or if the F&W weeks were moved into a higher point cost season for BWV & BCV only.

I'm not certain DVC would want to "fine tune" the point charts to that degree but it's another possibility should one or more resorts exhibit disproportionate demand within a season relative to the other resorts.

 

[wtpclc]

If there are unused days by points or cash that hurts all of us.

Ding ding! NOt thrilled with the change, but if weekends were ogoing empty, that's bad for us.

SOnice - It hasn't happend in a very long time. WHile ou would nto expect it to happen for along itme, you just never know. I thougth this was only liek teh 2nd time it happend.BTW, it wasn't jsut your post. Teh wnole thread got moved because the topic is the same.

 

[DVC92]

It does indicate that Disney is being responsible and reallocating to equalize demand. The fact that many members bought "just exactly" enough points is Disney's fault how, exactly?

You are stating a conclusion without any factual support. That conclusion may/may not be true. The only legal reason DVC can put forth is one relating to demand. IMHO, further reallocations are necessary to truly balance demand. We'll see what happens next year.

Disney did help contribute to this problem by lowering minimum point purchases allowing buyers to acquire just enough points for S-F stays. If the 230 minimum had been retained, members might not feel the necessity to only stay weekdays. I know I certainly don't.

 

[MELSMICE]

I apologize if this has been discussed on here and I missed it. I've been a DVC owner for 7 years. One important question I had when I was considering this was wether the point values for a nights stay would change. I knew what the points currently were but I was concerned about what they would be 10 to 20 years down the road. I remember being told the "seasons" could change within the 5 point tiers, but if a stay was 12 points per night in the lowest season it would always be 12 points in that low season. I looked at the 2009 and 2010 charts and see that the point charts have changed. For example in 2009, from May 1 to 31 a studio at BCV is 13 points. During that same time in 2010 it is 15 points. I guess I'm just chacking to see if any of you were told the same thing at purchase or wether I just heard one thing and took it to mean something else.

DH & I recall being told the same thing.

 

[FIVEFANS]

We were also told points would never change...... and after freaking out from this thread I looked at all the points. In general the week totals are the same.......... and in the end, I understand, that if there is not change then things can go downhill..... I would rather them not wait till a potential problem gets worse.

In the end, we will all be having dole whips in the next year or so........ so smile.

 

[disneynutz]

I am amazed that so many people refuse to believe that money is the motive for every change Disney makes. That isn't a bad thing for business but when the changes continue to take away value, eventually people will protest.

Lowering the point requirements for Friday & Saturday wasn't done to be nice to members who want to book weekends, it was done for specific reasons that we can only guess.

Here are some possibilities:
Get members to buy more points? Several DISers have posted that they modified their contracts because of the change.

Increase Florida member stays on Fridays and Saturdays since so many members can't afford to travel.

Get members to change their vacation patterns to better utilize Disney facilities and personal.

Set the stage for the next change.

 

[tjkraz]

I am not whining, I am really not too affected. The fact is no one knows the real REASON for the change. You can accept Disney's statement at face value, however I am skeptical. Just because they CAN make the change, does not mean they won't BENEFIT from it. Oh, they will. Maybe not today or tomorrow, but they will. Considering Disney's fiancial situation, they need many pots to pull their profits from.

It's possible that Disney will benefit...but it's also largely irrelevant, IMO.

Does Disney benefit from our $100 AP discount? Do they benefit from giving us free Internet service? Do they benefit from the Member Mixers? Do they benefit from putting nicer mattresses in the rooms?

Perhaps, but since members also benefit from those changes I don't see the reason to split hairs over it.

In today's economic climate I doubt Disney has a good enough crystal ball to predict that DVC sales will indisputably tilt in their favor after the reallocation. As I've said, DVC may gain some sales from small add-ons but they are also likely to lose sales due to a lowering of DVC's financial benefits (Sun-Thurs stays no longer as good of a value) and the perceived loss of goodwill from some members.

I think the most likely beneficiary would be the parks & resorts division (rather than DVC/DVD) if overall occupancy levels rise at the DVC resorts. Higher occupancy theoretically means more guest spending on food, groceries, souvenirs, etc.

You're welcome to question DVC's motivation. There's enough gray area in discussing the tipping point for the reallocation...especially when we've gone 14 years since the last one. But unless you're accusing them of lying to members, DVC's public statement about the reallocation being to "balance demand" is all the justification they need.

Not sure why my post got moved into this monster - all I really wanted to know is if I can expect the seasons to change often.

Nobody really knows.

It has always been within DVC's right--some of us would say it's their obligation--to adjust for changes in demand patterns. They did it back in 1996 and now for 2010. For years many have been questioning why there had not been a reallocation.

I agree with others who think some of the seasons are still out of whack. This 2010 adjustment could just be a precursor to another adjustment in 2011. DVC is limited to only changing the points 20% for any given day from one year to the next. And in some cases they did adjust the full 20%. Does that mean further adjustments will immediately follow?

DVC could also could wait a few years to completely re-evaluate things.

At this point I think the only safe bet is to count on DVC adjusting every few years. If they do so on a consistent basis, the adjustments should be very minor. It's because they waited so long this time that the modifications were so extreme.

 

[Dean]

I apologize if this has been discussed on here and I missed it. I've been a DVC owner for 7 years. One important question I had when I was considering this was wether the point values for a nights stay would change. I knew what the points currently were but I was concerned about what they would be 10 to 20 years down the road. I remember being told the "seasons" could change within the 5 point tiers, but if a stay was 12 points per night in the lowest season it would always be 12 points in that low season. I looked at the 2009 and 2010 charts and see that the point charts have changed. For example in 2009, from May 1 to 31 a studio at BCV is 13 points. During that same time in 2010 it is 15 points. I guess I'm just chacking to see if any of you were told the same thing at purchase or wether I just heard one thing and took it to mean something else.

If you were told the points for a given night would not change, you were told incorrectly and not consistent with the POS.

Disney has recently proved that they don't really care about members after the sale and they will makes changes to the program if it makes them more money.

Many members are now short points due to the 2010 point chart change, we are 30 points short.

I don't get that at all. The willingness to make changes is a plus to a degree and all changes I've seen are appropriate. One could quibble with the timing of the reallocation in response to new buyers, esp at BLT, but to say these show DVC doesn't care is not supported by the facts or reason.

We have no real facts on this, only Disney's response...so people can choose to believe that on face value or not. I am skeptical about their statement, it does not explain the REASON, only that they can do it based on those terms.

While we don't have current spread sheets, we do have a lot of historical factual information as well as oversight by the state of FL. As I noted a page or two ago, anyone can go look over the books, you just have to do it in person.

Here, Here... I with you "Chuck S". I'm just happy that I'm not tied up with using the same week number every year as some traditional timeshares are or only having Fri, Sat or Sun as the only check in days! Things could be worse and I not complaining that DVC is just trying to level the playing field so unused days could be usable days again. If there are unused days by points or cash that hurts all of us.

LOL!!! I have just arranged two weeks this fall in 1 BR (AKV 7 OKW) using those traditional timeshares you mention (or a version thereof, RCI points) at a cost of about $450 a week including the exchange fee and $95 resort services fee. That's far less than the maint fees would be on the points for those weeks. I was worried that availability would be worse with RCI than II trading in and this appears to be exactly the opposite so far.

Not sure why my post got moved into this monster - all I really wanted to know is if I can expect the seasons to change often.

I'd say about 50/50 or slightly better chance you'll see season changes in about 2-3 years, if it happens, there will likely be some fine tuning along the lines of this reallocation as well.

 

[Dean]

I am amazed that so many people refuse to believe that money is the motive for every change Disney makes. That isn't a bad thing for business but when the changes continue to take away value, eventually people will protest.

Lowering the point requirements for Friday & Saturday wasn't done to be nice to members who want to book weekends, it was done for specific reasons that we can only guess.

Here are some possibilities:
Get members to buy more points? Several DISers have posted that they modified their contracts because of the change.

Increase Florida member stays on Fridays and Saturdays since so many members can't afford to travel.

Get members to change their vacation patterns to better utilize Disney facilities and personal.

Set the stage for the next change.

LOL, it's been interesting to see long term koolade drinkers turn on Disney and DVC so quickly. And in the long run it really doesn't matter why they did it.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

I'd say about 50/50 or slightly better chance you'll see season changes in about 2-3 years, if it happens, there will likely be some fine tuning along the lines of this reallocation as well.

I agree that a change for the dates in some Season may be likely in the future and may be part of the reason for the 2010 reallocation.

Because DVC could not change the points required for any one night by more than 20%, some weekday studios at OKW (formerly, 8 points per night) could not increase or decrease by more than 1 point in any reallocation. Nor can they go from 9 to anything higher than 10 in the next reallocation. As a result, we may see more than one change in the near future in order for the dates in some Seasons to be modified. -- Suzanne

 

[bcrook]

This is really a great discussion based on an exciting controversial issue. How about this one...

In another post: Off-Season What is it Really? Dean says: "There are certain room types you should not count on though (sometimes even if you own at that resort), these include the 2 Q dedicated 2 BR at BCV, any GV, standard view at BWV and concierge at AKV."

If all GV are booked at the 7 month window - there should be no problem with balancing demand. With this pattern, if one GV fills up, people move to the next choice. The points don't much matter - the amount dedicated to GV are always used. That being said, you know the next question...

Why change the point allocation? Just to mess with people? What's weird is that some resorts went up dramatically on the WEEKENDS and others went down on the weekend - but they are all booked all the time???

This would make total sense if GV were heavily booked at SSR (the GV there went up a whopping 18 points in Magic season for F/S SSR must be popular on weekends), and OKW GV must be empty because they went DOWN 24 points on F/S.

Those are really large fluctuations for units that are booked solid. Seems random to me.