Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts

[Chuck S]

I'd say it's possible that RCI asked--or DVC offered--to reallocate in order to make for a fundamentally sound start to the RCI relationship.

But RCI could not dictate how the points would be structured. Only historical booking trends can make that determination.

And I think it is highly unlikely that the re-allocation had anything to do with RCI, as RCI was the original trading partner for DVC, and the charts were fine with them, then.

 

[tjkraz]

And I think it is highly unlikely that the re-allocation had anything to do with RCI, as RCI was the original trading partner for DVC, and the charts were fine with them, then.

I agree, Chuck, I don't really think the two had anything to do with one another. But even if they did on some level, RCI couldn't have made demands or set terms specific to the way points were reallocated.

 

[Dean]

I realize this is just rehashing the same old scenario, by my Easter break vacation in a 2BR at OKW from S-F will increase by 40 points. That's more than a few points.

It is my suspicion that the S-F crowd, of which I've been one, is a relative minority. Thus most members won't be affected that much. Some will be and IMO, that is OK.

I don't follow your point here (bolded). 100% of the people could be affected--50% up and 50% down. That would not speak to whether or not the change was needed--to me it would mean that the redistribution worked out favorable for some and not favorable for others.

If you read further you'll realize that I qualified essentially unaffected as being a few points up or down, say under 10% as an arbitrary value (yes I'd consider this a few points). It was just another way of saying that the more people doing S-F, the more the change was needed.

 

[bcrook]

OK, After 150 pages, I know I am supposed to be thankful to DVC for reallocation. I should be happy that I can't take as many trips to WDW so I can save myself some money on flights and gasoline. I am also very happy that I can give up some of my time on site so the locals (or other weekend travelers) can have cheaper weekends. I get that. I really do.

I still just can't believe that there is that much more demand for weekdays, or so much so that people can't get a week stay. I find it hard to believe that weekdays are booked and block 7 day trips or more. I understand that maybe certain locations or certain times are unavailable, but I just don't buy that this is a common occurrence. How often has somebody tried to book a week and not be able to get a nice room at Saratoga?

I went through every week in March and April (Magic Season and Premier) and all within 2 months. I tried to book a room through the Disney World site for cash. I could book an 8 night stay for any week at every resort except Beach Club. two-bedrooms were not as common, but 1 bedrooms were available always. I could get a studio everywhere.

If these rooms are available right now for cash, how are they are not available for points (or weren't available for points)? I just don't get it.

I could book anything I want to right now. Of course I wouldn't be able to book a BLT MK view (if it was ready). And I probably can't get a Savannah view at AK. Beach Club is tough, but there is plenty of inventory left everywhere else.

It shouldn't matter what demand looks like, if rooms are always available reallocation is not necessary - unless the sole reason is to find the best formula to eat up the most points per person. This is definitely possible, and probably just as important. That is significantly different than saying that it is based on effort to even out demand.

I have borrowed all of my 2010 points to have a big blowout 4th of July funfest this summer with my family and another family. I got to use my points at their highest value. We are looking forward to Kidani and the Beach Club. I don't have to worry about keeping or selling for another year. I was planning on adding on, but that will never happen now, and my friends won't be taking any tours.

All that being said, I do envy Maria and her family getting to spend the last week or more at Disney. I enjoy the magic, but DVC has tarnished the experience. It is unfortunate, and think there will be many more thousands of people shocked when they get their new DVC planners.

 

[Dean]

OK, After 150 pages, I know I am supposed to be thankful to DVC for reallocation. I should be happy that I can't take as many trips to WDW so I can save myself some money on flights and gasoline. I am also very happy that I can give up some of my time on site so the locals (or other weekend travelers) can have cheaper weekends. I get that. I really do.

I still just can't believe that there is that much more demand for weekdays, or so much so that people can't get a week stay. I find it hard to believe that weekdays are booked and block 7 day trips or more. I understand that maybe certain locations or certain times are unavailable, but I just don't buy that this is a common occurrence. How often has somebody tried to book a week and not be able to get a nice room at Saratoga?

I went through every week in March and April (Magic Season and Premier) and all within 2 months. I tried to book a room through the Disney World site for cash. I could book an 8 night stay for any week at every resort except Beach Club. two-bedrooms were not as common, but 1 bedrooms were available always. I could get a studio everywhere.

If these rooms are available right now for cash, how are they are not available for points (or weren't available for points)? I just don't get it.

I could book anything I want to right now. Of course I wouldn't be able to book a BLT MK view (if it was ready). And I probably can't get a Savannah view at AK. Beach Club is tough, but there is plenty of inventory left everywhere else.

It shouldn't matter what demand looks like, if rooms are always available reallocation is not necessary - unless the sole reason is to find the best formula to eat up the most points per person. This is definitely possible, and probably just as important. That is significantly different than saying that it is based on effort to even out demand.

I have borrowed all of my 2010 points to have a big blowout 4th of July funfest this summer with my family and another family. I got to use my points at their highest value. We are looking forward to Kidani and the Beach Club. I don't have to worry about keeping or selling for another year. I was planning on adding on, but that will never happen now, and my friends won't be taking any tours.

All that being said, I do envy Maria and her family getting to spend the last week or more at Disney. I enjoy the magic, but DVC has tarnished the experience. It is unfortunate, and think there will be many more thousands of people shocked when they get their new DVC planners.

Cash inventory comes from several locations but much of it is exchange Inventory reserved early in the process and developer owned inventory. Given we've seen hundreds of threads where the subject is cash was available but not points, I don't think cash inventory gives us any insight as to how the units are available or when. Add to that the idea that SSR has been the most available resort and your example totally breaks down as an argument against reallocation. If you don't believe weekends were more available than weekdays, there is no common ground to discuss this issue.

For sold out resorts there cannot be openings throughout the year without an even distribution of usage both for different seasons and different times of the week. There is no real buffer to absorb the extra points. And that brings up another issue we've touched on somewhat. IF the demand varies enough for different times of the year, expect a reallocation of seasons as well, esp Dec and early Jan.

 

[bcrook]

I partly understand cash issues, but if you combine it with DIS availability boards, and other comments from posters - only certain resorts at certain times have issues with being crowded. It seems HHI island should be adjusted according to its seasonal needs and should not be lumped in with OKW, or vice versa.

If you don't believe weekends were more available than weekdays, there is no common ground to discuss this issue.

Wow - it is a consensus now that this is all legit and above board? Everybody's fine, and there need be no more grappling with the issue?

For sold out resorts there cannot be openings throughout the year without an even distribution of usage both for different seasons and different times of the week. There is no real buffer to absorb the extra points. And that brings up another issue we've touched on somewhat. IF the demand varies enough for different times of the year, expect a reallocation of seasons as well, esp Dec and early Jan.

I think this would have been the first step. It makes total sense. It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds. Management still needs to be held to flame for the shady and deceptive manner they have distributed this information. It is much too early to give in and say everything is fine.

 

[codina818]

There was a post on another board that mentions that the reservations for BLT for S=View are now about the same as for the other resorts, at least for the weekday nights.

There thinking was that the points changes were made to make BLT the same or cheaper because BLT weren't selling so good.

I don't think I can post it here but they got tables and everything which shows that during weekdays, the new point changes show BWV-Pref/BW, VWL, BCV and AKV- Savanah view are now about the same as BLT s=viiw.

Seems like a good argument, was that posted at all?

Another question, how can they change the BLT charts and say that is from increased demand when they didn't have any reservations at that time? How could they know demand at a resort, BLT, where no reservations had been made? Ain't that illegal?

Sorry if this was brought up before, but this thread is so long, I ain't got the time to look thought the whole darn thing.

 

[tjkraz]

OK, After 150 pages, I know I am supposed to be thankful to DVC for reallocation. I should be happy that I can't take as many trips to WDW so I can save myself some money on flights and gasoline. I am also very happy that I can give up some of my time on site so the locals (or other weekend travelers) can have cheaper weekends. I get that. I really do.

I don't recall anyone saying you should be thankful for or happy about the reallocation, but it is what it is. Like it or dislike it, we're all stuck trying to best deal with it.

I still just can't believe that there is that much more demand for weekdays, or so much so that people can't get a week stay. I find it hard to believe that weekdays are booked and block 7 day trips or more. I understand that maybe certain locations or certain times are unavailable, but I just don't buy that this is a common occurrence. How often has somebody tried to book a week and not be able to get a nice room at Saratoga?

You're looking at it from a very black and white approach--either available or unavailable. Consider the gray area.

If a Sun - Thurs period in early-December is reaching 100% occupancy 10 1/2 months out while the Fri - Sat does not reach 100% occupancy until 2 months out, the points are out of balance. Both periods are still sold out, but the weighted point charts did not serve their intended purpose of balancing the demand.

Similarly if a slower Sun - Thurs period only reaches 80% occupancy while the bookend Fri - Sat nights are at 60%, the points are out of balance.

And there are certainly periods where weekdays get to full occupancy while the weekends still have vacancies.

I an understand disappointment over these changes. Believe me, I share it myself. But from what I have personally witnessed at the DVC resorts and my own experiences booking, the weekends were obviously out of whack. And the only remedy available to DVC (and its members) is to reallocate.

DVC already has more members wanting to use points for weekday stays than there actually are nights available. And without a reallocation, they would only continue to attract more weekday vacationers. DVC can't just keep falling back on "first come, first served" and leave a greater and greater percentage of owners unable to book the dates and accommodation they desire.

 

[tjkraz]

There was a post on another board that mentions that the reservations for BLT for S=View are now about the same as for the other resorts, at least for the weekday nights.

There thinking was that the points changes were made to make BLT the same or cheaper because BLT weren't selling so good.

BLT will sell out all in due time--reallocation or no reallocation. I really don't see some perceived uptick in sales as being motivation to make such drastic changes to the program.

Another question, how can they change the BLT charts and say that is from increased demand when they didn't have any reservations at that time? How could they know demand at a resort, BLT, where no reservations had been made? Ain't that illegal?

That argument has been raised and I agree it's the...shadiest...part of these changes. I suspect DVC would argue that similar trends are witnessed at each of their properties and that thee changes are still justified. But it certainly seems like there is reason to question the move.

 

[MELSMICE]

It is my suspicion that the S-F crowd, of which I've been one, is a relative minority. Thus most members won't be affected that much. Some will be and IMO, that is OK.

I respectfully disagree with this and here is why............

We are a family that spends almost every day at the resort pools. We head to dinner & the parks in the evenings. S-TH the pools are very crowded. On Fridays there are about 1/2 to 1/3 of the guests there. Many Fridays we have spent the day at are our DVC resort (OKW) & then transfered to a cash resort later in the day, spending the day at the DVC pool. There is a definite difference in the # of guests.

Now this could be for different reasons - people leaving to return home, people getting one last day in the parks before returning home on a Saturday, or anything else, but there is a noticeable difference in the # of guests at the resort on Friday afternoons.

 

[Dean]

I think this would have been the first step. It makes total sense. It will be interesting to see how this all unfolds. Management still needs to be held to flame for the shady and deceptive manner they have distributed this information. It is much too early to give in and say everything is fine.

While it wasn't with fanfare, it certainly wasn't shady and deceptive in distribution. They did have the hiccup where it was posted too early and removed, likely while they were still checking or approving it. It was placed on the website with an announcement and will be mailed to members.

Another question, how can they change the BLT charts and say that is from increased demand when they didn't have any reservations at that time? How could they know demand at a resort, BLT, where no reservations had been made? Ain't that illegal?

I'm sure they are referring to the overall demand in the system, not BLT. There is a need for consistency between resorts in any issue such as this.

 

[MiaSRN62]

melsmice : We are a family that spends almost every day at the resort pools. We head to dinner & the parks in the evenings. S-TH the pools are very crowded. On Fridays there are about 1/2 to 1/3 of the guests there. Many Fridays we have spent the day at are our DVC resort (OKW) & then transfered to a cash resort later in the day, spending the day at the DVC pool. There is a definite difference in the # of guests.

And my observations have always been that it's been busier on the weekends. Dh and I used to think maybe it was more local Members booking stays for a weekend or extended weekend. Just checked out of SSR on Feb 6. When we checked in on Wed, barely anyone in the lobby. But on Friday, the lobby was packed with guests entering and checking in.

 

[jakenjess]

It is my suspicion that the S-F crowd, of which I've been one, is a relative minority. Thus most members won't be affected that much. Some will be and IMO, that is OK.

Dean, I've been following your reasonings throughout the thread and agree (though I'm not happy with the reallocation ) but I don't understand this. If most members won't be affected much, why do the reallocation at all? The S-F crowd couldn't be throwing the balance off that much if the majority aren't affected, or am I missing something here? If most aren't affected, that should mean that most are already booking weekend nights; if you've been staying S-F you're most definitely going to be affected, and not just by a few points.

 

[MELSMICE]

And my observations have always been that it's been busier on the weekends. Dh and I used to think maybe it was more local Members booking stays for a weekend or extended weekend. Just checked out of SSR on Feb 6. When we checked in on Wed, barely anyone in the lobby. But on Friday, the lobby was packed with guests entering and checking in.

I guess it could also be the time of year we are each staying. The times that I have noticed it the most are at peak times, when point values are higher, especially for weekends.

Also, I would think that a Wednesday would be a less busy check-in day to begin with, although I could be wrong, as everyone vacations different.

These were just my observations. We've also noticed many people sitting at the pools with their Welcome Packets waiting for their rooms to be ready on a Sunday afternoon - although that is not surprising.

 

[tjkraz]

I respectfully disagree with this and here is why............

We are a family that spends almost every day at the resort pools. We head to dinner & the parks in the evenings. S-TH the pools are very crowded. On Fridays there are about 1/2 to 1/3 of the guests there. Many Fridays we have spent the day at are our DVC resort (OKW) & then transfered to a cash resort later in the day, spending the day at the DVC pool. There is a definite difference in the # of guests.

Now this could be for different reasons - people leaving to return home, people getting one last day in the parks before returning home on a Saturday, or anything else, but there is a noticeable difference in the # of guests at the resort on Friday afternoons.

Generally speaking you could lump members' travel patterns into three buckets:

1. Those who vacation exclusively Sun - Thurs
2. Those who vacation exclusively Fri - Sat
3. Those whose vacations include both weekdays and weekends

When Dean speaks of the "S - F crowd", I believe he is referring to group #1 above--those who use their points ONLY for Sunday to Thursday nights.

I would agree with your assessment that the resorts are at much greater occupancy on the weekdays. But that occupancy is driven by groups 1 AND 3 above. And it's certainly possible that the exclusive Sun - Thurs vacationers are a minority...yet are still throwing the system out of balance.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I respectfully disagree with this and here is why............

We are a family that spends almost every day at the resort pools. We head to dinner & the parks in the evenings. S-TH the pools are very crowded. On Fridays there are about 1/2 to 1/3 of the guests there. Many Fridays we have spent the day at are our DVC resort (OKW) & then transfered to a cash resort later in the day, spending the day at the DVC pool. There is a definite difference in the # of guests.

Now this could be for different reasons - people leaving to return home, people getting one last day in the parks before returning home on a Saturday, or anything else, but there is a noticeable difference in the # of guests at the resort on Friday afternoons.

I think you are right about the "crowd" within DVC resorts on the weekends, but I think the REASON is that people learned to "work the system" with the five lower point days...saving points by not staying the weekends. I think you just nailed the real reason this allocation was necessary.

None of us has the "real" new charts in hand yet, and I'm reserving judgement until we do. AS far as I can tell, it will only require me to make minor adjustments to use the same number of points, and in most cases, I actually will be using LESS points now over the old charts.

 

[Dean]

Dean, I've been following your reasonings throughout the thread and agree (though I'm not happy with the reallocation ) but I don't understand this. If most members won't be affected much, why do the reallocation at all? The S-F crowd couldn't be throwing the balance off that much if the majority aren't affected, or am I missing something here? If most aren't affected, that should mean that most are already booking weekend nights; if you've been staying S-F you're most definitely going to be affected, and not just by a few points.

I think I explained the thinking a few pages back. Basically it doesn't take a large percentage to throw the system out of balance. For sake of discussion assume you have a 95% usual occupancy and 85% of people do 7 days which start and/or end on a weekend. Then 10% of people do S-F either alone or as part of a 12 day stay. That leaves you a discrepancy of 10% from weekdays to weekends. Obviously it's far more complicated than that with many variations and nuances but this is essentially the end point of the thinking. As I and a few others have stated, it comes down to more than just the end point occupancy. It also is important to look at HOW and WHEN you got there. Cash reservations should be looked at differently than points and times that book up 3 months out should be looked at differently than those booked at 11 months or even 7 months. Even then you have to look at how/who. Were those rooms booked up by S-F guests and back filled by default from those who would have preferred weekdays also but they weren't available and may have complained about this pattern of availability. DVC will also look at HOW guests visit. If they stay S-F on points then weekends on cash (DVC or otherwise), this becomes important info as well.

As I've also said, I believe DVC needs some consistency. By that I mean that if Magic and Dream seasons were not a problem, but the rest of the times were, I believe they would change everything to keep the ratio's in the same ballpark. Same from one resort to another. If VWL were not an issue but SSR, OKW & BWV were, then I believe they would change all or none regardless.

I guess it could also be the time of year we are each staying. The times that I have noticed it the most are at peak times, when point values are higher, especially for weekends.

Also, I would think that a Wednesday would be a less busy check-in day to begin with, although I could be wrong, as everyone vacations different.

These were just my observations. We've also noticed many people sitting at the pools with their Welcome Packets waiting for their rooms to be ready on a Sunday afternoon - although that is not surprising.

Far too anecdotal to draw conclusions from plus there's no way to tell how that time is compared to others and whether these are points or cash guests, which makes a big difference. See my explanation above as to my thinking.

 

[Disneyhappy]

I don't understand why people cannot understand that there WAS a need to reallocate whether you like it or not. It was long overdue.

No where in my post did it state I had an issue with the point reallocation. I didn't understand the logic that was used in the theory and was only questioning it. Smile! Life is too short!

 

[Mick West]

I apologize if this has been discussed on here and I missed it. I've been a DVC owner for 7 years. One important question I had when I was considering this was wether the point values for a nights stay would change. I knew what the points currently were but I was concerned about what they would be 10 to 20 years down the road. I remember being told the "seasons" could change within the 5 point tiers, but if a stay was 12 points per night in the lowest season it would always be 12 points in that low season. I looked at the 2009 and 2010 charts and see that the point charts have changed. For example in 2009, from May 1 to 31 a studio at BCV is 13 points. During that same time in 2010 it is 15 points. I guess I'm just chacking to see if any of you were told the same thing at purchase or wether I just heard one thing and took it to mean something else.

 

[LisaS]

The discussion is going on here: http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2066946 The thread is currently up to 150 pages and 2238 posts! Get a cup of coffee and settle in for a long read.