Disney Vacation Club adjusts 2010 Vacation Points charts

[BWV Dreamin]

maybe I'm missing something...but for us after comparing the 2009 and 2010 point charts...looking at different vacations we have taken or may take......our points needed for various trips vary a few points for the week up or down.... in the some cases..our F & W trip which is usually 2 weeknights & 2 weekend dates....has gone down more than a few points....so I don't understand how the reallocation made it more expensive for members as a whole to vacation......since everyones vacation habits are different... I also have no need to add on points and don't see any decrease in my DVC value......I do see looking at the point charts that members using their points for a weeknight only stay will have to use more points...but looking at 7 night stays the differences seem to be up or down a few points

That is your particular situation....there have by far been more posters that have stated the negative impact the reallocation has had on their vacation habits, as have positive.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

This part of your statement is mathematically impossible. Since the total number of points in a resort cannot change, for every increase there was an offsetting decrease. Some members will get the same value they always did. Some will get a lower value. Some will get a better value. It all depends on how people use their points.

My comment is not disputing this....it states that the reallocation has made it more expensive for members to vacation with their current vacation habits with the points that they currently own. Again, based on the overwhelming comments, this has been a negative impact on members.

 

[bevis]

For those of you that still don't believe weekends are not as in demand as weekdays, just a little question. Has anyone asked Bell Services staff what particular days are busier with people CHECKING OUT vs. CHECKING IN? I think they would have a better handle on arrival/departure than most.
Again, folks leaving vs. folks coming in, not just how busy overall.
I know this is, of course, anecdotal, as is most of this whole discussion, but the Bell staff will have a great feel for this.
Also, this in particular may have come up before as I know I've seen polls about what days people check in/out, but I dont know if that would be quite as "accurate" for DVC members as a whole as opposed to just those on the DIS boards.

Anyone reading that is there now?

 

[tjkraz]

My comment is not disputing this....it states that the reallocation has made it more expensive for members to vacation with their current vacation habits with the points that they currently own. Again, based on the overwhelming comments, this has been a negative impact on members.

In reality there probably are more individuals who are upset by the change than those who are happy with it. If so, that fact is what defines the need for the reallocation. Under the 2009 charts approximately 55% of a week's points were spread over the Sun - Thurs timeframe. If members are collectively attempting to use more than 55% of their points for Sun - Thurs, then that is exactly why this change was needed.

As for the win/lose/draw breakout among members, we really have no way of quantifying that. Whether Fri / Sat occupancy is 50% or 75% or 95%, every person who uses points for those weekend nights will benefit from the reallocation.

If every single DVC point is used in 2009 and every single DVC point is used in 2010, the net result is the same. Individual members will pay more or less depending upon their vacation habits, but for every loser there MUST BE a winner.

Sure the comments posted to this thread have been mostly negative...as is the case with most discussions of this ilk. There is little motivation for people to post "I'm happy with this change" comments....instead we just get page-after-page of "I'm mad as h*ll at this change" comments.

It's no different than discussing room cleanliness, quality of bus service, member perks, changes to member policies, etc. The people who feel they have been wronged drive the discussion while those with a different viewpoint typically sit on the sidelines.

 

[Anal Annie]

maybe I'm missing something...but for us after comparing the 2009 and 2010 point charts...looking at different vacations we have taken or may take......our points needed for various trips vary a few points for the week up or down.... in the some cases..our F & W trip which is usually 2 weeknights & 2 weekend dates....has gone down more than a few points....so I don't understand how the reallocation made it more expensive for members as a whole to vacation......since everyones vacation habits are different... I also have no need to add on points and don't see any decrease in my DVC value......I do see looking at the point charts that members using their points for a weeknight only stay will have to use more points...but looking at 7 night stays the differences seem to be up or down a few points

You are getting off lucky. It is pretty much a negative impact on any trip that is less than 7 nights. Personally, the impact it will have on us is that after we plan the rest of the 3 trips that we WERE going to plan instead of having 18 points left to bank we will be 3 points SHORT. One trip goes up by 10 points for 5 nights and the other goes up by 11 points for 6 nights. And the same trip we've already planned for this summer would cost us 6 more points in 2010. In comparison, we're getting off easy. There are some people who for years & years USED to be able to vacation for a full week in a given size unit during a given season for 350 points and now they need 352 points. So they're now 2 points short!! That's awful because they thought they needed 350 points so that's what they bought. NOW they either need to shave a night off their trip, downsize a unit OR shell out more money for a 25 point add-on to fulfill this 2 point shortage. How would you feel if you've been taking the same vacation for 10 years and now all of a sudden you've got this lousy 2 point shortage to deal with? Not happy I'm pretty sure. I'm glad that we've only been members for a couple of years and have not established this set vacation pattern - it's hard enough to swallow being new.

 

[tjkraz]

You are getting off lucky. It is pretty much a negative impact on any trip that is less than 7 nights.

That's not a very accurate generalization.

A trip of Monday - Saturday (6 nights) is cheaper under the new system.

A trip of Thursday - Sunday (4 nights) is cheaper.

A trip of Wednesday - Monday (6 nights) is cheaper.

Better to say that a trip of less than 7 nights with fewer than 2 weekend nights is now more expensive.

There are some people who for years & years USED to be able to vacation for a full week in a given size unit during a given season for 350 points and now they need 352 points. So they're now 2 points short!! That's awful because they thought they needed 350 points so that's what they bought. NOW they either need to shave a night off their trip, downsize a unit OR shell out more money for a 25 point add-on to fulfill this 2 point shortage.

Or they could just borrow the 2 points every year and it won't catch up with them until the final year of ownership (assuming they even keep the contract for another 30-50 years.)

 

[palhockeymomof2]

That is your particular situation....there have by far been more posters that have stated the negative impact the reallocation has had on their vacation habits, as have positive.

yes your right I was referring to our particular situation...as most posters on this thread have done..... I rechecked the point requirements for our trips after reading your post stating that "the reallocation made it more expensive for members has a whole to vacation".......I thought I had looked at the new charts wrong when figuring out points needed for our trips.....everyone vacations differently...so the reallocation will affect everyone in a different manner....I totally understand the frustration of those who have been negatively affected.....

 

[palhockeymomof2]

You are getting off lucky. It is pretty much a negative impact on any trip that is less than 7 nights. Personally, the impact it will have on us is that after we plan the rest of the 3 trips that we WERE going to plan instead of having 18 points left to bank we will be 3 points SHORT. One trip goes up by 10 points for 5 nights and the other goes up by 11 points for 6 nights. And the same trip we've already planned for this summer would cost us 6 more points in 2010. In comparison, we're getting off easy. There are some people who for years & years USED to be able to vacation for a full week in a given size unit during a given season for 350 points and now they need 352 points. So they're now 2 points short!! That's awful because they thought they needed 350 points so that's what they bought. NOW they either need to shave a night off their trip, downsize a unit OR shell out more money for a 25 point add-on to fulfill this 2 point shortage. How would you feel if you've been taking the same vacation for 10 years and now all of a sudden you've got this lousy 2 point shortage to deal with? Not happy I'm pretty sure. I'm glad that we've only been members for a couple of years and have not established this set vacation pattern - it's hard enough to swallow being new.

actually the 2 points short situation your referring to is our situation for our
August trip in a 2br villa....honestly it does not bother me...we'll borrow the 2 points...we've been members for 8 years now..sometime borrowing, sometimes banking points.....so for me borrowing is not a big deal.....but I do understand that everyone is different and it may not be what someone else would like to do

 

[bub]

You are getting off lucky. It is pretty much a negative impact on any trip that is less than 7 nights. Personally, the impact it will have on us is that after we plan the rest of the 3 trips that we WERE going to plan instead of having 18 points left to bank we will be 3 points SHORT. One trip goes up by 10 points for 5 nights and the other goes up by 11 points for 6 nights. And the same trip we've already planned for this summer would cost us 6 more points in 2010. In comparison, we're getting off easy. There are some people who for years & years USED to be able to vacation for a full week in a given size unit during a given season for 350 points and now they need 352 points. So they're now 2 points short!! That's awful because they thought they needed 350 points so that's what they bought. NOW they either need to shave a night off their trip, downsize a unit OR shell out more money for a 25 point add-on to fulfill this 2 point shortage. How would you feel if you've been taking the same vacation for 10 years and now all of a sudden you've got this lousy 2 point shortage to deal with? Not happy I'm pretty sure. I'm glad that we've only been members for a couple of years and have not established this set vacation pattern - it's hard enough to swallow being new.

I fall into the group that tends to vacation at the same time each year, for about the same amount of time. Jobs and school schedules don't allow us to be too flexible. I also fall into the group whose usual week has gone up in points, so even though we have stayed one or two weekend nights on our past several trips, with these changes we will now need to cut back on the number of days we stay. So, not a happy camper, and even less happy to have to learn of this change on these boards, since I never received an email (though I used to).

A few in this discussion seem to indicate that those of us who are disappointed in the change are wrong, since Disney had the right to do this, and we should have anticipated it. Maybe so, but as no changes were made in the 13 years that I have been an owner, I have gotten used to the current point schedules.

Maybe it's true that I should have purchased a week-based timeshare, but I bought Disney because it is Disney and I want to stay on property...I have no interest in any other timeshare. It's true that I don't have lots of points...we bought in as a family group and share some of the points. Up until now that has not been a problem (even with some like us staying on weekends). Now most of us will be a few points short. Adding on is not an option...with two kids approaching college age, vacations are important, but I do like to live within my means.

So in the end, I am part of the group that will stay fewer days and make fewer trips. Like almost everything else financial in my life days, the value of my Disney points has gone down. (Admittedly, this is just my situation.)

Thanks to Brogan for presenting the point of view of many of us on these boards to the CM from Disney. And, even though I am waiting to see how this benefits me, thanks to tjkraz and Dean for trying to make us see Disney's side of the change.

One more thing...while it's great to have these boards to share ideas and opinions, as I keep reading through this 145 page thread, I can't help but feel that limiting discussion of this change (which is major to some) to one thread feels as though we're all stuck in a little soundproof room together, when some of us just want to scream. It seems to minimize the impact of the change on many members' vacations. (And the moderators are saying, that screaming thing is exactly why we have put you all together!)

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

A few in this discussion seem to indicate that those of us who are disappointed in the change are wrong, since Disney had the right to do this, and we should have anticipated it. Maybe so, but as no changes were made in the 13 years that I have been an owner, I have gotten used to the current point schedules.

I don't know if anyone is saying that anyone is wrong for being upset about the change. Most of the conflicts are about the right to reeallocate, the need to reallocate, the balance of the reallocation, etc.

 

[MiaSRN62]

Originally Posted by palhockeymomof2
maybe I'm missing something...but for us after comparing the 2009 and 2010 point charts...looking at different vacations we have taken or may take......our points needed for various trips vary a few points for the week up or down.... in the some cases..our F & W trip which is usually 2 weeknights & 2 weekend dates....has gone down more than a few points....so I don't understand how the reallocation made it more expensive for members as a whole to vacation......since everyones vacation habits are different... I also have no need to add on points and don't see any decrease in my DVC value......I do see looking at the point charts that members using their points for a weeknight only stay will have to use more points...but looking at 7 night stays the differences seem to be up or down a few points

That is your particular situation....there have by far been more posters that have stated the negative impact the reallocation has had on their vacation habits, as have positive.

Thank you BWV Dreamin and Anal Annie....because I do think palhockeymomof2 is missing something. My trips went up 6 points per night for our usual stays of Sun-Thurs. That's 30 points short every single year for us.

Anyone reading that is there now?
Today 10:48 AM

beavis....I was at SSR Wed and Thurs....and hung around for several hours on Friday. I can't say I spoke with Bellhop, but I can definitely say there was a HUGE difference in the lobby check-in area on friday. It was much more crowded on Friday than it was on Wed or Thurs. We walked right up to the desk and checked in at 4 pm on Wed---only 3 other parties there. On Friday, there was a line to check-in (around 2-3 pm ). I'd say maybe 12-15 parties checking in when we passed by a few times. Just an observation....nothing scientific. I'm at POP now............

 

[Sabor]

My comment is not disputing this....it states that the reallocation has made it more expensive for members to vacation with their current vacation habits with the points that they currently own. Again, based on the overwhelming comments, this has been a negative impact on members.

You cannot judge the majority of DVC members by those on these boards. As a genreal rule the people that post on this site are more savvy just by the fact they research about their vacations. By doing this they get all the tricks of the trade and either learn how to or are already manipulating thier vactaion habits to the system to maximize their time.

Most people really are not like most of us who patrol these boards.

I would wager that the Sun-Thurs traveler is large enough that something needed to be done to balance the system but are not the huge majority that they think they are.

 

[palhockeymomof2]

Thank you BWV Dreamin and Anal Annie....because I do think palhockeymomof2 is missing something. My trips went up 6 points per night for our usual stays of Sun-Thurs. That's 30 points short every single year for us.


I was responding to BWV dreamin's post a page or so back. that stated .. with the reallocation vacations were more expensive for members as a whole....I thought I had missed something in figuring out the number of points needed for our trips...trying to see how our vacations would be more expensive...since I thought I had calculated that on one trip the points needed would be 2 more and on another a few less.....I had figured out our points correctly......I get that for any trips booked for 5 week nights the points required per trip when up....and I understand your frustration..30 points... ugh

 

[tjkraz]

Thank you BWV Dreamin and Anal Annie....because I do think palhockeymomof2 is missing something. My trips went up 6 points per night for our usual stays of Sun-Thurs. That's 30 points short every single year for us.

What exactly is palhockeymomof2 "missing"? All she said is that she is not impacted by the reallocation for some trips and for others will benefit. As a statement of fact, those comments are no different than others' frequent reminders that they are impacted.

She also specifically said "I do see looking at the point charts that members using their points for a weeknight only stay will have to use more points..."

This statement would also be accurate: "...I don't understand how the reallocation made it more expensive for members as a whole to vacation..." Since the total points cannot change, she is quite correct that the net impact to members is zero. Individual members will undeniably win or lose, but as a whole nothing has changed.

Sounds to me like palhockeymomof2 has a good grasp of the situation.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Thank you BWV Dreamin and Anal Annie....because I do think palhockeymomof2 is missing something. My trips went up 6 points per night for our usual stays of Sun-Thurs. That's 30 points short every single year for us.


I was responding to BWV dreamin's post a page or so back. that stated .. with the reallocation vacations were more expensive for members as a whole....I thought I had missed something in figuring out the number of points needed for our trips...trying to see how our vacations would be more expensive...since I thought I had calculated that on one trip the points needed would be 2 more and on another a few less.....I had figured out our points correctly......I get that for any trips booked for 5 week nights the points required per trip when up....and I understand your frustration..30 points... ugh

For those that book 7 days at a time, preferably, 7 days that include a total weekend, the totals do only change 2,4,pts. etc. per WEEK. However, this timeshare is a flexible timeshare, not based on WEEK vacation stays, and not based on Sun-Sat stays at that. Yes, many vacation that way, many do not, and is why they chose a point based system. So if that flexiblility encompasses 2, 3, 4 day stays, the points re-allocations have now cost you more points to vacation. I understand where your comments were coming from.....

 

[BWV Dreamin]

Forums like this are great resources for data. Yes, one is correct in stating that DISBOARDS does not reflect the general membership as a whole, yet it does reach every segment of membership, and the data here is a valuable tool. You can bet "the man" does read these boards!!

 

[MiaSRN62]

As a genreal rule the people that post on this site are more savvy just by the fact they research about their vacations. By doing this they get all the tricks of the trade and either learn how to or are already manipulating thier vactaion habits to the system to maximize their time.

There are MANY people I know that do whatever they can to maximise their vacations who are not on these boards too. I even know cash paying guests who do this. They don't book weekend nights at POP because it's $10 extra....they book in value season....etc

The whole "manipulating" word bothers me a little in your post sabor. My husband and I became Members in Aug 2000. We purchased as many points as we felt we needed to do a Sun-Thurs stay. We explained to our guide, that we had an offsite timeshare and HAD to stay weekend to weekend there. So we had no use for staying weekends with DVC. So I don't feel we "manipulated" anything. We knew we wanted and neeed Sun thru Thurs so that is what we purchased and that is what we have used. No manipulation there. I will say, now with this reallocation, dvc will force us to do some manipulating. So beginning in 2010, yes...we will be manipulating to maximise our vacation (i.e., booking smaller units and switching over to larger ones during the weeknights we stay). But for the past 9 years, we have not done this. We vacationed as we had planned from the very beginning. But starting 2010, we will have to get a little more crafy.....

 

[MiaSRN62]

BWV Dreamin : and is why they chose a point based system. So if that flexiblility

This is it in a nutshell. We chose DVC for #1) ability to stay onsite/perks #2) flexibility !

 

[palhockeymomof2]

Thank you BWV Dreamin and Anal Annie....because I do think palhockeymomof2 is missing something. My trips went up 6 points per night for our usual stays of Sun-Thurs. That's 30 points short every single year for us.



beavis....I was at SSR Wed and Thurs....and hung around for several hours on Friday. I can't say I spoke with Bellhop, but I can definitely say there was a HUGE difference in the lobby check-in area on friday. It was much more crowded on Friday than it was on Wed or Thurs. We walked right up to the desk and checked in at 4 pm on Wed---only 3 other parties there. On Friday, there was a line to check-in (around 2-3 pm ). I'd say maybe 12-15 parties checking in when we passed by a few times. Just an observation....nothing scientific. I'm at POP now............

What exactly is palhockeymomof2 "missing"? All she said is that she is not impacted by the reallocation for some trips and for others will benefit. As a statement of fact, those comments are no different than others' frequent reminders that they are impacted.

She also specifically said "I do see looking at the point charts that members using their points for a weeknight only stay will have to use more points..."

This statement would also be accurate: "...I don't understand how the reallocation made it more expensive for members as a whole to vacation..." Since the total points cannot change, she is quite correct that the net impact to members is zero. Individual members will undeniably win or lose, but as a whole nothing has changed.

Sounds to me like palhockeymomof2 has a good grasp of the situation.

Thanks tjkraz,,,,I thought I understood the system & situation....had to double check my calculations though

 

[logan115]

Please forgive me for not going thru all 146 pages of posts (I'm guessing it's embedded somewhere in this thread but I gave up after a while ), but could someone please post the link that has the 2010 point charts ?

Thanks,

Chris