Disney took away this man's fairy tale ending

[TheGecko]

Here is the other trick I have seen used recently when manipulating the H1B system. Any job where foreigners are brought in, first needs to have an active posting for American workers. Instead of posting a position or job title, the Company will put out "Interest Postings" with overly broad/generalized job descriptions where no one either fits the qualifications on understands what job they are applying.

Once no one/few have applied to the interest posting since they can't figure out what the job entails, they will go overseas with "legal" justification.

 

[yaya74]

They have available specialized workers--at Disney they were already on the payroll-but they still use the H1B program to bring in lower-wage foreign workers. (They are generally lower-wage, because they are often younger, entry-level workers, so there is an age discrimination element to this too.) Using the laid-off workers to then train the replacements is another odious aspect of this.

I don't want to argue but I know for a fact that H1-B workers are not always young and inexperienced.. On the contrary, H1-B workers are often experienced foreigners who want to get a piece of the American pie/dream so they are willing to get lower pay and work extra hours in the hope that they will get a green card sponsorship in a couple years from the employer and bring their family over for a better life.

 

[disneydad78]

interesting comments

 

[PBB]

Last night on Megyn Kelley's show on Fox News Channel, she was interviewing Florida Senator and Presidential Candidate Marco Rubio. During the interview, she brought the HIB Visa and Disney. Senator Rubio stated that Disney outsourced the IT department to a 3rd party consulting firm(vendor)'and it was this consulting firm who was using the loophole. This appears to clash with the statement of the employee who was laid off. It sounded like a political answer. (Surprise...Surprise)

I thought it was interesting that the "it wasn't us (Disney) it was the Third Party Vendor who did it" excuse being invoked twice in a week about Disney. The other one was it wasn't us it was the third party vendor who used the mop on the floor and then used on the food court table. I guess we can expec to hear this excuse every time there is a flop or controversy. It was the third vendor who made the Yetti stop working. It was the Third Party Vendor who produced "Tommorowland" Movie, etc.

 

[Eoghann]

Last night on Megyn Kelley's show on Fox News Channel, she was interviewing Florida Senator and Presidential Candidate Marco Rubio. During the interview, she brought the HIB Visa and Disney. Senator Rubio stated that Disney outsourced the IT department to a 3rd party consulting firm(vendor)'and it was this consulting firm who was using the loophole. This appears to clash with the statement of the employee who was laid off. It sounded like a political answer. (Surprise...Surprise)

I thought it was interesting that the "it wasn't us (Disney) it was the Third Party Vendor who did it" excuse being invoked twice in a week about Disney. The other one was it wasn't us it was the third party vendor who used the mop on the floor and then used on the food court table. I guess we can expec to hear this excuse every time there is a flop or controversy. It was the third vendor who made the Yetti stop working. It was the Third Party Vendor who produced "Tommorowland" Movie, etc.

I think it is factually accurate. Whether that actually makes it a legitimate excuse is a whole other matter...

Personally I think if you subcontract or outsource you still have to take responsibility for that action and oversee it. Because the contract you have with your customer is between you and them, not them and the subcontractor. But then I'm only a Subcontracts Administrator by day so what would I know?

 

[sgtdisney]

Interesting.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/26/u...-replace-us-workers-with-immigrants.html?_r=0

 

[MommaBerd]

Disney was front and center in the H1B visa issue at the debate just a minute ago... Tough PR...

 

[bumbershoot]

The video is unavailable.

But I read all sorts of articles about it, and could find nothing *real* that was said that these were IT jobs (especially since Disney IT is in Seattle (we kind of know something about this, given that DH works in the tech industry in Seattle and knows LOTS of people), and these were FL workers) at all.

I believe the intent of the H1B Visa program is to temporarily bring in foreign specialized workers when such U.S. workers are not available. Disney and other companies have been accused of using it to just cut costs. They have available specialized workers--at Disney they were already on the payroll-but they still use the H1B program to bring in lower-wage foreign workers.

the issue? DH works with several people on such visas.

They are MORE EXPENSIVE than hiring a local person. The visas cost a ton for the company to get, and then the employer has to move the employee (and family) there. The company has to really want that employee, and they are NOT cheaper than a local person.

Xenophobia?? Really?? When a corporation takes US taxpayer dollars, was started in the US and a majority of its shareholders are US Citizens people tend to believe you should have loyalty to US workers.

Loyalty to US workers would, kind of, be a definition of xenophobia...

We were there as Temporary Workers who had specialized skills that people in HK did not possess.

You had skills that the Hong Kong employees didn't possess? Hmm. Cannot even imagine what skills those were that a HK person could learn.

 

[JaxDad]

They are MORE EXPENSIVE than hiring a local person. The visas cost a ton for the company to get, and then the employer has to move the employee (and family) there. The company has to really want that employee, and they are NOT cheaper than a local person.

In the case of Disney, it was not a matter of using the H1B program or hiring a local person. It was a matter of using the H1B program or firing a person already in the position. And, although I don't doubt there is a cost associated with bringing in an employee using the H1B program, this is generally an initial cost. Even if it costs $50K, and you are paying the new guy $75K instead of the $100K the current guy is getting, you will recoup in two years.

But, let's put all that aside, and accept that it does cost more initially and in the long-term to have an H1B employee, then why the heck did Disney do it? "Let's fire the guy we have and pay more for this new guy who MIGHT be better and will cost us more." I don't think so. We all know Disney is seeking to cut costs. I'm pretty sure they used the H1B program as one way to do so. They aren't the only ones.

 

[Eoghann]

In the case of Disney, it was not a matter of using the H1B program or hiring a local person. It was a matter of using the H1B program or firing a person already in the position. And, although I don't doubt there is a cost associated with bringing in an employee using the H1B program, this is generally an initial cost. Even if it costs $50K, and you are paying the new guy $75K instead of the $100K the current guy is getting, you will recoup in two years.

But, let's put all that aside, and accept that it does cost more initially and in the long-term to have an H1B employee, then why the heck did Disney do it? "Let's fire the guy we have and pay more for this new guy who MIGHT be better and will cost us more." I don't think so. We all know Disney is seeking to cut costs. I'm pretty sure they used the H1B program as one way to do so. They aren't the only ones.

The H1B Program element is a bit of a red herring. It's why they may face legal problems (because it's a questionable use of the program at best), but it's really not the core of what they were doing. They were looking to reduce their labor costs. Greening your contract labor is a common activity. Even if they hadn't gone the H1B route it is likely they'd have looked to replace their workforce with less experienced and thus cheaper employees. The end result is the same, people getting paid less. Whether the people are US citizens or not strikes me as immaterial.

 

[sgtdisney]

I work in an environment, in IT, where we have a number of people on Visas working for us, as well as off shore teams. I can tell you they make a lot less than the US staff. A lot less. In some cases more than a 1/3 less. Top that off with the fact a US company pays either a flat hourly or even a fixed annual price for the person regardless of overtime, it is a huge savings. US employees cost a lot with the benefits and especially with how much insurance costs in recent years, the savings is substantial. But we've never brought someone in to directly replace a a person in an existing position. Positions have been filled for new projects or in some cases after someone leaves and they can't easily replace them. If what's being said about how Disney did it is true, it's wrong in IMHO.

 

[PBB]

Loyalty to US workers would, kind of, be a definition of xenophobia...

You had skills that the Hong Kong employees didn't possess? Hmm. Cannot even imagine what skills those were that a HK person could learn.

The US Constitution lists as a requirement for Office of US President that you must be a natural born citizen of the United States. Is this Xenophobia?

Xenophobia is a fear or hatred of something or someone foreign. No one has said they should not hire people of a certain nationality or religion. There is no hatred of them. We don't live in a world where we can travel or move freely. Thankfully, we live in a country where that is possible. Our country has laws that you must be a US Citizen to work here, unless, you receive permission from the US government through various visas. In this case, Disney and their vendor used the H1b visa. These Visas are not a path to becoming a U.S. citizen and are good for three years. They can be renewed for an additional three years. The main purpose of these Visas are to provide US Companies access to someone who has skills not available here in the US. These skills were and are available in the US. The fact that US Citzens trained workers here under these Visas.

Since they have never constructed a Disneyland in Hong Kong........There we many skilled positions that were needed to create the Magic.......

 

[pork]

But I read all sorts of articles about it, and could find nothing *real* that was said that these were IT jobs (especially since Disney IT is in Seattle (we kind of know something about this, given that DH works in the tech industry in Seattle and knows LOTS of people), and these were FL workers) at all.

Here's a link where they are referred to as tech workers. I don't know much about Disney's IT structure but just based on other companies I'd be shocked if Disney only had IT in Seattle. Most of the large companies I've seem go with a more distributed model. They may have a main shop in a specific city but they tend to have teams in almost every major office too.

 

[disneyAndi14]

The sad thing as well, is the corporate greed, CEO's are no longer happy with making 10-12 million dollars a year, which is crazy, they have to make 50-60 million dollars a year and most of it is at the expense of the employees and middle America in general. Disgusting! The amount of money these top executives make yearly is absurd!

 

[mummabear]

Though once again an I'll note the disturbing Xenophobia that surfaces in these discussions. It is irrelevant what country the new hires came from. If Disney could have got workers that cheap who were US citizens they would have done. Cheap jobs is pretty much the dominant culture over here already. Walmart is the largest employer in 20 States!

This isnt Xenophobia. Each countries goverment has a responisibilty to its own citizens/taxpayers to stimulate employment oppurtunities and protect first the intrests of its own citizens. In this case it is stopping employers from hiring people from another country when there are skilled Americans who can do and need these jobs.
There will always be times when specialists are required for jobs and they may need to be foud externally (internationally) but basic IT isnt it.

I'm not American but I do think that every country owns it citizens to put their intrests above of those from anywhere else.

The US Constitution lists as a requirement for Office of US President that you must be a natural born citizen of the United States. Is this Xenophobia?

Xenophobia is a fear or hatred of something or someone foreign. No one has said they should not hire people of a certain nationality or religion. There is no hatred of them. We don't live in a world where we can travel or move freely. Thankfully, we live in a country where that is possible. Our country has laws that you must be a US Citizen to work here, unless, you receive permission from the US government through various visas. In this case, Disney and their vendor used the H1b visa. These Visas are not a path to becoming a U.S. citizen and are good for three years. They can be renewed for an additional three years. The main purpose of these Visas are to provide US Companies access to someone who has skills not available here in the US. These skills were and are available in the US. The fact that US Citzens trained workers here under these Visas.

Since they have never constructed a Disneyland in Hong Kong........There we many skilled positions that were needed to create the Magic.......

I agree, the problem isnt that they are foriegn (as in I dont want people from x or who look like x to work here), in this case it is that they are not American, this company is in America and there are Americans that can (and were) filling those roles. No different if it was a NZ based company that it would be NZers that should be getting the jobs before anyone else.

 

[mshanson3121]

The moral of the story is that yes, Disney did some awful stuff, and yes, if the case plays out as seems likely, they are going to pay out the nose for it .

Curious... would the potential for a large pay out be factoring into all the recent cuts etc? Are they thinking ahead? Or, when they finally settle and pay out the big bucks, will we see another round of cuts?

 

[mshanson3121]

Actually it's not political at all and it's not Disney per se, it's the whole corporate culture in the US (and other countries).

Money... Profit... Return on Sale... Growth... Cashflow... Stock Price...

Yes there is usually at least token references to Greening and Diversity and Engagement but the words above are all any large companies truly care about. Employees are a renewable resource.

Though once again an I'll note the disturbing Xenophobia that surfaces in these discussions. It is irrelevant what country the new hires came from. If Disney could have got workers that cheap who were US citizens they would have done. Cheap jobs is pretty much the dominant culture over here already. Walmart is the largest employer in 20 States!

A wee bit dramatic. Xenophobia? Not even close. Not even remotely the definition of it (which I suggest you brush up on).

 

[mshanson3121]

Loyalty to US workers would, kind of, be a definition of xenophobia...

No, it's not. At all actually. Xenophobia is based on fear and hatred. There is a difference between loyalty and fear.

 

[Hisgirl]

My husband works in manufacturing. His company will make product out of the country and pay less because the unions caused their US pay to sky rocket out of balance. They have had to shut down plants because of the unions. The plants would be unprofitable and it's all about keeping the stock holders happy. Ugh.
Our system here is out of whack. The companies need to pay a wage relative to the skill. We need to bring manufacturing back to the US. When I was a kid, the towns were full of plants making product.
My daughter lives in Camobodia and Thailand. She has seen first hand the shrimp farms and the 'slaves' whose workers' passports are held and who cannot afford to leave. I only buy local shrimp due to this and try to always buy US made. This whole IT thing really bothered me. We need jobs here and need to stop being the #1 economic developer in China.