Disney pricing the middle class out

[jec6613]

I'd like to see a 1985 to today comparison of prices (30 year history), not 1971, which is completely unfair. In between 1971 and 1985 there was Carter era inflation, the end of the ticket books, the opening of a second gate (Epcot) and, let's also be honest: effective air travel didn't fully exist until McCoy AFB closed in 1975, and it didn't start becoming a major way to get there until 1978 under airline deregulation.

Just food for thought.

 

[rteetz]

Or heard about the plans for a whole Star Wars themed area?

What plans? If there were any concrete one believe me I would know.

 

[rteetz]

I'd like to see a 1985 to today comparison of prices (30 year history), not 1971, which is completely unfair. In between 1971 and 1985 there was Carter era inflation, the end of the ticket books, the opening of a second gate (Epcot) and, let's also be honest: effective air travel didn't fully exist until McCoy AFB closed in 1975, and it didn't start becoming a major way to get there until 1978 under airline deregulation.

Just food for thought.

Ticket books ended in 82 when epcot opened I believe so that would be a good place to start.

 

[cmash95]

the main reason for price increases, costs going up. you have a huge workforce who just got >50 per hour raises and will get an additional >50 an hour next may. add to that the rising costs of benefits and the money has to come from somewhere. food costs go up so the cost of food in the park goes up. thats how things work. Living in florida I have heard complaints constantly about how theme park ticket prices are going through the roof. These places are businesses not a charity and a few years back two things happened that affected pricing. Florida voters passed an amendment to the state constitution that raised the minimum wage at the timme to over 7.00 an hour and then indexed it to inflaation from then on. Come forward to last year when the california minimum wage went up to 9.00 then 9.50 and eventually next year to 10.00 and hour. How does that affect florida? well universal, disney , and sea world all have parks in cali. so if their cali employees get the raises then the florida counterparts want it too and Disney is unionised. and get ready because there is a bill in the california legislature that would push that minimum wage to 13.00 an hour beginning in 2017. I hope governor brown has the sense to veto it but california is the most liberal state in the country so if you can't leave the state, then you are forced to pay. and so ticket prices will keep rising.

 

[Josh Hendy]

the main reason for price increases, costs going up. you have a huge workforce who just got >50 per hour raises and will get an additional >50 an hour next may. add to that the rising costs of benefits and the money has to come from somewhere. food costs go up so the cost of food in the park goes up. thats how things work.

I'm with this. A big reason why theme park prices are rising "faster than official inflation" is that official inflation figures are a crock. In 1980 (and again in 1990) the government changed the methodology in order be able to report lower inflation. If you calculate consumer inflation from 1983 after the WDW ticket system was abolished up until the present day, but you use the methodology that was used before 1980, you can see that real inflation has averaged around 6% per year since then, and has not been less than 5% in any year since 1987. Whereas "officially" inflation only averaged about 2 or 3% per year.



Link (and a quote: "methodological shifts in government reporting have depressed reported inflation, moving the concept of the CPI away from being a measure of the cost of living needed to maintain a constant standard of living")

So if inflation was officially averaging 3% per year since 1983 (the first year after the ride-ticket system was abolished) then after 32 years, the $15 adult 1-day admission should be less than $40.

But when recalculating using actual inflation of 6% ... your $15 admission should be about $96. Almost bang-on the actual amount for January 2015. (historical admission prices are from allears.net)

So you can't lay this at the feet of Disney's corporate greed. Their price increases are in line with the actual increase in costs during the last 30 years or so. Plus or minus. Plus some things, like offering more parks and adding more shows and rides, minus some things like letting 3/4 of the parks stagnate. But remember, people only visit those stagnant, "half-day" parks because they're paying 1/2 price for extra days on their multi-day passes.

The only truly evil thing about WDW admission prices is that inflation (which is expansion of the money supply) is never neutral. The average person is severely harmed by inflation due to the erosion of the spending power of their paycheck and of their savings. Let's put it this way - if inflation didn't give a financial advantage to the bankers and government officials who control the money supply, they wouldn't do it. Their advantage is the middle-class and lower-class worker and consumer's disadvantage.

That's why it really hurts to see the increase in WDW prices compared to your paycheck and the value of your savings.

 

[manning]

$1.00 in 1971 had the same buying power as $5.90 in 2015

Annual inflation over this period was 4.12%.

That means that $45.00 I paid in 1971 should be $265.90 today. That was a Polynesian lagoon view.

 

[crazy4wdw]

Ticket books ended in 82 when epcot opened I believe so that would be a good place to start.

In 1982, the price for a three day world passport was $35, a four day world passport was $45. That was back in the day where park hopping was included in the price and also the days could be used whenever you wanted to use them. In 1989, the year the Studios was opened, the three day pass was discontinued and Disney introduced the four day all three parks passport which was priced at $96.

I wish I had purchased about 20 to 30 of those passes in 1982!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Supply and demand baby. "It's the economy".

As long as Disney supplies I will demand.

And as long as you demand...they're gonna look for ways to screw you. At least this group of "visionary" managers. Wasnt always that way...and they made plenty of profits.

Can't stress this enough...

 

[maxiesmom]

I don't understand why some think any business has to offer their product for what they deem as an affordable price. A trip to WDW is not a right or a need. Just like a Porche is not a right or a need. Both are luxuries.

Not to mention, what is "affordable" is so subjective. Two families with the same take home pay may be able to afford very different vacations. One family may have an old car and no debt, so they can afford to stay for 10 days at the Poly. The other family may have a sick mom they are taking care of, and medical bills so they can only afford a 5 day vacation at the Sports.

What is affordable is to a large part dependent on so many factors, other than the cost of an item.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

$1.00 in 1971 had the same buying power as $5.90 in 2015

Annual inflation over this period was 4.12%.

That means that $45.00 I paid in 1971 should be $265.90 today. That was a Polynesian lagoon view.

That room is currently about $600 dollars give or take...

Or a timeshare with a $22,000 or so buy in starting price

 

[crazy4wdw]

$1.00 in 1971 had the same buying power as $5.90 in 2015

Annual inflation over this period was 4.12%.

That means that $45.00 I paid in 1971 should be $265.90 today. That was a Polynesian lagoon view.

I stayed at the Contemporary Resort in January 1972 with my grandparents. The price for a tower room was $44 per night. I still have the reservation confirmation.

 

[jimmytammy]

I read this article, and IMO, and I stress, this just my opinion, the writer is sharing his opinion from a anti-business attitude. Is WDW expensive, oh yea, will we stop going, oh no! We have seen the huge increase since our 1st trip in 99. I think tickets were like $34 or so a day. Prompted us to buy APs, prompted us to visit as often as possible, prompted us to buy into DVC, etc. We look for every angle to save $$ on our trips. But I am willing to work extra hours to make those trips happen. According to the fed., my family is considered poor, not the way I consider myself, a business owner, successful, conservative, save for the trips because its what we like to do. And to say that only the elite 10% visit or will visit in the future, thats crazy. I am not making myself out any better than anyone else, God created us all the same. But I have seen the change in "classes" of people since 99 in the parks. And its def. not folks walking around in designer clothes, expensive watches, etc. So, to the writer of the article, dig a little deeper next time

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I stayed at the Contemporary Resort in January 1972 with my grandparents. The price for a tower room was $44 per night. I still have the reservation confirmation.

I believe some of the backside rooms were $29...

I'm not suggesting that the rooms should be a straight reflection of simple inflation...supply and demand would dictate that they should be more...that's not unreasonable...

But 200-300% ?

That's a little bit in question...

Remember that until Eisner came in they had a cooperative "good neighbor" policy with the local business community - which is the reason why they never built the original plot of hotels around 7 Seas and kept the hotel operation small...they could have used them if they wanted to.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I read this article, and IMO, and I stress, this just my opinion, the writer is sharing his opinion from a anti-business attitude.

I agree with most of your post in many ways...at least the stuff that is tangible...

But I have to say that what we really need is more anti-business sentiment because the playing field has been so tilted from a society standpoint.

The myth that the "free market" (which is and has been a laughable term since the 1920's) is winning and everyone has a shot is the biggest silent problem in this particular county moving forward. Neither the perception nor the numbers bare that out and it has been getting worse at an alarming rate of late. That's a social trend but indicative of this particular issue.

History has taught us that you cannot expect the masses to take it forever. It's a fact of humanity.

Now Disneyland and wdw is not that heavy of a topic...but it is loosely related to much deeper issues.

 

[ChimCher-ee]

Supply and demand baby. "It's the economy".

As long as Disney supplies I will demand.

Agreed. I think we can speculate, dissect, argue, blame, support - - but it's pointless because we can never really know the "whys," just deal with the consequences as best we can.

Am I disappointed I have to pay more? Absolutely. Will it stop me? Not yet.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

I don't understand why some think any business has to offer their product for what they deem as an affordable price. A trip to WDW is not a right or a need. Just like a Porche is not a right or a need. Both are luxuries.

Not to mention, what is "affordable" is so subjective. Two families with the same take home pay may be able to afford very different vacations. One family may have an old car and no debt, so they can afford to stay for 10 days at the Poly. The other family may have a sick mom they are taking care of, and medical bills so they can only afford a 5 day vacation at the Sports.

What is affordable is to a large part dependent on so many factors, other than the cost of an item.

I don't think Disney has any responsibility to price things the way we want them... I never did.

I am surprised that millions of consumers are so spineless in accepting it the pricing policies particularly of the last 10 years...

Even if the money is no object - each time you accept straight exploitation - It's going to hurt you in the aggregate down the line.

Is wdw still a great place? Of course...

Do I think that the shuttering of rides and attractions that used to be included WITHOUT replacement and 5-7 year construction timelines for minor additions/repurposing is a good deal at consistent, increasing prices? Not really. Remember that cruise ships and vacation club rooms are not for everyone's benefit - pay to play on a different field there. Not sure Disney springs is gonna be either.

That's were I take the left fork in the road.

But I didnt study Econ and monetary policy at the University of Chicago either...so what do I know?

 

[manning]

Kind of remember an old saying is good

"Greed is good it's going to make or break you and more times it will break you"

How close is Disney getting to the breaking point we'll never know until it happens.

We own DVC and it is costing us less to spend time there.

You see, I am the one you see in the parks with a peanut butter and jelly sandwich . Sometimes I will splurge.....I'll toast the bread and bring water.

 

[minnie-apple-mouse]

The theme parks left the middle class behind-because of the middle class demands IMO.

Even right now on this thread folks are almost demanding more more more expansion and rides.

Yet there are also constant complaints of year around crowding there.

Yes prices have increased with limited (lately anyway) expansion-but does anybody think prices would have stayed the same (or gone down) with massive continued constant expansion?

What did/does everyone think that would/will lead to?

 

[Planogirl]

Salaries are stagnant and prices keep skyrocketing and certainly not just at the Disney parks. However people can't just keep on paying the ever increasing prices without having issues. Maybe some of them already are.

I agree with those who say that WDW is a luxury and not a right or necessity. That doesn't keep people from having the right to make comments about the cost.

 

[jerry557]

What's bringing attention to this now is how Disney recently laid off workers so they can hire cheaper foreign labor through H-1B visa program. So now all of Disney's decisions are going to get put under scrutiny and criticized and you will increasingly see negative news articles. Stockholders keep pushing and pushing for more profit margin, but eventually Iger is going to push too far.

Disney is not a struggling company. They are making record profits. Yet their workers are not seeing wages increase and some are actually being laid off. Meanwhile, hotels, admission, and food keep rising exponentially. People have a right to question a corporation's business practices.