Disney pricing the middle class out

[maxiesmom]

What about parks like DHS and Epcot both have had very little investment in the last 10 years. Can you justify either park for $100 with what 5-6 rides and shows that have been the same for a long time.

Really? Have you not heard of a little ride called Toy Story Mania? Have you not been on the new Star Tours? Or heard about the plans for a whole Star Wars themed area?

 

[umichigan10]

To be honest I agree Disney is expensive but so is a lot of things. I mean look at pricing to a sporting event. I know for a patriots game it costs 65 dollars to park and half your savings for tickets, same for red Sox and the like. It doesn't justify them not adding on to their parks while raising prices but it puts it into perspective that everything is pricing out the middle class

 

[rteetz]

Really? Have you not heard of a little ride called Toy Story Mania? Have you not been on the new Star Tours? Or heard about the plans for a whole Star Wars themed area?

Toy story mania was in 2008 it's been 7 years... Star tours was a domestic upgrade it didn't drive attendance to DHS after it was upgraded. Think about this. TSMM at DHS has 60+ minute waits normally. TSMM same exact ride at DCA rarely gets that high. Why? Because there is a lot more to do in DCA than DHS.

 

[maxiesmom]

Toy story mania was in 2008 it's been 7 years... Star tours was a domestic upgrade it didn't drive attendance to DHS after it was upgraded. Think about this. TSMM at DHS has 60+ minute waits normally. TSMM same exact ride at DCA rarely gets that high. Why? Because there is a lot more to do in DCA than DHS.

I guess I don't consider 7 years "a long time" when it comes to a theme park. Besides, the post I quoted had to do with cost and rides staying the same, and said nothing about driving attendance.

And don't forget DCA is 2 parks, not 4 plus water parks and a shopping district. And mini golf and a boardwalk area. I don't think you are comparing apples to apples.

 

[DDLand]

Really? Have you not heard of a little ride called Toy Story Mania? Have you not been on the new Star Tours? Or heard about the plans for a whole Star Wars themed area?

I take a moderate view of this. I don't feel like I'm getting ripped off because they aren't opening new attractions all the time. I'm paying more for a product that is essentially the same. I understand that. It's not great but I don't get really angry. While that doesn't really bother me, I'm not going to try to rationalize their building speed as a way of justifying price increases.

Basically let's not beat around the bush, the new attractions are not justifying the price increases. That's okay, but not enough to create a simple cause and effect. Maybe it used to be that price increases equaled new attractions, but not anymore.

 

[undertheradar]

What has been the percentage increase of World citizens as opposed to U.S. citizens? There are many who travel to the USA and stay for weeks/months, they must also be outspending the U.S. middle class. What household income figure is being used to define middle class?

 

[rteetz]

I guess I don't consider 7 years "a long time" when it comes to a theme park. Besides, the post I quoted had to do with cost and rides staying the same, and said nothing about driving attendance.

7 years is a long time in theme park years. Average return time for guests is 3.5 years. DHS has also taken away a lot in the last couple years. If the Star tours upgrade was so great why doesn't that see the same wait times TSMM does. My point about attendance is, attendance is usually what it takes to change something in a theme park. If attendance is low something is done if attendance is high nothing is done.

 

[maxiesmom]

I take a moderate view of this. I don't feel like I'm getting ripped off because they aren't opening new attractions all the time. I'm paying more for a product that is essentially the same. I understand that. It's not great but I don't get really angry. While that doesn't really bother me, I'm not going to try to rationalize their building speed as a way of justifying price increases.

Basically let's not beat around the bush, the new attractions are not justifying the price increases. That's okay, but not enough to create a simple cause and effect. Maybe it used to be that price increases equaled new attractions, but not anymore.

We can't talk about this like all 4 of the parks at WDW are independent of each other. They aren't. They are part of the same giant corporation. Disney has been spending money hand over fist lately--with the loved or hated FP+ and Magic Bands, with the new DVC units, with refurbs at the resort and in the parks, and with the opening of New Fantasyland.

I highly doubt the money spent on one day tickets for DS is kept and spent only on attractions at DS.

 

[rteetz]

I take a moderate view of this. I don't feel like I'm getting ripped off because they aren't opening new attractions all the time. I'm paying more for a product that is essentially the same. I understand that. It's not great but I don't get really angry. While that doesn't really bother me, I'm not going to try to rationalize their building speed as a way of justifying price increases.

Basically let's not beat around the bush, the new attractions are not justifying the price increases. That's okay, but not enough to create a simple cause and effect. Maybe it used to be that price increases equaled new attractions, but not anymore.

But in the case of DHS you are paying more for less. They have taken away several experiences over the last few years. Epcot would be a good example of what you are talking about because nothing has been really added or taken away except for maelstrom but that's already changing into something new. Nothing is happening at DHS yet and likely won't for a couple more years yet.

 

[rteetz]

We can't talk about this like all 4 of the parks at WDW are independent of each other. They aren't. They are part of the same giant corporation. Disney has been spending money hand over fist lately--with the loved or hated FP+ and Magic Bands, with the new DVC units, with refurbs at the resort and in the parks, and with the opening of New Fantasyland.

I highly doubt the money spent on one day tickets for DS is kept and spent only on attractions at DS.

Hotel refurbs are done every ten years about no matter what. DVC is a hot ticket for Disney they are going to build that as long as it sells because it does it's a huge money maker.

Now while I like NFL we didn't get a lot new from it. Double dumbo, a cloned ride from DCA, mine train which was originally supposed to be longer and better, a couple meet and greets, and a over rated restaurant.

 

[mrsclark]

Disney is currently a buffet. When you go to a buffet you want to get as much out of it as you can to justify the cost. If it were to revert back to being a la cart, I imagine crowds would shift and some rides would become less crowded.

I'm amused by people who complain that Disney is price-gouging "us". Nobody is forcing anyone to go to Disney for their vacation. There are substitutes, albeit imperfect ones, vying for your vacation dollars. Of course Disney is going to continue to increase prices as long as the crowds continue to increase. Will I go to Disney for $100 per day? Yep. Will I go for $200 per day? Nope. Somewhere between those 2 amounts is where my personal supply and demand curves meet for a Disney experience.

This is a really economically-sound argument, couldn't have said it any better myself! It all comes down to supply and demand. When the All-Star resorts were built it was because Disney recognized that there was a hole in their hotel portfolio AND they could make a profit by building on-property "budget" accommodations. And clearly there is a demand for the Poly bungalows - I hear they are pretty much booked solid! Disney is a business and the purpose of a business is to make money, so they are just following the money with the poly bungalows and raising ticket prices (because demand is going up/attendance is rising). Now in the long run when we hit another stock market correction like we did six/seven or so years, demand may fall for pricey bungalows and VIP tours. At that point Disney may be forced to make a correction with deeper discounts or even look into building another value or moderate resort. The point is they will sniff out what group has dollars Disney could profit from whether that be the working class, middle class or the rich and will adjust their strategy to target getting that group to spend their money.

 

[DDLand]

We can't talk about this like all 4 of the parks at WDW are independent of each other. They aren't. They are part of the same giant corporation. Disney has been spending money hand over fist lately--with the loved or hated FP+ and Magic Bands, with the new DVC units, with refurbs at the resort and in the parks, and with the opening of New Fantasyland.

I highly doubt the money spent on one day tickets for DS is kept and spent only on attractions at DS.

It's not that hard, look at CapEx over longterm. There's been a slight pop recently over the last little while because of Shanghai construction. It's still not near the percent level in the 90s.

Also, most of the money has been shipped overseas recently. Or to Disneyland. WDW has not been receiving a proportional amount spent on it. While it's true WDW doesn't need attractions, I do think there's locked growth potential.

 

[DDLand]

But in the case of DHS you are paying more for less. They have taken away several experiences over the last few years. Epcot would be a good example of what you are talking about because nothing has been really added or taken away except for maelstrom but that's already changing into something new. Nothing is happening at DHS yet and likely won't for a couple more years yet.

DHS has recieved a plethora of Frozen offerings. They've added some offerings, and in 2008 and 2011 they recieved updates/new attractions. Frankly I prefer the DHS of today to the DHS of a decade ago. I think it's a better value.

 

[rteetz]

DHS has recieved a plethora of Frozen offerings. They've added some offerings, and in 2008 and 2011 they recieved updates/new attractions. Frankly I prefer the DHS of today to the DHS of a decade ago. I think it's a better value.

I just feel that Disney shouldn't have closed attractions for nothing. Like the backlot tour which has sat untouched since it's closed. I don't recall star tours prior to the update so I can't say if that really changed a whole lot at least for me. Being the age I am I haven't paid for a Disney vacation myself yet so I guess I can't feel what the real value is. I love going to WDW and will continue to go as long as I can afford it or at least my parents. I do know however that being a family of five its harder to and more expensive to find a cheaper room on property. I love POR but for five its a bit tight. And we can't afford suites or villas.

 

[Dean Marino]

Rising Prices at WDW.... how to frame a purely personal opinion?

These absolutely affect us. But ... we're actually in FAVOR of the approach. Even if it costs us more. To understand why, first consider the prices that WDW still
has control over (in our case), vs the total cost of a vacation....

1) Airfare? Nope, no WDW Airline....
2) Food - capped. Capped at the level of our cost for a round-trip cab to several OFFSITE, or on-site Non Disney owned Signature Restaurants.
3) Lodging - during the recent 8 year "interest rate pit" imposed by the FED? We made the plunge & joined DVC. Dues go up by actual cost, and the front end cost was worth it - we weren't getting any interest anyway .

Now, of course, items 1-3 WILL go up. Inflation is a reality.

4) Park admission.

When we break down 1-4, as a percentage of our total real cost? Park Admission (form of an Annual Pass for each of us) could just about double, before it became what a retired chemist would refer to as "rate limiting". Of course - ANY increase in cost is unsavory.... but Park Admission is not even CLOSE to our greatest expense.

Again - all opinion based on OUR case.... we also firmly believe the Parks are being "Loved to Death". "Hugged until they choke". There are just WAY too many people in them. I'm not sure it's possible for Disney to hire enough staff to repair a war zone on a daily basis.... and I think they are beginning to realize this.

So - I can't blame Disney for raising Park Prices. I have to admit, if I ran that company and had a product that was being loved to DEATH, that no human work force could maintain in the face of a daily invasion? I would try to protect my bottom line while reducing the human footprint - and that means economic screening in the form of higher gate prices. Our own GOVERNMENT has done this (years ago).... Yosemite National Park was being DESTROYED by "love".... to save it, access HAD to be choked. It was done, while insuring that the funds necessary to keep the Park alive continued to flow.

Now - many folks will disagree with me, and that's OK. Please, understand.... I've said all this because it is OUR situation - not to "slam" or demean anyone ELSE'S situation. Like everyone else? We can't afford to buy a big house in the middle of San Francisco . To us? Welllllll - there are just things that cost a bunch that we are not going to be able to get.

 

[seascapemvy]

Disney has never been for the middle class. When grew up in a well off town at the Jersey Shore only on friend who was an only child and whose father was a pilot went to both Disneyland and WDW. Only a few others went to WDW. Today it seems like everyone I know takes their kids to Disney every 2 or 3 years. I know most parents will only take their kids one but my fairly well off parents could not afford to take 4 kids to WDW.

Why the change? How about family size. No one I know has more than 3 kids and most only have one and a few have two. That is a major change and explains a lot.

Now is Disney expensive? Yes but timeshares and season passes have also changed things. People can and do take yearly vacations to Orlando and not spend too much on staying. There are many reasons for the high ticket prices but to say people are priced out is false. Just look at the 141,000 a day who go to WDW.

 

[wallrock]

A key factor is the purchasing power of a family’s income in 1971 compared to today. In ’71 the minimum wage was $1.60, which equals just shy of $9.00 an hour today. Today it’s $7.25 and worth, well, $7.25. And let’s not forget our counterparts in the tip-based service industry who get a minimum of $2.13 and count on the good graces of others who aren’t exactly rolling in the dough.

Nine bucks an hour vs. seven and a quarter…and what you bought for a buck back then would cost you $5.89 today.

An earlier post suggested that a day at the Magic Kingdom in current dollars was $70 in 1971 and it sits at $105 (and will probably rise again soon) today. As others have pointed out, the cost of hotels, food, gasoline and so on have gone north with equal vigor.

Total inflation of nearly five hundred percent since 1971 and seeing a ‘drop’ in income by a buck seventy-five …I’d say the average middle class family – if they truly exist – is having a bit of a tougher time than their counterparts back in the day when it comes to visiting the House of the Mouse.

 

[Jadyreen1282]

Supply and demand baby. "It's the economy".

As long as Disney supplies I will demand.

 

[umichigan10]

I just feel that Disney shouldn't have closed attractions for nothing. Like the backlot tour which has sat untouched since it's closed. I don't recall star tours prior to the update so I can't say if that really changed a whole lot at least for me. Being the age I am I haven't paid for a Disney vacation myself yet so I guess I can't feel what the real value is. I love going to WDW and will continue to go as long as I can afford it or at least my parents. I do know however that being a family of five its harder to and more expensive to find a cheaper room on property. I love POR but for five its a bit tight. And we can't afford suites or villas.

At first it seemed they were gunning for an expansion and now it seems like they're saving money and cutting experiences while they're kicking around rough expansion plans that aren't as close to fruition as originally thought apparently

 

[dinolounger]

Have you not heard of a little ride called Toy Story Mania? Have you not been on the new Star Tours?

Universal adds a massive addition (Diagon Alley) to an already ground breaking attraction and also adds a major new attraction called Transformers.

In the meantime, Disney adds one new attraction to a park that needs about four to five times that and a minor upgrade to a 1990s era motion simulator. So Studios remains a half day park.

And you want to know why the the volume of guests at Disney resorts who are now being picked up every morning by Mears for the trip to Universal is increasing?

Or heard about the plans for a whole Star Wars themed area?

Yeah, "plans" just like the repeatedly delayed Avatar sequels that are supposed to be boosting Avatarland.