Disney , please don't do this...

O.k, I'm trying to understand the sentiment of some of the folks on this thread. Here is my question:

Do you WANT Disney to start charging for FP's? If so, why?

Dan

I would love to see Disney offer an unlimited Fastpass for sale, similar to the systems offered at SW and Universal. One that doesn't involve pre-booking of rides at any specific time. Why?

Because it enhances our park experience, and we are willing to pay for that.

Because we have used both the Universal Express Pass and SeaWorld Quick Queue, and loved both systems.

Because we save so much staying offsite that we could easily afford the extra cost.

Because the current FP+ system involves yet another set of times to be adhered to (over and above ADR's) which simply isn't the way our family wants to vacation. We want to be spontaneous and go with the flow. It would allow a visitor to arrive whenever they wished (eliminating the need for rope drop) and still be able to enjoy the rides without a wait.

Because I would rather sink my money into something like an unlimited Fastpass than other "extras" like the Dining Plan, BBB or the Pirates League, etc.
 
I also believe that Disney should reward those who stay onsite with more then they do now. EMH is a joke most of the time (especially since they reduced hours of it). ME is a decent service, but not ground breaking. Other transportation options are not resort exclusive. Free parking at the parks is not a perk that is really worth anything due to the fact that Disney offers other transportation methods.

So why stay onsite?
 
So why stay onsite?

Because I enjoy POFQ better then other options in the area and I can afford it. It really is that simple. I don't use EMH. I do use the transportation, but like I said, that is available to anyone and not just resort guests so it's not a "perk".

That doesn't mean that I can't feel like more is needed.

A lot of my answer comes from a more... business perspective then a consumer perspective. I often take that stance since very few others are willing to ever see it from that side of the equation.
 
I have no issues for those who spend more to get more fast passes. Other parks do the same thing.
 

I would feel a little ripped off if I paid for unlimited FP+ because it's great for MK but the rest I the parks don't have enough rides to make it worth the extra money.
 
I would feel a little ripped off if I paid for unlimited FP+ because it's great for MK but the rest I the parks don't have enough rides to make it worth the extra money.

Universal charges different rates for Express Pass for the two different parks (and also offers a two-park option at a 3rd price point for those doing both parks in one day).

They could easily tailor an unlimited Fastpass price to the park it applies to.
 
Universal charges different rates for Express Pass for the two different parks (and also offers a two-park option at a 3rd price point for those doing both parks in one day). They could easily tailor an unlimited Fastpass price to the park it applies to.

They could do that.
 
I would love to see Disney offer an unlimited Fastpass for sale, similar to the systems offered at SW and Universal. One that doesn't involve pre-booking of rides at any specific time. Why?

Because it enhances our park experience, and we are willing to pay for that.

Because we have used both the Universal Express Pass and SeaWorld Quick Queue, and loved both systems.

Because we save so much staying offsite that we could easily afford the extra cost.

Because the current FP+ system involves yet another set of times to be adhered to (over and above ADR's) which simply isn't the way our family wants to vacation. We want to be spontaneous and go with the flow. It would allow a visitor to arrive whenever they wished (eliminating the need for rope drop) and still be able to enjoy the rides without a wait.

Because I would rather sink my money into something like an unlimited Fastpass than other "extras" like the Dining Plan, BBB or the Pirates League, etc.

The unlimited express pass or quick queue has at least one potential fatal flaw. That's greed. The business model is built on scarcity. If too many people have access to express line. It no longer feels express and worth the costs. While at the same time, people without express passes feel like their wait they aren't getting their money's worth because their waits are longer.

I have never used a pay line cutting service. Most of my trips to Orlando are Solo so I use the single rider line extensively. If I was traveling with a group I would need to think long and hard about visiting Universal during busier times without an Express Pass, let alone the busiest times like Christmas. I was a single rider and just after New Years 2013 was maddening. And some of that trepidation is caused to Express Pass. If a theme park isn't careful, they will lost their meat and potato's customer (day guests without express passes) attempting to go after a little more gravy (express pass dollars).

Universal right now seems to be successfully skirting that line for the most part. The seem to realize the line is there by not giving guests at Cabana Bay free unlimited Express Passes. But if you look on Trip Advisor you see 5* review from people with express passes glowing about skipping the lines and 1* review from people who couldn't afford or who felt almost forced into buying express passes because of long lines and express pass people riding over and over and over again.

Some of the Six Flags Parks got greedy and it's potentially hurt them in the long run.
 
I can't possibly enjoy Universal without the EP's unless I go during the off season. Even on slower days the popular have 80 or 90 min waits. The queues are in the sun and there's hardly any air or fans. It's like punishment for not buying EPs.
 
You can't possibly enjoy Universal without the EP's unless you go during the off season. Even on slower days the popular have 80 or 90 min waits. The queues are in the sun and there's hardly any air or fans. It's like punishment for not buying EPs.

We've gone the last three years in early June without them and it was no problem. Only waited for one ride (Spiderman) for 60 minutes. Other than that we have never really waited more than 45 minutes, Half the time Hulk, RRR, Curse of the Mummy and other headliners are under 20 minutes.
 
The unlimited express pass or quick queue has at least one potential fatal flaw. That's greed. The business model is built on scarcity. If too many people have access to express line. It no longer feels express and worth the costs. While at the same time, people without express passes feel like their wait they aren't getting their money's worth because their waits are longer.

I have never used a pay line cutting service. Most of my trips to Orlando are Solo so I use the single rider line extensively. If I was traveling with a group I would need to think long and hard about visiting Universal during busier times without an Express Pass, let alone the busiest times like Christmas. I was a single rider and just after New Years 2013 was maddening. And some of that trepidation is caused to Express Pass. If a theme park isn't careful, they will lost their meat and potato's customer (day guests without express passes) attempting to go after a little more gravy (express pass dollars).

Universal right now seems to be successfully skirting that line for the most part. The seem to realize the line is there by not giving guests at Cabana Bay free unlimited Express Passes. But if you look on Trip Advisor you see 5* review from people with express passes glowing about skipping the lines and 1* review from people who couldn't afford or who felt almost forced into buying express passes because of long lines and express pass people riding over and over and over again.

Some of the Six Flags Parks got greedy and it's potentially hurt them in the long run.

Disney could limit the number of unlimited fast passes available for each day. The ADRs are limited for each restaurant. The same could be done with FPs.
 
Because I enjoy POFQ better then other options in the area and I can afford it. It really is that simple. I don't use EMH. I do use the transportation, but like I said, that is available to anyone and not just resort guests so it's not a "perk".

That doesn't mean that I can't feel like more is needed.

A lot of my answer comes from a more... business perspective then a consumer perspective. I often take that stance since very few others are willing to ever see it from that side of the equation.

I'm sorry, but your answer comes from a purely consumer perspective - and from the perspective of a minority consumer class (onsite guests). You say Disney "should" do this or that for onsite guests, when what Disney actually has done has satisfied you to this point. Sure you'd like more, as would everyone, but you've found a combination of features that you think have value equal to (at least) what you'll exchange for them.

From a business perspective, Disney has to calculate the net effect of taking what has been historically a universal feature and changing it to a perk for onsite guests only - their smallest class of visitor. If that made sense from a business perspective, seems like it would have been done long ago.

I suspect that Disney has calculated that their onsite guest are generally satisfied with the combination of accommodations, transportation, dining plans, EMH and other features available only to onsite guests, and that adding FP+ as an onsite perk at the expense of offsite guests is a net negative - and that it shouldn't be done.
 
We've gone the last three years in early June without them and it was no problem. Only waited for one ride (Spiderman) for 60 minutes. Other than that we have never really waited more than 45 minutes, Half the time Hulk, RRR, Curse of the Mummy and other headliners are under 20 minutes.

Yes, if you hit it just right the beginning and end of summer it can be great but once I got the first taste of EP I hated going without it.
 
I suspect that Disney has calculated that their onsite guest are generally satisfied with the combination of accommodations, transportation, dining plans, EMH and other features available only to onsite guests, and that adding FP+ as an onsite perk at the expense of offsite guests is a net negative - and that it shouldn't be done.

Really? Where do you get that information? FP+ is new and not fully implemented yet.
 
Honestly, I'm shocked that Disney didn't introduce, and even keep, FastPass+ as a on-site only perk. (And I'm someone who isn't a fan of Disney resorts.)

The per day guest numbers would have been much more manageable, even at peak times, allowing for tiered FastPasses per resort category (e.g. 3/day if you're at a Value, 4/day at a Moderate, 5/day at a Deluxe, perhaps even more if you're staying concierge), flexible park hopping even at launch, and addressing just about every other common complaint seen here all WITHOUT dramatically increasing standby wait times (since you're dealing with a smaller subset of guests) and even without needing to add FastPass+ to so many attractions.

I get that was done partially for crowd management, and to increase usage of so-called secondary attractions, but given attraction line re-dos, Cast Member re-training and other costs, coupled with the fact that they operated at high crowd levels without that sort of shifted management needed, for decades, I have a hard time buying that was the most critical reason. Literally needing more FastPass+ to feed to the masses was.

Yes, Disney needs off-site guests--last I heard anywhere from between 60-70% of people in the parks on any given day were staying off-property--but they also make substantially more, per-customer, from on-site guests. Given the precedent set by other parks, including Universal's Express Pass, and Disney's own logic that only half their guests utilized the previous incarnation of FastPass, turning FastPass+ into a resort-specific perk would hardly be beyond the pale. Especially if they had introduced it slowly (again, probably by resort category) and then gently phased out legacy FastPass.

Heck, given their monster resort room capacity compared to Universal's relatively meagre supply, "selling" FastPass+ wouldn't even have to come into it at all. Sure they COULD market it a for-cost system for day guests or APs, if they wanted to, but making it a resort-only perk would likely increase their occupancy even if they raised their rates, likely making it profitable to continue to expand their room inventory. And, yes, people buying "throwaway" rooms for a day or two of FastPass+ use would likely become common, just as it is now at Universal, which also wouldn't upset Disney one little bit. They get the revenue from a room without actually having any wear and tear on their property AND incur decreased employee costs, due to lowered service requirements. Win-win.

To me, the above would make SOOOO much more sense than what Disney actually did even if I, personally, still wouldn't like it.

EDITED TO ADD: My answer to the inevitable question of, "Do I think Disney doesn't know what they're doing?" And that answer is, generally no, but in this case, yeah kinda'. I say that because my guess, and it's just an educated hunch, is that their financial projections when approving this project wildly overestimated the value of the metadata they are now collecting on customers. This guess comes seeing many, MANY companies, investors and industries in the current age of the Internet fall for wild over-exaggerations of the financial value of knowing everything about their customer and how it will lead to increased profits. While it definitely leads to increased knowledge and certainly has some value I think real-life use-cases across diverse fields, from Facebook to Whole Foods, is showing that minute customer tracking is not the windfall that was predicted. It is labor intensive to collect and sort the data mined, cost prohibitive to selectively curb your product and presentation to suit individual customer's styles and only marginally financially successful no matter how much time and money you throw. In real life usage targeted marketing has a much lower return on investment than in almost every model I've seen, across a wide range of use-cases.
 
Really? Where do you get that information? FP+ is new and not fully implemented yet.

I wrote that I "suspect" this. I base this, in part on several factors.

First, FP is an established feature that has traditionally been offered to all guests regardless of accommodations. If it made sense to offer it exclusively to onsite guests my belief is that Disney would have already done so. But as I said in another post, maybe that have calculated that they should change - so who knows?

Secondly, in the years before any mention of this change to FP, these boards were filled with people like yourself who expressed having an affinity for staying onsite. The reasons expressed ranged from the esoteric ("Magic," resort theming, "full immersion," etc.) to the practical/logical (transportation, dining plans, merchandise shipped to room, EMH, etc.).

But no matter why one chose to stay onsite before, the reason was not based on and advantage in access to FP. And I suspect it won't matter in the future. And I suspect Disney already knows this.

Maybe I'm wrong, and the new FP+ limit of 3 will result in a negative effect among onsiters that is greater than the effect of acing offsiters out of prior booking. Time will tell.

:)
 
I wrote that I "suspect" this. I base this, in part on several factors.

First, FP is an established feature that has traditionally been offered to all guests regardless of accommodations. If it made sense to offer it exclusively to onsite guests my belief is that Disney would have already done so. But as I said in another post, maybe that have calculated that they should change - so who knows?

Secondly, in the years before any mention of this change to FP, these boards were filled with people like yourself who expressed having an affinity for staying onsite. The reasons expressed ranged from the esoteric ("Magic," resort theming, "full immersion," etc.) to the practical/logical (transportation, dining plans, merchandise shipped to room, EMH, etc.).

But no matter why one chose to stay onsite before, the reason was not based on and advantage in access to FP. And I suspect it won't matter in the future. And I suspect Disney already knows this.

Maybe I'm wrong, and the new FP+ limit of 3 will result in a negative effect among onsiters that is greater than the effect of acing offsiters out of prior booking. Time will tell.

:)

But if EMH’s go away as some people suspect (they’ve already reduced the number of days it’s offered and the hours), then Disney may add something such as more FPs to entice onsite stays. Plus, it’s a perk that would cost Disney virtually nothing. AND they would save all the money associated with running the parks for the extra hours.
 
Honestly, I'm shocked that Disney didn't introduce, and even keep, FastPass+ as a on-site only perk. (And I'm someone who isn't a fan of Disney resorts.)

The per day guest numbers would have been much more manageable, even at peak times, allowing for tiered FastPasses per resort category (e.g. 3/day if you're at a Value, 4/day at a Moderate, 5/day at a Deluxe, perhaps even more if you're staying concierge), flexible park hopping even at launch, and addressing just about every other common complaint seen here all WITHOUT dramatically increasing standby wait times (since you're dealing with a smaller subset of guests) and even without needing to add FastPass+ to so many attractions.

I get that was done partially for crowd management, and to increase usage of so-called secondary attractions, but given attraction line re-dos, Cast Member re-training and other costs, coupled with the fact that they operated at high crowd levels without that sort of shifted management needed, for decades, I have a hard time buying that was the most critical reason. Literally needing more FastPass+ to feed to the masses was.

Yes, Disney needs off-site guests--last I heard anywhere from between 60-70% of people in the parks on any given day were staying off-property--but they also make substantially more, per-customer, from on-site guests. Given the precedent set by other parks, including Universal's Express Pass, and Disney's own logic that only half their guests utilized the previous incarnation of FastPass, turning FastPass+ into a resort-specific perk would hardly be beyond the pale. Especially if they had introduced it slowly (again, probably by resort category) and then gently phased out legacy FastPass.

Heck, given their monster resort room capacity compared to Universal's relatively meagre supply, "selling" FastPass+ wouldn't even have to come into it at all. Sure they COULD market it a for-cost system for day guests or APs, if they wanted to, but making it a resort-only perk would likely increase their occupancy even if they raised their rates, likely making it profitable to continue to expand their room inventory. And, yes, people buying "throwaway" rooms for a day or two of FastPass+ use would likely become common, just as it is now at Universal, which also wouldn't upset Disney one little bit. They get the revenue from a room without actually having any wear and tear on their property AND incur decreased employee costs, due to lowered service requirements. Win-win.

To me, the above would make SOOOO much more sense than what Disney actually did even if I, personally, still wouldn't like it.

EDITED TO ADD: My answer to the inevitable question of, "Do I think Disney doesn't know what they're doing?" And that answer is, generally no, but in this case, yeah kinda'. I say that because my guess, and it's just an educated hunch, is that their financial projections when approving this project wildly overestimated the value of the metadata they are now collecting on customers. This guess comes seeing many, MANY companies, investors and industries in the current age of the Internet fall for wild over-exaggerations of the financial value of knowing everything about their customer and how it will lead to increased profits. While it definitely leads to increased knowledge and certainly has some value I think real-life use-cases across diverse fields, from Facebook to Whole Foods, is showing that minute customer tracking is not the windfall that was predicted. It is labor intensive to collect and sort the data mined, cost prohibitive to selectively curb your product and presentation to suit individual customer's styles and only marginally financially successful no matter how much time and money you throw. In real life usage targeted marketing has a much lower return on investment than in almost every model I've seen, across a wide range of use-cases.

If you look at FP+ as a stand alone product, and if you accept that the current iteration is the final one, it does not make much sense.

The limit will go away at some point after fully implemented and hard numbers come in. I predict same-day FPs will be readily available and guest who exhaust their initial 3 will be able to pull additional FPs.

FP+ is just a small part of Disney's data mining goal. Years from now when characters on screen are addressing your kid by name, age and hometown, and you're receiving ADR offers at the precise moment your stomach growls, we'll forget all about a clunky roll out.
 
I wrote that I "suspect" this. I base this, in part on several factors.

First, FP is an established feature that has traditionally been offered to all guests regardless of accommodations. If it made sense to offer it exclusively to onsite guests my belief is that Disney would have already done so. But as I said in another post, maybe that have calculated that they should change - so who knows?

Secondly, in the years before any mention of this change to FP, these boards were filled with people like yourself who expressed having an affinity for staying onsite. The reasons expressed ranged from the esoteric ("Magic," resort theming, "full immersion," etc.) to the practical/logical (transportation, dining plans, merchandise shipped to room, EMH, etc.).

But no matter why one chose to stay onsite before, the reason was not based on and advantage in access to FP. And I suspect it won't matter in the future. And I suspect Disney already knows this.

Maybe I'm wrong, and the new FP+ limit of 3 will result in a negative effect among onsiters that is greater than the effect of acing offsiters out of prior booking. Time will tell.

:)

I agree with your comment, there will be always be people who stay onsite for the reasons you mention and the FP changes won't matter. But I also think they have kicked the hornet's nest with this and there could be a negative effect with onsiters.

If they keep the 3 FP limit, I think some onsite people who used to get more FPs will feel dissatisfied with spending the same amount of money for what they perceive as a lesser experience than they had before.

People don't like that feeling. So then they will try to look for ways to make it better. Maybe stay offsite and save money that way. In other words, ok, fine, I'll go, but I'll pay less for what is a lesser experience.

Giving bonus FPs for onsite stays could help with that a bit. Even if it's only perception.
 


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