Disney "Money Grab" and the future of Universal

[tony67]

I don't get how Universl value proposal is that much better. We have always done Disney and Universal but we are done at Universal after 2 days and happily stay 2 weeks at disney

What works for you may not work for others - pretty much that simple.
There is no planning at Universal - just go and do what you want when you want
I prefer the bars and restaurants at Universal
You dont need a reservation - will Disney every change that?
There is not 2PM start time for park hopping - will Disney change that back.
This is a big frustration for many - especially locals who just want to pop over to a park of some sort.
Genie+ will work it self out I suspect so really too soon to comment too much on that

3-4 days at Disney every 5 or so years is more than enough for me.
I do two to three trips a year to Universal for over a week. Christmas, Mardia Gras and Halloween

What works for me - does not work for others - and that's fine.

 

[cfoxga]

I don't get how Universl value proposal is that much better. We have always done Disney and Universal but we are done at Universal after 2 days and happily stay 2 weeks at disney

If you are "done" with UO after two days and don't go multiple times per year, then I agree that Disney might be a better value for you. But if you enjoy everything UO has to offer like we do, things change quickly for multiple/longer stays. After 5 trips over the last 4 years, we now start to think of it as a "home away from home".

Our first trip was 4 nights at CB over Spring Break 2017. Even though it was crowded and we didn't have EPs, we avoided the crowds by hitting rope drop every morning, took a break in the afternoon, and then went back in the evening until close. It kinda felt like a Disney trip where we were tired at the end, but since we were used to that, we thought it was fantastic. We thought we did it all, but were we wrong!

Our second trip, we returned for Thanksgiving that year on the same APs. This time I learned about getting the APH rates for deluxe resorts early and we payed maybe an extra $100 per night at RPR vs CB. We truly learned what a relaxing theme park could be. Sleep in late, boat/walk to the parks, and skip most of the lines. We spent more time looking at all of the details in the various areas, eating at different restaurants, and even hitting the pool.

I couldn't understand how some people went to UO for 7+ days. I'd read schumgirl's excellent trip reports and wonder someone could spend multiple weeks at UO each year. But Thanksgiving 2020 changed things. We originally planned to do Sat-Wed at HRH, and then return home to have Thanksgiving with family. But we decided that we didn't want to risk exposing our parents to Covid, so we decided to do Sat-Sat with the last 3 nights at ESS. Knowing that we had an entire week really let us spread things out. The kids and I hit the parks every morning (we are ride junkies), but my wife skipped a couple of mornings to have some alone time. Even though the value resort was a big drop in quality (no EPs, bus to CityWalk instead of walking/boat, less comfortable beds), I'm glad we stayed the extra couple days. If we get a chance to do it again, I'd probably throw in a day at SeaWorld or Bush Gardens...

 

[C&Jx2]

We spend about a week at UOR, same as we do at WDW, however it is a much more laid back type trip. We don’t feel rushed or pressured to see and do everything we can. We work in plenty of pool and rest time, go at a nice relaxed pace, and can do anything we want more than once.

When we get home we don’t need a vacation from our vacation

 

[keishashadow]

There is no planning at Universal - just go and do what you want when you want

& I hope that vibe continues & they don’t fix what isn’t broken to earn a few bucks.

 

[Minniesgal]

If you are "done" with UO after two days and don't go multiple times per year, then I agree that Disney might be a better value for you. But if you enjoy everything UO has to offer like we do, things change quickly for multiple/longer stays. After 5 trips over the last 4 years, we now start to think of it as a "home away from home".

Our first trip was 4 nights at CB over Spring Break 2017. Even though it was crowded and we didn't have EPs, we avoided the crowds by hitting rope drop every morning, took a break in the afternoon, and then went back in the evening until close. It kinda felt like a Disney trip where we were tired at the end, but since we were used to that, we thought it was fantastic. We thought we did it all, but were we wrong!

Our second trip, we returned for Thanksgiving that year on the same APs. This time I learned about getting the APH rates for deluxe resorts early and we payed maybe an extra $100 per night at RPR vs CB. We truly learned what a relaxing theme park could be. Sleep in late, boat/walk to the parks, and skip most of the lines. We spent more time looking at all of the details in the various areas, eating at different restaurants, and even hitting the pool.

I couldn't understand how some people went to UO for 7+ days. I'd read schumgirl's excellent trip reports and wonder someone could spend multiple weeks at UO each year. But Thanksgiving 2020 changed things. We originally planned to do Sat-Wed at HRH, and then return home to have Thanksgiving with family. But we decided that we didn't want to risk exposing our parents to Covid, so we decided to do Sat-Sat with the last 3 nights at ESS. Knowing that we had an entire week really let us spread things out. The kids and I hit the parks every morning (we are ride junkies), but my wife skipped a couple of mornings to have some alone time. Even though the value resort was a big drop in quality (no EPs, bus to CityWalk instead of walking/boat, less comfortable beds), I'm glad we stayed the extra couple days. If we get a chance to do it again, I'd probably throw in a day at SeaWorld or Bush Gardens...

I get that some people spend more time there than us or enjoy it more tha; us but I still don’t see how it is cheaper or better value than Disney. It’s the ill do universal because disney is too expensive I don’t get. I get choosing universal because you prefer it it’s the perceived increased value over disney I’m struggling with

 

[lisam70]

I get that some people spend more time there than us or enjoy it more tha; us but I still don’t see how it is cheaper or better value than Disney. It’s the ill do universal because disney is too expensive I don’t get. I get choosing universal because you prefer it it’s the perceived increased value over disney I’m struggling with

One big thing is the cost of staying on property. Universal resorts are much cheaper than Disney even paying rack rate. And if you have an AP, which is only a few more dollars than multi-day tickets there are nice discounts. I just stayed in a suite at Cabana Bay that had two queen beds, a sitting area with sofa bed and kitchenette with sink, microwave and fridge and I paid around $120 a night. What can you get at Disney for that price? And if you stay deluxe you get unlimited express passes, again for waaaaay less than disney deluxe with little on-site perks.
The rest of my reasonings are subjective, yes I just prefer it over Disney. I think the rides are better, food quality is better and I much prefer the lack of planning.

 

[mom2rtk]

I get that some people spend more time there than us or enjoy it more tha; us but I still don’t see how it is cheaper or better value than Disney. It’s the ill do universal because disney is too expensive I don’t get. I get choosing universal because you prefer it it’s the perceived increased value over disney I’m struggling with

Much cheaper APs. Ability to get free Express Pass with a $350 room (maybe even cheaper if you get one of those cheaper APs).

If you're comparing the price of a single day or two ticket, it's not much cheaper. But adding the Express Pass is a huge game changer and adds great value. You also have to really like Harry Potter for the "love it" calculus to work. I actually set out during the pandemic to immerse myself into it for the first time and it's really paid off for me. I can now love those parks. And my daughter (the big Harry Potter fan here) is glad I did.

 

[tony67]

I get that some people spend more time there than us or enjoy it more tha; us but I still don’t see how it is cheaper or better value than Disney. It’s the ill do universal because disney is too expensive I don’t get. I get choosing universal because you prefer it it’s the perceived increased value over disney I’m struggling with

If your only doing one trip per year costs are pretty close unless you plan it.
If you have an AP and do more than one trip UO gets a lot less expensive - it is that simple.
APs are not that much more than 3 or 4 day tickets.
With a little effort that one trip a year can be on one AP two years - just adjust the date the second year to a week or so earlier - I've done that many times. No way would I pay 1299 for an AP that will not let me in every day unless I have a reservation.

Even with one trip AP saves a lot of money - for example in September RPR was 179 a night and includes express pass. That is about what you would pay for POP at Disney.

RPR is pretty close to the POLY IMO and the POLY is far more expensive. In general Disney hotels are way overpriced for what you get. And yes I have stayed at the POLY including Club level with a view of the Castle.
I've stayed at all the Deluxe hotels at Disney bar the more recent ones - and non have really impressed me - especially for the cost.
CBR or Coronado were the best values a few years back - but even those have gone crazy price wise IMO.

Bottom line for me - when I go to Disney I feel like Micky has his hand in my pocket at all times and it is only getting worse.
I went back in September to see if it had gotten better - and IMO it has not.

 

[Skywalker3]

I do want to add, as much as we LOVE Universal, and 100 percent appreciate the value compared to Disney, when my son and his girlfriend were planning a few theme park days this past July, in Orlando, they could not fit 1 day at US into their budget. They were already staying in very reasonably priced airbnb, so didn't plan/want to stay on site. They priced out 1 day park to park tickets, and at first seemed do-able, but to add express, it was well over $200 EACH ( I'm pretty sure close to 300.) I tried to talk them into 1 night at a premiere, but w no AP rate, and looking w/in a month of dates, rates were all in the high 500s, and they already had lodging. So, they ended up not doing Universal this time. It did get very cost prohibitive for a 1 day experience. It was the surge/high costs of the express passes that surprised us all. i thought they stayed around 100/day but definitely not in the summer/popular times. They did 2 days at Disney, and had a blast, but really hoped for US. they'll go back another time, and hopefully do some pre-planning to have time to look for better rates, etc.

 

[mom2rtk]

I do want to add, as much as we LOVE Universal, and 100 percent appreciate the value compared to Disney, when my son and his girlfriend were planning a few theme park days this past July, in Orlando, they could not fit 1 day at US into their budget. They were already staying in very reasonably priced airbnb, so didn't plan/want to stay on site. They priced out 1 day park to park tickets, and at first seemed do-able, but to add express, it was well over $200 EACH ( I'm pretty sure close to 300.) I tried to talk them into 1 night at a premiere, but w no AP rate, and looking w/in a month of dates, rates were all in the high 500s, and they already had lodging. So, they ended up not doing Universal this time. It did get very cost prohibitive for a 1 day experience. It was the surge/high costs of the express passes that surprised us all. i thought they stayed around 100/day but definitely not in the summer/popular times. They did 2 days at Disney, and had a blast, but really hoped for US. they'll go back another time, and hopefully do some pre-planning to have time to look for better rates, etc.

Yeah for a one or two day stop it’s not cheap. I suspect it’s to capitalize on people coming in for Disney and tacking on a day or two. Park to park is definitely expensive but so is park hopping at Disney. We had to miss doing Hogwarts on our visit this summer because I was too cheap to pay for the park to park option at Universal.

The value goes up substantially as you add more days at Universal. I suppose because their goal is to lure people away from Disney rather than being just a one day add-on.

 

[tony67]

I do want to add, as much as we LOVE Universal, and 100 percent appreciate the value compared to Disney, when my son and his girlfriend were planning a few theme park days this past July, in Orlando, they could not fit 1 day at US into their budget. They were already staying in very reasonably priced airbnb, so didn't plan/want to stay on site. They priced out 1 day park to park tickets, and at first seemed do-able, but to add express, it was well over $200 EACH ( I'm pretty sure close to 300.) I tried to talk them into 1 night at a premiere, but w no AP rate, and looking w/in a month of dates, rates were all in the high 500s, and they already had lodging. So, they ended up not doing Universal this time. It did get very cost prohibitive for a 1 day experience. It was the surge/high costs of the express passes that surprised us all. i thought they stayed around 100/day but definitely not in the summer/popular times. They did 2 days at Disney, and had a blast, but really hoped for US. they'll go back another time, and hopefully do some pre-planning to have time to look for better rates, etc.

Yup - it is - no different if you want to do 1 or 2 days at Disney.
2 nights at Disney and a three day hopper is at least $800 - that was staying at the Swan\Dolphin with a good rate - they ticket was $400

At both parks as you add more days cost goes down - they want you to stay on property as long as possible so they make it more attractive

 

[BigFoote]

If your only doing one trip per year costs are pretty close unless you plan it.
If you have an AP and do more than one trip UO gets a lot less expensive - it is that simple.
APs are not that much more than 3 or 4 day tickets.
With a little effort that one trip a year can be on one AP two years - just adjust the date the second year to a week or so earlier - I've done that many times. No way would I pay 1299 for an AP that will not let me in every day unless I have a reservation.

Even with one trip AP saves a lot of money - for example in September RPR was 179 a night and includes express pass. That is about what you would pay for POP at Disney.

RPR is pretty close to the POLY IMO and the POLY is far more expensive. In general Disney hotels are way overpriced for what you get. And yes I have stayed at the POLY including Club level with a view of the Castle.
I've stayed at all the Deluxe hotels at Disney bar the more recent ones - and non have really impressed me - especially for the cost.
CBR or Coronado were the best values a few years back - but even those have gone crazy price wise IMO.

Bottom line for me - when I go to Disney I feel like Micky has his hand in my pocket at all times and it is only getting worse.
I went back in September to see if it had gotten better - and IMO it has not.

I pretty much agree with you on most of this although probably not fair for me to comment since I'm a recent local and can now enjoy the good and bad of both parks ( we have AP's for both parks). When we traveled though we usually did Disney but started adding Universal towards the end of our "non-residency" status. Universal has come a long way and frankly seems to value their AP's better than Disney(at least for now) and some of the other things you mention. As I said however, now I can experience both when I want so I don't have to choose. Frankly my wife loves Universal and I'm more Disney. Universal adding the other park (EPIC Universe) will also help them tremendously with the longer stay crowd.

 

[kbelle8995]

I pretty much agree with you on most of this although probably not fair for me to comment since I'm a recent local and can now enjoy the good and bad of both parks ( we have AP's for both parks). When we traveled though we usually did Disney but started adding Universal towards the end of our "non-residency" status. Universal has come a long way and frankly seems to value their AP's better than Disney(at least for now) and some of the other things you mention. As I said however, now I can experience both when I want so I don't have to choose. Frankly my wife loves Universal and I'm more Disney. Universal adding the other park (EPIC Universe) will also help them tremendously with the longer stay crowd.

Thank you yes, When I got my ap at Universal I was pricing it against a after four Epcot pass. For the same price I could get a good ap with no blockage dates. Universal gives it's AP holders appreciations days. Extra months sometimes when you renew. Disney not so much. I've heard Disney fans tell me so many times that an AP holder I don't matter, we are replacable. What other business would do that. Plus I just find Universal more relaxing, Magic is what you make it.

 

[BigFoote]

Thank you yes, When I got my ap at Universal I was pricing it against a after four Epcot pass. For the same price I could get a good ap with no blockage dates. Universal gives it's AP holders appreciations days. Extra months sometimes when you renew. Disney not so much. I've heard Disney fans tell me so many times that an AP holder I doesn't matter, we are replacable. What other business would do that. Plus I just find Universal more relaxing, Magic is what you make it.

Indeed. We have the Universal Premier which gives so much additional benefit at a much lower cost it's not even a comparison to our Disney Silver Pass(which we'll change to Pirate Pass on renewal time). The biggest downfall, at least for me, when comparing is I think the food is better, in general, at Disney. I think Universal has some great places but their good ones vs bad ones seems to lean more towards the bad. I guess you could argue that's because Disney has more in general but I wish they'd elevate some of those places more. Then again food is sooo subjective but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
BTW: I read that one of the new rides in Tokyo was created based on fan feedback of too much 3d screen viewing so they mixed it up more with animitronics I believe, basically them listening to what fans wanted.

 

[keishashadow]

Many valid points above.

Hotels = with U AP discount, it’s a given that their rates (especially for deluxe properties that include EP) are often half the price of Disney’s discounted (even AP) rates per night. I’m still in shock seeing AP discount rates @ D for what I’d consider non-peak nights @ a value pushing $300.

Tickets = Disney is surely challenging the market, apparently a starving one with so many people eager to travel. as it’s been heading for the last 20 years, D will continue to slowly push it to the maximum & then some.

At this point with their pricing structure, it appears D is targeting new blood/those who only visit once every few years. If we didn’t have multiple DVCs & heavily discounted APs, not sure how we would roll going forward.

U encourages otherwise one-time guests to upgrade to an AP for a few bucks more, in order to squeeze another visit out of their base APs.

Common for the parks to follow each other as to ticket increases (especially APs) This, up until D rolled out the different daily pricing methodology.

appears U is shooting for volume into the parks at this point. Once their gate metrics reach a certain, stable level, they’d be foolish to not start raising the prices on their APs. Not to D levels but, theit pricing is surely going to increase sooner vs later.

 

[BigFoote]

Many valid points above.

Hotels = with U AP discount, it’s a given that their rates (especially for deluxe properties that include EP) are often half the price of Disney’s discounted (even AP) rates per night. I’m still in shock seeing AP discount rates @ D for what I’d consider non-peak nights @ a value pushing $300.

Tickets = Disney is surely challenging the market, apparently a starving one with so many people eager to travel. as it’s been heading for the last 20 years, D will continue to slowly push it to the maximum & then some.

At this point with their pricing structure, it appears D is targeting new blood/those who only visit once every few years. If we didn’t have multiple DVCs & heavily discounted APs, not sure how we would roll going forward.

U encourages otherwise one-time guests to upgrade to an AP for a few bucks more, in order to squeeze another visit out of their base APs.

Common for the parks to follow each other as to ticket increases (especially APs) This, up until D rolled out the different daily pricing methodology.

appears U is shooting for volume into the parks at this point. Once their gate metrics reach a certain, stable level, they’d be foolish to not start raising the prices on their APs. Not to D levels but, theit pricing is surely going to increase sooner vs later.

I generally agree although I'd add the benefits of a Universal AP are superior to Disney which helps that incentive you spoke of...i.e. kind of the icing on the cake to push the sale(even though an out of towner may not use some of them), especially for someone on the fence. I agree their pricing will go up but until the 3rd park I'm not sure increase drastically until they do that added to your criteria. This, I believe will take some away from the target market you indicate and will solidify things more with Universal. I'm still flipping on that just because of perception people may have of the 3rd park due to location of it. It's basically across I-4 and even though they'll likely have transportation the perception may be your "not in the Universal bubble". People still stay at Animal Kingdom lodge and it's "a hike" by bus to say Disney springs but the perception is that your still within the bubble(even though parts of Osceola Parkway and Buena Vista Drive can get gridlocked with traffic within that route).

 

[tony67]

I generally agree although I'd add the benefits of a Universal AP are superior to Disney which helps that incentive you spoke of...i.e. kind of the icing on the cake to push the sale(even though an out of towner may not use some of them), especially for someone on the fence. I agree their pricing will go up but until the 3rd park I'm not sure increase drastically until they do that added to your criteria. This, I believe will take some away from the target market you indicate and will solidify things more with Universal. I'm still flipping on that just because of perception people may have of the 3rd park due to location of it. It's basically across I-4 and even though they'll likely have transportation the perception may be your "not in the Universal bubble". People still stay at Animal Kingdom lodge and it's "a hike" by bus to say Disney springs but the perception is that your still within the bubble(even though parts of Osceola Parkway and Buena Vista Drive can get gridlocked with traffic within that route).

Yeah AK/AKL is probably a good comparison to me it seems way out there and a hassle - in some way may as well be off site.

As for Epic - its a ways away (years) - and with the private bus lanes it might not be too bad - assuming they get the Kirkman road work done.

I plan to stay at Epic and then Universal and avoid that bus for the most part - but we will see how it plays out.

Also what will the 4 park pass cost and what options will they have - too many and it will get confusing - too expensive and it gets into Disney territory. 2 park, 3 park 4 park? or does the waterpark become a + option on a two or three park?

 

[maverik85]

Yeah AK/AKL is probably a good comparison to me it seems way out there and a hassle - in some way may as well be off site.

As for Epic - its a ways away (years) - and with the private bus lanes it might not be too bad - assuming they get the Kirkman road work done.

I plan to stay at Epic and then Universal and avoid that bus for the most part - but we will see how it plays out.

Also what will the 4 park pass cost and what options will they have - too many and it will get confusing - too expensive and it gets into Disney territory. 2 park, 3 park 4 park? or does the waterpark become a + option on a two or three park?

I'm curious to see how the ticketing options will be as well once Epic Universe opens. It could become very confusing with options for 1-4 park tickets. I could see it become more of a Disney style with just simple single or multi park tickets, with the waterpark a separate ticket or add on to other multiday ticket options. Think that would be the simplest route to go, but a wider variety, while more confusing for guests looking, allows for more price structuring.

 

[BigFoote]

Yeah AK/AKL is probably a good comparison to me it seems way out there and a hassle - in some way may as well be off site.

As for Epic - its a ways away (years) - and with the private bus lanes it might not be too bad - assuming they get the Kirkman road work done.

I plan to stay at Epic and then Universal and avoid that bus for the most part - but we will see how it plays out.

Also what will the 4 park pass cost and what options will they have - too many and it will get confusing - too expensive and it gets into Disney territory. 2 park, 3 park 4 park? or does the waterpark become a + option on a two or three park?

Agreed, especially the last part. I think the increases and approaching Disney prices will depend on how much they get out of the "every few year crowd" as you mention and if that helps reach that gate levels you suggest. Having said that I do believe EPIC will force them to have a much larger increase than normal. Last I looked a projected date is still TBA. Heading up that direction Saturday and going to see how the land development is going.

 

[cfoxga]

I get that some people spend more time there than us or enjoy it more tha; us but I still don’t see how it is cheaper or better value than Disney. It’s the ill do universal because disney is too expensive I don’t get. I get choosing universal because you prefer it it’s the perceived increased value over disney I’m struggling with

Everyone has there own idea of value and views on what the parks have to offer. If you see Universal experience as a bunch of rides/restaurants that you can do in a couple days, then Disney will likely be a better value to you. You pay a premium for the UO tickets (especially for ala carte EPs) and the resorts, so it seems more expensive than Disney for less content. I can't imagine planning an entire trip to Orlando for just that, so I'd say the value is pretty low in that case.

When you do longer/multiple stays, then Universal's value really kicks in. When you get to 3+ days at UO, then APs are not much more expensive. The APH rates cut deluxe resort price almost in half, typically run from $175 in the offseason to $300 during peak season for a standard room. Considering the value of the EPs, the actual cost of the room for a family of 4 or 5 is even better.

As the planner for our trips, I find Universal way better than Disney. For all of our trips, I would book an APH rate for our room and then I was done. No restaurant planning, no ride planning. Just show up and go with the flow. With EPs from the deluxe resorts we could sleep in, ride everything we wanted as many times as we wanted, and spend more times enjoying the details of the parks instead of standing in lines, and not have to use our car or ride a bus. Our trips have been incredibly relaxing, especially now that we know things so well there. For Disney, we always had a tight schedule of what park to do each day, what rides we would do, and where we would eat.

We always enjoyed our Disney trips, but we were exhausted at the end of each one. IMO, there is just too much to do at WDW and it is too spread out. I think I enjoyed DL more because of the compact feel, being able to walk to both parks from the resort. I rank it slightly behind UO, mainly because we can drive to Orlando.