Disney is still the KING!!! Attendance at MK up by 6%!!!!!

One thing that makes me an oddball here is, though I would be OK if DHS went with a Starwars Land I think I would prefer something more Pixar based. I know Star Wars has a very adoring base but to me the problem at DHS is the reason TSMM is the toughest FP or wait time ride at Disney. What is there for the entire family at the park? Star Wars could meet this need but to me the options around Pixar are endless. Cars, Monster's, Incredibles, etc. Any could be based more on the entire family taking pressure off of TSMM and giving them a very much needed extra attraction or two to up individuals going through the gate. LAst time we went it was the one park that DW said she would be OK not going back to. Nothing bad about it just not really much to do.

My wife is also not a fan of DHS...it's an easy fourth choice for her at WDW (and possibly lower, if you count the water parks!). To me, it's in my top two in a close battle with MK. There is room at DHS for folks in both of these camps (SW and Pixar) to be very happy, assuming they are willing to uproot some other things like Backlot Tour and LMA Stunt Show, both of which have been rumored to go for a while now. Between those two things, plus the Sounds Dangerous and American Idol theaters (going underutilized or wasting space, respectively...maybe I'm alone in that thought) there is so much room to work with for a couple of new SW attractions (one of which rumored would be a spinner but where you can "shoot" at the tie-fighter or x-wing fighter in front of you...sort of a cross between Buzz and Dumbo....and another of which is rumored to be a speeder bike simulator) as well as a conversion of BE to a Mos Eisley Cantina. Blow out the SW store, and bingo-bongo-bango, free money.

Pixar Land could then bust out toward what is now Backlot Tour and create the oft-rumored Monsters door coaster, Radiator Springs Racers (if they want to bring that across the country), a stand-up coaster with an Incredibles theme (envison Dash "running," Frozone "surfing" or Syndrome "flying" in his rocket shoes...maybe with each ride vehicle alternating among these, giving a theoretical reason to ride multiple times in one visit), and formally/finally convert Honey I Shrunk the Kids playground to a Bug's Life theming (which would basically consist of changing the sign!). Could also put in the Ratatouille ride from Paris (unless want to add it to France in Epcot, which might be a better fit). Create a huge Pixar store, and again, the money would print itself.

Frankly, several of these attractions could be made family-friendly (just as 7DMT is a family-friendly "coaster" rather than a true thrill ride) and satisfy your legitimate note of a need for more family stuff at DHS.

Just please....please....please do something at DHS! There is ridiculous potential there, just in these two franchises alone, including a couple of rides (RSR and Rat.) that already exist elsewhere and could, theoretically, be re-created relatively quickly. I'd rather have something original and new (living in my dream world that I'll be able to visit those other parks around the world someday!), but I'll take a regurgitation of an existing ride if it means actually seeing something done. I have seen other commenters on other threads say that Disney is intentionally not growing DHS, as it is a feeder into Epcot and DTD. It boggles my mind that this park has so much untapped potential and, even as rumors have floated the last few years, absolutely nothing seems to be done about it. Even the addition of just two or three new attractions based on one or both of SW or Pixar would easily take DHS out of the ill-fated "half-day park" descriptor...add half a dozen new things, and DHS significantly slows down the Harry Potter machine. I don't think people are adding days to their Orlando vacations, but they are certainly hopping down the road to Universal for more of those same vacation days than they did a few years ago. The 14% jump shows that (see, I knew I could bring this back to the chart).
 
For my honey and I hands down, if we can only go to ONE. SINGLE. PARK in the entire Orlando area for one day, it's DHS. THAT is our park!

And bring on the thrills, it needs more if possible, just look at RnRc waits. All the teens that don't happen to already be at Space Mountain go to HS.

Agree that BackLot needs to be refreshed. And WHAT. THE. HECK is that Pirates experience?!?! That was THE BIGGEST let down of the day, and we waited the longest for it. A room where lights move around and a projected skeleton tells the kids to stomp their feet?! I thought for sure we were going to get to the actual attraction after that silly pre-show. Unfortunately, THAT was the 'attraction'. I still have belief in my heart that they are doing something with that building and working on it presently, and so the one-room pirates thing is just for now...please someone who knows, tell me I'm right!
 
What about annual passholders?

See? That is the point. We just don't know. Maybe APs account for a mere roundng error in all of this. Maybe not. Josh from easywdw might turn the turnstiles at Disney parks 1,000 times a year compared to a family of 4 on vacation who might go to US and turn those turnstiles 20 times (4 people x 5 admissions each). So Disney is the big winner because 1,000>20. But it is possible that the family of 4 staying at Portofino Bay and eating all meals at US properties is putting more money into US's coffers than Josh is putting into Disney's. It is impossible to reach any firm conclusions from the limited data that we are provided, other than to say that there are more people visiting Central Florida than ever before. Some of those people arrive intending to visit both WDW and US. Some might focus on one and spill over to the other. And some might visit one to the exclusion of the other. But the percentage rise and fall of turnstile attendance really tells us more about where we were than where we are headed. If 5,000 people visited "Xanadu: House of the Future" in Kissimmee in year one and 10,000 visited in year two, that 100% increase in attendance would look good on paper but wouldn't scare Disney and its measly 6% increase.
 
Going to Hollywood Studios after Star Wars Weekends depresses the hell out of me. When the last week is over, I doubt I'll go back until the Osborne Lights go up. So much wasted potential. :(
 

And WHAT. THE. HECK is that Pirates experience?!?! ... I still have belief in my heart that they are doing something with that building and working on it presently, and so the one-room pirates thing is just for now...please someone who knows, tell me I'm right!

I haven't even seen that one yet, but I remember my extreme let-down when it had a Narnia/Prince Caspian theme. I love the book series and the movies were even OK, but that attraction in DHS was pathetic and apparently very similar in pathetic-ness to the pirate version! Pixar Land could certainly spread in that direction, too, and take over that building...maybe a quick-service place focusing on potatoes (unique fries, baked potato bar, etc.), sponsored by Mr. Potato Head - ha! If I keep ignoring my real work for another couple of hours today, I'll have DHS totally refurbished!
 
For my honey and I hands down, if we can only go to ONE. SINGLE. PARK in the entire Orlando area for one day, it's DHS. THAT is our park!

And bring on the thrills, it needs more if possible, just look at RnRc waits. All the teens that don't happen to already be at Space Mountain go to HS.

Agree that BackLot needs to be refreshed. And WHAT. THE. HECK is that Pirates experience?!?! That was THE BIGGEST let down of the day, and we waited the longest for it. A room where lights move around and a projected skeleton tells the kids to stomp their feet?! I thought for sure we were going to get to the actual attraction after that silly pre-show. Unfortunately, THAT was the 'attraction'. I still have belief in my heart that they are doing something with that building and working on it presently, and so the one-room pirates thing is just for now...please someone who knows, tell me I'm right!

Also what is in, what appear to be an entrance to a movie theater right down from TSMM? Is the ride itself in there? If not there is tons of space for an attraction.
Oh before the Pirate they had a similar thing using Chronicales of Narnia. I had the same feeling afterwards. IT is like they are holding back for something but it has been at least 8 years.
I don't want people on here to think I do not like DHS. Far from it. I do believe they need to add a couple more things to get it closer to a full day park. I also believe it needs to be something that the entire family can do. TSMM is a very good ride but place it at say MK and I believe the wait times become closer to Buzz. The problem for it at DHS is it is the about the only ride for the entire family.
 
Disney's Hollywood Studios and Disney's Animal Kingdom have finally crossed over the 10,000,000 visitor mark......well, it's about time!! :woohoo:

I'm not greeting any news of increases in attendance to Disney Parks Orlando as news to celebrate or get excited about. All this accomplishes is further cement the mailaise that is festering in the swamps of Reedy Creek. TDO will be further encouraged to neglect the "crown jewel" of all amusement resorts.

Spend 4 years putting in 2 rides (while taking out one), a restaurant, a gift shop, and some themed restrooms and BAM! - 6% boost to a park already struggling with guest satisfaction due to overall lack of capacity.

No need to put in CarsLand in Hollywood Studios if the turnstiles are still spinning if we get 2% more guests by doing nothing other than being close to the Magic Kingdom. Forget about getting Star Wars land into the resort in a timely manner, we can coast for a few more years on New Fantasyland's coat tails.

Who needs Pandora finished anytime in the near future, since we've already proven that we can take 4 years on adding two rides (hopefully), a couple of restaurants, gift shops, and hopefully unobtainum lined floating toilets in restrooms that aren't themed with the noxious gases that the natives of Pandora don't mind. 2% for you Animal Kingdom. You and the Disco Yeti can take another 3 years off (or 2 if you count Rivers of Light as something to celebrate resort wide).

Oh and our beloved EPCOT... well, we still love you no matter how much of your soul is stolen from your carcass. Here's a 1.5% boost to get you by until you can reap the benefits of Shanghai and Anaheim wanting a plus to Soarin'. Don't worry you'll get your 25% boost in attendance with Malestrom's Frozen quick/cheap makeover opens up in a rush.

Sorry for the heavy dose of sarcasm lined truth; but, ALL OF US are the problem with Orlando. We keep feeding the beast that is the source of apathy and all we get to show for it is a braclet that helps manage the source of the problem - not enough capacity at the resort in terms of rides and attractions to combat the ever increasing attendance.

The old expression was "if you build it they will come". TDO understands this to be "we built it (past tense), and they are still coming".

Comcast - please keep doing what you are doing in Orlando and hopefully, people will catch on and book a few nights at your property and maybe that will give TDO the wakeup call that they deserve.

BTW - it's good to see Anaheim doing so well. In particular, DCA. They are still having to turn business away at Disneyland because they actually care about keeping the quality of guest visits high (limiting the number of consecutive day tickets, stopping sales on certain annual pass types, participating in the SoCal pass that includes tickets to Universal and Sea World).
 
/
Looking at the data here is what I see.
President of WDW is happy (got a bonus). NFL got the boost desired. Still has Concerns. EPCOT, AK and HS are doing OK but are a little stagnant. We can debate Avatarland being the right fit but at the end of the day does address AK concerns. Still have EPCOT and DHS issues to discuss. Individuals in charge of those 3 parks are safe for now but but will be expected to look forward a little more.President of Universal Parks in FL is happy (got a bonus). Are getting the desired results from expansions and should get future boost in Park that only held its own this year.
President of all Disney Parks is very happy (big bonus). Is promising the firstborn to the individual that made the decision to expand in Asia. All Disney parks in Asia have extraordinary numbers.
Iger will get to retire on his own terms. Expansion in Asia, North America Parks holding their own, other moves during his tenure for Disney as a whole keeps his planned retirement date safe. Will have leverage at that time for a Board position or asks to stay a little longer.
This is not a like or Dislike any of these executives, this is the conclusion the board and stockholders (the individuals they answer to) will reach at the Annual stockholder meeting.

Wasn't there just a leadership change at Epcot? I never experienced Epcot during the "glory days" but I would love to see something done with the Imagination and the old Wonders of Life pavilions.


One thing that makes me an oddball here is, though I would be OK if DHS went with a Starwars Land I think I would prefer something more Pixar based. I know Star Wars has a very adoring base but to me the problem at DHS is the reason TSMM is the toughest FP or wait time ride at Disney. What is there for the entire family at the park? Star Wars could meet this need but to me the options around Pixar are endless. Cars, Monster's, Incredibles, etc. Any could be based more on the entire family taking pressure off of TSMM and giving them a very much needed extra attraction or two to up individuals going through the gate. LAst time we went it was the one park that DW said she would be OK not going back to. Nothing bad about it just not really much to do.

If we had to skip a park, it would definitely be DHS.

There is room at DHS for folks in both of these camps (SW and Pixar) to be very happy, assuming they are willing to uproot some other things like Backlot Tour and LMA Stunt Show, both of which have been rumored to go for a while now. Between those two things, plus the Sounds Dangerous and American Idol theaters (going underutilized or wasting space, respectively...maybe I'm alone in that thought) there is so much room to work with for a couple of new SW attractions (one of which rumored would be a spinner but where you can "shoot" at the tie-fighter or x-wing fighter in front of you...sort of a cross between Buzz and Dumbo....and another of which is rumored to be a speeder bike simulator) as well as a conversion of BE to a Mos Eisley Cantina. Blow out the SW store, and bingo-bongo-bango, free money.

Pixar Land could then bust out toward what is now Backlot Tour and create the oft-rumored Monsters door coaster, Radiator Springs Racers (if they want to bring that across the country), a stand-up coaster with an Incredibles theme (envison Dash "running," Frozone "surfing" or Syndrome "flying" in his rocket shoes...maybe with each ride vehicle alternating among these, giving a theoretical reason to ride multiple times in one visit), and formally/finally convert Honey I Shrunk the Kids playground to a Bug's Life theming (which would basically consist of changing the sign!). Could also put in the Ratatouille ride from Paris (unless want to add it to France in Epcot, which might be a better fit). Create a huge Pixar store, and again, the money would print itself.

I think a Pixar Place expansion would fit better at DHS. It could easily be added to the backlot area. (Wasn't there talk about a Monsters Inc coaster?)While I think that Star Wars would bring in a lot of people, but I would rather see it as a separate park. Partially because I am concerned that they would tear out sections of Echo Lake if they added Star Wars to DHS and I think that would ruin some of the theming. I would rather see them use the American Idol theatre for something like DCA's Aladdin show.

I'm not greeting any news of increases in attendance to Disney Parks Orlando as news to celebrate or get excited about. All this accomplishes is further cement the mailaise that is festering in the swamps of Reedy Creek. TDO will be further encouraged to neglect the "crown jewel" of all amusement resorts.

Spend 4 years putting in 2 rides (while taking out one), a restaurant, a gift shop, and some themed restrooms and BAM! - 6% boost to a park already struggling with guest satisfaction due to overall lack of capacity.

No need to put in CarsLand in Hollywood Studios if the turnstiles are still spinning if we get 2% more guests by doing nothing other than being close to the Magic Kingdom. Forget about getting Star Wars land into the resort in a timely manner, we can coast for a few more years on New Fantasyland's coat tails.

Who needs Pandora finished anytime in the near future, since we've already proven that we can take 4 years on adding two rides (hopefully), a couple of restaurants, gift shops, and hopefully unobtainum lined floating toilets in restrooms that aren't themed with the noxious gases that the natives of Pandora don't mind. 2% for you Animal Kingdom. You and the Disco Yeti can take another 3 years off (or 2 if you count Rivers of Light as something to celebrate resort wide).

Oh and our beloved EPCOT... well, we still love you no matter how much of your soul is stolen from your carcass. Here's a 1.5% boost to get you by until you can reap the benefits of Shanghai and Anaheim wanting a plus to Soarin'. Don't worry you'll get your 25% boost in attendance with Malestrom's Frozen quick/cheap makeover opens up in a rush.

Sorry for the heavy dose of sarcasm lined truth; but, ALL OF US are the problem with Orlando. We keep feeding the beast that is the source of apathy and all we get to show for it is a braclet that helps manage the source of the problem - not enough capacity at the resort in terms of rides and attractions to combat the ever increasing attendance.

I agree that TDO should be wondering why all those extra people coming to visit MK are not visiting my other parks. And honestly, I'm surprised that an unfinished FLE led to 6% increase in attendance at MK (maybe it was all those extra people they were able to admit over Christmas vacation. :confused3 ) But as much as I would love to see the Yeti move. I can understand why they haven't fixed it. They would have to take the ride down for an extended period of time. It would cost a lot of money and it's not going to lead to an increase in attendance. No one is going to book a trip just to see the Yeti move, especially the average Disney guest.
 
Wasn't there just a leadership change at Epcot? I never experienced Epcot during the "glory days" but I would love to see something done with the Imagination and the old Wonders of Life pavilions.


I agree that TDO should be wondering why all those extra people coming to visit MK are not visiting my other parks. And honestly, I'm surprised that an unfinished FLE led to 6% increase in attendance at MK (maybe it was all those extra people they were able to admit over Christmas vacation. :confused3 ) But as much as I would love to see the Yeti move. I can understand why they haven't fixed it. They would have to take the ride down for an extended period of time. It would cost a lot of money and it's not going to lead to an increase in attendance. No one is going to book a trip just to see the Yeti move, especially the average Disney guest.

Agreed about Epcot. They really should ramp up their Christmas decorations too. Miss the Lights of Wonder show.

I am always amazed at the number of people that stop and watch the minature train in Germany and that isn't even a very good display. Maybe a large permant display that might draw people in. I'm not an enthusiast but I would enjoy walking around looking at other people's displays.

I was thinking, what would the other parks attendence be without MK? What if you had to purchase other parks seperately?
 
Whether Blackfish was 100% accurate or not, we won't be going. As a child I found Seaworld to be sort of off-putting as well. As an adult I have never spent money there and never will. I am sure Blackfish has a lot to do with falling sales, as well as the general turning of the tide towards things like small zoos/circuses/etc. I don't know many people who will frequent them anymore.

SeaWorld is an imaculate park. They just need to change their business model.

I do think that keeping a 12000 pound orca in a back pool that is only 20feet deep, needs to come to an end.

When i visited in march i finally understood it as an adult that i didnt get as a kid: the whales remain pretty much motionless then as soon as they see the trainers with the buckets of fish they swim round after them. The whales get fed after they do a trick.
That didnt sit well with me.

What did upset me was seeing a polar bear next to the beluga tank inside this dark and dingy cave. Does anyone know if the bear gets any fresh air or sees the outside world? Does he have any company?

SeaWorld still dont seem to be listening to peoples concerns.

Oh well. It up to them i guess.
 
I'm not greeting any news of increases in attendance to Disney Parks Orlando as news to celebrate or get excited about. All this accomplishes is further cement the mailaise that is festering in the swamps of Reedy Creek. TDO will be further encouraged to neglect the "crown jewel" of all amusement resorts.

Spend 4 years putting in 2 rides (while taking out one), a restaurant, a gift shop, and some themed restrooms and BAM! - 6% boost to a park already struggling with guest satisfaction due to overall lack of capacity.

No need to put in CarsLand in Hollywood Studios if the turnstiles are still spinning if we get 2% more guests by doing nothing other than being close to the Magic Kingdom. Forget about getting Star Wars land into the resort in a timely manner, we can coast for a few more years on New Fantasyland's coat tails.

Who needs Pandora finished anytime in the near future, since we've already proven that we can take 4 years on adding two rides (hopefully), a couple of restaurants, gift shops, and hopefully unobtainum lined floating toilets in restrooms that aren't themed with the noxious gases that the natives of Pandora don't mind. 2% for you Animal Kingdom. You and the Disco Yeti can take another 3 years off (or 2 if you count Rivers of Light as something to celebrate resort wide).

Oh and our beloved EPCOT... well, we still love you no matter how much of your soul is stolen from your carcass. Here's a 1.5% boost to get you by until you can reap the benefits of Shanghai and Anaheim wanting a plus to Soarin'. Don't worry you'll get your 25% boost in attendance with Malestrom's Frozen quick/cheap makeover opens up in a rush.

Sorry for the heavy dose of sarcasm lined truth; but, ALL OF US are the problem with Orlando. We keep feeding the beast that is the source of apathy and all we get to show for it is a braclet that helps manage the source of the problem - not enough capacity at the resort in terms of rides and attractions to combat the ever increasing attendance.

The old expression was "if you build it they will come". TDO understands this to be "we built it (past tense), and they are still coming".

Comcast - please keep doing what you are doing in Orlando and hopefully, people will catch on and book a few nights at your property and maybe that will give TDO the wakeup call that they deserve.

BTW - it's good to see Anaheim doing so well. In particular, DCA. They are still having to turn business away at Disneyland because they actually care about keeping the quality of guest visits high (limiting the number of consecutive day tickets, stopping sales on certain annual pass types, participating in the SoCal pass that includes tickets to Universal and Sea World).
I can see your point and I agree to a certain extent. It's just that a few folks around here act like if they don't like Disney anymore or FastPass+ or 7DMT and quit going that they're going to hurt Disney.....as you can see-they're not hurting Disney at all!!!!!! Nobody cares about what they think...honestly- people just laugh at them!! Disney is racing to build DVC right now----this is where the money is for them. Universal is building new rides......that's great but they are playing catch up. I'm thinking if Universal can keep building at this pace......Disney is prepared to engage in a real theme park war. But- before Disney does anything like that they want to have all the available DVC space established and in place. :thumbsup2
 
I can see your point and I agree to a certain extent. It's just that a few folks around here act like if they don't like Disney anymore or FastPass+ or 7DMT and quit going that they're going to hurt Disney.....as you can see-they're not hurting Disney at all!!!!!! Nobody cares about what they think...honestly- people just laugh at them!! Disney is racing to build DVC right now----this is where the money is for them. Universal is building new rides......that's great but they are playing catch up. I'm thinking if Universal can keep building at this pace......Disney is prepared to engage in a real theme park war. But- before Disney does anything like that they want to have all the available DVC space established and in place. :thumbsup2

Not to mention the new Star Wars movie with boost the popularity enough that it will be the silver bullet in the chamber if Disney ever needs it. Sorta like how Harry Potter made Universal relevant to even possibly be talked about competing with Disney.

I know I didn't extend my vacation 2 days for anything other than the fact Potter is there and we wanted to see it in case were not back for a few years. FYI that's after a 11 night Disney trip which we book back in Jan we just added universal this week and I moved the flight back.
 
DHS is my least favorite park among the six WDW and UOR parks. People lump it in with AK as a "Half day park" but at least AK is gorgeous and richly themed. How many people would go there if they didn't have multi day tickets I wonder.
 
Looking at one year is interesting, looking at several years is really interesting. Looking at the Theme Park attendance data I've been able to gather we get the following chart.



Unfortunately, I'm missing data for all of the parks. I'm missing individual park data for Disney from the 80's, the early years of USO in the early 90, and most of the data from Sea World.

From 1996-2002, MK, EPCOT, DHS, and USO saw declining attendance. DAK saw an initial spike in attendance in 1998 but the joined the downward trend. IOA saw a similar initial spike but was able to keep most of it's attendance during the period.

From 2003 - 2009 Something interesting happened, Disney started turning their attendance figures around while Universal continued to decline and IOA started declining and fast. So, the question becomes what happened during this time frame to cause the Disney's boat to start lifting while Universal's boat still sank. I've narrowed it down in my mind to 3 things.

First, aggressive discounting Discounting. The time frame saw the creation of Free Dining. In 2003 they offered book 4 nights get 3 nights free including tickets.

Second, Add to that, the creation of MYW ticketing in 2005. In 2004, extending a WDW ticket from 5 days to 7 days cost almost an extra $100. In 2005, under MYW going from 5 to 7 days cost $6. It was the original "lock it in". In 2004, $100 would almost get you 2 days at Universal. So your choice for that $100 was 2 days at Disney + water parks (going from 5-7 days required adding water parks at that time) or 2 days Universal.

Third First, Disneyland's 50th anniversary. In honor of Disneyland 50th, WDW got 3 attraction in short order. Soarin' at EPCOT, and Lights Motors Action at DHS in 2005 and Expidition Everest in DAK in 2006.

At Universal, there wasn't much happening. Ticket prices adjusted to try and compete with Disney. They started offering 7 day tickets for $85-$99. At IOA the only attraction they opened was the Sky High Seuss trolly train ride in 2006 that was supposed to be an opening day attraction. USF opened the Mummy, Shrek 4D, and Jimmy Neutron but all 3 were replacements for existing rides.

From 2010-12. Except for MK this year, WDW has been coasting along. The gains from the earlier period have held and growth has been 1-3% per year. At Universal the big thing that happened was Harry Potter. In 2009 WWOHP opened at IOA and in 2 years time it went from a dying park to one with record attendance. USF has stopped declining in attendance and is growing similar to WDW.

Putting 2013 in context to what came before. At Disney, MK saw significant growth primarily I assume to a full year stage 1 of New Fantasy Land. Epcot, DHS and DAK are still growing at about 2%. At Universal, USF saw significant gains in attendance with the addition of Transformers, Dispicable Me, and improved theming around the Simpson's ride. And this is despite the fact that WWOHP Diagon Alley is slated to open this year. IOA growth was inline with EPCOT, DHS, and DAK. The massive gains from 2010-2012 are holding.

Not to leave Seaworld out of the picture. They've been fairly steady. Up some one year, down some the next but the general trend was up from 1999-2009. 2010 saw a significant decline in attendance, probably attributable to WWOHP opening. Since then it's been fairly steady at that lower level.

The big question is what's going to happen in 2014-16?

When did Magical Express start? Another form of locking people in, a successful one. UOR needs to work on their transportation logistics from the airport.
 














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