Disney holding back FP+s for day-of

[ArwenMarie]

Thank you as always for the information!

Yes, thank you The Hub!

 

[CFioren317]

Don't know where this $10 ticket price comes from. Book 10 ala carte and it's $35 per day. Add 10 day to a room and it's $50 per day.

As for resort spending, SEC filing shows $257 per room, per night. That number needs to be divided by number of guests. It only represents non-park spending, not profit. Subtract reservations, desk staff, transportation, housekeeping, landscapers, maintenance, life guards, restaurant staff, wear and tear and it just doesn't seem that big.

Maybe I misread something.

Basically, what the poster is saying is that up to 4 days, it is $294 a ticket. After that, it is only $10 a day more to stay, up to 10 days...since the price increments by only $10 a day from day 5 onward. He wasn't taking the average of the 10 days as it wouldn't have made sense since he was talking about the advantage for a visitor staying longer. I believe his basic point is that Disney maxes out their profit on 3 and 4 day visitors and anybody who stays longer than that are getting into the parks for only $10 a day. Which makes sense from a certain point of view I guess.

But I do agree with your take using the average. 5 days at the parks is still $60 a day...even though day 4 was only $20 and day 5 was only $10. The biggest "sucker" would be the person who buys a 3-day pass...$274 for 3 days? Ouch. Even 4 days at $75 a day is a lot, but I guess if that's all you can swing as far as time off, then what can you do.

 

[lugnut33]

Disney may not get as much money from a frequent visitor or the AP holder, but over a longer period of time they will get more money. If you removed those two guests from the resorts and park then there would be no crowding problems. Trust me, I think Disney likes their money also.

Does Disney target first time visitors because they spend more money? Heck yes they do, but I don't believe they are willing to do it at the expense of the AP holders and frequent visitors. All they need to do is look west to Disneyland to see how important it is to have as big a customer base as possible.

 

[mickeysgirl17]

But here is what I wonder. Why would it serve Disney to do this if isn't known. It isn't like people will go home and say that if you just pony up and stay in deluxe resort then you have more choice. In theory, these guest won't even know there is any difference. At least that is what we are talking about. That those staying in value or off-site guest will never know what they are missing because Disney isn't going to come out and say it is happening. So if those that aren't getting the choices don't know what they are missing, how will those that do get more choice know they are getting something special? Where is the benefit in that for Disney? If know one knows it is going on, how will it convince a family to move on-site from off-site or to move up from a value resort. Sure those guest spend more money but it will do nothing to move more guest to that spending level.

You have a very good point. Maybe Disney will eventually come out and admit that if you stay in a deluxe resort, you have more fp+ options and choices than those who stay in value or moderate (which will make people who stay at value and moderate furious, and won't help people who stay offsite want to stay on site) so then they will still need to come up with a way to keep guests in value and moderates happy and still need a way to get off site people on site...or they can just keep it all quiet and give deluxe guests more fp+ options and choices behind the scenes without the rest of us knowing in hopes that they had a great vacation and no problems with the new system so that they may come back and do it all over again. Who knows what they are up to.

 

[FlipHipster]

Disney may not get as much money from a frequent visitor or the AP holder, but over a longer period of time they will get more money. If you removed those two guests from the resorts and park then there would be no crowding problems. Trust me, I think Disney likes their money also.

Does Disney target first time visitors because they spend more money? Heck yes they do, but I don't believe they are willing to do it at the expense of the AP holders and frequent visitors. All they need to do is look west to Disneyland to see how important it is to have as big a customer base as possible.

I have never understood the rational behind the alienating a group of guests arguments. Not only do the remaining guests have to increase their spending, they have to increase it enough to compensate for all the guests that Disney kicked out of the parks

In fact the one MM+ success story that Iger likes to tell is that they were able to cram 3000 more guests into the parks during one of the busiest times of the year . It's pretty clear from their standpoint, some is good more is better.

 

[WillAustin]

I have never understood the rational behind the alienating a group of guests arguments. Not only do the remaining guests have to increase their spending, they have to increase it enough to compensate for all the guests that Disney kicked out of the parks

In fact the one MM+ success story that Iger likes to tell is that they were able to cram 3000 more guests into the parks during one of the busiest times of the year . It's pretty clear from their standpoint, some is good more is better.

It's also less expensive to keep an existing loyal customer than to acquire a new one.

 

[2Tiggies]

It's also less expensive to keep an existing loyal customer than to acquire a new one.

Not only that, Disney's existing fan club provides a fair share of 'free marketing' on behalf of Disney. Aside from word of mouth, photos posted everywhere, trip reports which provide information on how to maximize your trip, recommendations and youtube videos ....

 

[WillAustin]

They are really pushing the advance FP+ reservations. We just hit 60 days from our next trip today and have received 2 separate notifications in the mail, one with the important date reminder magnet, and a 3rd by email.

I also noticed the "testing" language is now gone from the WDW website.

 

[FlipHipster]

It's also less expensive to keep an existing loyal customer than to acquire a new one.

Not only that, Disney's existing fan club provides a fair share of 'free marketing' on behalf of Disney. Aside from word of mouth, photos posted everywhere, trip reports which provide information on how to maximize your trip, recommendations and youtube videos ....

Agree with both points. Friends convinced us to start going years ago and we have done a fair amount of Disney promo ourselves.

 

[JimmyV]

There's just one big issue with scenario "C" that goes against every revenue model in the Resort Industry: you're not taking into account the impact of the check-in and check-out days. Plus, it's unrealistic to insert constants souvenirs, meals, etc.

Check in and Check out are not only the lowest spend days for the guest, they are the highest expense/resource intensive days for the Resort. Please don't get me wrong- I'm not trying to be difficult, it's just a given. No reason to go into all of the models, everyone just needs to think about how little they do/spend/eat at Disney on the day they arrive and the day they leave versus a full day. Then think about how much more expensive for the Resort it is to totally clean your room (and wash all the sheets and towels, etc.) versus making up your room.

Resorts look at guest expenditure per day and expense per day. "C" would not be the one Disney would pick.

You are right that there is a fatigue factor for too long a stay, but there's a reason every Resort in the world gives incentives for longer stays.

Sorry, but this just isn't the case at WDW. "Length of Stay" park passes and the Dining Plan make it such that check-in and check-out days derive almost as much revenue as a non check-in/check-out day. Just scan the posts on this board where people discuss their itineraries and see how many of them mention checking in and then heading to a park in the afternoon/early evening. What you say is true for hotel spending generally. But WDW sees an entirely different model. Two 5-day stays are better than one 10 day stay. The 3,3,4 night model may not be in Disney's best interest because it has to find 3 families that want to do short stays. But the 5 and 5 is optimal.

 

[NavyDad]

Sorry, but this just isn't the case at WDW. "Length of Stay" park passes and the Dining Plan make it such that check-in and check-out days derive almost as much revenue as a non check-in/check-out day. Just scan the posts on this board where people discuss their itineraries and see how many of them mention checking in and then heading to a park in the afternoon/early evening. What you say is true for hotel spending generally. But WDW sees an entirely different model. Two 5-day stays are better than one 10 day stay. The 3,3,4 night model may not be in Disney's best interest because it has to find 3 families that want to do short stays. But the 5 and 5 is optimal.

I agree - Disney indeed does have a slightly different revenue model than the rest of the resort industry.

The 5 night model does seem to be their "sweet spot". Anything approaching 10 (or over) is going to drop off quite a bit from a revenue per customer per day stand-point IMO.

I'm just glad people are starting to look at this whole thing from a logical model-driven viewpoint instead of an emotional "how does this effect me" viewpoint.

In order for people to make good decisions on how(or if) to vacation at Disney it is important to understand what Disney is trying to do and how the system works.

 

[Sammie]

Now that we have gotten confirmation from a reliable source, many more will accept that this is true.

Well excuse me, I don't think I have ever shared anything that did not come to pass.

 

[Missyrose]

Well excuse me, I don't think I have ever shared anything that did not come to pass.

I don't think that was a direct dig at you.

 

[WillAustin]

Well excuse me, I don't think I have ever shared anything that did not come to pass.

I don't read his post as sarcastic. He was referring to The Hub (a reliable source) posting about holding them back.

 

[seashoreCM]

Did someone say he was showing a friend his already booked Fastpasses for instructional purposes and saw numerous open time slots? Then when the friend tried to book on his own, he saw few slots?

The system could well have one set of rules for a guest wishing to change a Fastpass reservation and another set of rules for a guest wishing to make a FP reservation.

A guest wishing to change is going to be putting a FP back into the system. The system can tolerate a small amount of overbooking here and there (but not everywhere at once) expecting that other guests would want to change FPs in the opposite direction and it balances out. The system does not have to allow an unlimited number of changes in one direction all at once. If indeed guests do change the other way in the meantime, someone denied a change might wait a little while and the change might then succeed.

Going one way and going the other way could also apply to different rides (of the same popularlty e.g. Soarin' and Test Track) as well as different times for the same ride.

A guest wishing to make a reservation does not have anything to put back into the system so the system would just size up how many slots are still available and grant/deny the request accordingly.