Disney holding back FP+s for day-of

[jamoka]

I saw no flexibility in the system last week. Yes I pre booked mine 60 days out, but when I wanted to change things the day before nothing for TSM was available. Never checked right when park opened, because we were doing rope drop at another park. Did look a little later like at lunch and nothing. Great to have it planned, but if you want to change anything it seems like you might as well forget it for the headliners. All we did was go to the different park use our three and leave. Usually we would be at a park all day, now that has changed.

This was exactly our experience last week when crowd levels were at a 7 (or less).

 

[Sammie]

They have held some back since the very beginning, some just will not accept that they do this.

 

[magicbob]

They have held some back since the very beginning, some just will not accept that they do this.

Now that we have gotten confirmation from a reliable source, many more will accept that this is true.

 

[nowinflorida]

Just one persons experience but last week I was able to book fp+ on Tues for Wed at EPCOT (soarin, SE and MS) and Friday at DHS (TSM, ST and ToT). I was not able to move things around on thurs or prior to 9am but At 9 am at both parks on the days we were there, I was able to move things around. On Firday, I actually moved TSM around again around 10am to a 12:55 slot. Since then, I've been randomly playing around on MDE trying to get a feel for how far in advance I need to plan (I'm a local ap holder and generally decide to go at the last minute) and I am having no problem booking fp+ for headliners less than a week in advance...for example, I just now signed in and had 3 options for DHS on this Saturday for TSM, ToT and ST (one option switched out ToT).

 

[OtherScott]

Based upon our crowd predictions and historical data, we are saving between 25% and 40% of FastPass reservations for day of bookings. This means that a percentage in each available timeslot will be held back. The busier we expect it to be, the less we have for day of bookings.

In November I thought Disney would not hold back FPs because demand would not necessitate it. The ability to hold back this level indicates demand is nowhere near peak or that people trying to pre-book are being told "no."

Looks like a lack of demand materialized. Disney will seek to increase through marketing and offset by offering more supply to current users.

 

[FlipHipster]

My leaders told our cast this during track talk a few weeks ago, so yes, this was before offsite can prebook. However, it was when MyMagic+ was opened to all of our Passholders. If the number changed, my cast hasn't been informed.



Once the FastPass+ entitlements are able to be reserved, they will remain available until they are booked. There are no adjustments at the 30 day, 45 day or 60 day periods. I'm sure some Passholders may have been having difficulty making a FP+ for Anna and Elsa when their window just opened. The 45 day window is not currently attached to any types of tickets, but it can be enabled at any time. When and if, nobody knows. This is Disney. However, it is built into MyMagic+.

The numbers may seem high, but they are needed. In theory, this allows guests to make changes throughout the day by visiting a kiosk or using their mobile app. This also allows most onsite guests to be guaranteed three experiences throughout each day. Our day guests and those who don't know they are going to Walt Disney World until they are in the car also will be able to select some FastPasses at the kiosks. Not to mention, our Cast Members are not able to prebook at this time.

Thanks, for the info. Any indication whether or not they are allocating more ride capacity to FP+ than before? Just wondering..

 

[JimmyV]

Looks like a lack of demand materialized. Disney will seek to increase through marketing and offset by offering more supply to current users.

Given that FP- was always a "day of" thing, I suspect that many guests don't know about the pre-booking options, or simply don't think that they need to book in advance. Perhaps that will continue well into the future, but I suspect that through marketing and occasional disappointments, ("I couldn't get TSM or E&A") people will learn that earlier is better. As early booking becomes more and more common, more and more supply will have to be shifted in that direction. There is an obvious and unavoidable tension between moving slots over to the "pre-booking" side versus holding slots back for the "change on the fly" side. I'm guessing that most people, (and folks here can tell us what they think), would prefer more options when they pre-book than the ability to change on the fly. In other words, given the choices of:

A. More options when pre-booking but fewer opportunities to switch once in the park; or

B. Fewer options when pre-booking but more options once you arrive at the park and more opportunities to change once you are there

most people would choose "A". Ideally, people will want both, but that is a tough thing to pull off. Personally, if I am dropping $5K on a vacation where pre-booking attractions is the latest and greatest thing, I would rather leave home knowing that I have my FP+s for the headliners in my back pocket than board the plane knowing that I have nothing, but flexibility will likely save the day for me. I'd hate to arrive at Epcot at RD, then head straight to a kiosk at 9:00, (or log on with my phone) and find out that, yes, certain slots were held back, but the best I could get was 6:00 p.m. Had I known that in advance, I likely would have tried a different park that day.

 

[OtherScott]

Given that FP- was always a "day of" thing, I suspect that many guests don't know about the pre-booking options, or simply don't think that they need to book in advance. Perhaps that will continue well into the future, but I suspect that through marketing and occasional disappointments, ("I couldn't get TSM or E&A") people will learn that earlier is better. As early booking becomes more and more common, more and more supply will have to be shifted in that direction. There is an obvious and unavoidable tension between moving slots over to the "pre-booking" side versus holding slots back for the "change on the fly" side. I'm guessing that most people, (and folks here can tell us what they think), would prefer more options when they pre-book than the ability to change on the fly. In other words, given the choices of:

A. More options when pre-booking but fewer opportunities to switch once in the park; or

B. Fewer options when pre-booking but more options once you arrive at the park and more opportunities to change once you are there

most people would choose "A". Ideally, people will want both, but that is a tough thing to pull off. Personally, if I am dropping $5K on a vacation where pre-booking attractions is the latest and greatest thing, I would rather leave home knowing that I have my FP+s for the headliners in my back pocket than board the plane knowing that I have nothing, but flexibility will likely save the day for me. I'd hate to arrive at Epcot at RD, then head straight to a kiosk at 9:00, (or log on with my phone) and find out that, yes, certain slots were held back, but the best I could get was 6:00 p.m. Had I known that in advance, I likely would have tried a different park that day.

I'm not sure what most people would choose, or even if they'd choose the same strategy for every park. Remember, a common gripe on here is/was "Who wants to plan out their trip 2 months ahead of time? I'm supposed to know what I want to ride 60 days ahead of time?" Of course, some of these same people have no problem booking where they want to eat 6 months ahead of time.

I think demand for previous non-planners will remain near the minimum of 3 pre-books with little additional FP pulls day of. Previous planners will always take advantage of whatever additional supply is offered.

I'm with you. I want bad news early so I can either change my plan or accept it. I don't have girls but I can imagine it would be easier explaining not getting the ultra-limited FP 60 days out as opposed to inside the park.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

Given that FP- was always a "day of" thing, I suspect that many guests don't know about the pre-booking options, or simply don't think that they need to book in advance. Perhaps that will continue well into the future, but I suspect that through marketing and occasional disappointments, ("I couldn't get TSM or E&A") people will learn that earlier is better. As early booking becomes more and more common, more and more supply will have to be shifted in that direction. There is an obvious and unavoidable tension between moving slots over to the "pre-booking" side versus holding slots back for the "change on the fly" side. I'm guessing that most people, (and folks here can tell us what they think), would prefer more options when they pre-book than the ability to change on the fly. In other words, given the choices of:

A. More options when pre-booking but fewer opportunities to switch once in the park; or

B. Fewer options when pre-booking but more options once you arrive at the park and more opportunities to change once you are there

most people would choose "A". Ideally, people will want both, but that is a tough thing to pull off. Personally, if I am dropping $5K on a vacation where pre-booking attractions is the latest and greatest thing, I would rather leave home knowing that I have my FP+s for the headliners in my back pocket than board the plane knowing that I have nothing, but flexibility will likely save the day for me. I'd hate to arrive at Epcot at RD, then head straight to a kiosk at 9:00, (or log on with my phone) and find out that, yes, certain slots were held back, but the best I could get was 6:00 p.m. Had I known that in advance, I likely would have tried a different park that day.

I'm not sure what most people would choose, or even if they'd choose the same strategy for every park. Remember, a common gripe on here is/was "Who wants to plan out their trip 2 months ahead of time? I'm supposed to know what I want to ride 60 days ahead of time?" Of course, some of these same people have no problem booking where they want to eat 6 months ahead of time.

I think demand for previous non-planners will remain near the minimum of 3 pre-books with little additional FP pulls day of. Previous planners will always take advantage of whatever additional supply is offered.

I'm with you. I want bad news early so I can either change my plan or accept it. I don't have girls but I can imagine it would be easier explaining not getting the ultra-limited FP 60 days out as opposed to inside the park.

I'll start by saying I do not like the new system at all and wish it would go back to how it was done. But if pre-booking is the system Disney wants to go with, then I want to get what I want at 60 days. I do not like the idea that my family could search everyday before our trip, stalking the website, spending lots of time and not get what we want to find a family that does no planning gets a FP+ slot the morning they enter the park that we had be searching for. If Disney wants me to preplan my rides then reward me for doing so. Again, it isn't my choice. I don't want to pre-book my rides but what I dislike even more is not being able to get what I want not because of my effort but because Disney is controlling the slots. I am viewing this as how it will impact our vacation. Not what is best for Disney. I also know that it is Disney's right to control it in anyway they want.

 

[JimmyV]

I'll start by saying I do not like the new system at all and wish it would go back to how it was done. But if pre-booking is the system Disney wants to go with, then I want to get what I want at 60 days. I do not like the idea that my family could search everyday before our trip, stalking the website, spending lots of time and not get what we want to find a family that does no planning gets a FP+ slot the morning they enter the park that we had be searching for. If Disney wants me to preplan my rides then reward me for doing so. Again, it isn't my choice. I don't want to pre-book my rides but what I dislike even more is not being able to get what I want not because of my effort but because Disney is controlling the slots. I am viewing this as how it will impact our vacation. Not what is best for Disney. I also know that it is Disney's right to control it in anyway they want.

I think you have summed up quite nicely what many, many people now or will think. If Disney wants to move in the direction of getting people invested (both financially and emotionally) in their vacations ahead of time, they would be wise to think long and hard about holding back almost half of those pre-planned slots for people who roam into the park the morning of. Not because doing so is "unfair", but because doing so is going to have many people doing this: and cursing the system, which, is bad public relations for the new system that they want everyone to love.

 

[OtherScott]

I'll start by saying I do not like the new system at all and wish it would go back to how it was done. But if pre-booking is the system Disney wants to go with, then I want to get what I want at 60 days. I do not like the idea that my family could search everyday before our trip, stalking the website, spending lots of time and not get what we want to find a family that does no planning gets a FP+ slot the morning they enter the park that we had be searching for. If Disney wants me to preplan my rides then reward me for doing so. Again, it isn't my choice. I don't want to pre-book my rides but what I dislike even more is not being able to get what I want not because of my effort but because Disney is controlling the slots. I am viewing this as how it will impact our vacation. Not what is best for Disney. I also know that it is Disney's right to control it in anyway they want.

1) If you're booking 60 days out, chances are you're getting something very close to what you want - unless you wanted 6:15 but settled for 6:30.

2) You'll probably never know what the non-planner got day of.

3) Even if you do find out, as others have pointed out, you won't know if those slots were held back or became available because someone else cancelled.

4) You might be the family getting the now available slot day of.

 

[JimmyV]

1) If you're booking 60 days out, chances are you're getting something very close to what you want - unless you wanted 6:15 but settled for 6:30.

I think this is right. I can see a very odd "bell curve" developing as it relates to FP+. You will have the uber planners who log in at midnight at their earliest available opportunity (60 or 30 days out, and whatever other limits they place on CMs), and you will have the "I don't plan ahead" crowd who finally get around to booking FPs within the 7 days (or hours) prior to arrival. The uber planners should be getting pretty much everything they want. (Though the 7DMT may change that). But the percentage of people who are eligible to book 60 days in advance and who habitually pre-plan their Disney vacations who don't get around to booking their FPs until 10 days before they arrrive is likely going to be small. The 60/30 day folks might change their FPs 20 times each from the time of first booking until the date of arrival due to weather, park hours, special events, etc.. But their initial bookings are probably going to be much closer to the 60/30 day marks and are probably going to be successful.

 

[mom2mickeyfan]

1) If you're booking 60 days out, chances are you're getting something very close to what you want - unless you wanted 6:15 but settled for 6:30.

2) You'll probably never know what the non-planner got day of.

3) Even if you do find out, as others have pointed out, you won't know if those slots were held back or became available because someone else cancelled.

4) You might be the family getting the now available slot day of.

Oh I totally get that it is very unlikely most guest would ever even know this happens and even harder to know exactly where those slots came from. But if you weren't able to get an A&E meet & greet after checking for weeks and see 10 or 15 slots open the morning you enter the park. I would assume that it would appear to most that those slots were being held back. If I had spent all this time preplanning and arranging my schedule and then this FP+ opened up, I would not be happy to now have to rework my day after entering the park (so much for preplanning) to get this FP+ I had been searching WEEKS for.

I also know that booking at 60 days will get you all but 1 or 2 things that you want but can you say the same thing for 20 or 30 days out?

To the 4th point, I don't want to have to rework anything once I enter the park. I don't want to have to keep checking to see what I want opens up. I want be rewarded for doing what Disney wants me to do by giving me all the options and letting me pick what is best for us. Let those that don't preplan have the leftovers. I don't want any of us to preplan. Disney wants me to so we will. But I still want the first come first serve service.

I know that very few guest will even know. But there are lots of people posting about Disney holding back slots and to check the morning of right after park opening and the system is just rolling out to all guest. Not to mention that people love to strike up conversations with other guest while standing in those long SB lines. A few unhappy guest will spread the word to those that don't know it is going on.

I'm not to imply I think this is going to be a huge problem. I'm just stating that I don't like the idea. Reward our family for being first in line no matter if that is at my home or standing in the park. Disney made this problem.

 

[bjakmom]

I'll start by saying I do not like the new system at all and wish it would go back to how it was done. But if pre-booking is the system Disney wants to go with, then I want to get what I want at 60 days. I do not like the idea that my family could search everyday before our trip, stalking the website, spending lots of time and not get what we want to find a family that does no planning gets a FP+ slot the morning they enter the park that we had be searching for. If Disney wants me to preplan my rides then reward me for doing so. Again, it isn't my choice. I don't want to pre-book my rides but what I dislike even more is not being able to get what I want not because of my effort but because Disney is controlling the slots. I am viewing this as how it will impact our vacation. Not what is best for Disney. I also know that it is Disney's right to control it in anyway they want.

^This about sums up my thoughts/feelings on the system as it currently stands. I really won't appreciate them holding back FP+ for day-of guests if it comes at the expense of guests pre-planning, as Disney is forcing us to do (if we want FPs that is - I know I don't HAVE to do anything). I wish the whole system could be day of - just let me sign in a 6 or 7 AM and book my FP+s for that day. But we all know their web site wouldn't handle that.

 

[OtherScott]

Oh I totally get that it is very unlikely most guest would ever even know this happens and even harder to know exactly where those slots came from. But if you weren't able to get an A&E meet & greet after checking for weeks and see 10 or 15 slots open the morning you enter the park. I would assume that it would appear to most that those slots were being held back. If I had spent all this time preplanning and arranging my schedule and then this FP+ opened up, I would not be happy to now have to rework my day after entering the park (so much for preplanning) to get this FP+ I had been searching WEEKS for.

I also know that booking at 60 days will get you all but 1 or 2 things that you want but can you say the same thing for 20 or 30 days out?

To the 4th point, I don't want to have to rework anything once I enter the park. I don't want to have to keep checking to see what I want opens up. I want be rewarded for doing what Disney wants me to do by giving me all the options and letting me pick what is best for us. Let those that don't preplan have the leftovers. I don't want any of us to preplan. Disney wants me to so we will. But I still want the first come first serve service.

I know that very few guest will even know. But there are lots of people posting about Disney holding back slots and to check the morning of right after park opening and the system is just rolling out to all guest. Not to mention that people love to strike up conversations with other guest while standing in those long SB lines. A few unhappy guest will spread the word to those that don't know it is going on.

I'm not to imply I think this is going to be a huge problem. I'm just stating that I don't like the idea. Reward our family for being first in line no matter if that is at my home or standing in the park. Disney made this problem.

I think I get what you're saying. You would've picked "this" if it was available 60 days out, but since it wasn't, you picked 3 of "that"...and now on the day of, you see "this" is suddenly available and Joe Dozer breezed in and scarfed it up.

This could happen on things like A&E where number of FPs are low to begin with, but I would think that with high demand/low supply attractions, the percentage of holdbacks differ. The Hub said the hold back a range of FPs but I don't read that to mean this range is applied consistently across the board to all attractions. Maybe they hold back 10% of Sorain', 50% of EO, 0% of A&E.

As for whether or not this would be advantageous to you day of, I was speaking more of necessity to change, as opposed to desire.

If it would piss you off, I'd say "set it and forget it." Easier said than done.

 

[OtherScott]

I think this is right. I can see a very odd "bell curve" developing as it relates to FP+. You will have the uber planners who log in at midnight at their earliest available opportunity (60 or 30 days out, and whatever other limits they place on CMs), and you will have the "I don't plan ahead" crowd who finally get around to booking FPs within the 7 days (or hours) prior to arrival. The uber planners should be getting pretty much everything they want. (Though the 7DMT may change that). But the percentage of people who are eligible to book 60 days in advance and who habitually pre-plan their Disney vacations who don't get around to booking their FPs until 10 days before they arrrive is likely going to be small. The 60/30 day folks might change their FPs 20 times each from the time of first booking until the date of arrival due to weather, park hours, special events, etc.. But their initial bookings are probably going to be much closer to the 60/30 day marks and are probably going to be successful.

Ironically, this board (and others) will operate just like Disney. We will know what we can plan for and have a reasonable idea of what we can expect, based on collective experience.

So we will book our best option at the earliest date possible, with an eye toward amending it if something more preferable presents itself along the way.

You will always know more than the rubes. You will always be more nimble.

It's just human nature.

 

[lugnut33]

Now that we have gotten confirmation from a reliable source, many more will accept that this is true.

Very true. I was skeptical that they were holding back for day of, but with confirmation I have to say I was wrong.

I still think going forward it will be very difficult for Disney to hold back day of selections as more and more people use the system. That is my opinion.

 

[OtherScott]

Very true. I was skeptical that they were holding back for day of, but with confirmation I have to say I was wrong.

I still think going forward it will be very difficult for Disney to hold back day of selections as more and more people use the system. That is my opinion.

Depending on what you said, maybe not.

Assuming the PP is in a position to know, and that what he knows is correct, he did say this was before pre-booking was opened to non-resort guests, APs and day guests (roughly 50% of all guests).

This number will naturally be reduced now that all guests have the ability to pre-book.

My guess is that what you see 30/60 days out is what there is, and the differences you see along the way are the result of thousands of guests making, changing, cancelling reservations.

 

[JimmyV]

My guess is that what you see 30/60 days out is what there is, and the differences you see along the way are the result of thousands of guests making, changing, cancelling reservations.

That's my guess too. I can't see the committee in the conference room agreeing to a system that allows a last minute guest to get a coveted FP return time that a person who is past the date of non-refundability of their resort reservation cannot get. In many respects, Disney profits (literally) from the perception that early bookers make out better than late arrivers. If someone books a resort reservation 45 days in advance and then goes on line to discover that the FPs they want are not available, wouldn't that person simply cancel the resort reservation and move off site and try again at the 30 day mark, or try again on the day of arrival? If Disney wants you to stay at a "Moderate" resort for $250 instead of a two bedroom suite at the Waldorf, it had better do what it can to keep you happy in terms of FPs.

 

[clsteve]

My guess is that what you see 30/60 days out is what there is, and the differences you see along the way are the result of thousands of guests making, changing, cancelling reservations.

Maybe so. But if you read Hub's post closely, the ability to display or provide availability based on ticket type is there, just as it's outlined in the Patent. So, what a single day off-site ticket gets to see (and reserve) may not be what a multi-day deluxe on-siter gets to see and reserve.

For, example, Disney may well want the multi-day deluxe guest to be able to get all of their "good ones" reserved in a 4-5 hour afternoon window so they can play golf, hit the day spa, etc., in the morning while the single day off-siter may only see all of their "good ones" spread out over an 8 (or longer) hour period of time.

Holding some specific availability out for same day also makes sense as a way to get guests to stay longer in the Parks (as they've said), now that the ability to move on to a 4th after using 3 is on it's way.

This type of functionality is what caused the high price tag and will be incredibly difficult for those of us on the sidelines to monitor as they start to add these levels of sophistication they've paid so much for.