Disney Genie+ and ILL$ Details & FAQ - Launches 10/19 at WDW, Paid "FastPass" at WDW and Disneyland (date TBD)

[Aluminum Falcon]

Well, one of the issues with Genie+ is that the cost doesn’t decrease the more days you purchase. Yes, a one day pass starts at $194, but a 10 day pass works out to somewhere around $75/day (depending on when you go), according to the Disney website. $15 for one day isn’t bad; $15 for 10 adds quite a bit more, and is proportionally a much higher percentage increase in the cost of the ticket. What if they discounted gene+ for multiple day purchases, like they do for admission? I mean, how many people buy a one day pass? I’m sure most buy 3-4 day passes, at least.

I’m not sure if there was uproar when fast pass was first released, but I remember when it first came out and loved it. I was only able to go once during the FP+ era, and while it was a change, and required me to do some research, I LOVED that change. So I’m not someone who is just whining for the “good old days”. I genuinely believe that genie+ is a lesser product, and one that adds a substantial cost to my trip (I purchased the 14 day UK tickets, and when my family travels, we go for about 2 weeks), should I choose to purchase it. If I don’t purchase it, I’ll likely be forced to wait in lines longer (not good), or do rope drop every day (I usually do rope drop, but not for every day), to avoid the crowds. None of this speaks to a better experience for me. YMMV, and I may turn out to be wrong, but I’m not excited by this change, at all.

I think you’re missing my initial point, I’m not talking about manipulating pricing, all I’m saying is add $20 to a daily ticket for everyday of your stay, (in your example you say it works out to be about $75, I’m saying make that average $95) and I don’t think anyone complains, I also find it interesting that so many are willing to write off a system that hasn’t had a single day of use yet, a lot of “I don’t like its” out there for something that is still for all intents and purposes conceptual until it’s released. Again to me, Genie has never been given a sniff at a fair chance on these boards, as soon as it was released it was written off, and I just can’t wrap my mind around it, especially since no one has seen it in motion. It all just leads me back to my point that no one enjoys change

 

[snowwhite84]

I also find it interesting that so many are willing to write off a system that hasn’t had a single day of use yet, a lot of “I don’t like its” out there for something that is still for all intents and purposes conceptual until it’s released. Again to me, Genie has never been given a sniff at a fair chance on these boards, as soon as it was released it was written off, and I just can’t wrap my mind around it, especially since no one has seen it in motion. It all just leads me back to my point that no one enjoys change

Yes!

 

[Liquidice]

I think you’re missing my initial point, I’m not talking about manipulating pricing, all I’m saying is add $20 to a daily ticket for everyday of your stay, (in your example you say it works out to be about $75, I’m saying make that average $95) and I don’t think anyone complains, I also find it interesting that so many are willing to write off a system that hasn’t had a single day of use yet, a lot of “I don’t like its” out there for something that is still for all intents and purposes conceptual until it’s released. Again to me, Genie has never been given a sniff at a fair chance on these boards, as soon as it was released it was written off, and I just can’t wrap my mind around it, especially since no one has seen it in motion. It all just leads me back to my point that no one enjoys change

To counter your issue with change - if Genie and Genie+ were absolutely free, would people be complaining? I doubt it. It isn't simply the change - and I don't think the cost of Genie+ alone is the issue. It is that virtually all of the changes Disney has made over the last year have been either elimination of perks or upcharges / increases in price.

When you look at the overall picture and not Genie just by itself - that is where the majority of the negativity comes from imho.

As far as people having not tried out Genie+ yet - I agree that we should wait to give it a fair shake, but the negative opinions on it and the other up charges Disney has introduced are from the feeling that Disney is just trying to grab every dollar and cent from you possible all while trying to cut costs as much as possible and eliminate perks.

If they chose one or the other - I think more people would be understanding - sure nobody would like it, but I think more people could understand cutting perks to prevent price increases or increasing prices to cover costs - but doing both seems a little extreme.

We'll see if Disney has pushed too far and it impacts revenue - if it does, then obviously Disney can pull back or offer promos to get the crowds to come back. Personally, I hope enough people agree that Disney has gotten too expensive and avoid it enough that Disney reconsiders their position.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

imho it is more than just the 60 day FP+ benefit that had people wanting to stay onsite. DME, extra magic hours (now reduced to 30 mins and deluxe only for evenings), resort airline checkin, package delivery to your resort from the parks, free Magicbands ... it is the combination of these lost perks when combined with the higher prices of staying onsite that would have me considering staying offsite if I weren't DVC.

And for me, Genie+ by itself perhaps isn't a huge cost - although it certainly isn't cheap if you opt to buy it everyday for a family of 4, the cost is $420 more for a 7 day trip. It also doesn't include the IA$ rides, meaning more money if you want to ride any of those w/o waiting. Something that previously would have been free for rides like 7DMT.

Then combine that with the increase in AP costs, for the Sorcerer pass it has gone up 25%. The added cost of Photopass now being $99 ... It has all happened in a matter of a few short weeks that it will cost me nearly $2000 more per year or about 70% more to get a similar experience to what I was getting - and some perks are just gone. So I'm being asked to pay significantly more and getting less with regard to perks. In practice I probably won't get Genie+ everyday, so it isn't literally $2000 more, but it will still definitely cost more.

This isn't resistance to change - resistance to change would be being upset that Fastpass is going from paper FPs to digital FP's on MDE. Most people who are unhappy imho are upset because there is a significant increase in costs and less value for what you're getting.

As a DVC member and AP holder (renewed in June 2021 before a lot of this was announced), I'm still planning to go to Disney but I'll certainly be changing how I spend my money at the parks to reduce the increases and longer term, maybe reconsider going to Disney parks all the time, even with DVC I can use it to go to Universal or explore other parts of Orlando. Maybe make it an every other year or more visit.

I would respectfully argue that Disney has been adding onto their parks at brake neck speed, and they haven’t had any significant price increases over recent years, that was bound to come to an end. I feel like the perks you mentioned above do add up, but for a casual guest, the price is the price, and they aren’t adding up all the perks and looking to their significant other head in hands saying, it just doesn’t add up. I think there is a small sliver of the population who will do a value add, but for most the price is the price.
I would also argue that all the points you listed above are about how things have changed and you personally don’t see value in it anymore, no one mentions how much work Disney has put into their parks recently and how that is a value add for many many people. On these boards it seems to be about how their changes have affected each individual on a personal level, I have yet to see many people bring up just how much has been added, just that they don’t like the changes, and that Disney has “not added any value” aka (new lands, rides, hotels, restaurants ect…) everyone seems happy when they add these, but they are not added value when Disney increases the price. Banana land haha

 

[snowwhite84]

To counter your issue with change - if Genie and Genie+ were absolutely free, would people be complaining? I doubt it. It isn't simply the change - and I don't think the cost of Genie+ alone is the issue. It is that virtually all of the changes Disney has made over the last year have been either elimination of perks or upcharges / increases in price.

When you look at the overall picture and not Genie just by itself - that is where the majority of the negativity comes from imho.

As far as people having not tried out Genie+ yet - I agree that we should wait to give it a fair shake, but the negative opinions on it and the other up charges Disney has introduced are from the feeling that Disney is just trying to grab every dollar and cent from you possible all while trying to cut costs as much as possible and eliminate perks.

If they chose one or the other - I think more people would be understanding - sure nobody would like it, but I think more people could understand cutting perks to prevent price increases or increasing prices to cover costs - but doing both seems a little extreme.

We'll see if Disney has pushed too far and it impacts revenue - if it does, then obviously Disney can pull back or offer promos to get the crowds to come back. Personally, I hope enough people agree that Disney has gotten too expensive and avoid it enough that Disney reconsiders their position.

I definitely think there would still be complaining. Were you around for the debates when legacy FP switched to FP+? Oh my it was contentious.

20 years from now Genie+ will be gone and there will be something new. I understand being annoyed at an extra cost, I really do. I just think there’s a strong chance that this new system will prove to be worth the upcharge.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

To counter your issue with change - if Genie and Genie+ were absolutely free, would people be complaining? I doubt it. It isn't simply the change - and I don't think the cost of Genie+ alone is the issue. It is that virtually all of the changes Disney has made over the last year have been either elimination of perks or upcharges / increases in price.

When you look at the overall picture and not Genie just by itself - that is where the majority of the negativity comes from imho.

As far as people having not tried out Genie+ yet - I agree that we should wait to give it a fair shake, but the negative opinions on it and the other up charges Disney has introduced are from the feeling that Disney is just trying to grab every dollar and cent from you possible all while trying to cut costs as much as possible and eliminate perks.

If they chose one or the other - I think more people would be understanding - sure nobody would like it, but I think more people could understand cutting perks to prevent price increases or increasing prices to cover costs - but doing both seems a little extreme.

We'll see if Disney has pushed too far and it impacts revenue - if it does, then obviously Disney can pull back or offer promos to get the crowds to come back. Personally, I hope enough people agree that Disney has gotten too expensive and avoid it enough that Disney reconsiders their position.

I think that is a common objection to price increases, perks are, well, perks, and I would argue that perks change overtime depending on what a company feels like it has to do to entice customers. No one, and I mean no one likes when perks are stripped, but it has to be done from time to time

 

[Liquidice]

I would respectfully argue that Disney has been adding onto their parks at brake neck speed, and they haven’t had any significant price increases over recent years, that was bound to come to an end. I feel like the perks you mentioned above do add up, but for a casual guest, the price is the price, and they aren’t adding up all the perks and looking to their significant other head in hands saying, it just doesn’t add up. I think there is a small sliver of the population who will do a value add, but for most the price is the price.
I would also argue that all the points you listed above are about how things have changed and you personally don’t see value in it anymore, no one mentions how much work Disney has put into their parks recently and how that is a value add for many many people. On these boards it seems to be about how their changes have affected each individual on a personal level, I have yet to see many people bring up just how much has been added, just that they don’t like the changes, and that Disney has “not added any value” aka (new lands, rides, hotels, restaurants ect…) everyone seems happy when they add these, but they are not added value when Disney increases the price. Banana land haha

What I'm trying to say though is that it isn't simply resistance to change for many on this board at least - there is more to it than just change. I think you had made a point earlier that people are resistant to change and that if this were just a ticket price increase, nobody would be complaining - therefore it is the change that is what people are not happy about. My counter is that for many of us - myself included it is the value of what we're paying for that has changed and that is what we don't like - and it is a combination of things, not just Genie.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

You dont see a 60 day booking window dropping to 0 a factor in deciding whether or not to stay in an already exorbitantly overpriced room? I disagree.

It’s definitely a factor. I’m planning a June trip right now where my family is going to stay offsite using a VRBO at either Windsor Hills or Club Wyndham Bonnet Creek. It’ll be our first time in 6 trips staying off site. and why wouldn’t we at this point? It’s like a quarter the price of a disney deluxe with much nicer accommodations and really no downside given the elimination of all on site perks.

 

[Liquidice]

I think that is a common objection to price increases, perks are, well, perks, and I would argue that perks change overtime depending on what a company feels like it has to do to entice customers. No one, and I mean no one likes when perks are stripped, but it has to be done from time to time

There are not really any perks left to staying on site compared to pre-pandemic. So much so that I'd argue people will not continue to stay on site and save money on the hotel.

But - again I go back to - raising prices and cutting perks together is my objection. The overall picture is not great from that perspective. You say they added a bunch of lands and rides - ok, so increase the ticket prices to cover that. But then on the hotel side, why did they raise prices over the last 2-3 years (fairly significantly I might add - about 15-20% overall) and cut perks for onsite guests - they didn't add anything to the hotels.

It simply comes down to Disney believes they can do almost anything, raise prices, cut perks, etc and maintain high demand. Perhaps they're right, and if so - then I guess it'll be good for business for them and they'll increase profits. I hope they're wrong though and its my belief that they find that what they've done is erode trust with their long time customers who may or may not return, and perhaps created a short term bubble where new customers come to the parks and then don't return because it is too expensive.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

What I'm trying to say though is that it isn't simply resistance to change for many on this board at least - there is more to it than just change. I think you had made a point earlier that people are resistant to change and that if this were just a ticket price increase, nobody would be complaining - therefore it is the change that is what people are not happy about. My counter is that for many of us - myself included it is the value of what we're paying for that has changed and that is what we don't like - and it is a combination of things, not just Genie.

I do understand that, but do you not see any value in what Disney has added over the last 7-8 years. No one talks about the value added there,(and they had no major price increases during that time period), it’s all talk about how value is being stripped now. No one recognizes just how much has been added, I’m speaking on a macro level, lots of large improvements/ additions, and in comparison the things being removed/ reworked are relatively small in comparison. When it is on a personal level, of course you have the right to feel differently, what is small to one might be large to another, I just try and separate that out from why they made the business decision they have

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

It’s definitely a factor. I’m planning a June trip right now where my family is going to stay offsite using a VRBO at either Windsor Hills or Club Wyndham Bonnet Creek. It’ll be our first time in 6 trips staying off site. and why wouldn’t we at this point? It’s like a quarter the price of a disney deluxe with much nicer accommodations and really no downside given the elimination of all on site perks.

I think that makes sense for someone who knows where to find value, I’m just saying the “average” guest isn’t going to go looking for it, and when they’re at AAA, or on Disneys website booking their trip, they will do whatever the mouse tells them

 

[disneyfan123]

Yes but you’re saying that without having ever tried it, without a single guest having ever tried it. You say you loved legacy Fastpass, and you loved FP+. Do you really not believe there’s at least a chance that Disney has put in the time to create a system that you will again love? I understand your concern about the cost over 14 days, but maybe it’s the sort of thing that isn’t needed every day of a two week trip.

Perhaps you missed my final sentence where I admitted that I could be wrong? I’ll leave room for my opinion to change, but my initial reaction is very negative, mainly because of the added cost.

 

[Liquidice]

I do understand that, but do you not see any value in what Disney has added over the last 7-8 years. No one talks about the value added there,(and they had no major price increases during that time period), it’s all talk about how value is being stripped now. No one recognizes just how much has been added, I’m speaking on a macro level, lots of large improvements/ additions, and in comparison the things being removed/ reworked are relatively small in comparison. When it is on a personal level, of course you have the right to feel differently, what is small to one might be large to another, I just try and separate that out from why they made the business decision they have

I guess what I worry about is that they may be making the right moves as a business in the short term to increase their quarterly earnings for the next year, but will it play out in the long term? If you erode trust with your long time repeat customers, do you run the risk that even if you course correct later, they never come back?

Disney can probably operate differently from many businesses because there's an emotional attachment with their customers. As customers, we assume Disney's goal is to both make money but also build that emotional attachment so you create long term repeat customers. If their goal is simply to increase revenues even at the expense of guest satisfation for repeat customers - then that emotional attachment is lost. It may not be lost for everyone, and maybe not all at the same time - but success at this moment will I believe foster continued changes like you see happening. More upcharges, more removal of perks. At some point, even the people defending Disney's decisions may sing a different tune.

It will be interesting to see from a business perspective how this plays out over the next few years, is it wildly successful for Disney? Or do they have to backtrack.

 

[disneyfan123]

I think you’re missing my initial point, I’m not talking about manipulating pricing, all I’m saying is add $20 to a daily ticket for everyday of your stay, (in your example you say it works out to be about $75, I’m saying make that average $95) and I don’t think anyone complains, I also find it interesting that so many are willing to write off a system that hasn’t had a single day of use yet, a lot of “I don’t like its” out there for something that is still for all intents and purposes conceptual until it’s released. Again to me, Genie has never been given a sniff at a fair chance on these boards, as soon as it was released it was written off, and I just can’t wrap my mind around it, especially since no one has seen it in motion. It all just leads me back to my point that no one enjoys change

But $15/day is a lot for a longer stay. That’s why I would at least advocate for a discount on longer stays, so that the percentage of the price increase is proportional to the length of stay. People who are investing more money in their Disney trip by purchasing multi-day tickets are getting hit harder than those whose trips are shorter. That doesn’t make sense to me.

You are right that no one knows how Genie will play out; I will be the first to admit that, and I while my initial judgement is rather negative towards it, I will see how it affects my next trip (hopefully this February), and make a more informed judgement then. But I’m allowed to have an initial reaction, and the fact that so many people have the same (or even stronger) negative reaction speaks volumes.

I’m happy for change, but I’m really having a hard time understanding how this change positively impacts me. Before I could get a FP for FOP, included in the price of my admission (I realized that some people had difficulties getting FP for FOP, but that wasn’t an issue for me). Now I can’t; it’s an extra cost, and it could be a substantial cost for my family. That’s not a win in my book. The only way I see Genie+ being of benefit to me is if it allows me to get through the standby lines quickly. Will it do that? I doubt it but we will see. I don’t see myself paying for genie+ or IA$ out of principle, because I want to vote with my wallet (which is really all Disney cares about). I may change my mind on that, once I’m in the park and see how things play out; we’ll see.

 

[middlechild]

The programs like Genie+ are targeting a different demographic. I am from the pay once to enter Disney and put the wallet away. That ship sailed long ago. Meaning Disney is not targeting my peers, people of my age, but of my adult kids. They are used to a monthly charge for just about everything from cell phones to television to auto insurance, etc. For young adults the various charges (hidden in some respects) are taken in stride, and Disney is just one more example of "feeding the meter". My kids are glued to smart phone screens, and send money via VenMo, etc without a thought. Will Genie+ be the straw that cuts attendance and limits volume? No way. Will I go back? Probably not, but then again I am not the target demographic.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

But $15/day is a lot for a longer stay. That’s why I would at least advocate for a discount on longer stays, so that the percentage of the price increase is proportional to the length of stay. People who are investing more money in their Disney trip by purchasing multi-day tickets are getting hit harder than those whose trips are shorter. That doesn’t make sense to me.

You are right that no one knows how Genie will play out; I will be the first to admit that, and I while my initial judgement is rather negative towards it, I will see how it affects my next trip (hopefully this February), and make a more informed judgement then. But I’m allowed to have an initial reaction, and the fact that so many people have the same (or even stronger) negative reaction speaks volumes.

I’m happy for change, but I’m really having a hard time understanding how this change positively impacts me. Before I could get a FP for FOP, included in the price of my admission (I realized that some people had difficulties getting FP for FOP, but that wasn’t an issue for me). Now I can’t; it’s an extra cost, and it could be a substantial cost for my family. That’s not a win in my book. The only way I see Genie+ being of benefit to me is if it allows me to get through the standby lines quickly. Will it do that? I doubt it but we will see. I don’t see myself paying for genie+ or IA$ out of principle, because I want to vote with my wallet (which is really all Disney cares about). I may change my mind on that, once I’m in the park and see how things play out; we’ll see.

I understand where you’re coming from, like I said before, people on these boards are being affected more than the general public when it comes to these changes imho, and because of this, there seems to be a lot of backlash, I think it’s something that will ultimately work in the end for Disney, because the average guest is not that invested in their trip like people on these boards are, (they know before planning that Disney is an expensive trip, and that’s exactly what they’ll encounter haha)

 

[meremac]

I don't think it's just uninformed guests who won't mind shelling out the $$ for Genie+. If this new system is ANYTHING like DL's MaxPass, I'll be happy to pay the $15/day, and I know I'm not alone. But the bottom line for me is that things change. And when they change, there will always be some resistance initially. And yes, it's possible that some customers may decide that Genie+ is such a game-changer for them that they won't stay onsite again or perhaps not even go to WDW at all again. But, as always, that number will be small. Some people will hate it, some people will really love it, the majority will be indifferent. And for new guests, it will be all they know. It's just how it goes.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

The programs like Genie+ are targeting a different demographic. I am from the pay once to enter Disney and put the wallet away. That ship sailed long ago. Meaning Disney is not targeting my peers, people of my age, but of my adult kids. They are used to a monthly charge for just about everything from cell phones to television to auto insurance, etc. For young adults the various charges (hidden in some respects) are taken in stride, and Disney is just one more example of "feeding the meter". My kids are glued to smart phone screens, and send money via VenMo, etc without a thought. Will Genie+ be the straw that cuts attendance and limits volume? No way. Will I go back? Probably not, but then again I am not the target demographic.

I agree with you to an extent, I think additional charges are standard across most businesses now, I just don’t think that anyone is targeting a generation, it’s nearly impossible to avoid those now for all groups, I believe it is more of a someone can swallow $20 a day, over $500 per trip, it reminds me of the whole $9.99 instead of $10 companies run consistently, it’s psychological warfare.

 

[Aluminum Falcon]

I don't think it's just uninformed guests who won't mind shelling out the $$ for Genie+. If this new system is ANYTHING like DL's MaxPass, I'll be happy to pay the $15/day, and I know I'm not alone. But the bottom line for me is that things change. And when they change, there will always be some resistance initially. And yes, it's possible that some customers may decide that Genie+ is such a game-changer for them that they won't stay onsite again or perhaps not even go to WDW at all again. But, as always, that number will be small. Some people will hate it, some people will really love it, the majority will be indifferent. And for new guests, it will be all they know. It's just how it goes.

Completely agree, I think everyone on these boards think that they’re the majority, when in reality we all make up the loud minority

 

[Liquidice]

This isn't an apples to apples comparison - but do you remember when cell phone companies went from Unlimited data to charging for a limited amount of data? It stuck for awhile, but eventually they all went back to Unlimited data... Even Verizon who at the time was considered the best cell phone provider and was the longest holdout in returning to Unlimited data had to go back to Unlimited Data. They're no longer the number 1 cell phone provider as they've lost market share to AT&T and T-Mobile. Cell phone providers aren't the same as Theme parks obviously, because generally speaking 1 cell provider is not that much different than the other - and many will argue nothing can replace Disney...

For the general population though that we keep talking about, is Disney that unique that it can't be replaced? Or could you substitute in a reasonable alternative like perhaps Universal once Epic Universe is open?

I'm not saying that Genie+ will go away, what I am saying though is the path that Disney is going down - which is raising prices beyond inflation levels and removing perks. Will it be sustainable? If Genie+ and IA$ are the only upcharges - maybe they're just fine. If they start adding more upchagres, which I think will come if Genie+ is successful - just my opinion that even the General population "Millennials" that are used to paying for upcharges won't continue to do so.

Realize too that by outpacing inflation they keep pricing more people out of the parks. It still may allow for that once in a lifetime trip - but if they only target those customers, is there an unlimited supply?

BTW- I believe I am Disney's target demographic as I have 2 elementary school age kids that adore Disney World.

My kids remember going to Disney all their lives and so they will probably bring their kids when they get older - but if people can no longer afford to go regularly - do their kids remember Disney and bring their kids? That is a significantly longer game - and I doubt Disney cares or is worried about the future that far away, but I think they could be headed there.

Does anyone else think that the "pause" on the Virtual Queue for Rise of the Resistance is a ploy to get more people to pay for IA$? Make the standby line so long that people will want to pay for IA$. With a virtual line, you don't have to wait in line as long - so you may only attract the people who didn't get a boarding group. Instead with this method you'll catch the people who want to ride and see the standby line is 4 hours or more and decide to pay. You also can artificially create a longer line by serving the paying customers at a rate similar to fastpass (10:1 IA$ to standby).