Disney files expansion plans for Caribbean Beach

[Sammie]

There were rumors/speculation that a bridge might be built from the new CBR DVC to the Mexico/Norway area of Epcot. Can anyone that understands these plans tell if there's anything that looks like that might be in the works?

Norway and Mexico are on the other side of the lagoon. If they build it the logical place to come in is over by the outpost where they draw up that bridge to let the Illuminations barges through. They would have to add another gate though. Between China and Germany there is a lot of empty land if you look at an aerial view.

 

[supersnoop]

the big question is whether deluxe DVC pts and mod DVC pts would be exchangeable. if you buy cheap mod DVC pts, can you take a deluxe studio away from a deluxe owner at 6 months out or what?

I'd expect the points to be just as expensive as they are now. If this is a "moderate" DVC, then the points-per-night would simply be lower.

Personally, I don't think DVD is trying to hit a lower buy-in price-point, so I doubt this will really be a "moderate" DVC, if it's a DVC at all.

 

[tjkraz]

I own at OKW and don't really have to a dog in this fight. But for people who complained that SSR overloaded the system, this could make things even worse as mod DVC owners try their hand at walking monorail resort bookings at 7 months out...

There are only so many rooms on the monorail so regardless of where DVC builds over the next 20 years, those rooms are likely to be impacted.

As for CBR, don't forget even DVC members like a good deal. The AKV Value and BWV Standard rooms are among the most popular in the system. SSR was a victim of a double whammy: too many rooms and too many points per night (DVC has since addressed the latter issue to some degree with the standard/preferred designation at SSR.)

Disney is NOT going to be build 800+ villas at CBR. As long as the point charts are not out of line, the resort will find its niche.

 

[LAX]

If this indeed turns out to be the next DVC and has direct access to Epcot, it doesn't have to have low price per point or low points per night to sell. Since I am relatively new to DVC, I am not sure what exactly make a villa "deluxe." I think if it's similar to what OKW or SSR has, then it can be considered a deluxe. I don't see how it can be considered a "moderate" just because it sits right next to a moderate resort.

LAX

 

[DizptchrAJ]

I would stay here. Id try to get in on one of the other resorts first but if there was only this option for the amount of points we had left -- i would love to try it out.
The way i see it is Disney is never going to think they have enough DVC. As long as there is a demand, they will make more. And they cant lose, if the room goes unfilled they can fill it with a cash res.

 

[Dean]

That's good. I was worried they might restructure dvc so these new properties are like say DVC 2.0 and thus different points value and it would be like the points trading for other companies. So perhaps 2.0 points are 2 to 1. I could imagine them trying to do something like that if the law permits.

They could do a new system with or without a crossover. Any crossover would have to occur at or after 7 months out, likely after. But I doubt it will happen, no reason to.

Gonna be weird if it's on the CBR grounds but CBR hotel guests are told that they can't use the pool.

Given the situation I suspect it'll be open to all, the only one that's restricted is BLT and that's due to the physical plant I believe.

I own at OKW and don't really have to a dog in this fight. But for people who complained that SSR overloaded the system, this could make things even worse as mod DVC owners try their hand at walking monorail resort bookings at 7 months out...

It depends. It'd have to have an ultimate demand within the system around that of VWL/BWV to not make things worse at 7 months out. Realistically it can't help 7 month availability only make it worse or remain neutral. But I think your post points out a fundamental misunderstanding, at least for my perspective. I haven't complained about this issue but I have judged SSR to have such an effect. This fact of SSR has been a big help for RCI members trying to trade into DVC. Personally I think it'll make things worse at 7 months for the resorts that are an issue now. And I don't think CCR will help. Realistically you'd need a demand equal to VGF with at least 10 rooms for every 1 at a SSR demand resort to make any dent in the 7 month window. It's only the rooms available at 7 months out that help and when demand is higher, less owners will trade out.

If (part of) this turns out to be DVC, I expect rooms to be pointed similarly to OKW and SSR-std. I also expect some additional resort amenities to make up for CBR's relative lack of same.

I agree. My expectations is a DVC level resort, nothing more and nothing less and there's no reason for it to be anything else. But that doesn't mean it has to be VGF level. It can be SSR/OKW level and fit in nicely. I think some just get the moderate vs deluxe issue stuck in their head. DVC resorts are not really deluxe anyway and certainly SSR, AKV & OKW locations are more moderate and SSR/OKW are more moderate overall. It's really no different than Eagle Pines was going to be and in some ways, I think SSR is below what I was expecting at EP.

As to what they'll do and how they'll create demand to sell, there are lots of options including price, lower points, unique room options and unique property options. Or they could do like SSR and just not have anything else to sell and use the rest of the system to sell to those who just want in.

 

[AmyKat]

Norway and Mexico are on the other side of the lagoon. If they build it the logical place to come in is over by the outpost where they draw up that bridge to let the Illuminations barges through. They would have to add another gate though. Between China and Germany there is a lot of empty land if you look at an aerial view.

Okay, so between China and Germany then. My original question still stands. Does anyone have enough knowledge in this area to look at the plans that are circulating and see if Disney is actually considering this or if it's just a fan rumor?

 

[com_op_2000]

Okay, so between China and Germany then. My original question still stands. Does anyone have enough knowledge in this area to look at the plans that are circulating and see if Disney is actually considering this or if it's just a fan rumor?

IMHO, if they were to build this bridge, then the fire station just outside CBR will have to be relocated to make room. The bridge/walkway would have to be raised almost all the way to EPCOT due to behind the fire station is a wet land area before getting to the EPCOT grounds. Then you have the parking lot for CMs to deal with, I do not think Disney would want to have guests dealing with back area views as they are walking towards EPCOT.

 

[aoconnor]

As someone who works in real estate development, this makes zero sense to me. The cost of building a "deluxe" resort versus a "moderate" resort wouldn't be all that different. The major expenses (labor, foundation, etc) would be the same for both and we all know Disney "deluxe" resorts aren't all that deluxe compared to industry standards. The extra theming that goes into a deluxe resort doesn't cost huge dollars.

I think if it is a DVC resort, it will be marketed as deluxe even if it sits within/next to a moderate. No reason for them to sell fewer points for something that costs about the same to build.

Unless, maybe, they forgo villas altogether and just build regular hotel rooms (~300 sf) and charge a few points less than they do for studios. That could make financial sense if they build a bunch of them.

 

[Sammie]

Okay, so between China and Germany then. My original question still stands. Does anyone have enough knowledge in this area to look at the plans that are circulating and see if Disney is actually considering this or if it's just a fan rumor?

As to the location, I am not sure. My guess on that is based on looking at the distance between the two, available land for a boat dock, etc.

Are they actually considering this, Yes. I know someone that has seen plans for this. However the current plans that have been released do not show a waterway connecting the two.

So I guess on that, it's a wait and see.

 

[erionm]

The plans were those submitted to the South FL Water Management District and don't show any new waterways that would connect the resort to Epcot. If it's not in the plans to the SFWMD, it's not going to happen.

 

[kniquy]

So just going by historical patterns. When Disney does start a construction project such as this - at what point would we know if it was a DVC resort or not? How long into the process do they have to start creating the new DVC resort? I guess i'm curios for those who have been watching this with past resort construction projects what is the usual timeline for this process?

It sounds like it will move pretty quickly if has noted it will start this year and be completed by 2019.

 

[erionm]

When Disney does start a construction project such as this - at what point would we know if it was a DVC resort or not?

When officially announced by DVC or someone finds that they've applied for a timeshare license, which ever happens first. There will always be speculation, but nothing is 100% final until points go on sale.

How long into the process do they have to start creating the new DVC resort?

If it's going to be (or include) a DVC resort, that decision has probably already been made.

 

[DenLo]

So just going by historical patterns. When Disney does start a construction project such as this - at what point would we know if it was a DVC resort or not? How long into the process do they have to start creating the new DVC resort? I guess i'm curios for those who have been watching this with past resort construction projects what is the usual timeline for this process?

It sounds like it will move pretty quickly if has noted it will start this year and be completed by 2019.

DVC has to be careful as Florida Law has some restrictions on when they can announce that it is going to be a DVC resort. I believe a certain percentage of the resort has to be completed.

CCV was filed with South Florida Water District in April 2015. DVC announced CCV officially as the next DVC resort in September 2015 per the DVC News.

 

[DenLo]

I cannot see a DVC resort at CBR to be less than a DVC deluxe resort. The only problem I have with it is that it will not have onsite access to a Disney Deluxe hotel amenities which includes a TS restaurant. The restaurants at the moderates are just not the same as a restaurant at a deluxe Disney hotel. However, if the new resort would have walking access to the World Showcase it would offset that lack.

 

[erionm]

DVC has to be careful as Florida Law has some restrictions on when they can announce that it is going to be a DVC resort. I believe a certain percentage of the resort has to be completed.

I don't believe there is anything that would legally stop them from announcing a new DVC resort. They do have to be upfront with disclosures stating the resort is not registered, etc.

Didn't they officially announce PVB before construction began due to a leak?

 

[zavandor]

Destroing a few CBR buildings to build different buildings for the same resort doesn't make sense, so it's likely to be a different resort, and DVC is the obvious candidate.

I think there are two options:
1) the new resort will be connected to the existing CBR and will share (some) amenities. In this case I don't think it will be part of the same system. The new buildings might be as good as you want, but they will be in people mind connected to a moderate resort and so a moderate DVC resort. People don't like to feel like they are purchasing something inferior to something already existing and paying the same price. It might be DVC2 or whatever, with some rules for exchanges, probably opened only to direct purchasers. Also: if points required per night are lower to justify its inclusion in the same club, MF would be much higher because there would be less points to divide the resort management budget.
2) The new resort will be on grounds that now belong to CBR, but after the new construction it will be separated. Even if they are adjacent, there can be walls or landscaping separating the two. In this case it would be part of the existing system.

I'd like to see a new (bigger) resort walkable to Epcot that could offer more options for someone willing to stay there during Fall Frenzy.

 

[Sammie]

The plans were those submitted to the South FL Water Management District and don't show any new waterways that would connect the resort to Epcot. If it's not in the plans to the SFWMD, it's not going to happen.

Could those plans be released later?

 

[wdrl]

Could those plans be released later?

Anything is possible, so plans for a walkway could be part of a separate project that will be submitted at a later date.

Its also possible that if construction of a walkway doesn't impact water quality, flood control, natural systems or water supply, then Disney would not need to get a permit from South Florida Water Management District. In that case, all that we might see is a Notice of Commencement filed with the Orange County Comptroller's office for the construction of the walkway.

 

[erionm]

Anything is possible, so plans for a walkway could be part of a separate project that will be submitted at a later date.

My response regarding plans submitted to the SFWMD was solely about a waterway connecting the resort to Epcot. I doubt Disney would submit multiple plans to the SFWMD for the same project unless it's to address issues raised by the SFWMD.

Also, I don't see Disney adding a 3rd entrance to Epcot.