"Disney doesn't know if it's child or adult credit"

[Sammie]

If Disney saw this as a big problem they could easily fix it at any time. All they would have to do is separate the credits into child and adult category. Then, even if you paid out of pocket for some kids meals, you couldn't use their left over credits for adult meals. But, you could still pay oop for regular ts kids meals and use their credits for the more expensive character buffets. Seeing as how Disney has not done this, it shows that the system is working for them. And for anyone who argues that this would be too difficult- they some how manage to put my ticket information, my room key and my credit card information on to one card. How hard is it to separate credits by adult and child if they really wanted to.

Actually due to tech issues, foreign travel agencies issues, legal issues its not easy at all. On what information provided by Disney do you base the assumption that it's so easy to fix?

 

[Pedler]

So you are saying you can purchase a child's plan and that child can order any adult meal they want and Disney does not have a problem with that? Then why does it say children must order from the child's menu if their is no difference in the credits.

No, clearly the plan states that if a child uses a pooled dinning plan credit they have to use it to purchase a meal from the childrens menu. On the flip side if an adult orders a meal using a pooled credit then they can order from the adult menu.

I can speculate as to why the plan is the way it is. My guess is that Disney wants to keep the plan simple for two reasons. One is to make it easier to manage. The other is to make it easier to use. That way more people buy the plan and more people end up staying on site spending more money.

The whole crux of this discussion comes down to two simple points.

First are credits pooled and can they be used by anyone in the group in any way? The answer from the brochure and from the implementation appears to be yes they are pooled. The only restriction on who uses them seems to be that children must order from the childrens menu and LewisC makes the point that at character meals and Signature meals the brochure alludes to requiring all persons use a credit to pay for their meal.

The Second is that Disney does allow and encourage the use of pooled credits and adults using credit paid for at the childrens rate for adult meals for adults. There has been ample first hand accounts of people asking managers, not just CM's, about this policy and being encouraged by managers to use the plan in this manner. I would think that if the allowed but did not like the use of the plan in this manner they would make some effort to discourage it. Instead they make no effort at all. You have said that you have inside knowledge of a different view of the plan. Disney is a large organization and has ample time to change the plan. I wonder if your contacts are just not happy individually with the way the plan is used or if they speak for official Disney policy.

Those are the two points that most everyone seems to disagree on. The only other aspect of this discussion is that there are some people that regardless of how the plan is implemented or if Disney encourages the use of the plan in this manner they will still consider the use of pooled credits immoral and wrong. They have a much higher moral standard than I do and you do have to respect that. Personally since it is allowed and doesn't seem to violate any specific higher moral standard that I can think of other than the circular logic that says it just can't be right because it can't I don't have a problem using pooled credits.

FYI so you do know where I stand on things I do think lying about kids ages or making up phantom guests to get free DDP credits or credits is outright fraud and illegal.

To wrap it up I don't make the rules, Disney does, I just work within them.

 

[Sammie]

Pedler, I can respect that opinion, might not agree with it but can respect it.

As to Disney managers oking and encouraging this practice, my experience has been the opposite. I have had absolutely no one at Disney tell me this practice is acceptable and certainly no one has encouraged it. I have emailed Disney serveral times and each reply is the same. Children's credits are to be used to purchase children's meals. I have never been told anything different.

Certainly I am aware that the loophole is there and can be used. That does not mean its right or the intention of the plan.

If there truly was no difference, the price for an adult and child would be the same and personally I would be all for that. As you said it truly is a personal choice as to how to use or abuse the plan, depending on one perspective.

Personally I will never take advantage of something just because I can. I once purchased a very nice mini stereo set at WalMart, cost $99. When I went to check out the scan read the price, 99 cents. I told the girl at the check out, that can't be right it should be 99 dollars not cents. She said, Are you crazy why do you care and then she said she did not care." So using the thought process of some, if she an employee did not care, why should I. Believe me the manager would care, the stock holders would care.

I did care, and I paid the full price. I sleep very well at night and in the big scheme of things it does matter to me.

 

[Lizzybee]

First let me say I am one of the most honest by the rules people you'd ever meet. In fact I have gone to our work cafeteria to pay the extra dollar the cashier forgot to charge me, even though the manager said it wasn't necessary...it was only fair. I also told a gas station attendant that the decimal point was in the wrong place (gas for .199 instead of 1.99) a few yrs back. I was in a hurry but I told the cashier I would return to pay the correct amount later that evening and I tried but she absolutely refused. Generally my ethics are not called into question.
These are direct quotes from the DDP brochure "Use your meals and snacks in any order and in any amount throughout your package stay until your total is deleted". It also states "You can continue to use your meals any way you like for the rest of your package stay until the number of meals/snacks are depleted. "Guest 3 to 9 must order from the child's menu where available." I combed through the brochure because I am a rule follower and nothing in there indicates it is prohibited by the plan to pay OOP for a child, or for that matter an adult who isn't hungry and wants only an appetizer or a salad or for a 9 yr old who can't find anything on the kids menu and wants to order from the adults menu. To the contrary it says use your credits "any way you like". If Disney wanted to avoid this they could or they could say in the brochure "child credits must be used on child meals only" or "everyone in your party must use DDP credits or pay the entire bill OOP."
Since WDW, who has many many business professionals and lawyers far more savy than I, has chosen to word the brochure in this way, I can only imagine they understand people will use their credits "any way they like".
(stepping off soapbox)

 

[Pedler]

Actually due to tech issues, foreign travel agencies issues, legal issues its not easy at all. On what information provided by Disney do you base the assumption that it's so easy to fix?

The tech issues are not that bad. it could be done within a 6 month timeframe. Setting aside the international issues they could change the US version of the plan anytime. The same way they can change hours, what attractions are open and such. As for the international market well if they do require a lead time, as you seem to imply, to change this or any other options of a package the time to start puting the language in would be when you want to change it. That way you can change it when you want to.

I think the bigger problem is not technical or legal but operational. First you have the CM's that have to remember to debit child credits and adult credits. Then you have the customers that will now see 6 credit counts, TS, CS, and Snack for Adult / Child on the receipts and they will have to track them. I think this would be the biggest problem. You can just see the complaints about how many child vs. adult credits are left.

I still contend that either this isn't a problem to Disney and they could really care less as long as it ups occupancy rates and per capita spending. They have had more than enough time since the last free dinning promo was run to be able to correct anything that they thought were problems.

 

[Pedler]

Pedler, I can respect that opinion, might not agree with it but can respect it.

As to Disney managers oking and encouraging this practice, my experience has been the opposite. I have had absolutely no one at Disney tell me this practice is acceptable and certainly no one has encouraged it. I have emailed Disney serveral times and each reply is the same. Children's credits are to be used to purchase children's meals. I have never been told anything different.

This is interesting. This is the first time that I have heard someone say they have had a direct formal communication that mentions child credits. I would be interested in seeing the e-mail if you still have it.

 

[Lewisc]

Pedler, 1 or 2 years from now, when we see if they change the plan, definitively,to the way I think they intended it to be used or the leave it alone as you say, one of us owes the other a pat on the back.

Probably neither of you get a pat on the back. If Disney decides to change the plan by creating child and adult credits the reason will probably be more guests took advantage of this flexibility than Disney intended.

 

[wdwobsessed]

This is interesting. This is the first time that I have heard someone say they have had a direct formal communication that mentions child credits. I would be interested in seeing the e-mail if you still have it.

So would I.

I challenge anyone to tell thier server they only have 2C TS credits left when they sit down to a meal. I bet they would look at you like you have 8 eyeballs and tell you there is no such thing ...taking off the cost of the adult meals.

The intent was to pool otherwise the bottom of you meal reciept would not say ... You have 10TS credits left.

It would say ... You have 5A TS and 5C TS credits left.

Why do people think, this would be so hard to do?

I mean think of the complicated system of fast pass tracking and the restrictions on that.

You do not think if WDW wanted to seperate them out they would??

It has been a year now yes?

WDWO

 

[Lewisc]

I believe that's what you were told but I don't believe Disney was that stupid. Prior meal plans worked the same way and some people would "bank" "child" credits for adult meals. All of the official langauge indicates the credits are pooled. Disney could have started by making the brochure clear, even if the policy wasn't enforced.

People have been talking about using their children as a license to print money for more than a year. Disney could stop people from paying out of pocket for their kids meals. They also could stop pooling the credits, a childs card then could only be used for kids meals. They could also segment credits into adult and children but that might be a computer issue.

Actually the sad thing to me and this is based on direct conversations with those working on the Dining plan and changes to it, is they truly did not think people would do this. They thought people would actually use it correctly. And hopefully most do.

And alot of what Pedler has said is true, changing it is very difficult. They don't want to punish those of us who have used it correctly. There are also tech issues involved on how to make it work.

 

[Lizzybee]

This is kind of like "if the tree falls in the forest and no one around to hear it, does it make a noise?"

Say I am on the dining plan but it is the free dining plan. Since none of the plan credits were purchased by me paying one rate or another, does it matter then who those credits are used for?

I actually don't understand the debate, the brochure is clear and WDW is not stupid when it comes to business and making money.

 

[byoung]

I think Disney could separate the two if they wanted too.

 

[mickman1962]

Probably neither of you get a pat on the back. If Disney decides to change the plan by creating child and adult credits the reason will probably be more guests took advantage of this flexibility than Disney intended.

Just trying to keep this thread on a civil tone so it doesn't get locked like the last 20 threads on the subject. I am just saying that either Pedler or myself, in the long run will be proven to be correct. Whomever is proven to be correct should admit that the other was wrong. I am man enough to do that and I truly believe that Pedler is too.

 

[mickman1962]

This is kind of like "if the tree falls in the forest and no one around to hear it, does it make a noise?"

Say I am on the dining plan but it is the free dining plan. Since none of the plan credits were purchased by me paying one rate or another, does it matter then who those credits are used for?

I actually don't understand the debate, the brochure is clear and WDW is not stupid when it comes to business and making money.

It might be free, but it is free in the same context as the plan. They don't expect 2 adults and 3 kids staying for a "FREE" week to use that to consume 35 adult meals. They are still, financially writing off the expected cost of the adult vs. child cost to them. I am not an accountant, but I would think that the "free dining" would have to be charged to the books somehow. I would also think that they would not charge the full "adult" cost for every single person using the "free" plan vs actual cost, ie if every person staying on-site was an adult the actual food cost would be (and I am making numbers up) 50 million dollars of free food, seeing as the statistical average is 2 adults and 2 children then the actual food cost would be say, 35 million dollars. That is 15 million dollars more profit to show. That would decrease the bottom line--->impact stock prices due to lower actual profits------>decrease CEO/Executives compensation due to lower stock prices. I don't know how many of you work for large corporations, but the ones that I have worked for are all driven (or so it seems to the average worker) by the need to increase profits----->increase stock prices------>which in turn increase executives salaries. I have worked for enough large companies to realize that eventually they will close this loophole.

 

[mickman1962]

I might be stupid, but I just spent the last 2 hours both googling and searching Disney's website for the word pooling in regards to the meal plan. The only place it shows up is on the DISboards, mousesavers.com and other non-official Disney sites. I am tired and want to go to bed. Please, can someone send me the link/email where Disney says credits are pooled?

 

[Lewisc]

Just trying to keep this thread on a civil tone so it doesn't get locked like the last 20 threads on the subject. I am just saying that either Pedler or myself, in the long run will be proven to be correct. Whomever is proven to be correct should admit that the other was wrong. I am man enough to do that and I truly believe that Pedler is too.

Unless Disney changes the plan and says something like this change was required due to the immoral, dishonest actions of our customers, and I'd be shocked if Disney made any such statement you won't know who was right.

My theory, shared by Peddler, is the plan is set up to allow for the few times in which kids skip meals. Disney would make a change if more people take advantage of this plan feature than Disney intended. Disney making a change, without a specific statement, wouldn't prove you correct.

I look at the plan similar to a buffet, Disney doesn't think very many guests will go back 8-10 times, if too many guests pig out then the policy will change. That doesn't mean guest who pig out today are violating any secret policy.

 

[ehagerty]

While most people think computer system adjustments are quick - and they can be as long as you skip important quality steps - I suspect that Disney is in the process of calibrating the DDP based on how they are observing its utilization. In speaking with a CM back in January about the DDP availability for DVC, I said that I suspected the delay (starting April 1st instead of January 1st) in offering it to the DVC members had a lot to do with having a system available to accommodate the program - and the CM agreed, noting that this is often / usually the case. I suspect that the allocation of meal credit for use by (A)dults and (C)hildren is only a matter of time and will have virtually the same rules that regulated the old vouchers. It is only a surprise (to me) that they didn't "design it in" from the beginning, since they had so much experience with the vouchers for so many years. This would have been an egregious flaw in the business requirements for the DDP from my business perspective - but, thankfully, no one asked me. That said, I hope they don't fix it before my vacation in June!!!!

 

[mickman1962]

Unless Disney changes the plan and says something like this change was required due to the immoral, dishonest actions of our customers, and I'd be shocked if Disney made any such statement you won't know who was right.

My theory, shared by Peddler, is the plan is set up to allow for the few times in which kids skip meals. Disney would make a change if more people take advantage of this plan feature than Disney intended. Disney making a change, without a specific statement, wouldn't prove you correct.

I look at the plan similar to a buffet, Disney doesn't think very many guests will go back 8-10 times, if too many guests pig out then the policy will change. That doesn't mean guest who pig out today are violating any secret policy.

I said that Pedler would be man enough to admit it, I know from the previous 20 threads, that you share Pedlers opinion. I said he would be man enough to admit he was wrong, I do not yet have the same opinion of you. Pedler has at least given consideration to my side of the discussion. I have not seen where you have (please correct me if I'm wrong, I dont' feel like going over the last 1000+ posts to see if you have).

 

[mickman1962]

While most people think computer system adjustments are quick - and they can be as long as you skip important quality steps - I suspect that Disney is in the processing of calibrating the DDP based on how they are observing its utilization. In speaking with a CM back in January about the DDP availability for DVC, I said that I suspected the delay (starting April 1st instead of January 1st) in offering it to the DVC members had a lot to do with having a system available to accommodate the program - and the CM agreed, noting that this is often / usually the case. I suspect that the allocation of meal credit for use by (A)dults and (C)hildren is only a matter of time and will have virtually the same rules that regulated the old vouchers. It is only a surprise (to me) that they didn't "design it in" from the beginning, since they had so much experience with the vouchers for so many years. This would have been an egregious flaw in the business requirements for the DDP from my business perspective - but, thankfully, no one asked me. That said, I hope they don't fix it before my vacation in June!!!!

Another logical voice joins the fray, welcome. I totally agree with everything you say. People that do not work in the IT industry have no idea how long it takes to implement a change, without impact to the total system. What seems trivial to the uninformed is actually quite a massive undertaking. I, for one, am not the least bit surprised that it has taken this long and longer to fix the mistakes.

 

[Nancyg56]

Unless Disney changes the plan and says something like this change was required due to the immoral, dishonest actions of our customers, and I'd be shocked if Disney made any such statement you won't know who was right.

My theory, shared by Peddler, is the plan is set up to allow for the few times in which kids skip meals. Disney would make a change if more people take advantage of this plan feature than Disney intended. Disney making a change, without a specific statement, wouldn't prove you correct.

I look at the plan similar to a buffet, Disney doesn't think very many guests will go back 8-10 times, if too many guests pig out then the policy will change. That doesn't mean guest who pig out today are violating any secret policy.

I agree. I do not believe that any organzation would allow this to happen if it was considered abuse. i also do not believe that there are so many people "maximizing" the plan so that the child credits are simply next to free adult meals while paying OOP for kids. It is too much work to do this IRL. Perhaps while checking prices it seems like a plan, but harder to implement and track while on vacation. I think that there are times when people will use a child credit for an adult meal, but more than likely this happens rarely.

 

[traviesojmt]

Just wondering. How much (on average) would it cost Disney for any given adult TS meal? What is their markup? Does anyone have a clue? As I was reading the various opinions, I was wondering if Disney might not come out ahead if someone chose to purchase kid's meals OOP. If 2 adults and 2 kids go to Disney for 3 nights. That would be 12 TS meals. Instead of going to 3 TS meals and using the credits outright, I now go to 6 TS meals and use only TS credit for adults. I am also paying OOP for 6 kid meals, right? At Chef Mickey's I would have to pay at least $22.00 for the kids meals. I realize that all kid's menus do not cost this much but if you throw in a few character meals, it would add up. Does this make any sense? What is Disney's overhead for the adult TS meals compared to what would be paid OOP for the kids?

I just can't see Disney letting this go if they were really losing money on the pooling of the credits as has been mentioned. Hope it makes sense, very tired as I am rattling this off.