Disney dining plan will NOT include grat in 2008

[theparsons]

Dreamfinder

I think the OP is upset that DDP will not include tip. This means that Servers will depend on what the guest leave for a tip which also depends on the service.

With the DDP, if a server worked 5 hours, serving 40 customers total, earned $9/customer for tip (based on 18% tip for $50 per meal ( appitizer, entree and desert)), that would come to $360 in tips that day.



Many posters here stated that they would still leave a tip, actually some mentioned leaving 20%.

Ok...if this math is accurate....and then they have to give 40% of that to the bussers, cook, bartenders, etc....that's over $200 still.....that's about $40 an hour for that 5 hour workday (not sure where you got 5 hours, but increasing the hours would presumably just increase the revenue, so I'll go with it).

I'd wager that's probably better income than most of the customers they are serving in the moderate TS...and equal to many in the high end TS.

What did you base your figures on though....is it first/second hand knowledge or an assumption? And of course you're assuming all 40 of those customers actually left a tip....the servers posting on this thread seem to indicate many don't leave them anything. Of course, I also don't think 40 customers in 5 hours is a realistic number.....haven't been to WDW yet, but in the nice resturant's we go to around town, most times there is one server per section...thinking of our favorite place, our fav waitress is probably handling 4-6 tables at all times....figure there are 4 people at each table and they all take 1 hour to eat, in a 5 hour day she'd have served 80-120 people. It's definitely hard work but if each of those 100 people left only $2 that's a very nice wage. In our state that would beabove the median (of course we're not Florida touristy center either).

 

[eeyoresnr]

Maybe your husband should become a server in your cafe

He's a full time firefighter and a part time police officer. he is really good at what he does, but somehow I can't see him waiting tables.

 

[theparsons]

You should be claiming all of your income regardless of whether it was a cash tip or in your paycheck.

Yep..and that's why IRS changed the laws....many who received tips as a major part of their income were not reporting them, or underreporting at least....and IRS doesn't like when you do that....so now employers have to report gross revenue sales and IRS makes assumptions about how much each server earned from those sales. If your numbers aren't close......well, let's just say that servers and others who live off their tips are more apt to be audited.

 

[eeyoresnr]

posted by BroadwayGirl...
With your broad experience, I'm sure you could also attest that working as a server also ends up being one of the most lucrative frontline WDW roles. I'm betting some of the full-time servers gross upwards of $70K/year versus full-time merchandise or attractions or resorts CMs who are lucky to gross $25K/year. What I'm trying to say is while this will impact servers, I have to look at the big picture and even with the changes I think servers will still be doing much better financially than most other frontline CMs.

BTW, you sound like the type of server anyone would be thrilled to see approaching their table
----------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the compliment. Your guess would be in the ball-park should they be in a great restaurant. I have worked in several and all but one was very lucrative... that one was worse than minumum wage. I think that for many WDW servers, they forget or are unaware of what servers make outside Disney. I worked at 2 well-known restaurants with decent check averages just outside DTD and was lucky to make $30 a day at lunch and almost never break 3 figures at dinner. At WDW I make 3 figures at lunch consistantly but I also work my tushy off for it. Honestly, I am not a fan of the plan, but I won't bite the hands that feed me (guest or mouse). Disney has a decent lock on feeding the guests on property (whether daily or lodging) and regardless of the means of them getting those guests into my seats, I thank them. Don't like the plan, but at least I am making Summer money in September vs. being closed for rehab or not scheduled at all due to lack of need.

Taking the grat off will seriously drop my income. It will still be greater than most other Orlando locations though. My fear with the new plan is the resentment that it has caused amongst the cast. When you are so unhappy about a situation, it is bound to be expressed (intentionally or unintentionally) to your guests. We have some really passionate cast members here (like disneyserver) who are very proud of their career and happy with it and are now dealing with this new challenge. As with all things, Disney has a way of coming out on top of the situation. I just adjust my attitude to make it work the best for me at that particular time.

This is where I got the idea in my head that Disney servers make $70,000. plus a year. I think KeepingQuiet is telling it like it is.

 

[surfergrl31]

After reading this thread I am in shock of some of the behavior on here. Sorry the mom is coming out of me. We are all here because we love disney and love to take vacations here so why is it necessary to attack people's occupation and various other sensitive subjects?

The bottom line is this:

Tips out
Disney- will probably raise the price (3% cost of living increase would be normal and I accept some raise) and take out the 18%. This is really increasing the cost without looking like they are. There is likely to be a backlash for doing such (why temp to perm is stated in contract)

Guests-loose level of convience with prepaying for your trip, carry more cash, but on the other hand can tip according to service.

Servers-most likely loose money, but with a few cases who might tip more since it isn't already included.

Looks to me like disney is really the only one with anything to gain from this change. If you don't mind the change then great you have no problem, but if you do mind then voice your opinion.

I have already heard the spill about not saying anything to the CM's when they themselves don't even know about it. Well that is a great way for everyone to be informed. Let disney know how you feel and if it doesn't change great. If disney does change it, well move on and look for more economical options. Either way not really a reason to promote rudeness. Everyone will loose something in the situation we will just have to suck it up and move on.

~Anyone else want to use the soapbox?~

 

[LandBoatRide]

I'm laughing at some of the estimates for what servers make.

First off, Disney does not hire full-time servers anymore and caps hours at 25 per week for part-timers.

Secondly, there is an assumption that a server makes tips the whole shift. In reality, the first 1 to 1.5 hours of a shift is spent opening a restaurant and doing sidework (opening kitchen and side stations, setting tables, pre-meal meetings, etc. etc.) Ditto for the end of a shift. No tips made for this time frame worked.

Thirdly, people are estimating that every guest is an adult. In reality, children make up nearly half of all guests, and infants (under 3) who in some places eat for free (i.e. no tip) make up a good chunk of guests also. Moreover, many adults split meals or have a cup of soup for their meal. Not every adult spends $50 or even $10 for their meal.

Fourth, part-time servers (about 70-80% of all disney servers) make $0 for every shift they are sick and cannot work, or any vacation time taken.

Fifth, many serving jobs are seasonal, as in don't expect a full restaurant in January, February, November, etc. The DDP has changed this in some regards as had a good economy/tourism base the last few years. But what about post 9/11, when the parks were bare? What did the servers make then??? What will they make next time the tourism cycle bursts?

Sixth, part time servers have to pay for their own health insurance and take out personal policies. They are not building retirement either.

As the issue of tipping out to bussers, food runners, food expoditers, and bartenders has already been raised, I won't expand on that.

In the end, servers generally do not make what many think they do. There will be exceptions but those are in the minority.

 

[UKDEB]

yes the guests from other countries are horrible tippers if they tip at all, the english are the worst, and the irish, and canadians if they tip at all its 5% and they all know we live off tips, its there excuse not to tip well because of the rep they have had for many years, and they dont read tip cards even if u put it right on top of there bill

I'm English and have been visiting WDW up to 3 times a year since 1992. I tip a minimum of 20%, often more. I am an AP holder with the DDE card and leave at least 20% of the pre-discount price. I'm well aware that many of my compatriots tip poorly or not at all. I always wonder whether servers get a sinking feeling when they approach our table and realise we're British. Even if I receive poor service (and I mean an offhand or churlish attitude; I never blame the server for slow service or the way my steak's cooked), I tip 20% because I don't want to be perceived as an ignorant Brit.

We also tip at restaurants in the UK, albeit at a lower level (usually around 10%). Servers here are paid a higher wage than in the US, but they're still amongst the lowest paid workers. Because tipping here isn't ingrained in our culture, I suspect that overall they earn less than their American colleagues. My understanding of the tipping culture in the US is that it's supposed to drive high service levels and my observations seem to bear that out. Service in the UK is less consistant and, on the whole, servers are less professional. Whilst I can see the attraction of having the tip included in the DDP for all concerned (it certainly keeps things simple), it detracts from the whole purpose of tipping in my view. It seems to me you either have a system whereby good service is rewarded at the discretion of the customer, or you do away with tipping altogether, pay the servers a set wage and increase the price of the food. By automatically adding gratuities to checks, or including them in the cost of the DDP, that's effectively what you're doing anyway. It would certainly take away the stress and uncertainty for servers (wondering whether or not they'll be fairly compensated), but my guess is they would ultimately earn less.

 

[UKDEB]

WOW! Just read this thread in it's entirety. Unfortunately, most of what disneyserver stated was true, however, the tone in which it was presented was less than diplomatic. He/she might be the best server you get.... at least they are passionate about what they do. I will say though, that I don't think requesting people to write/call Disney is a wise idea. When the rates are announced, you all will do as any consumer does and speak with your wallets which is so much louder than your voice.

As I have posted on another thread ("why I hate the DDP"), I make about the same amount of money annually since the inception of the DDP, but do at least twice as much work. It has been stated by at least half of the full-time servers at my location (full-time server positions at Disney are hard to come by and usually held by those with 10+ years of seniority and are coveted as they have guarunteed hours and medical/dental/vision and vacation/sick pay) that they will quit come the new year and how will Disney cope. I think this is a hugely arrogant mindset. At Disney, I still make more money, with or without the plan, than I can make at any other restaurant in the area. Many on the DISboards state that they usually tip additionally, you are definitely not the norm and I thank you. Will I leave over this new challenge? No way! I really enjoy working for WDW and have worked in almost every position you can imagine (except for attractions) and food and beverage is my favorite.

Regarding the Union: I am not a member for a few reasons. The biggest being that we tipped servers are the smallest catagory of membership in the union and as a result, we have very little voice there. I also have no choice, in or out of the union, but to accept whatever the contract is or quit. I am covered by the protections of the union though (which I find really ironic) and can even have a union representative join me in any sort of reprimand or disciplinary action to look out for my benefit (really, really ironic!). It is all a bunch of nonsense to me. At the end of the day, Disney and the union can do anything they want to because it is the guest who pays my wages. My $3.65 an hour only covers my taxes and I see it as a formality. I consider myself free labor.

I would like to note that reading on these boards has really driven home to me how my behavior, attitude and service will effect someone's vacation - maybe what is a once in a lifetime vacation for them. Also, it is well known that Disney management reads these boards. I only found out about their existance when I got a guest compliment from the board via my manager. Someone in the "read the boards" department (funny to think of that, sure it has some other name) passed it on. Therefore, identities must be kept hidden, would really stink to be fired for something you posted on a bboard.

What a sensible and well-balanced person you sound, keeping quiet . Perhaps you can answer my question. Does your heart sink when you serve on a table of Brits? Are you pleasantly surprised if they leave a decent tip?

 

[peggyjean123]

WIll the gratituty be based on menu price, or dining plan price? If you goto a restaurant and your bill is says the bill for 8 people is 250.00, but your on the dining plan you only pay $40 for the day, how can they charge you 45.00 for that 1 meal in tips, where as 18% of 40= 7.20 pp for the day. How is that fair, the dining plan will still benfit you, but not nearly as much.

 

[Disneyserver]

$7.50 a week? what a joke... my husband is a Firefighter and makes half of what you do in a year and pay $75.00 a month for union dues. and you want us to feel sorry for you because you may go down to $60,000. a year? sorry, not gonna happen here.

WIll the gratituty be based on menu price, or dining plan price? If you goto a restaurant and your bill is says the bill for 8 people is 250.00, but your on the dining plan you only pay $40 for the day, how can they charge you 45.00 for that 1 meal in tips, where as 18% of 40= 7.20 pp for the day. How is that fair, the dining plan will still benfit you, but not nearly as much.

The Grat if your a party of 6 or more on The meal package will be Grat on what you spend, Servers have to tip out on the total sales, not the 40 dollars you spend on the meal plan, But then again disney hasnt released any info on whether DDP will change or disapear come 2008 so just be patient and wait for a release in info, and if it doesnt work for you call and complain to guest relations thats why there for... Have a magical day

 

[kaytieeldr]

For those of you who are so offended by Disneyserver's comments, then I suggest that you are a little out of touch with reality. The truth is that some people are rude to their waiters or waitresses & I imagine that it's even worse at WDW.

Some people are, but most people aren't. Disneyserver made several offensive/negative generalizations based on, apparently, where diners are presumed to be from or what they paid for the DDP. That in itself is an interesting, unsupported observation, given that many Guests on the DDP, even during the free promotion period, actually PAID for the Plan - think unaware Guests, DVC Guests, Guests arriving before the free start date....

Think about how you would feel if you were just informed that your pay were being drastically reduced and you had zero control over it, which is what's happening to WDW servers.

First, does anybody know what percentage of Guests have used the Disney Dining Plan over the last two and a half years? Because the difference between that and 100% represents Guests who paid for their meals on the spot, and apparently tipped at that time. Second, given that the DDP is only slightly less than 2.5 years old, and that MOST Guests don't visit every year, Guests tipped before the DDP, Guests tipped during the DDP, and Guests will continue to tip after the DDP no longer includes the tip.

As for the tipping-recommendation cards? I remember getting those in the check folder in 2005, at every meal. They did disappear (or I didn't notice them) in 2006; now, apparently, they'll be back.

You should be claiming all of your income regardless of whether it was a cash tip or in your paycheck.

I do decare all My tips, and dont be so Harsh,

If you do (and did always) declare all your tips, how does having them paid in your paycheck put you (or any server who declares all her/his tips) into a new tax bracket? Mickeyluver wasn't being harsh, simply stating facts as per IRS regulations.

the DDP has added more money to our pockets, and the grat went to our paychecks that made all of us into a new tax bracket

and second of all, Not every restuarant on property is a gold mine either, we wait around for guests to want a break from the character locations to enjoy good dinner so stop being so nasty and go on with your day

I'm confused again. Are you saying NOT all the restaurants onsite are constantly busy and full of diners, to the point that it's close to impossible to get a walk-up table? That would imply that the Guests (locals, DVCers, APers, etc) upset about not being able to make last-minute plans would be wrong?

 

[kaytieeldr]

TRAVELGIRL06...After that post it seems to me you could take some of your own advise..give me a break...i am reallly tired of all you ddp'ers

Having reread Travelgirl's entire post (# 229 in this thread, in its original/unedited condition as of 10:30 AM 6/9/07), I see just ONE word misspelled and possibly one word missing, or maybe not. The entire post is punctuated correctly, only letters that need to be capitalized have been, and the MESSAGE is clearly-written, easily understandable, says exactly what the poster intends, and doesn't have an exasperated or other annoyed tone.

 

[ilovefh]

Well that's good to know, then. Why the comment about tips being in your paycheck pushing you in a higher tax bracket?

I have been a server in the past, and always tip very well. However, I have other server/former server friends that go as far as to only pay in cash so the server doesn't have to claim it all, and this seems to be more the norm in the industry. They seem to think they are "getting screwed" when the tip is paid via credit card and they have to claim more than the 8% that is reported.

I'm a part time server in NH (hey education does not pay much!) and I do feel "screwed" sometimes when I have all credit card tips that automatically get reported. That is normally not what I take home. I tip out 8% of my alcohol sales to the bar tender and 10% of my tips to the busser. While I definitely appreciate our bussers (they are better than any bussers I've ever worked with) I hate that I pay taxes on money I've given to them. If a table orders $20 in alcohol (which is normally min for our restaurant) I have to tip out 1.60 to the bar tender and tip the busser too. Our average meal prices are $16-25. There are some nights when I tip out as much as $30 to the busser and bartender. That is not me being generous but paying the minimum company policy. If all my tips are credit cards tips and are automatically reported I just got taxed on $30 that I did take home. That I think should be taken into account and I should have to claim $30 less and the busser and bartender should have to claim that amount.

Sorry this post rambled! Hope it isn't too confusing! As for the DDP if grat is taken out we won't use it. We don't normally get and app, entree and dessert per person, so the DDP was an affordable way to try new things for us. With what we oder than would put us paying an extra $20/day when we normally could have eaten with tax and tip for less. ( we normally share a meal and an app).

 

[kaytieeldr]

If all my tips are credit cards tips and are automatically reported I just got taxed on $30 that I did take home. That I think should be taken into account and I should have to claim $30 less and the busser and bartender should have to claim that amount.

I think, in all seriousness, this issue should be taken up with your employer and, if that doesn't work, the state labor department. This holds true for ALL servers.

 

[TDC Nala]

Don't get the logic inherent in the idea of, in effect, encouraging DDE members to tip less than they customarily would (everybody I know just adds back in the 20% discount). Not many are going to add that extra two percent in, although they'll probably leave more if the service is exemplary.

 

[ilovefh]

I think, in all seriousness, this issue should be taken up with your employer and, if that doesn't work, the state labor department. This holds true for ALL servers.

I agree! Problem is that is the policy in eveyr restaurant I've worked in. The other problem is in some restaurants the bartenders claim their tips (including what I gave them) the bussers claim their tips (including what I gave them) and I claim my tips (including the amount I gave to them) so the money is being double taxed. With all that said I still make out pretty decently! Although I make nothing compared to what my coworkers made at CRT when I worked there in 2001-2002. (as should be expected, I live in NH not WDW!) This was when only breakfast was a character meal.

 

[agnes!]

Don't get the logic inherent in the idea of, in effect, encouraging DDE members to tip less than they customarily would (everybody I know just adds back in the 20% discount). Not many are going to add that extra two percent in, although they'll probably leave more if the service is exemplary.

Hey Nala, good to "see" you .
I'm still somewhat confused myself about the possible DDE changes, wish Disney would stop "fixing" things that aren't broken in the *first* place, like the original Imagination ride, pin-trading, etc.

agnes!

 

[GreatLakes5]

Thought of this thread as we sat at Bob Evan's this morning & received the bill. I watched the other waitresses - one had family at a table and routinely would sit with this table to chit chat a bit. Another had some hygeine "issues" that would have left me not eating my food Our server was FANTASTIC...and ya know what? We tipped accordingly.

I then bought my child a cookie at Mrs. Field's in the mall where a teenager grunted, gave me the cookies, and I was paying with a big ol' TIPS jar sitting on the counter. Honestly? I felt like she probably owed me about $1.50 out of the jar

All servers run the 'risk' of what will be left as a tip - WDW is not unusual. But remember that tipping is OPTIONAL - just as each server has the OPTION of going the extra mile or grunting and barely making eye contact.

No one is begrudging someone from making a decent living, and it is sad if many servers have budgetted their lives based on receiving tips regardless of the customer & the service because of the DDP's automatic payment policy. Granted, we all have choices to make in life and there does come a point where if you aren't able to make ends meet in a field, you consider entering a different one.

As for benefits - Disney financial gurus know their price points....there is a max that consumers are willing to pay. Unfortunately, the more benefit cost you add to a server, the higher the prices to consumers. As the wife of a business owner I understand this. We are simply unable to offer paid insurance to our employees. We would be unable to get enough contracts to sustain our business if we had to figure in the cost of insurance to the quote we give customers. Would employees rather have a job or be laid off because we can't get enough work coming in? (The answer is, they'd rather have jobs.) Would WDW close because of servers getting health insurance? Probably not....BUT would the bottom line change, would share holders complain because the price drops, would more consumers opt out of their annual vacation because the costs have been raised too much? Sure thing. It's Econ 101.

 

[wolverine2010]

I for one think that the cm's on this thread have been honest and have alot of heart..sometimes people on this board are beyond rude...I would like to thank the cm's for posting and saying whats on there mind or there opinions...this is a DIScusion board is it not??...To me the cm's bring alot to the table and are disrespected in this thread...my family has been going to WDW for 6 plus years as ap's and have allways been treated with the upmost respect and helpfullness from esp the servers w/have had...is this a DDP problem???..maybe..maybe not...i find some peoples responses are way out there...ok i vented...and yes i have/use DDE

 

[TripTime]

I just want to thank all of you who are responding to this thread. I am new here but must admit that this thread has entertained me for the last few days.My two cents on this subject is that even though I have never done the DDP ,I was planning on trying it next year. If what is being said is true I will probably not try it. That said, I am not going to let it ruin my time at Disney or boycot the park, or go to a different park because of this. I have been going to Disney without the DDP and have managed to fill my belly and have a good time.