Disney confirming to TAs: BRP now REPLACES AP codes

[petchie]

and when will the airlines up rates and add more fuel tax!?

 

[WaltD4Me]

I'm actually very surprised the airlines haven't done this yet........

I think recent events are going to effect travel close to the effect 9/11 had on travel. And so I bet those AP rates will be back. -- Not trying to be smarmy or flip and knowing full well, no one wants them back this way.

Aside from that, can you imagine the hit Disney is taking on the cost of gas just for the buses alone?

 

[WillCAD]

WillCAD, you can believe what you want to believe. But I still believe that the average joe who goes to Disney World every two years is just as loyal as someone who goes every six months. It's the desire to return - not the number of times. But that's my opinion.

So somebody who went to WDW once ten or fifteen years ago, but REALY, REALY wants to return is just as loyal as somebody who goes once a year? Sorry, that doesn't compute. A person is defined by his actions; it's what you DO that counts in life, not what you believe, think, feel, or want.

I guess I tend to look at both sides and have a different understanding than some. Does that mean I think Disney is perfect? No. Do they need to improve procedures, service, facilities, policies? YES. Do I think if a clerk calls me and tells me one thing then the company changes the policy shortly after that the clerk lied? NO. Things change and you adjust and adapt. You can write letters to complain - and I certainly do. But I don't call people liars over things like this.

To me a liar is someone who says something that is not true. Disney, the company, said AP call-in rates would not go away. They said it to hundreds of people who complained about the BRP when it was initiated, and now they are going back on that. That makes the company a liar, not the individual CMs who called and passed the lie on to the public. And they are STILL telling that lie - people who have called in the last 3 or 4 days have had a 50/50 chance of getting "No more call-in AP rates" or "Call-in AP rates will be out any day now."

Perhaps Disney should change the wording on the AP sleeve to reflect their release of AP rates - from "periodic" to "occasional" so people don't misinterpret. According to dictionary.com's Usage Note on the word periodic: "In technical use, periodic means “at regular or predictable intervals,” as in the Periodic Table of the Elements. Often, however, periodic is used to mean “occasional, intermittent.” This usage can be confusing for readers who are accustomed to the narrower sense of the word ... The ambiguity can be avoided here by using occasional instead."

So I guess if I see the term periodic, I've always understood it to mean occasional - not something I'm necessarily entitled to in any way, shape or form based on historic release, especially in recent years where tourism was down. How someone can say they know and understand the rates are not guaranteed, but then they stress that they still expect them... that's what I don't understand.

Well, let me reiterate what I said before:

That's why I bought my APs as well. I am not an idiot who doesn't understand the term "not guaranteed"; I have always hoped for AP rates and only thought I was entitled to what's spelled out in the Passholder sleeve. I have never been one of those who whines, "without the AP rates, there's really no incentive for me to buy an AP," because that is blatantly untrue. As you said, the primary benefit to buying an AP is that, for the price of about 11 days admission, you get 365 days of admission.

What I'm steamed about is that Disney said the AP call-in rates would definitely not be eliminated, and now they are telling us otherwise. No matter how you slice it, that's a lie, and that ticks me off to no end.

If you want to nitpick all the dirt in a crack on the sidewalk or keep track of which condiment bar was a mess, go ahead. I guess I'll keep my rose-colored glasses on and just be glad I'm in a place as wonderful as Disney World. I've also been known to clean up a mess that I didn't create just so the next person doesn't have to look at it. I saw a napkin thrown on the ground at Kentucky Kingdom and threw it away - I didn't think that the park was untidy - I was irritated that a person visiting the park would drop it and not pick it up. I personally think the Disney World CMs do a fantastic job at keeping the parks and resorts clean - and they're working to improve it every day.

Thank you for cleaning up after others. That makes you a conscientious Guest who has consideration for others in your heart as you enjoy your own vacation.

However, I don't consider it nit-picking to notice when an entire park has gone to pot, especially when I remember the days when every bathroom at WDW had a full-time attendant and was clean enough to eat your lunch in. Yes, the CMs do a fantastic job, for the most part, but there are half as many janitorial CMs as there were 5 years ago, and CMs the World over are getting insufficient and incomplete training. They may be better than Cedar Point or King's Dominion employees, but they are inferior to the WDW CMs of 5 years ago.

And a little advice - those who wear rose-colored glasses often trip over their own feet and fall flat on their face. You don't have to turn yourself into a mindless drone to enjoy a WDW vacation, or even to achieve Walt's "suspension of disbelief". But it helps if the bathrooms are not flooded and smelly.

In this day and age when people need to escape from the horrific things going on in the world, I don't think I'll be searching out Disney flaws. And certainly not keeping track of them. I'll instead keep trying to help other DISers in pursuit of their little bit of happiness and hope the entitlement mentality goes out of style.

I Don't have the entitlement mentality. Well, there is one thing I think I'm entitled to - the truth. Honesty. I don't like it when a company lies to me, and that's what Disney has been doing. If they wanted to take away the call-in AP rates, I would have been horribly disappointed, and I would have expressed my opinion about it in a letter, but I would not have been angry. I am angry because Disney lied to me about it.

And keep in mind that focusing on the minutia of our Disney trips, even to the point of complaining about shortcomings, is one way in which people escape the horrific parts of life. You think I'm as concerned about this crap as I am about my friends in the south who have lost their homes to Katrina and are now in danger from flooding, lack of food and potable water, diseases spread by dirty flood waters, and even being shot by looters? If you do, you're crazy; but I focus on Disney and it calms me down a bit, even when I focus on the bad aspects of Disney. I'd rather feel the healthy outrage over being lied to than the constant, sickening worry about my friends' lives and safety.

 

[kirbsam]

according to the op, this info came from magical journeys, i have been to their website many times since this info was posted, and they still claim this system has not replaced the other ap rates we have all become accustomed to. i know they update their website, because they have put hurricane katrina info on it. so unlike many on these boards, i choose to not rant and get upset. i will wait until some reliable information comes out and then decide what to do next.

 

[WDWBetsy]

So somebody who went to WDW once ten or fifteen years ago, but REALY, REALY wants to return is just as loyal as somebody who goes once a year? Sorry, that doesn't compute. A person is defined by his actions; it's what you DO that counts in life, not what you believe, think, feel, or want.

Did I say that? No. I just don't think that you are any more loyal than I am just because you go to Disney every year and that's how you're quantifying it. Big deal. I choose to support Disney in other ways - as a shareholder, spending money via other Disney travel and purchases, etc. Loyalty doesn't mean that I have to go stay in a discounted AP room and spend money in their restaurants and parks. Loyalty isn't how much you spend. It's a devotion and adoration for something you love - especially in times of trouble.

To me it's an allegiance. Not hostility when things don't go your way or when there's a misunderstanding or change. Actually, even if they changed the program to strictly BR online bookings, I think they're keeping their end of the deal as it pertains to the periodic discounts.

And a little advice - those who wear rose-colored glasses often trip over their own feet and fall flat on their face. You don't have to turn yourself into a mindless drone to enjoy a WDW vacation, or even to achieve Walt's "suspension of disbelief". But it helps if the bathrooms are not flooded and smelly.

They also see the glass as half full. I don't think that's such a bad thing. But it also helps me not get upset over stupid stuff.

I Don't have the entitlement mentality.

I never said you did. But there are an awful lot of people who do. It's all about "What do I get?" or "Why did he get an upgrade and I didn't?" or "What's in it for me?" - that's all I'm saying. And a lot of posts reflect this.

Well, there is one thing I think I'm entitled to - the truth. Honesty. I don't like it when a company lies to me, and that's what Disney has been doing. If they wanted to take away the call-in AP rates, I would have been horribly disappointed, and I would have expressed my opinion about it in a letter, but I would not have been angry. I am angry because Disney lied to me about it.

This is what I don't understand. You're basing your reasoning and hostility over a CM telling you something he believed was true at the time. Something that quite possibly changed after the fact by people higher up the ladder. That doesn't mean he lied to you or that Disney lied. It means the program POSSIBLY changed and you were not notified. That's not a lie.

A lie is a false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
Something meant to deceive or give a wrong impression.

What you experienced was a possible change in policy - if this supposed change is even true. Until I see an official statement, I would not get bent out of shape over it. Furthermore - It's not like the AP rates are being discontinued. Disney doesn't have to guarantee any method of releasing AP rates to you at all - they have advertised the AP rates as periodic on the passholder sleeve and how they choose to release them is up to them.

 

[lillygator]

WillCad - you seem so angry at WDW, I'm curious, are you going to continue to be "loyal" (as you call it)?

 

[WillCAD]

WillCad - you seem so angry at WDW, I'm curious, are you going to continue to be "loyal" (as you call it)?

That's a very difficult question to answer.

I still have a trip planned for December to attend MouseFest, and I still intend to make it - but I will be cancelling my ressie at Pop Century and going off-site. Partly this is because I'm mad and voting with my feet, but mostly it's because I refuse to make ANY non-refundable travel arangements, which means no BRP for me, and that leaves me paying rack rate, which I simply can't afford. So I'm off-site again.

As for next year, I am very seriously considering a Vegas trip instead of WDW. Having gone to WDW to the exclusion of all other destinations for 15 years in a row, I have a long list of places to see and things to do outside of Orlando, and the first one on my list is Vegas, possibly splitting a week between there and L.A. I haven't made up my mind yet, but I've been toying with the idea of a Vegas/L.A. trip for several years now, so the possibility is actually pretty exciting.

No matter what, though, I know that I will eventually be back to WDW. Whether it's 2 years from now or more, I cannot get the place out of my heart.

 

[cjsmom5]

Yesterday I got a call from Disney Guest Services/Exec Office regarding my lengthy letter on the Best Rate Program and AP rates. The gal was wonderful and did an excellent job in answering my questions, being honest, and assuring me that others "up the line" would definitely "hear" my concerns and comments. Below is a quick summary of our discussion, as an FYI. What she told me, if you read between the lines, both agrees with and contradicts the information originally posted.

We talked for about 1/2 hour. Basically, what it came down to is this ...

1) Disney is saying that there will not be any new AP rates that come out other than through the BRP. But she said they originally said the 120 days wouldn't change and obviously it did -- since they just lowered it to 60 days.

2) She said they are being bombarded with emails and letters about the BRP. While she wouldn't specifically tell me their leaning she very much "implied" that there were many, many, many, many people upset and even MAD about the new BRP program. We talked about the fact that the non-refundable deposit is a hard pill to swollow -- especially 120 days out and even 60 days out especially in light of the current cancellation policy on the package and room only rates. I explained that there was a lot of concern that Disney is going to change the refund policy on both pac kages and room only. Again, she indicated that this seemed to be a common concern among MANY.

3) If a new AP rate were to come out those with ressies under the BRP would not automatically get that rate. They would have to call and have the new rate applied. She said that many, many, many people are voicing the opinion that they are VERY upset about this. We talked about the fact that I felt, as many on the boards also felt, that the lower rate should be automatically applied to a ressie that was in the BRP since the program was suppose to be the best AP rate available... She told me that lots of emails were also voicing this concern, too. And, she indicated that everyone should "stay tuned" as new policies, etc. seem to be coming forward quite rapidly when it comes to this program.

4) She was very sympathetic to my concerns and said that ALL emails, letters, calls are being documented and ALL info is being passed on up the line. She indicated that the 120 days was changed to 60 days out --- she assumed -- due to the enormous influx of correspondence from AP holders.

5) I explained my concern to her regarding the huge increase in price from last year's AP rate to this year for same time/same property.... and how I felt it was way too much of an increase for one year. I also told her that as a business, I understand they have every right to price their product as they see fit .... but that as I consumer I also have the option of no longer purchasing the product. We also talked about the fact that if Disney continues these increases that the "most loyal and fanatic" Disney AP holders, who often dramatically help their occupancy rates in the value season, may choose to alter their vacation spending habits and look to spend their money elsewhere. She said that they had also received many emails and letters stating just that.

Overall, she told me that, the official word from Disney is that they will not be offering any lower AP rates, but that I should "stay tuned" as things seem to change regularly. Also, that the NO BRP reservations would automatically receive a lower AP rate if it were offered -- that would still be handled how it was in the past by the ressie holder calling and having it applied to the reservation. But she also said, stay tuned ... as is evidenced by the fact that the booking changed from 120 to 60 days out... just a few days ago.

 

[PrincessMo]

Wow, what is going on. I received an email response from them yesterday saying the exact opposite. That the usual AP discounts thru Disney Reservation Center will still still be available.

What to believe??

 

[cjsmom5]

I think it is all a matter of interpretation. The usual AP discounts are available but through the BRP program, online. Just as their announcement that rates would be lowered on the BRP program if any lower "public" rates were brought out.

As the person told me, stay tuned, as it seems to change regularly. I would venture to say daily....

 

[WillCAD]

Well, I got a reply to my nasty-gram today. Funny, the first one took 10 days to get a replay, this one only took 3.

Hello, this message is for William. This is Joseph again calling from Walt Disney World. I do want to thank you very much for the email message that you sent and I do appologize if there was any confusion with the initial message that I had left for you back in June, and uh, certainly do appreciate your comments and I am sorry that you were dissapointed.

At the time that the message was left the information was accurate, and we had no intention of modifying the usual program which was still currently running, and is still currently running until October 4. So again I do appologize again for that confusion. You are welcome to give me a call 407-828-4980 - obviously, I know you've got my number. If you'd like to give me a call I certainly would be happy to uh, discuss that with you. Otherwise, your comments are noted, and again, I do appreciate them very much, though, here at Walt Disney World, and thank you for your time. Have a great day.

 

[Sammie]

according to the op, this info came from magical journeys, i have been to their website many times since this info was posted, and they still claim this system has not replaced the other ap rates we have all become accustomed to. i know they update their website, because they have put hurricane katrina info on it. so unlike many on these boards, i choose to not rant and get upset. i will wait until some reliable information comes out and then decide what to do next.

A very wise choice. I have a friend that works at DRC, the situation changes so much, so quickly he won't even email a response to a question about AP discounts. He will only tell me by phone that, he truly does not know.

At this time, only Best Rate is available, but anything could change and only Marketing will decide and even they don't know too far into the future.

Supply and demand will determine changes. This is nothing new. If rooms stay filled with Best Rate, Florida Resident, AAA, group sales, and rack rates. Nothing else will be needed. If that is not the case, then some other offer may appear.

 

[cjsmom5]

As the CS person from Disney said ... stand by ... things seem to change daily. I really do think that the Disney CROs and all the TAs are telling us what they know. The problem is that it changes constantly. While it is frustrating ... I look at what is happening in New Orleans and think how very fortunate I am to just be able to go to WDW. I have my home, family, friends, etc.... so whatever happens ... happens. It will be interesting to see if anything changes ....

 

[WillCAD]

according to the op, this info came from magical journeys, i have been to their website many times since this info was posted, and they still claim this system has not replaced the other ap rates we have all become accustomed to. i know they update their website, because they have put hurricane katrina info on it. so unlike many on these boards, i choose to not rant and get upset. i will wait until some reliable information comes out and then decide what to do next.

http://www.yourmagicaljourneys.com/Disney/BESTRATE.htm

Scroll to the bottom of the page and look at the section in bold.

 

[cjsmom5]

Thanks WilCAD ... that confirms what some of us have been hearing...and it appears to have just been added to the Magical Journeys page ... note the date.

9/1/2005 We are being told that the new "Passholder Best Rate Program" will replace the old Annual Passholder system as of 8/25/2005. Whether they maintain this policy in light of the recent devastation of a large portion of the SE United States, and the upturn of fuel prices (which will impact travel) remains to be seen.
Passholder discount offers will still be available through your Magical Journeys Travel Agent.

This is what I was told in my conversation on Wednesday with Disney. But, I would imagine in light of the current disaster and depending on its affect on the economy, tourism, etc. they may re-evaluate this policy. I don't know but would guess that this disaster will have an affect on tourism ... exactly how it will specifically affect WDW is yet to be seen. Stay tuned.​

 

[Magicaltimes]

I wonder if Disney had a lot of cancelations due to devistation here in Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana. This Holiday weekend should tell the story. I know my brother cancelled because they cannot afford gas and their power was out for 4 days. Many people where I live are afraid of the gas shortage and prices. Every gas station around where I live is close to $4.00 a gallon and out of gas. We have many friends absolutely devistated by this disaster. Some have lost family members. If I had a non-refundable deposit right now I would be very, very, upset! Those traveling thru Atlanta good luck..low on gas and nearly $6.00 a gallon. That is not a rumor.
My husband and I know we will not be traveling to Disney as much. We went to Disney on 4 short trips this year but with the BRP that will no longer be the case. Hey Willcad Vegas sounds like fun!!

 

[WDW Poly Princess]

I apologize if this has already been posted and I missed it, but does anyone have the e-mail address to contact Disney about this handy? I looked on the website for a way to contact with feedback, but couldn't find anything. I would really like to send them my opinion, especially since they've commented that they are documenting the feedback. Hopefuly with enough feedback, they will listen and make some changes.

I have a feeling that between the hurricane and gas prices, travel for the upcoming months is going to go way down. Someone posted earlier in the thread that they didn't think that gas prices were going to have much impact on how busy WDW is, but I have to disagree. I work in a pretty small hotel (100 rooms) and we have been getting an average of 5 cancelations per day because people don't want to drive when gas is so expensive. Now, 5% of our room total is only 5 people, but if the same basic percentage are canceling at Disney? That's a whole lotta cancelations!

 

[zakerdog]

My DH just went over to our neighbors to firm up plans to pick up their mail for them when they leave for Disney next week. Guess what - the concern over gas rations and high cost have them cancelling their trip. They said they will postpone until next spring.

 

[karebear1]

I actually called WDW today to "modify" my BRP ressies and asked them if they had had a lot of cancellations bdue to the hurricane. I spoke to 2 different CM's and they said they were surprised that they hadn't had many at all. I thought people would be cancelling right and left, but I guess the difference is that this was a natural disaster compared to a man made (terrorist) disaster.

 

[WillCAD]

I apologize if this has already been posted and I missed it, but does anyone have the e-mail address to contact Disney about this handy? I looked on the website for a way to contact with feedback, but couldn't find anything. I would really like to send them my opinion, especially since they've commented that they are documenting the feedback. Hopefuly with enough feedback, they will listen and make some changes.

We can only hope...

wdw.guest.communications@disneyworld.com