Disney buys ground at Cozumel?

[LAS2AMS]

I’m not ignoring anything. Disney made CC work for over a decade with only 2 ships. And is making LC work now averaging only 3-4 calls per week.

They are going to have ~10 different ships sailing in the Caribbean within the next few years. If they want to develop another private port destination they can certainly get to it 3-4 times per week and make it work.

You do continue to ignore facts.

Do you think DCL operated with just two ships for over a decade because it was an overwhelming success? Plenty of reports that they looked to offload it during the 2000s (and almost struck a deal, with Norwegian IIRC). I doubt DCL turned a profit for Disney until relatively recently (last 10 years or less), so no CC didn’t work for them with just 2 ships.

LP cost at least $600M to build. I doubt it’s making money for Disney - it’s a long-term investment and Disney intends to increase calls there. They kinda have to per their agreement with the Bahamas.

We already have a good idea of where the new ships are headed two. Itineraries have been released for two of them. We know two more are headed to Galveston and Tokyo. That leaves three ships. We know that DCL has said they want to be at LA/SD year-round, return to NYC, increase San Juan and add a second seasonal ship in Europe (with a longer season). And that’s assuming they don’t retire the Magic/ Wonder, which I will bet will happen.

We know that DCL will be heavy on PC/ PE - Bahamas, based upon their contract. That’s why they sunk so much $$$ into LP. And 3/4/5 day cruises to the Bahamas is much cheaper to operate than Western Caribbean. And fits better into the DCL model.

Again… wishful thinking.

 

[Scalemaster34]

Probably my only other thought on this is that Disney will steer away from buying land at Cozumel specifically, but if they did anything in the area, they'd probably look north near Progreso or south toward Costa Maya.

Edit to add: maybe they'd look at a partnership with the Cuban government. Kinda wild from a risk perspective, but Disney actually does really well negotiating with governments (I really mean this as no joke, they've worked closely and very successfully with French, Chinese, and now UAE governments over the years). If they had a private "island" concept either on the western tip of Cuba or north coast of the Yucatan, they'd have a location that would work well even for cruises departing from Florida and would probably work very well with 5- or 6-night cruises from Galveston.

They'd have to get the US Government to allow it... as there are restrictions on leisure travel to Cuba again. But its too much of an unknown... what Cuba is today, might change in a decade.

But I could see them just find an area where a port is or could be added (long pier is fine it seems).... and nearby beach. Mexico has a very long coast and a number of islands.

 

[jwalk03]

They'd have to get the US Government to allow it... as there are restrictions on leisure travel to Cuba again. But its too much of an unknown... what Cuba is today, might change in a decade.

But I could see them just find an area where a port is or could be added (long pier is fine it seems).... and nearby beach. Mexico has a very long coast and a number of islands.

Yeah I can't imagine Cuba remotely being an option. Disney is way too risk averse for that. Mexico makes way way more sense.

 

[peder]

Yeah I can't imagine Cuba remotely being an option. Disney is way too risk averse for that. Mexico makes way way more sense.

But Disney almost prides itself in their ability to navigate complex relationships like that. Everything from the way they bought land in Florida decades ago without detection, to the way they landed in Communist China, they're really skilled at this. And it's a competitive advantage for Disney, meaning it's one area where they tend to prefer some risk because they know they're very good at it.

Disney would probably lobby for a permanent exemption from the US govt to operate in Cuba. Disney doesn't care if it's an unfair carve-out that hurts other cruise companies, and Disney has the power to make something like that happen. I'm not sure it makes sense to use that political capital for that purpose, but a couple of travel and banking restrictions are hardly a real blocker for Disney.

Plus, these travel and financial restrictions on Cuba were already lifted under Obama. Seems like the writing is on the wall for normalization with Cuba.

 

[jwalk03]

But Disney almost prides itself in their ability to navigate complex relationships like that. Everything from the way they bought land in Florida decades ago without detection, to the way they landed in Communist China, they're really skilled at this. And it's a competitive advantage for Disney, meaning it's one area where they tend to prefer some risk because they know they're very good at it.

Disney would probably lobby for a permanent exemption from the US govt to operate in Cuba. Disney doesn't care if it's an unfair carve-out that hurts other cruise companies, and Disney has the power to make something like that happen. I'm not sure it makes sense to use that political capital for that purpose, but a couple of travel and banking restrictions are hardly a real blocker for Disney.

Plus, these travel and financial restrictions on Cuba were already lifted under Obama. Seems like the writing is on the wall for normalization with Cuba.

The current Administration has reversed most of the easing of tensions that occurred with Cuba under Obama and Biden- and quite frankly I'm not sure how much political capital Disney has with this Administration either. Normalization with Cuba isn't happening anytime soon.

 

[LAS2AMS]

Most of DCL’s itineraries from PC and PE will continue to be 3/4/5 nights, heading to the Bahamas including LP and CC.

We already know the itineraries of the Destiny and Adventure. Of the 5 ships to be delivered, we know that one will be home ported in Japan and another (not necessarily a new build, but an allotted) at Galveston.

Several of Destiny’s itineraries include Cozumel and LP and/ or CC. What’s the point in creating a Disney port at Cozumel? It’s hardly game changing if you’re already stopping at LP and/ or CC. People do go to Cozumel because they want to visit there.

Disney has indicated they plan to serve LA/SD year-round, return to NYC, increase SJU and add more sailings to Europe.

Ultimately, we sorta know what the future holds.

 

[jwalk03]

Most of DCL’s itineraries from PC and PE will continue to be 3/4/5 nights, heading to the Bahamas including LP and CC.

We already know the itineraries of the Destiny and Adventure. Of the 5 ships to be delivered, we know that one will be home ported in Japan and another (not necessarily a new build, but an allotted) at Galveston.

Several of Destiny’s itineraries include Cozumel and LP and/ or CC. What’s the point in creating a Disney port at Cozumel? It’s hardly game changing if you’re already stopping at LP and/ or CC. People do go to Cozumel because they want to visit there.

Disney has indicated they plan to serve LA/SD year-round, return to NYC, increase SJU and add more sailings to Europe.

Ultimately, we sorta know what the future holds.

I hope you are right about San Juan- but where has Disney said this?

Same with NYC- has Disney actually said they plan to do this? (or any other actual evidence?)

Those are home ports that are frequently mentioned here- but I don't recall any actual info that indicates that is what Disney is planning to do.

There is definitely evidence to support year round sailings from Southern California and Galveston from the local government and port authorities respectively.

The rest sounds like wishful thinking...

 

[Kwami]

I hope you are right about San Juan- but where has Disney said this?

Same with NYC- has Disney actually said they plan to do this? (or any other actual evidence?)

Those are home ports that are frequently mentioned here- but I don't recall any actual info that indicates that is what Disney is planning to do.

There is definitely evidence to support year round sailings from Southern California and Galveston from the local government and port authorities respectively.

I don't remember Disney committing a second ship to Europe for a longer season, either. Did I just miss the announcement?

 

[jwalk03]

I don't remember Disney committing a second ship to Europe for a longer season, either. Did I just miss the announcement?

You didn't miss any announcement that I am aware of.

 

[LAS2AMS]

I hope you are right about San Juan- but where has Disney said this?

Same with NYC- has Disney actually said they plan to do this? (or any other actual evidence?)

Those are home ports that are frequently mentioned here- but I don't recall any actual info that indicates that is what Disney is planning to do.

There is definitely evidence to support year round sailings from Southern California and Galveston from the local government and port authorities respectively.

The rest sounds like wishful thinking...

I never said there was an announcement. I’m going off what’s been printed (nothing concrete but fluff pieces). It’s not wishful thinking - I have zero desire to sail from New York, and Disney would not be my first choice in Europe.

My wishful thinking would be summer from SD/LA, but even though they’ve talked about year-round service, I doubt it will happen (ship will likely be in Alaska then). I live in SoCal and generally prefer to stay home in the summer (why travel to miserable weather when it’s perfect here).

 

[Kwami]

I never said there was an announcement. I’m going off what’s been printed (nothing concrete but fluff pieces). It’s not wishful thinking - I have zero desire to sail from New York, and Disney would not be my first choice in Europe.

My wishful thinking would be summer from SD/LA, but even though they’ve talked about year-round service, I doubt it will happen (ship will likely be in Alaska then). I live in SoCal and generally prefer to stay home in the summer (why travel to miserable weather when it’s perfect here).

If there's nothing but fluff pieces, then how do you know that Disney isn't planning more calls to Cozumel? Or a ship in NOLA? Or two in Galveston?

 

[LAS2AMS]

If there's nothing but fluff pieces, then how do you know that Disney isn't planning more calls to Cozumel? Or a ship in NOLA? Or two in Galveston?

Because.i believe there’s some truth to them as it’s where DCL has regularly sailed from.

It’s also rational. Do I think that DCL is going to add service to LA/SD - a market with a huge Disney fan base - or add a 13th sailing from Florida because some people dream of a Disney port in Cozumel?

Since we’re fantasying about Disney ports at places with minimal service, why not Ensenada? The place is otherwise a &!£¥ hole.

Pretty credible, connected Disney bloggers claimed New Orleans didn’t meet expectations. I would bet against DCL returning there.

 

[jwalk03]

I never said there was an announcement. I’m going off what’s been printed (nothing concrete but fluff pieces). It’s not wishful thinking - I have zero desire to sail from New York, and Disney would not be my first choice in Europe.

My wishful thinking would be summer from SD/LA, but even though they’ve talked about year-round service, I doubt it will happen (ship will likely be in Alaska then). I live in SoCal and generally prefer to stay home in the summer (why travel to miserable weather when it’s perfect here).

Printed somewhere other than a message board? Not exactly a reliable source.

 

[LAS2AMS]

Printed somewhere other than a message board? Not exactly a reliable source.

I go based off of what credible, connected people report, not internet message forums. Shame on me if I believe Disney is far more likely to enter NYC then add a 10th ship to Florida because somebody heard from a crew member that Disney is building a port at a Cozumel.

 

[DisneyPrince22]

You do continue to ignore facts.

Do you think DCL operated with just two ships for over a decade because it was an overwhelming success? Plenty of reports that they looked to offload it during the 2000s (and almost struck a deal, with Norwegian IIRC). I doubt DCL turned a profit for Disney until relatively recently (last 10 years or less), so no CC didn’t work for them with just 2 ships.

LP cost at least $600M to build. I doubt it’s making money for Disney - it’s a long-term investment and Disney intends to increase calls there. They kinda have to per their agreement with the Bahamas.

We already have a good idea of where the new ships are headed two. Itineraries have been released for two of them. We know two more are headed to Galveston and Tokyo. That leaves three ships. We know that DCL has said they want to be at LA/SD year-round, return to NYC, increase San Juan and add a second seasonal ship in Europe (with a longer season). And that’s assuming they don’t retire the Magic/ Wonder, which I will bet will happen.

We know that DCL will be heavy on PC/ PE - Bahamas, based upon their contract. That’s why they sunk so much $$$ into LP. And 3/4/5 day cruises to the Bahamas is much cheaper to operate than Western Caribbean. And fits better into the DCL model.

Again… wishful thinking.

Most of DCL’s itineraries from PC and PE will continue to be 3/4/5 nights, heading to the Bahamas including LP and CC.

We already know the itineraries of the Destiny and Adventure. Of the 5 ships to be delivered, we know that one will be home ported in Japan and another (not necessarily a new build, but an allotted) at Galveston.

Several of Destiny’s itineraries include Cozumel and LP and/ or CC. What’s the point in creating a Disney port at Cozumel? It’s hardly game changing if you’re already stopping at LP and/ or CC. People do go to Cozumel because they want to visit there.

Disney has indicated they plan to serve LA/SD year-round, return to NYC, increase SJU and add more sailings to Europe.

Ultimately, we sorta know what the future holds.

I go based off of what credible, connected people report, not internet message forums. Shame on me if I believe Disney is far more likely to enter NYC then add a 10th ship to Florida because somebody heard from a crew member that Disney is building a port at a Cozumel.

While I agree with you there a private destination at Cozumel won’t be happening, i can’t help but notice your post keep moving the goal post. You state that Disney had said they want to be in LA and NYC, but then it changed to just credible sources.

 

[LAS2AMS]

While I agree with you there a private destination at Cozumel won’t be happening, i can’t help but notice your post keep moving the goal post. You state that Disney had said they want to be in LA and NYC, but then it changed to just credible sources.

Sorry, I didn’t “move the goal post.”

Disney is already in LA/SD and is on the record as saying it’s a market they’ll likely expand service to as the fleet grows. And then there are credible sources who claim Disney has indicated a return to NYC, etc.

My posts are thoughtful and carefully written but I’m not writing APA-style research papers, especially as we drift away from the topic. Ultimately, it doesn’t matter what I write or source, ppeople believe what they want to believe.

If you want to believe that Disney is going to redeploy the Adventure to its late and greatest Disney-created port in Cozumel because somebody heard that from a dishwasher on board their cruise… so be it.

But everyone else can join me in reality where Disney is highly conservative when it comes to capex and has a storied history of cost cutting.

 

[shosh1530]

Are we sure the catamaran crew weren't talking about the Kuza beach club? It isn't exactly the same area on the map, but not far. Disney does not own this resort, but recently (April) started switching many of the tours that include a beach club to go to Kuza (which took over from a former resort, Playa Palancar, I think). Disney markets it as having a private area for their ship, and other cruiselines market their areas too.

We did a three stop tour from the Treasure last month that went to the Mayan ruins, a Mayan chocolate experience, and Kuza. It definitely had the vibe of still be under construction/just coming online.

 

[mmouse37]

We were planning a Disney cruise with my sibling’s family. We choose a cruise from Fort Lauderdale, because it was the same itinerary as Port Canaveral but a couple hundred dollars less and included a bonus sea day… plus it’s a lot easier to get to the port from the airport. No brainer right? Well, my brother protested because it’s just not a Disney cruise unless you’re traveling from MCO and experiencing the Disney terminal at PC.

For people like him that want the full Disney experience, PC exists. But Galveston has been the fastest growing port over the last couple decades and certainly doesn’t need a private Disney port to attract guests.



They have in the past and when they go year round I’m sure we’ll see some.

The port in Ft. Lauderdale is completely Disney themed. It wasn't at first but now they have a dedicated Disney terminal with ears you walk through just like at PC.

MJ

 

[Scalemaster34]

Problem with that huge fanbase in LA/SD... is they haven't supported the cruses there in the past.

AFAIK they haven't signed any long term agreements, and that possible porting one of the ships to say Catalina Island... is going to be another short term test of that market. They are not going all in like they have at Galveston.

NYC or other East Coast ports are very likly... as seasonal stops. But then Disney could likly keep two or three ships rotating around to different seasonal areas/ports. If the market supports them, more than two ships in Asia might work for them.

Thing is WE don't know what Disney's long rang plans are... But other lines have new ships coming in the pipeline, booking port space is getting more expensive and just harder.

 

[jwalk03]

Problem with that huge fanbase in LA/SD... is they haven't supported the cruses there in the past.

AFAIK they haven't signed any long term agreements, and that possible porting one of the ships to say Catalina Island... is going to be another short term test of that market. They are not going all in like they have at Galveston.

NYC or other East Coast ports are very likly... as seasonal stops. But then Disney could likly keep two or three ships rotating around to different seasonal areas/ports. If the market supports them, more than two ships in Asia might work for them.

Thing is WE don't know what Disney's long rang plans are... But other lines have new ships coming in the pipeline, booking port space is getting more expensive and just harder.

The agreement with Catalina Island is for 5 years, and gives Disney preferential rights for port calls every Tuesday and Saturday during peak season (Sept 15- May 15) and every Tuesday during the Summer season (May 16-Sept 14). They also guarantee a minimum of 120,000 passengers per year- which is the equivalent of 44 port calls per year for a Magic Class ship. If they come up short in a given year during the 5 year agreement they would have to pay for the shortfall.

This agreement starts in September 2027. So would run until September 2032. There is also the opportunity to renew the agreement for 2 additional 5 year terms if Disney wishes.

This strongly suggests that one of the Magic class ships will be home ported in Southern California for a majority of the year starting in 2027 and continuing through 2032.