Disney Being Sued by Visually Impaired Guests

[kwitcherkicken99]

These blind people have a tough life and I get that but seriously, they are being entitled selfish jerks for suing Disney for not being accomodating "enough". What is "enough"?? It will never end.

You want to cast stones as selfish jerks? Look at what you just wrote. It is exactly this type of statement that perpetuates the "poor blind person" mentality that has a few affluent VI individuals fighting against that stereotype.

And THAT is what is ridiculous.

this is why I find this whole thing complete bull.

They're not "discriminating" against anyone.

You choose to pay Disney to entertain you at your own risk.

If you think you won't be getting your money's worth, then simply DON'T GO THERE. It's just common freaking sense.

It's not like Disney isn't letting blind people in, they're welcoming them with open arms, but expecting them to bend over backwards to accomodate such a very small percentage of people is ridiculous. They already HAVE braille maps, guide dogs are allowed, and companions should pay full price- I really think that the rest of their claims are just a ploy for money.

If this was something in which they HAD to go to and it wasn't accomodating, then I'd understand. But if they don't feel they can get around and enjoy Disney, then they simply shouldn't go there.

Ridiculous.

The Braille maps are crap. They are not accomodating in any way shape or form.

When lawsuits such as this come forward it is because something needs to be done to change how current things are being done. It's not about compensation.

Try this before you continue to make such inflammatory statements that further make VI individuals feel and be treated as second class citizens. Blindfold yourself for 24 hours and see how you get along. Go to the bathroom, take a shower, pick up dinner - but first you'll have to get a ride. Cook dinner for your family. Get the mail. Find your cell phone after you've forgotten where you set it last. Sort your laundry. Carry a laundry basket to your room. Find your cell phone again after it fell off the couch. Go to the grocery store, after you find someone to drive you. See how you can negotiate price checking and finding what you need.

Live it, then judge how the "poor blind people" are trying to buck the system and make a dime.

I will be reporting this thread because it has more than run its course. It has gone from ridiculous to ridicule-filled anger messages aimed at a community that have little control over the hand they have been dealt.

 

[raidermatt]

Until you know what it's like to be VI, you shouldn't ask what the real motivation behind the suit it. VI is completely different than mobility or auditory disabilities. Walk a mile in their shoes first before casting that stone.

Greed is universal, and to suggest that we must be VI in order to determine the merits of a lawsuit is ludicrous.

I do agree that there are some points in the suit that bear further investigation, but as you said, some points are completely frivilous, and that is damning. If they truly have valid points of contention and their motive is purely to effect change, there would be no need to sensationalize the situation with frivilous claims.

For what it's worth, I do concede it is possible that SOME behind the suit at least started with honest and pure intentions. If that's the case however, somebody has convinced them it's necessary to go beyond that noble effort. As in most situations, if you want to find the culprits, just follow the money trail. Ask yourself who stands to make big bucks off this case.

 

[danny1649]

Is a better fit here

 

[jsilvers]

In other words, I choose not to disclose certain personal information. You seem to enjoy putting words in my mouth.

You're the one holding himself out as being smarter than a federal judge, and yet have offered nothing to back up your position, either in terms of legal credentials or specific information related the case.

You're under no obligation to explain why anyone should believe you instead of the judge. But if you won't, no one will.

 

[iheartdisney]

Another item to consider is, if a VI FAMILY (where more than 1 person in the unit) want to travel and they don't have a companion to go with them? Is it reasonable to expect them to pay for a VIP tour guide to get around?

The answer is no.

Ummm, the answer is yes. If someone wants a VIP tour guide then yes, they have to pay for one. That is how capitalism works.
If you want something above and beyond, where should personal responsibility come into play?

 

[Andtototoo]

Another item to consider is, if a VI FAMILY (where more than 1 person in the unit) want to travel and they don't have a companion to go with them? Is it reasonable to expect them to pay for a VIP tour guide to get around?

The answer is no.

An elderly relative of mine went to Disney a few years ago. Although she can walk around her home fine, there was no way she could walk MK. Should Disney have provided her with a scooter free of charge?

I was seated for the MSEP next to a family with a son who had auditory processing problems. He had to leave once the music started. Should Disney have provided him with ear plugs or a sound-proof booth to see the parade?

 

[kwitcherkicken99]

You guys are all crazy. There's nothing in the suit that infers the plaintiffs wanting Disney to vacation for them.

This suit has been in the works for well over a year.

I've followed it from the start.

And yet again, having a MOBILITY disability is completely different from a VI disability. No one should be made to feel they can't enjoy something. The lack of proper, basic accomodations (such as interactive menus and maps) makes that the case.

I give up on you people. I've strayed from the DIS for months because of this petty crap. Good to know it's still alive and well.

Respond if you want, but I won't be reading it.

 

[kwitcherkicken99]

Oops... double post.

 

[amsafko]

As the parent of a child who recently lost a significant amount of vision, I thought I would chime in. Some of what I read was from those questioning what a VI or blind person would go to Disney for but understand that every situation is unique...my daughter has been to Disney 3 times and loves it so much. Her vision loss occurred just this past December. While she still has some vision, she can't read without magnification devices and has lost most of her peripheral vision. She also is at high risk for even greater loss the rest of her life. She is being trained on a cane and learning to read Braille. She would also go back to Disney in a heartbeat with or without vision. To her it is "the happiest place on earth"...it is about more than just the rides, it is about being AT Disney. Will we expect it to be the same experience as for those who are sighted? No. But how great would it be if when we do go back, she would be able to read her own menu or use the map on her own? I have no comment on the lawsuit as I haven't had a chance to read it through but please don't assume that just because a person can't see, they can't enjoy Disney.

 

[mattsdragon]

My two former students (who check in with me regularly) have taught me about the type of "go-getting" VI personalities that are behind this suit. They believe that the world should be as accessible to them as it is to a sighted person. While most of the is true, it should be, there are parts of the lawsuit that stretch FAR beyond reasonable expectations for WDW or any other place in the world.

But the sad fact of the matter is that it can never be. Not today, probably not until medical science has created a way for them to be able to see again.

People have to be more pragmatic about these things. I know it seems cold, but the truth is often cold, and the world can't be perfect. Survival of the fittest sucks. We've come along way from the days when children born differently were left out to die, but we aren't yet to a place where their differences can always be eliminated.

Look, I wish that Disney and every company could do all they can to enhance the experiences of life to everyone, but there comes a point where you have to remember that at the end of the day, corperations are out to make money, that is why they exist, and you can't always do everything for every group out there.

 

[Talking Hands]

My friend, who is deaf/blind, has been to WDW several times, and has been accommodated with no problems.
Large print menus - yes
Accommodated her guide/hearing dog - yes
Provided her access to shows with an interpreter familiar with 1:1 interpreting for the deaf blind - did not request but her husband copy interpreted the sign language interpreters which is common in the deaf community. Could have requested the interpreter had she wished prior to her trip. (2 weeks notice required)
Access to website - no, but she had a family member access and get the info for her.
Maps braille available - yes
Also available for those who are blind only is a device that describes the show orally as well as providing captioning for the deaf guest.

Not every accommodation can be accommodated on the spot. There are some things in place but other things need to be requested in advance. A person with a disability has to research and plan prior to their trip. Just a fact of life. i think Disney does a great job accommodating guests with disabilities.

 

[usnuzuloose]

It seems that there are people who want to be sue happy for the disability issue. I can understand if there is a ligitimate complaint. But before resorting to suing, they need to find out if any company will accomodate what they are asking for. Or if it is required by law.

I started taking sign language and then went on a cruise, my mind wandered how the ships accomodated there need. Even reading the daily papers for activities I never read anything about programs for the deaf.

But I wish they would back off and just talk to someone before making that kind of move on a company.

 

[NotUrsula]

I'm hard-of-hearing, and I guess because of that I'm in a position to have a somewhat informed opinion on what it means to be disabled-but-not-in-a- way-that-people-really-think-about.

I haven't read the entire thread, please forgive me (I couldn't deal with wading through the contributory negligence digression.) Being HOH, I am accomodated by companies like Disney by means of enhanced visual experiences -- subtitles, closed captioning, interpreters for those who need them. The thing is, seeing still works at a distance in a theme park, but if you think about it, hearing does not, and touch certainly does not, and those are the two senses which the visually impaired must use to compensate for their disability. The ADA was initially passed back in 1990, and at that time, technology to aid the blind wasn't nearly as advanced as it now is; designing accomodations for the blind used to be so much harder than almost any other challenge for someone trying to come up with them.

I suspect that like many posters here, those who were charged wth initially setting up the parks' standard ADA accomodations assumed that those who were completely blind probably would not enjoy visiting the parks, and thus would not be there to need accomodation, or that there was no way that an accomodation would make up for the visual aspect and make the show or ride accessible. The thing is, as those who grew up with the ADA in place have aged, they have come to expect that their world no longer has to be limited by what others are willing to do for them, if technology makes it possible to do for themselves. So, what can Disney do in addition to what they are already doing? Here are a couple of things I can think of ...

Number one: eliminate reliance on any public-service technology that is operated ONLY by means of a touchscreen. Everyone else just loves their touch screens, but to a visually-impaired person a touch screen is like a lock with no key. Witness the issue with newer e-readers -- ooh, they can read the book aloud to you, it's great for the blind, but how on earth is a blind person supposed to turn on the voice synthesizer if the control is only accesible via a touch screen?

Second: get rid of reliance on dedicated devices for narration. Set up button and braille kiosks at the parks and resorts where the visually-impaired can download audio files and free voice-activated apps that can guide them through the parks, and make those files available online as well (on a friendlier website), so that they can determine in advance if the experience is likely to be enjoyable for them. Obviously, these should be available in formats for the most common personal translation devices used by the blind both here and abroad.

The companion issue is a no-go; if the parks don't provide discounts for companion/helpers for any other disability, then it is fair that this one doesn't get that, either.

I don't get the business of the restrictions on the character interaction, unless it is an issue of touch, and Disney is arguing that letting people touch the characters and their costumes will make it obvious that they ARE costumes and thus destroy the illusion (sort of the way that they don't allow kids on backstage tours.) Or take too much time, I guess. It would be kind of neat if they could set up a costume gallery for the blind, where they could touch a set of character mannequins so that they could get a real feel for what those characters "look" like.

PS: I would prefer keeping the thread open if possible, because perhaps someone will learn something from it. Visual impairment, like auditory impairment, is something that happens to most people as they age. Eventually, most of us will experience some degree of one of the other firsthand.

 

[heyitsmejosh]

I give up on you people. I've strayed from the DIS for months because of this petty crap. Good to know it's still alive and well.

Respond if you want, but I won't be reading it.

what do you mean YOU PEOPLE?

 

[denisenh]

What I guess I don't understand about ADA and Disney is this - if you don't feel that disney is going to provide you with an adequate vacation experience - DONT GO! No one NEEDS to go to Disney. Granted, I do not have a disability, so maybe I am not the right person to make a call on this....but really, I see the need for ADA compliant PUBLIC use. Disney is not public, it's private property. And there is nothing there that you absolutely NEED to do, it's a technically a luxury.

 

[mattsdragon]

what do you mean YOU PEOPLE?

What do YOU mean you people?

 

[Friend of a Mouse]

I'll admit I haven't looked through all 14 pages, but this interested me.

I used to be a CM. I know that we allow service dogs and have systems set up to accommodate them. There are many rides they can go on, more than any park I know. They could go on every ride in Fantasyland except Peter pan and Dumbo, and that was just one area of the park. The park I work at now, dogs can only go on two rides in the whole park. No, we don't watch them for the guests, they have to do a rider swap, but that is just good policy.

I don't know why Disney should offer a free sighted guide service or give discounts to sighted guides who are more often than not friends and family members who are with the blind person anyway. One thing we work hard to teach our students is independence. A lot of blind adults pride themselves on their independence.

As far as the maps and menus go, if this is true, I think absolutely it needs to be addressed. However, I have never encountered this one way or the other in the parks, so I'm not sure.

Parades and shows are inaccessible? There is a GAC that says front row seating specifically for VI. I don't know about parades. I was wondering about that myself. Maybe they can let them sit in the section that is roped off for people with disabilities? The parades are harder because it is a free for all and even when you sit down early, peoople can still get in front of you. I've had that happen multiple times. One of my students goes to Silver Dollar City fairly regularly and goes to see the shows. They just get to the shows and parades early to get a seat. If a second grader can handle the extra wait time (and does it willingly), other people should be able to.

As for the costumed characters- well, I always loved the service dogs! More often than not it is a way to get more attention- not less. And the characters are specifically trained in how to handle guests with visual impairments, including letting them feel the faces and the costumes.

I truly wonder how many "blind" people are involved in this? There are a lot of lawyers who make their living by trying to find any tiny noncompliance with the ADA. Like I said, a lot of people who are blind pride themselves on their independence. This makes it sound like they can't do anything for themselves. It smacks of a lawyer wanting to make money.

The only real issues I see are the lack of accessible maps and menus (if that is the case) and maybe a need for some specific accommodations for parade seating- if that.

 

[SueM in MN]

I'll admit I haven't looked through all 14 pages, but this interested me.

I used to be a CM. I know that we allow service dogs and have systems set up to accommodate them. There are many rides they can go on, more than any park I know. They could go on every ride in Fantasyland except Peter pan and Dumbo, and that was just one area of the park. The park I work at now, dogs can only go on two rides in the whole park. No, we don't watch them for the guests, they have to do a rider swap, but that is just good policy.

I don't know why Disney should offer a free sighted guide service or give discounts to sighted guides who are more often than not friends and family members who are with the blind person anyway. One thing we work hard to teach our students is independence. A lot of blind adults pride themselves on their independence.

As far as the maps and menus go, if this is true, I think absolutely it needs to be addressed. However, I have never encountered this one way or the other in the parks, so I'm not sure.

Parades and shows are inaccessible? There is a GAC that says front row seating specifically for VI. I don't know about parades. I was wondering about that myself. Maybe they can let them sit in the section that is roped off for people with disabilities? The parades are harder because it is a free for all and even when you sit down early, peoople can still get in front of you. I've had that happen multiple times. One of my students goes to Silver Dollar City fairly regularly and goes to see the shows. They just get to the shows and parades early to get a seat. If a second grader can handle the extra wait time (and does it willingly), other people should be able to.

As for the costumed characters- well, I always loved the service dogs! More often than not it is a way to get more attention- not less. And the characters are specifically trained in how to handle guests with visual impairments, including letting them feel the faces and the costumes.

I truly wonder how many "blind" people are involved in this? There are a lot of lawyers who make their living by trying to find any tiny noncompliance with the ADA. Like I said, a lot of people who are blind pride themselves on their independence. This makes it sound like they can't do anything for themselves. It smacks of a lawyer wanting to make money.

The only real issues I see are the lack of accessible maps and menus (if that is the case) and maybe a need for some specific accommodations for parade seating- if that.

I explained the way the handicapped parade viewing works a few pages back, but repeating it again:

The handicapped viewing areas for parades and Illuminations are set up so lines of guests using wheelchairs or ECVs are closely parked next to each other across the front of the viewing area. The rest of their party stands behind them and there are sometimes a row of benches along the back of the viewing area.
The reason that the rest of the party has to be behind the guests in wheelchairs is so the guests who are seated in wheelchairs or ECVs can see. Since they are seated, a standing guest next to them restricts their ability to see the parade.
Having a standing group of people with visual disabilities would prevent those who can't stand from seeing.

Those handicapped viewing areas often fill up very quickly, so we often need to be there way before we would need to be staking out a spot along the curb. Now, if the parks wanted to make a separate handicapped viewing area for guests with other disabilities who will be standing at the curb, that would work, but mixing standing and seated people does not.

Parking along the curb outside of the handicapped areas with a wheelchair can also be a hazard -people don't see guests in wheelchairs because they are sitting lower. If the front wheels of the wheelchair or ECV go over the curb the wheelchair/ECV will topple forward, so we need to leave enough space between DD's wheels and the edge of the curb to prevent that. People seeing that 'space' do try to stand there, even though they are completely blocking her view. Even if no one stands in front of her, her view is pretty much just whatever is in front of her because she is sitting with her head at child head height a good 20-24 inches from the edge of the curb while those on either side of her are right up to the curb. Kind of like viewing the parade as it passes by a doorway.

 

[Bangerang]

Oddly enough, I think accommodating for the parades would be one of the easier ones to implement since most of the systems are already in place. Disney could set up a separate viewing area away from Main Street and the hub (far too noisy) where an audio description could be piped to the handheld units already in place. Descriptions of the floats could be synchronized with the music and controlled from the parade control room. I'm not even sure the area would need to be roped off as long as the signal is strong enough.

 

[kaytieeldr]

I've also seen visually impaired guests greeted by characters. But that doesn't mean it happens in all cases where it's supposed to happen.

I'm not saying Disney is wrong. In general, they do quite a bit for disabled guests. But I'm not going to rush to defend the company based on a photo of Pluto interacting with a service dog or someone who says they saw a braille menu -- these are anecdotal incidents that don't necessarily indicate the typical experience a visually impaired guest receives.

And so far, I don't think anyone on this thread has been able to give us that perspective (and even then, it would be still be an anecdotal account and may or may not reflect the typical experience).

Just as the occasional (in this case) blind person's anecdotal experience doesn't make something fact or prove it's the policy.