Disney After Hours

[MickeyMinnieMom]

The reason that they can charge those prices for the AK events is because they are extremely limited, (we are talking an out numbers in the dozens, not thousands), and because you are buying an experience that cannot otherwise be replicated. DAH was nothing more than EMH which people already pay for.

And why do you call DAH an "Experiment", but the villain party is not? And MNSSHP is not? They are all limited time engagements that have a natural season. This simply ended because peak season is upon us and Disney cannot close the MK early and sell back hours when people are already paying maximum dynamic pricing for their vacation. I am not convinced that this is never coming back. But if it does, it will come back in the form of what HopperFan experienced. The $149 price wasn't an experiment. And neither was New Coke. And neither was the Edsel. They were simply bad corporation decisions. At least this one can be rectified and perhaps it already had. But calling an error in judgment that has been modified an "experiment" is spin of a galactic nature.

You seem to want to argue across threads. You put words in my mouth above -- many of these things I simply never said. Maybe you're confusing me with someone else??

• Never said Club Villain wasn't an experiment. I'd say it probably started that way -- seems like a successful one. DAH does not seem successful in the initial incarnation. But limited engagement things like this strike me as experiments. Wishes Dessert party seemed like one at first... just a couple of months at a time at first. Then it took off and became permanent. These aren't big bad strategic corporate errors that indicate a larger problem with the company and management -- at least not in my estimation. They're playing around with their products. Some will pay off, some won't. What is the big deal??

• I also already said in several threads the same thing hopper fan did and that you repeated -- that I could see it coming back at a lower price point with more tix sold -- i.e. a modification to the offering they tried. Said that many times.

And your comparisons don't seem on point. New Coke was to replace the original. It wasn't put out there deliberately FOR A LIMITED TIME. DAH was. The latter LOOKS LIKE a test. The former does not. Same with the Edsel.

And who cares?? Let's call this not an "experiment" if that term irks you -- let's call it BAD BUSINESS JUDGMENT -- a BAD OFFERING. Shocking. Even Fortune 50 companies make mistakes!! Which one DOESN'T? I still don't get what the huge deal would be if you view it this way.

I think your logic around why they can charge $249pp for the same amount of time for those AK experiences is little flawed from a business standpoint. The group size being limited is but one factor that feeds into a consumer's subjective estimation of VALUE. That's all pricing like this is about. Enough people perceive the value at $249pp for WAT to fill those few spots, cover their costs, and show a profit. What they need for DAH to be successful is to hit a price point that attracts enough customers such that their revenue exceeds their costs. They have to get the number of tix vs price right. What is the correct number of tix for consumers to feel that the event is worth paying for, and what price point can that support? Does that then result in profit or not given costs? It may be that they cannot do that with this offering. They tested two price points. They may test more, or change up the offering. Or they may trash the whole idea. Remains to be seen. It's all about perceived value.

You are also incorrect that DAH = EMH. Having done both (EMH all the time for the past 12-ish years), that is not accurate. As compared to EMH, I'd pay for DAH during busier times or a very short trip. The question is whether enough other people ultimately would, and precisely what price hits the right sweet spot.

It strikes me as quite something how much you think you KNOW: "The $149 price wasn't an experiment." You absolutely do not know this. You're GUESSING this. I am GUESSING the opposite. That's all.


ETA: I see you modified your original post. I responded to the original and will probably leave it at that.

 

[whiporee]

I don't think anyone could deny this particular event had a lot of negative feedback on these forums. it does seems that the morning program is more successful perhaps.

But the morning event is no longer listed, while the late-night event is.

 

[sgtdisney]

But the morning event is no longer listed, while the late-night event is.

I couldn't find either when I looked online. However when I look into MDX on the app (not online), it shows early morning "ticket events" into June..

 

[JimmyV]

Never said Club Villain wasn't an experiment. I'd say it probably started that way -- seems like a successful one.

But this denudes the concept of a true experiment. If everything that a company introduces is an experiment, then your definition always wins, but the concept of true experimentation evaporates.

I think your logic around why they can charge $249pp for the same amount of time for those AK experiences is little flawed from a business standpoint. The group size being limited is but one factor that feeds into a consumer's subjective estimation of VALUE

Which is why I added that people are paying for an experience that is not otherwise available. That is the most critical feature that drives price--uniqueness.

You are also incorrect that DAH = EMH. Having done both (EMH all the time for the past 12-ish years), that is not accurate.

Except much of the difference between DAH and EMH derives from the fact that so few people went to DAH. Not because of design but because of result. And yes, it is indisputable that there would always be differences between DAH and EMH. The question is, is a zero minute wait for Space Mountain worth $149 more than a 5-7 minute wait. Because between midnight and 2:00 in late April and early May, that's what the wait used to be...before Disney decided that EMHs should be cut back from 3 hours to 2, and before it decided that EMHs should be from 10:00- midnight during that time of year. No doubt that DAH is very different from the early application of EMH.

In the end, it seems that we agree that bad business judgment is not the same thing as an experiment. I apologize if it has been tiresome for me to get to that point, and for you to do the same. But here we are.

 

[WillAustin]

DAH was nothing more than EMH which people already pay for.

This is the problem for me. And it's just another example of cutting back, then charging for things that weren't add-ons before.

 

[WillAustin]

But the morning event is no longer listed, while the late-night event is.

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/dining/early-morning-magic/

 

[whiporee]

Ah -- under dining. My bad.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

But this denudes the concept of a true experiment. If everything that a company introduces is an experiment, then your definition always wins, but the concept of true experimentation evaporates.


Which is why I added that people are paying for an experience that is not otherwise available. That is the most critical feature that drives price--uniqueness.


Except much of the difference between DAH and EMH derives from the fact that so few people went to DAH. Not because of design but because of result. And yes, it is indisputable that there would always be differences between DAH and EMH. The question is, is a zero minute wait for Space Mountain worth $149 more than a 5-7 minute wait. Because between midnight and 2:00 in late April and early May, that's what the wait used to be...before Disney decided that EMHs should be cut back from 3 hours to 2, and before it decided that EMHs should be from 10:00- midnight.

In the end, it seems that we agree that bad business judgment is not the same thing as an experiment. I apologize if it has been tiresome for me to get to that point, and for you to do the same. But here we are.

In the end, whether it's viewed as an experiment with a bad result, or bad business judgment to introduce that offering at that price point, the result is the same: this one appears not to have worked out so well so far!! I think we agree there!

The big thing I tag a company's top management with is strategic direction and larger strategic decision-making. The rest that they do within that is really playing around with offerings and seeing what works within that strategy. The whole STRATEGY could prove a success/failure, or an individual OFFERING could prove a success/failure. Not the same thing, and NOT EQUALLY IMPORTANT TO ME.

I think that the overall strategy at play here to REALLY LEAN INTO MARKET SEGMENTATION is a solid business decision. That's all this is. They've done it for years in other SBUs (lines at Nordstrom and Target), and to some extent in Parks. They clearly decided to have this EXPLODE... beyond VIP tours and MNSSHP, and into a MYRIAD different upcharge events.

I think this is SMART. Not everyone will like it. And the trick is to hit the right balance... every segment needs to feel satisfied in proportions such that profit is there. If they lean in TOO FAR they risk a greed label sticking that hurts the brand.

I think they opened themselves up to the greed argument some on this one in part because of poor advertising/marketing. Not enough people perceived a VALUE difference between DAH and EMH. Who knows what the ACTUAL value difference would have been if they sold all tix...

Again -- I did it for FREE as a DVC member in the day-before free ticket offering. I was NOT sold on the value beforehand. My sense after attending was that they could easily double the number of people there and still make it worth paying for. But again, I'll never be able to get my hands on the DATA that will tell me what I want to know!! I hate that.

 

[Mom2darlingboys]

I completely agree with this. No one seems to be crying foul over the VIP tours either. I'm just not getting the anger toward this event and the glee over its possible failure.

The tours are truly exclusive events (which I still think are too expensive), and they are a value-add for those that are interested. DAH is charging for something that was available for free... sure, some people saw value in that, but bottom line was it WAS previously free.

The anger toward this event is simple - people are concerned that they are getting less value for their existing park ticket and that this is a sign of more to come down the road. The glee over its failure? Disney has been increasing prices across the board, charging extra for things that used to be free and otherwise fleecing customers to line their pockets.

Those who see it that way, are surely pleased to see it fail, in the hopes that might make Disney re-think this latest approach to money-making. We love the parks and want to keep going, but with every decision to this effect, they lose more and more of our loyalty. People don't like being taken advantage of, nor being unappreciated as return customers.

Those who see these as smart decision-making, business building, and a boon for stakeholder returns need to truly see it for what it ended up being. A bust. A failed test. And hopefully a lesson in greed for a company that used to pride itself on magic and exceptional service.

That said, I have little faith that they have learned from the experience. As I saw mentioned in another post, Iger has deep pockets and they are clearly empty. There is no end to what he will do in the short-term to ensure this year's bonus.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Those who see these as smart decision-making, business building, and a boon for stakeholder returns need to truly see it for what it ended up being. A bust. A failed test. And hopefully a lesson in greed for a company that used to pride itself on magic and exceptional service.

That said, I have little faith that they have learned from the experience. As I saw mentioned in another post, Eisner has deep pockets and they are clearly empty. There is no end to what he will do in the short-term to ensure this year's bonus.

The only lesson here is that this event at that price point is a failure (presumably, though we and Motley Fool cannot confirm that). The OFFERING didn't work. That doesn't doom the STRATEGY that appears to be doing well for them...

The larger strategy of leaning into more market segmentation appears successful: just look at the massive proliferation of upcharge events that they've tried and the high proportion that have stuck around. That and their increased profits are as close to proof of STRATEGY success as we can get.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

That said, I have little faith that they have learned from the experience. As I saw mentioned in another post, Eisner has deep pockets and they are clearly empty. There is no end to what he will do in the short-term to ensure this year's bonus.

I think you've cast the wrong villain... Isn't the current one Iger, or did I misunderstand your post?

 

[Golfjbc89]

I think based on the timing of the event they excluded many of the people who visit (children), which was the doom of this event. As a couple or a friends trip i would have most likely done this.

 

[Mom2darlingboys]

I think you've cast the wrong villain... Isn't the current one Iger, or did I misunderstand your post?

Whoa, epic FAIL! Yes, I meant Iger. Thanks for the catch. Clearly Disney is not the only one who can make mistakes. Luckily, mine are a lot smaller than Iger's, easier to remedy and cost nothing!

 

[Hikergirl]

I know its hard to imagine LOL but there are people who actually do not stay onsite that visit WDW and didn't have access to free EMH. I keep seeing people stating that this was once free, and that is true, but not for everyone.
This event may have been a "test" for everyone, even those who dont stay on site.

 

[Mom2darlingboys]

I know its hard to imagine LOL but there are people who actually do not stay onsite that visit WDW and didn't have access to free EMH.

Then I'm pretty sure they are not the ones complaining about their loss of value. That would make sense. Unless they are planning to for an upcoming visit and are concerned EMH won't be there as a potential perk.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Whoa, epic FAIL! Yes, I meant Iger. Thanks for the catch. Clearly Disney is not the only one who can make mistakes. Luckily, mine are a lot smaller than Iger's, easier to remedy and cost nothing!

 

[DVCcurious]

Here's what we know:

1) These After Hours events did not sell well.
2) These events gave you 3 hours of rides + free ice cream and soda
3) There are no "event only" special additions (parades, fireworks, characters)
4) These events cost $150 per person

vs

1) MNSSHP and MVMCP sell extremely well.
2) These events get you in the park at 4PM and run until 11 or 12, so you get 7 or 8 hours
3) There are special fireworks/parades/characters offered that you can only see at these events
4) Ticket prices are $75 (I know they're not, but it's close enough for my point).

So what we've learned is they took the successful MNSSHP and MVMCP idea, cut the park-time in half, cut out any "unique experiences", and doubled the cost. And everybody's OK with this? Did I miss something!!!

Well, apparently everybody wasn't OK with it. The People have spoken: $75 for 7 hours + special characters/parades is a good value. $150 for 3 hours with no special characters/parades is a rip off.

The break point is clearly somewhere in between. What will Disney do next? Maybe come back with a 3 hour Disney After Hours event that allows entry to the parks at 8PM plus has a special parade during the 3 hour event and charge $100 and see what kind of reception they get.

 

[AngiTN]

I actually found motley fool's point about greed interesting:

"The notion of a $149 pass for three hours of near-exclusive access painted Disney as greedy, and the irony there is that there's a good chance that Disney After Hours wasn't profitable.

Having a couple thousand people paying $50 an hour may seem like a slam dunk, but keep in mind that there are a lot of staffing, utility, and maintenance costs associated with keeping a park open with more than two dozen attractions in operation. Disney may have calculated a modest profit with 5,000 people paying $149, but it's a far different model when you only attract roughly half as many people with many of those paying half as much. "

I think they're probably right that it didn't make a huge profit. And since disney is a business and they seek to make profits, I can see them labeling this current iteration of dah as disappointing. Maybe, like other posters have said, theyll make tweaks and try to make a profitable price more appealing to guests. Or maybe they'll drop the idea. Guess we'll see.

This is the exact reasoning I speculated as to why it wouldn't return. It simply can not have made them any money. I'd also agree that even wth 5000 tickets sold, which is more than GS told me (yeah, I know) were being sold for each night, it would be hard to make any significant money from it.

I'm not sure what exactly was their plan with this. Huge profit couldn't have been it

 

[Accident]

If this was a mistake, than thank you disney because i've wanted an event like this for 11 years since my katrina week vacation where the whole world was this empty.. It was amazing, it made sense to me, I loved it and can't wait for the next version of this event to enjoy in the future! We all have that picture we've seen of someone in an empty park and wished it was us. I'm not sorry I can afford disney and some can't.. I want more exclusive open your pockets to get in events.. I want ceratin dates fall parties cost much more but guarantee almost no crowd...

People are on the edge or have recently jumped off the edge for prices and crowds already.. When an event doesn't list something different like a party does and people want that time for their normal ticket, don't understand why people would want to pay for this and don't understand the price then they feel left out or like something that everyone should get is being taken from them... Disney is crowded and expensive, we all hate that but when disney found a way to offer no crowds without going broke, everyone is upset again.. you cna't have it both ways, what we love about disney is expensive and someone has to pay for it..

Give away tickets? disney gives away tickets for everything and always has. it's one way they sprinkle some pixie dust on random guests and get podcasts talking about what the event was like. It hasn't been as common the last few years but there was always some random giveaway like the golden fastpass or similar over the years. i'm happy this is back and hope it continues. I can afford disney, but someone who can't I like they are getting a chance to do things they thought weren't possible.. I'll be more than happy to stand in line for a ride next to them and have the same amount of fun.. I consider this very disney and inclusive. They can't give it to everyone but they try to not exclude anyone.. Again, thank you disney for this..

Here's what we know:
2) These events get you in the park at 4PM and run until 11 or 12, so you get 7 or 8 hours

I'm sorry but after hours you could get in at 4pm and went until 2am. it was not 3 hours in the park, it was 10 hours in the park, longer than a party and also nobody on a day ticket was asked to leave but rides shutdown to them at 11pm, meaning more time for a day ticket.

Your points are kind of invalid if you don't even know what hours it ran and we won't get into your party price which is only good for a couple weeks and the parties are $105 this year, not $75 for more guests than not.

 

[AngiTN]

Here's what we know:

1) These After Hours events did not sell well.
2) These events gave you 3 hours of rides + free ice cream and soda
3) There are no "event only" special additions (parades, fireworks, characters)
4) These events cost $150 per person

vs

1) MNSSHP and MVMCP sell extremely well.
2) These events get you in the park at 4PM and run until 11 or 12, so you get 7 or 8 hours
3) There are special fireworks/parades/characters offered that you can only see at these events
4) Ticket prices are $75 (I know they're not, but it's close enough for my point).

So what we've learned is they took the successful MNSSHP and MVMCP idea, cut the park-time in half, cut out any "unique experiences", and doubled the cost. And everybody's OK with this? Did I miss something!!!

Well, apparently everybody wasn't OK with it. The People have spoken: $75 for 7 hours + special characters/parades is a good value. $150 for 3 hours with no special characters/parades is a rip off.

The break point is clearly somewhere in between. What will Disney do next? Maybe come back with a 3 hour Disney After Hours event that allows entry to the parks at 8PM plus has a special parade during the 3 hour event and charge $100 and see what kind of reception they get.

Except that's wrong. You also got in at 4:00 with DAH passes. Not even 8:00, like you suggest. But 4:00. Where the 3 hours come to play is that is the time it was DAH only.