Disney, Adoption and The Avengers...

snarlingcoyote

<font color=blue>I know people who live in really
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
And that's exactly what Odin tells Loki in Thor when he finds out he's adopted. Twice.

This is the actual dialogue from Thor (from IMDB):



Then, despite repeated assurances throughout the movie that he had always been loved as a son and a brother, Loki threw away because that his jealousy consumed him.

His adoption wasn't his problem. His jealousy and his extremely bad choices were.

At the end of that movie, Thor was devastated to have lost Loki, and it was still clear mourning the loss of a brother.

And I thought the line was funny. It clearly was not intended as a slam against adoption in general (that wouldn't have been funny), but it was just in reference to one particular problem child in an awkward moment.

Even throughout this movie, it was obvious that Thor still considered Loki a brother.
In other words

Cliche #1 Parents didn't tell child he was adopted.
Cliche #2 Adoptee has all kinds of problems dealing with the fact that he was adopted.
Cliche #3 Adoptee is just a Bad Seed to begin with and you can't change Fate.

And now that I've read this, let's add Cliche #4 Adoptive Parents are wonderful, it's just that Cliche #3 has come into play.

:rolleyes:

After all these years, you'd think maybe, just maybe, someone could come up with an original plot line about adoption in a movie, but no, they just keep on plugging the same old adoptee storyline, over and over again.
 

snarlingcoyote

<font color=blue>I know people who live in really
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Have you ever watched the Disney Channel? Cheerleaders are always ditzy. Kids with inhalers are always uncool nerds. Smart kids are uncool nerds. Etc.

As the mom with an asthmatic son, the inhaler one really bothers me. If you make it uncool to use life-saving meds, kids die. Would they do the same with insulin shots?

I'm sure I'm being too sensitive, too. It's probably really funny to some people:rolleyes:
Okay, off topic, but ever seen The Wizards of Waverly Place? Harper was a cheerleader who got Alex into being a cheerleader. (Okay, Harper was a ditz, but she was also was bigger than a size 00 and was a great, sympathetic character.) Justin and eventually Zeke were nerds and geeks, but were cool.

I also give you Phineas and Ferb, which loves to riff off the nerd/bully/fanboy stereotypes and give you characters in those categories that are easy to care about and to root for.

Now I'm wondering if you could possibly bring it up in some way and raise some consciousness. . .why not have a character on P&F who needs an inhaler? (Like one of the Fireside girls. Just as long as it's not Addison!) It's just not that uncommon for one kid in a pack of kids to need an inhaler occasionally.
 

kamik86

DIS Veteran
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
In other words

Cliche #1 Parents didn't tell child he was adopted.
Cliche #2 Adoptee has all kinds of problems dealing with the fact that he was adopted.
Cliche #3 Adoptee is just a Bad Seed to begin with and you can't change Fate.

And now that I've read this, let's add Cliche #4 Adoptive Parents are wonderful, it's just that Cliche #3 has come into play.

:rolleyes:

After all these years, you'd think maybe, just maybe, someone could come up with an original plot line about adoption in a movie, but no, they just keep on plugging the same old adoptee storyline, over and over again.
Maybe because this isn't an original story line. Thor would suck if they changed the plot. The kiss of death for a comic book movie is to go to far from the accepted cannon of the character because then all the comic fans will hate the movie. You may do ok with enough action to keep some others entertained but its the comic fans that really make or break the movie.

The main story of Thor was written along time ago and some very basics of the plot can't be changed. Including that he is adopted, that he didn't know, and that Odin always loves him anyway. They could have left the joke out yes but the cliches you have above were needed.

It would take a new movie with a new plot to do something different. Not a retelling of the same story.

To give you an idea of how much the comic fans check everything... some are upset that they threw in a new random alien race. They don't think that was enough to make the movie not awesome but still didn't like it. There is no way they could have changed the main plot of Thor.
 

snarlingcoyote

<font color=blue>I know people who live in really
Joined
Dec 27, 2008
Maybe because this isn't an original story line. Thor would suck if they changed the plot. The kiss of death for a comic book movie is to go to far from the accepted cannon of the character because then all the comic fans will hate the movie. You may do ok with enough action to keep some others entertained but its the comic fans that really make or break the movie.

The main story of Thor was written along time ago and some very basics of the plot can't be changed. Including that he is adopted, that he didn't know, and that Odin always loves him anyway. They could have left the joke out yes but the cliches you have above were needed.

It would take a new movie with a new plot to do something different. Not a retelling of the same story.
To give you an idea of how much the comic fans check everything... some are upset that they threw in a new random alien race. They don't think that was enough to make the movie not awesome but still didn't like it. There is no way they could have changed the main plot of Thor.
Oh yeah. Because every Batman is the same movie.
 

sparklynails23

DIS Veteran
Joined
Oct 15, 2009
Okay, off topic, but ever seen The Wizards of Waverly Place? Harper was a cheerleader who got Alex into being a cheerleader. (Okay, Harper was a ditz, but she was also was bigger than a size 00 and was a great, sympathetic character.) Justin and eventually Zeke were nerds and geeks, but were cool.

I also give you Phineas and Ferb, which loves to riff off the nerd/bully/fanboy stereotypes and give you characters in those categories that are easy to care about and to root for.

Now I'm wondering if you could possibly bring it up in some way and raise some consciousness. . .why not have a character on P&F who needs an inhaler? (Like one of the Fireside girls. Just as long as it's not Addison!) It's just not that uncommon for one kid in a pack of kids to need an inhaler occasionally.
Thank god my kids have grown out of that stage, so I don't have to watch any Disney Channel:dance3: But didn't the little magical girl constantly rip on the "nerdy" dude?

As for the inhaler issue. Just leave it out. It's never germane to the story, just a stereotype.
 

LuvsDragonflies

DIS Veteran
Joined
Apr 14, 2011
I think you are reading waaaay too much into the statement. His saying Loki was adopted is the characters way of avoiding association with the things Loki is doing.

Adopted children are actually chosen by their parents (in that they choose to adopt a child, not that they may or may not get to specifically pick a certain child) , so should feel special in their own right. Stop giving children a reason to get all EMO over something so ridiculous.

All kids have "growing pains" and being adopted doesn't need to make their lives any more or less than any other child's, unless you go around giving them excuses to feel less than they are.

We don't even wait for kids to figure out what they want to cry about anymore, we have hand it to them on a silver platter? :sad:
 

skater

<font color=blue>Change sometimes stinks.. doesn't
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
So when a movie or Tv show makes a joke about being fat or a dumb blonde are you equaling outraged? As a parent I don't like anyone making fun of my child but if I can't summon outrage for every offensives "joke" than I deal with any fallout with my child on my own. I don't expect others to feel the same injustices I do. I save my public outrage for bigger issues than a slight to my child. How we as a family is what really matters to my child not what some silly cartoon characters think.

I don't think you can compare blonde jokes to being adopted. Try comparing race, sexual orientation - I think the comparison would make more sense.
 
  • skater

    <font color=blue>Change sometimes stinks.. doesn't
    Joined
    Jul 11, 2005
    I have a lot more respect for the dissenting opinions by the adoptees and adopted parents. Those of you not closely involved with the life long process of adoption have no idea. You are entitled to your opinion, but its just not coming from the same place as those who have dealt with the crazy emotions involved in adoption.

    My family will soon go to see Avengers, but I will probably discuss this line with my boys before we go. Its always better for them to address issues like this head on. Ignoring it or insisting that its just one line in a movie - or that being upset is "grasping at straws," won't make any feelings they might have go away.
     

    skater

    <font color=blue>Change sometimes stinks.. doesn't
    Joined
    Jul 11, 2005
    I think you are reading waaaay too much into the statement. His saying Loki was adopted is the characters way of avoiding association with the things Loki is doing.

    Adopted children are actually chosen by their parents (in that they choose to adopt a child, not that they may or may not get to specifically pick a certain child) , so should feel special in their own right. Stop giving children a reason to get all EMO over something so ridiculous.

    All kids have "growing pains" and being adopted doesn't need to make their lives any more or less than any other child's, unless you go around giving them excuses to feel less than they are.

    We don't even wait for kids to figure out what they want to cry about anymore, we have hand it to them on a silver platter? :sad:

    Nobody is giving children a reason to be emotional. And you deciding its ridiculous is your opinion. Your opinion won't change the little stab that my boys may feel about this line.

    Being adopted adds issues to a child's life. Its not about excuses. Its there no matter what you or anyone else decides should happen. Denying that there are issues associated with adoption or that adoptees might feel a tad upset about a line in a movie, doesn't make it go away. Talking about it openly is what will help most kids.
     

    LuvsDragonflies

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 14, 2011
    Little stabs are a part of life, we all get them. Teach them how to deal with it rather than dwell on the unfairness of it all and you'll be doing them a favor.

    As far as your statement that dumb blonde jokes don't compare, or fat jokes, or anything else that people use to make fun of other with, well...how can you possibly create such a stance of the stigma of adoption when you won't even deign that these matter too? Blonde children don't feel pain? Fat children aren't hurt by mean words?

    All or nothing.
     

    skater

    <font color=blue>Change sometimes stinks.. doesn't
    Joined
    Jul 11, 2005
    Little stabs are a part of life, we all get them. Teach them how to deal with it rather than dwell on the unfairness of it all and you'll be doing them a favor.

    Teaching them how to deal with it is exactly what I'm doing. You're assuming that talking about it means dwelling on the unfairness. That's not what I'm doing. On the other hand, ignoring it or pretending that those feeling don't exist is NOT teaching them how to deal with it at all. I've seen what can happen to adopted kids in families where its not discussed.
     
  • penn19

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Aug 24, 2007
    Little stabs are a part of life, we all get them. Teach them how to deal with it rather than dwell on the unfairness of it all and you'll be doing them a favor.

    As far as your statement that dumb blonde jokes don't compare, or fat jokes, or anything else that people use to make fun of other with, well...how can you possibly create such a stance of the stigma of adoption when you won't even deign that these matter too? Blonde children don't feel pain? Fat children aren't hurt by mean words?

    All or nothing.
    :thumbsup2
     

    FlightlessDuck

    Y kant Donald fly?
    Joined
    Jun 20, 2006
    Think of it this way: When everyone is told that Loki killed 80 people in two days, everyone looked at Thor like he was a freak to have a mass murderer as a biological brother.

    The implication of THAT is that bad blood permeates a biological family. :confused3
     

    LuvsDragonflies

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 14, 2011
    Teaching them how to deal with it is exactly what I'm doing. You're assuming that talking about it means dwelling on the unfairness. That's not what I'm doing. On the other hand, ignoring it or pretending that those feeling don't exist is NOT teaching them how to deal with it at all. I've seen what can happen to adopted kids in families where its not discussed.
    That's completely reasonable and a great way to treat it. However OP is just, IMHO, a little over the top lambasting the Walt Disney Company for this. I mean, really? How many Disney animated films have the mom dead or die? The dad? Are there not plenty of children around with one or more parents deceased? This is a pretty heavy subject to throw into a kids G cartoon, isn't it? Yet it happens, often. You learn to deal. You tell your kids, you know, Bambi's mom dies in this movie.

    The movie is rated PG-13, so if you have younger children going, be aware that material may not be suitable for the minds or humor of younger children. You want G material, go to a G movie, kwim?
     

    skater

    <font color=blue>Change sometimes stinks.. doesn't
    Joined
    Jul 11, 2005
    Think of it this way: When everyone is told that Loki killed 80 people in two days, everyone looked at Thor like he was a freak to have a mass murderer as a biological brother.

    The implication of THAT is that bad blood permeates a biological family. :confused3

    Well, he's not really my brother. Well, his skin is a different color than mine. Well, his sexual orientation is different. He's different than me. When is it not okay?
     

    skater

    <font color=blue>Change sometimes stinks.. doesn't
    Joined
    Jul 11, 2005
    That's completely reasonable and a great way to treat it. However OP is just, IMHO, a little over the top lambasting the Walt Disney Company for this. I mean, really? How many Disney animated films have the mom dead or die? The dad? Are there not plenty of children around with one or more parents deceased? This is a pretty heavy subject to throw into a kids G cartoon, isn't it? Yet it happens, often. You learn to deal. You tell your kids, you know, Bambi's mom dies in this movie.

    The movie is rated PG-13, so if you have younger children going, be aware that material may not be suitable for the minds or humor of younger children. You want G material, go to a G movie, kwim?

    While I don't totally agree, I hear what you're saying. I remember being upset with Disney about the parent murders :rotfl:. I used to say that kids love Disney, but Disney hates kids ;). That was when I had one sweet little 5 year old girl, and I thought I would protect her from everything. My perspective's a little different now.

    I see your point about the movie rating. Still, I'm glad I have the warning so I can discuss it with my boys before we see the movie. As a parent of two adopted children, there's nothing like a stupid comment in a movie to hit you in the gut. Sometimes it can almost ruin a movie because I'm sitting there wondering what they're thinking. I imagine that people of minority races have dealt with these feelings in lots of situations.
     

    plutotek

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Jan 10, 2010
    Oh, sweet jaysus!! All the sanctimony and outrage over a single line that most have taken out of context in a comic book movie. If it wasn't so pathetic, it might funny.
     

    LuvsDragonflies

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 14, 2011
    Yeah, but it's kind of everywhere. Blonde, Fat, Tall, Ugly, Adopted, Black, White, Asian...that and more all get stupid jokes. It might help to point that out?

    People make stupid, possibly hurtful, jokes and laugh at just about anything they can find to needle someone about.

    Just as a for instance, Americas Funniest Home Videos, I can't even count the number of times I've seen someone get possibly really hurt and it's played and laughed at like it's just the funniest thing ever. I'm sorry, but no, I do not think watching your two year old almost take his head off by riding his power wheel under the picnic table is a laugh riot.

    Watching your dog try and take your face off? not funny to me.

    Watching drunk granma dance on the table at the reception, have her knickers fall down and take a header off the table...still not funny...maybe a snicker...but holy hell grandma, did you make it out alive???

    The brides head going up in flames from silly string and candles, nope not a single, solitary chuckle.

    Yet people send these in and they go up for cash prizes. :crazy2:

    We're just nuts as a entire species.
     

    CentralFloridian99

    The guy who will ask all the celebrities if they w
    Joined
    Jun 23, 2011
    The movie is rated PG-13, so if you have younger children going, be aware that material may not be suitable for the minds or humor of younger children. You want G material, go to a G movie, kwim?
    This. It's annoying when parents bring young kids into PG-13 movies. It might not be suitable.
     

    SaraJayne

    <font color=red>Stop moving those smilies! <img sr
    Joined
    Mar 6, 2009
    Oh, sweet jaysus!! All the sanctimony and outrage over a single line that most have taken out of context in a comic book movie. If it wasn't so pathetic, it might funny.
    :lmao:Exactly what I was thinking. :thumbsup2
     

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