Disney 2Q Earnings Rise 27 Percent

[Another Voice]

We call this projection!! And to add....I never said i know how to run an entertainment company. That is my whole argument. I nor most posters here know how to run Disney.

So if you don't know anything about running an entertainment company, then how can you judge if my opinions are sound or unsound. You don't have any basis to make a decision, do you.

Like so many "fans", anything "Disney" is beyond comment. You either love them or you're a bad, ignorant person.

If you go back into the archieves here you'll find many, many threads that paint a sad history. People were complaining that the Disney stores were focusing on the wrong products and weren't well maintained. The "better people" here told everyone to shut-up the stores were fine and Disney knew what it was doing.

Disney ended up giving away the entire store business.

There were other threads about how the feature animation films were growing rushed, that Disney seemed more interested in selling Happy Meals than making a good film. We were told we didn't know a thing, that the public LOVED Disney movies and would wait in long lines for Brother Bear and Treasure Planet would be the top grossing movie of the year. It was only our hatred and ignorance that kept us from seeing those "facts".

Yet Disney shut down Feature Animation and spent the value of Walt Disney World to buy another studio.

Some of us said that California Adventure violated every rule that made Disney Parks unqiue. We were screamed at by fans that we were stupid, hateful people that just wanted Disney to fail.

Yet now a ticket to DCA is a giveaway when you buy a ticket to Disneyland.

All in all, it really does seem like a lot of people here know much more about running Disney than its current management does. Perhaps it's because we know about Disney, we know it's history, its past mistakes, the elements "behind the scenes" that makes things work. That's certainly a lot more knowledge than a failed studio suit and a failed network exec brought to the CEO job.

Maybe your Starbucks friend should give it a shot.

 

[shanomi4]

So if you don't know anything about running an entertainment company, then how can you judge if my opinions are sound or unsound. You don't have any basis to make a decision, do you.

Was this a question or a statement? Also, did I ever single you out? Did I as you were unable to do a better job then Disney? Funny, you and I agree more then you know, but yet you are quick to assume that I was talking about you!

Like so many "fans", anything "Disney" is beyond comment. You either love them or you're a bad, ignorant person.

If you go back into the archieves here you'll find many, many threads that paint a sad history.

No doubt!

Maybe your Starbucks friend should give it a shot.

why?

And for the record, I am not a Disney fan. I think Universal is a superior product. At least for my family. I think Disney is falling apart and is not what Walt would want. I think they have expanded to much.

 

[MasterShake]

Like so many "fans", anything "Disney" is beyond comment. You either love them or you're a bad, ignorant person.

I agree, there are a lot of people on this board that are very biased and can only seem to see one side of Disney

 

[EUROPACL]

While I do not like most of the...g to make you want to run out to the theater.

 

[EUROPACL]

double post

 

[MasterShake]

Listen, I get the fact that you are not satisfied with the quality of product Disney has been putting out lately, but the facts do not support your assumption that Disney is a downward spiral. You stated the following:

Yeah I know it must disappoint you...but in a Capitalist society the consumers are the ones who get to make those decisions. I'm sure you think that Eisner had some special talent or insight just because he spent a few years green lighting bad movies. Eveery day in this country regular people run billion, million, and less dollar companies...its a great place to live. Even if you can't wrap your head around bad ideas like half finished parks, bad movies, bad TV shows and the slow downward spiral that is Disney...we can.

You say that consumers are the ones that make the decisions. I assume you are saying that consumers can voice their displeasure with a company by avoiding the product. If the average consumer was dissatisfied with Disney I would think that Disney would be losing viewers and the park attendance would be going down. However that is not what's happening. Nelson ratings are high for ABC and nearly every park is hitting attendance records. I provided several sources and factual information to back up my side of the argument. If you have something other then "that's crap" or "so?" then I will give greater consideration to your argument.

.....for the record I take offense to the idea that I love "Wild Hogs" (but the movie is/was profitable)

 

[MasterShake]

Double post

 

[YoHo]

On the topic of Television. While I appreciate the finer points of death versus rebirth, the questions as it relates to this thread and DIsney in general are:

Q: Was the purchase of ABC really in the long term interests of DIsney when viewed from the mid 90s?
A: During the mid 90s, Every major studio looked to get into the distribution business, but Timer Warner Cable will reap the rewards of the new Media as they provide hundreds of Cable channels and some of the fastest Home internet available.
Disney owns a Network Television provider.

GE sells billions of lightbulbs that allow NBC to stick around and Funny thing, they just went the other way and bought a content generating company. Of course, as AV points out, that in and of itself is a tough business to be in, but content isn't the problem. The managment is.

So in the end, Eisner purchased ABC to pad his ego. It's a mediochre distribution network compared to the competitors and has at best a spotty track record.

Q: IS ABC in the best interest of the company now
A: All the issues that were there in the mid 90s are worse now. Network television simply doesn't generate the ad revenue that it needs to to support it's current model.
Iger's old skool and he's an ABC guy. While the iTunes initiative is nice, Disney must rely on the parks to support this division. It has not cable revenues. It doesn't sell lightbulbs.
But Disney could sell shows on iTunes without owning ABC.
Iger seems particularly miscast as the CEO capable of transforming the Network Television model.


So, the parks support ABC which has some decent shows, but subpar ad revenue. They gave up monday night football and couldn't afford sunday night football. iTunes and the free availability of the shows on disney.com is nice, but it really isn't as big a revenue stream.
Rather then revamp the division into something for the new millenium, Disney parks are forced to shore up a dying channel.

So they're robbing peter to pay paul and paul is playing 3 card monty with a guy on the gold line with the money.

 

[YoHo]

.....for the record I take offense to the idea that I love "Wild Hogs" (but the movie is/was profitable)

You keep saying that, but the movie hasn't been out that long and the production budget hasn't been released. In short the statement
Wild Hogs is/was profitable is completely made up. You don't know, you can't possibly know. Please stop using it as an example.

 

[raidermatt]

Was this a question or a statement? Also, did I ever single you out? Did I as you were unable to do a better job then Disney? Funny, you and I agree more then you know, but yet you are quick to assume that I was talking about you!

At the point you jumped in, exactly two posters had weighed in with some criticism of Disney/ABC.

You used they or them 6 times in that post. If the "theys and thems" you were referring to weren't in the thread, perhaps you should have posted your commentary in a more approrpriate location.

If your commentary was related to the discussion in this thread, perhaps you should have the integrity to now stand behind what you said.

I mean, you wouldn't just be trolling us would you?

 

[larworth]

Knox,

Enjoyed the historical perspective; interesting read. While network broadcasting may not actually die out, it sounds like you agree it’s not an industry with very attractive fundamentals. But than wasn’t this the conventional wisdom even back when Disney bought ABC? It just got downplayed by a CEO who was drinking the “only mega media conglomerates” will make any money off entertainment in the next millennium koolaid.

If you take away the hidden acorn the blind squirrels found (ESPN), I doubt ABC would have paid for itself yet. Hard to do when you are either losing money or just breaking even every year. That leaves us with only synergy to generate any sort of ROI. Old Disney did get one thing from ABC, a shot of corporate culture. I remember Eisner always talking about how good they were at cost control and pinching pennies. Didn’t seem too long after that cost cutting became the new mantra at the parks. Of course, one might have assumed it would have been the Old Disney culture (leaders in innovation, customer focus, etc) that they would have wanted to propagated instead.

I think I can understand the distaste some people might have for continuing to focus tons of resources on a division with declining growth prospects and who continues to be at the bottom of the corporate earnings portfolio. Hey, if we had some great growth business that needed funding I can understand milking the parks a little, but for ABC? What are the odds that Iger is going to give up the ghost.

 

[EUROPACL]

Listen, I get the fact that you are not satisfied with the quality of product Disney has been putting out lately, but the facts do not support your assumption that Disney is a downward spiral. You stated the following:



You say that consumers are the ones that make the decisions. I assume you are saying that consumers can voice their displeasure with a company by avoiding the product. If the average consumer was dissatisfied with Disney I would think that Disney would be losing viewers and the park attendance would be going down. However that is not what's happening. Nelson ratings are high for ABC and nearly every park is hitting attendance records. I provided several sources and factual information to back up my side of the argument. If you have something other then "that's crap" or "so?" then I will give greater consideration to your argument.

.....for the record I take offense to the idea that I love "Wild Hogs" (but the movie is/was profitable)

...no not "putting out latley"...putting out for the last 10-15 years. Think Bigger picture..not is ABC up this year or quarter. See the bigger picture. Wild Hogs is not quality...Dancing with the Stars is not quality. Lilo and Stitch IV is not quality. Half finished parks is not quality. Disney is not going to be able to ride the coat tails of quality and good will that was produced 25 years ago forever. Even the die hard "Disney can do no wrong fan" will see that too even if they can't now with Underdog the movie right around the corner, DCA still a mess of a Park, AK, MGM still half finsished and really no plans from Disney to fix, finish or reinvest in them anytime soon. I really feel sorry for the poor DVC crowd that just may find themselves with old Hotels and new owners in the not so distant future so that you can have your Wild Hogs III or latest ABC flop.

...yes we get it you like ABC. I could care less so I really don't want to argue if anyone is really watching Dancing with the Stars or the quality of it...but I bet you know in your heart.

 

[YoHo]

EXACTLY.

And since Disney seems to think the parks are also not a growth business, one wonders just what they think is a growth industry?

In terms of money spent, it would appear to be ABC, yet independently we've just concluded it is not. So what does that say about Disney managment?

 

[MasterShake]

You keep saying that, but the movie hasn't been out that long and the production budget hasn't been released. In short the statement
Wild Hogs is/was profitable is completely made up. You don't know, you can't possibly know. Please stop using it as an example.

Well based on this post from EUROPACL, AV belives that a movie has to make something close to 3x it's production budget to be profitable.

AV who works in the biz has stated several times before that typically a movies needs to make back 3x its production and advertising cost in order to turn a profit. You need to understand that box office money is split between the studios and the theaters. It gets even more complicated when you have more than one studio involved with the release, a big named star who may get a back end cut or directors and producers that have their hand in the pot too.. Deep is rumored to be making around 150 million for the three pirates movies when its all said and done.

It is believed that "Wild Hogs" cost 60 million to make and it has taken in $225,269,656.

 

[shanomi4]

At the point you jumped in, exactly two posters had weighed in with some criticism of Disney/ABC

True!

You used they or them 6 times in that post.

Thanks for the word count!

If the "theys and thems" you were referring to weren't in the thread, perhaps you should have posted your commentary in a more approrpriate location.

Good piont. Koodos to you. However, I had read other threads (one about how disney is falling apart) and when I got to this thread I responded. Maybe i should of started a thread discussing my feelings. not a bad idea!

If your commentary was related to the discussion in this thread, perhaps you should have the integrity to now stand behind what you said.

Ok.

I mean, you wouldn't just be trolling us would you?

Me trolling??? Noooo, why would you think that???

 

[EUROPACL]

It is believed that "Wild Hogs" cost 60 million to make and it has taken in $225,269,656.

Ok a little math then....

60 Million X 3 = 180 Million (without Advertising I might add)


225 Million so far.... Half of that goes to the Theaters( Rule of thumb)... Leaving around 112.5 million so far for Disney. So how much is Tim Allen Getting on the back end? The other stars? The director? Writers (Ok...I know thats funny we all know that movie was written by the Auto Generator buddy-fish out of water machine)...still it cost money to run that thing too.

 

[MasterShake]

...no not "putting out latley"...putting out for the last 10-15 years. Think Bigger picture..not is ABC up this year or quarter. See the bigger picture. Wild Hogs is not quality...Dancing with the Stars is not quality. Lilo and Stitch IV is not quality. Half finished parks is not quality. Disney is not going to be able to ride the coat tails of quality and good will that was produced 25 years ago forever. Even the die hard "Disney can do no wrong fan" will see that too even if they can't now with Underdog the movie right around the corner, DCA still a mess of a Park, AK, MGM still half finsished and really no plans from Disney to fix, finish or reinvest in them anytime soon. I really feel sorry for the poor DVC crowd that just may find themselves with old Hotels and new owners in the not so distant future so that you can have your Wild Hogs III or latest ABC flop.

...yes we get it you like ABC. I could care less so I really don't want to argue if anyone is really watching Dancing with the Stars or the quality of it...but I bet you know in your heart.

LOL, Disney has been poorly run for 15 years, but they are still setting records. Your right, they better watch out before their terrible decisions get them more business.

I’ll state this again since you seemed to have missed it in several posts, I am not a fan of ABC or Wild Hogs. However, I realize that others have a different opinion and that a lot of people must like these products to make them popular.

 

[raidermatt]

Me trolling??? Noooo, why would you think that???

First post uses the classic troll starting point... personal attack that stays just on the right site of the TOS by not actually putting a name in the post.

Never actually offers anything that contributes to the discussion, only continues with the attacks.

Throws out the "I know because I am successful" line.

Follows it all up with a "Who me? But if the shoe fits..."


That's trolling.

 

[MasterShake]

Ok a little math then....

60 Million X 3 = 180 Million (without Advertising I might add)


225 Million so far.... Half of that goes to the Theaters( Rule of thumb)... Leaving around 112.5 million so far for Disney. So how much is Tim Allen Getting on the back end? The other stars? The director? Writers (Ok...I know thats funny we all know that movie was written by the Auto Generator buddy-fish out of water machine)...still it cost money to run that thing too.

Ahhh, so with your logic all movies must make 6-10 times the production cost to start looking at a profit. I guess almost every major movie made today loses money. Seems like they would shut all the theaters down and stop making them.

 

[shanomi4]

First post uses the classic troll starting point... personal attack that stays just on the right site of the TOS by not actually putting a name in the post.

Never actually offers anything that contributes to the discussion, only continues with the attacks.

Throws out the "I know because I am successful" line.

Follows it all up with a "Who me? But if the shoe fits..."


That's trolling.

I was being sarcastic when I said noooo....
Thought that was obvious!!