Disillusioned

[oynk]

Working through our first trip to the parks since all of the changes from the GAC and it hasn't been awful, but I guess I am walking away disillusioned by it all.

My 9yo daughter has a bunch of different things going on, but the bottom line is that she has fairly extreme issues with pain and fatigue and uses a personal stroller/wheelchair for any type of moderately long travel. She has also had multiple surgeries, has issues with incontinence, etc. - You guys get the picture.

I had already explained to her that Disney had made some changes and we were prepared for what happened: She got a tag for her "stroller" and was happily told that she would be able to participate in most of the mainstream lines and that sometimes they would even have special vehicles/lines that she could take her wheelchair into. I probably would have been fine, except...

1. Conversation held in line where we were told that you need to have **** (a particular disability) or you could forget about getting any type of assistance. I hate to say it, but my limited experience seemed to support that observation.

2. Under the old system, we mostly had the same wait for attractions. Sometimes we waited longer, and sometimes - for sure- we had a much shorter wait than the average guest. But, it mostly averaged out. Under this system, we almost always waited longer than the average guest (because we would have the normal stand-by line and then the "special" wheelchair line).

3. I get the idea that if someone has stamina issues they should use a wheelchair, but our issues go beyond that. My daughter can't make it through a standard school day (with modifications) without a two-hour nap in the middle of the day. We can't make rope drop, we can't do even close to a full day.

I totally get that it is not Disney's fault; but, due to the nature of my child's disability we are pretty much totally shut out of the fast pass system. Maybe it will be better when FP+ is fully rolled out, but as it stands the FP are either all gone or the times that are left can't work for her.

We don't want, need, or expect front-of-the-line access. OTOH, every other theme park I have been to has had something like the DAS for wheelchair users, too. I know Disney was probably overly generous in the past with the GAC, but now it seems like they've gone the other way.

So, we are doing what we've always done: Making the best of things and rolling with the punches. But, this is one mom, anyway, who is going to think long and hard about whether our annual trips to WDW are worth it anymore.

 

[peemagg]

Something with the FastPass+ that might be helpful for you is that you get to schedule times that are more convenient to you.

For example for our upcoming trip we have our Fastpasses for most of the rides that we want within 3 consecutive hours. One day at Epcot we have Soarin from 9-10, Livin with the Land from 10-11, and Spaceship Earth from 11-12. This then frees up the rest of the day for whatever else we can get done in the time that I can handle in the parks.

For you a possibility would be maybe scheduling some of your fastpasses at times you figure you might be in the park. If you know that you will likely get to the park by 10 and stay till 1 and maybe come back in the evening, then you could schedule them accordingly.

 

[MinnieVanMom]

I am sorry that your trip was so hard for your daughter. It sounds like your daughters needs were not met at all.

Hopefully Disney will see that for some of us the system is not working. For our family, we won't return until there is a system that can work for our son.

Wishing you the best.

 

[Bete]

We had scooters and we didn't need DAC. We stayed off site the first week of December. Anyway, this trip was a much longer waiting experience for us and we have gone at the same times for the last 5 years. We didn't qualify for fast pass plus because we were offsite and the offering wasn't there at the time for us. Trying to get a fastpass legacy (minus) was always with very bad return times and just not convenient for us. We had better luck with MVMCP, but that didn't make up for our week there. We use to average about 3 to 6 fastpass legacy attractions per day, but this has all changed now. We did two fastpass minus for the entire trip and that was still a little bit of a hassle. I just don't feel we are getting value at Disney any more. Like you we are waiting to see what the final fast pass plus product will be. We need to stay offsite when we go due to taking our dog with us; I won't kennel her. I've had many nice years at Disney World, but with this change it may not happen for us in the future. Fortunately, we have ventured out away from Disney World over the last few years and there are other vacations that we enjoy more, now and I can accommodate my dog better. Many of these trips have been easier to get to and cheaper to do for us. I had a different experience this trip at Disney World and it wasn't as pleasant for us. I feel somewhat savvy about Disney World and it didn't help us. I was happy we got to enjoy the holiday attractions and shows, but that's not enough for us to go back.

 

[aaarcher86]

I do hope they do something about the double waiting for the WC line.

I'd agree with the previous poster that once you are able to use FP+ it will be easier to get what you want into your day. We did the same thing for our Feb trip - scheduled 3 MK rides within 3 hours of each other.

 

[oynk]

Grrrr... And then today two different times, CMs at Epcot saw the "stroller=wheelchair" tag on her wheelchair and asked to see her "card." When I told them we didn't have a card, I was told to go back to Guest Relations and they would give me a card...sigh.

 

[aubriee]

We had scooters and we didn't need DAC. We stayed off site the first week of December. Anyway, this trip was a much longer waiting experience for us and we have gone at the same times for the last 5 years. We didn't qualify for fast pass plus because we were offsite and the offering wasn't there at the time for us. Trying to get a fastpass legacy (minus) was always with very bad return times and just not convenient for us. We had better luck with MVMCP, but that didn't make up for our week there. We use to average about 3 to 6 fastpass legacy attractions per day, but this has all changed now. We did two fastpass minus for the entire trip and that was still a little bit of a hassle. I just don't feel we are getting value at Disney any more. Like you we are waiting to see what the final fast pass plus product will be. We need to stay offsite when we go due to taking our dog with us; I won't kennel her. I've had many nice years at Disney World, but with this change it may not happen for us in the future. Fortunately, we have ventured out away from Disney World over the last few years and there are other vacations that we enjoy more, now and I can accommodate my dog better. Many of these trips have been easier to get to and cheaper to do for us. I had a different experience this trip at Disney World and it wasn't as pleasant for us. I feel somewhat savvy about Disney World and it didn't help us. I was happy we got to enjoy the holiday attractions and shows, but that's not enough for us to go back.

We too stayed offsite Dec 8th-16th and had the exact same experience. My mom was in an ECV and despite have alot of problems the ECV did not meet, she was refused a DAC. At DS we were basically told a DAC was only for kids with autism and they didn't have anything for the elderly, except to use an ECV. My mom has problems with her vision adjusting to darkness, so doesn't do well in dark queues, has some senile dementia and panics in crowds, has to avoid alot of sun due to some of her meds, and can't stay in the parks more than a few hours. Since we were staying offsite we did not qualify for FP+ and return times for FP- never seemed to work, since she couldn't be in the parks that long. Like you we normally use multiple fast passes, but due to late return times, we were able to use only one FP- all week. We rode ALOT fewer rides than normal and stood in much longer lines to ride the very few rides we did get to ride. We have APs for WDW, but had such a miserable time, we have no intention of renewing them. We did have a great time at Universal and Sea World though and will be spending our Florida vacations there. We normally go down there 4-6 times year for 9-11 days each trip, but WDW has lost our business.

 

[lanejudy]

We too stayed offsite Dec 8th-16th and had the exact same experience. My mom was in an ECV and despite have alot of problems the ECV did not meet, she was refused a DAC. At DS we were basically told a DAC was only for kids with autism and they didn't have anything for the elderly, except to use an ECV. ...

I absolutely agree that nobody should be told "autism" is the only need for DAS; that simply isn't correct and is counter-productive to the intent of the DAS. I also believe WDW needs to do a better job listening to the needs described and not simply seeing an ECV as many people have more than 1 area of need. However, the DAS will do nothing for much of what you described -- elderly, child or otherwise; it simply provides an option to wait out the standby time in a different location, no quicker or alternative access.

... My mom has problems with her vision adjusting to darkness, so doesn't do well in dark queues...

Unlike the old GAC, the DAS does not have various stamps and nothing to accommodate vision issues. Vision concerns need to be told at each attraction and handled by the CMs at that attraction.

... has some senile dementia and panics in crowds...

She panics, but with the rest of your party present can you calm her? Will she get hurt or hurt others in her panic? The DAS would allow her to wait elsewhere, but crowds can be in the shops, restaurants, and general park walkways as well. My father has mild dementia, and to tell you the truth, a day at WDW would be so much stress for him there is no "card" or assistance that would make it worthwhile for us to take him. Maybe your mom isn't affected as much as my father's "mild" diagnosis.

... has to avoid alot of sun due to some of her meds...

Most of the line queues are shaded and there is more sun exposure walking around WDW that while standing in line. Unless you planned to sit out the DAS waits in a restaurant or shop -- and as noted above those could be crowded situations -- the line may actually be a safer/shadier area.

...and can't stay in the parks more than a few hours...

And this is one of the primary arguments people make, but the DAS will not allow you to do more in those few hours than riding standby or using FP. I understand the FP times did not fit your family's schedule, but that really isn't WDW's problem to provide a preferred ride time or to make your waits shorter to have a shorter day. I'd love for us to get through more rides in just a few hours, but it's simply not something I expect from WDW or anywhere. Those who expect to get a lot done in a few hours seem to be the loudest complaints that the DAS doesn't work. But that kind of accommodation simply isn't "equal" access compared to non-disabled guests, and "equal" is the intent of the DAS.

FP+ will eventually be rolled out to all guests, so that might help in the future. Early December has historically been a fairly quiet time, but I've heard the crowds this past year were much greater than normal. Maybe you could find a slower time of year to bring mom.

 

[nezy]

It.just seems to me that wdw had traditionally been a very friendly and welcoming place for all of those who needed accommodations for whatever the reason. While my family does not need an accommodation I have NEVER felt inconvenienced by those who did. I really do not understand why Disney felt they needed to chang a system that was beneficial to so many. Did some people get an assistance card who maybe really didn't need to, I am sure . However, I rather a few get away with it then those who have had such ease in vacationing with sometimes a difficult circumstances have such a struggle or even inconvenience.

 

[aaarcher86]

It.just seems to me that wdw had traditionally been a very friendly and welcoming place for all of those who needed accommodations for whatever the reason. While my family does not need an accommodation I have NEVER felt inconvenienced by those who did. I really do not understand why Disney felt they needed to chang a system that was beneficial to so many. Did some people get an assistance card who maybe really didn't need to, I am sure . However, I rather a few get away with it then those who have had such ease in vacationing with sometimes a difficult circumstances have such a struggle or even inconvenience.

There are just too many people needing the card for the system to maintain in the way it worked before. Unfortunately, many people became accustomed to the way the old card was and the new way isn't as magical because it did take away some of the unintentional benefits. But it is more of an equal, ADA compliant system.

 

[LockShockBarrel]

There are just too many people needing the card for the system to maintain in the way it worked before. Unfortunately, many people became accustomed to the way the old card was and the new way isn't as magical because it did take away some of the unintentional benefits. But it is more of an equal, ADA compliant system.

Change "needing" to "using" and I'd agree with you.

 

[TheRustyScupper]

. . . Unfortunately, many people became accustomed to the way the old card was and the new way isn't as magical because it did take away some of the unintentional benefits . . .

1) Alas, how true.
2) ADA guarantees "ACCESS" not special treatment.
. . . it does not provide front-of-the-line access
. . . it does not allow immediate or Fast Pass access
. . . it does not give more rights than available to ordinary citizens/guests
3) The previous GAC gave undue access and privilege to the card holders.
. . . cardholders could ride multiple times while other guests waited
. . . cardholders could get immediate access to rides while others stood in line
4) With the new system, all guests are more-or-less on even footing


NOTE: Only as a personal opinion and not speaking for other CM's, I
think the change is for the better. I truly want handicapped individuals to have
access to the rides/attractions, but other guests should not have their rights
abused. Special privileges do not belong at WDW, where Walt wanted everyone
to be treated equally.

 

[OurBigTrip]

There are just too many people needing the card for the system to maintain in the way it worked before. Unfortunately, many people became accustomed to the way the old card was and the new way isn't as magical because it did take away some of the unintentional benefits. But it is more of an equal, ADA compliant system.

Exactly. The GAC was never meant to provide the kind of privileged access that it did, but once people got used to it, they sure didn't want to give it up.

 

[Evil Princess]

1) Alas, how true.
2) ADA guarantees "ACCESS" not special treatment.
. . . it does not provide front-of-the-line access
. . . it does not allow immediate or Fast Pass access
. . . it does not give more rights than available to ordinary citizens/guests
3) The previous GAC gave undue access and privilege to the card holders.
. . . cardholders could ride multiple times while other guests waited
. . . cardholders could get immediate access to rides while others stood in line
4) With the new system, all guests are more-or-less on even footing


NOTE: Only as a personal opinion and not speaking for other CM's, I
think the change is for the better. I truly want handicapped individuals to have
access to the rides/attractions, but other guests should not have their rights
abused. Special privileges do not belong at WDW, where Walt wanted everyone
to be treated equally.

As a former Guest Relations CM, I agree to a point...

Now that I'm no longer a CM, I'm a teacher. I hold certification in general education and special education. Currently, I work in an ABA room with students who have Autism. My boyfriends 22 year old brother is severely Autistic as well. The GACs reduced wait times enabled guests with Autism to actually be able to enjoy Disney. Many kids with Autism have to do things in specific order and have sensory/communication issues that result in full scale meltdowns. Knowing children with Autism, I have to say that without the GAC in it's former form, many of these families would never be able to handle a day at Disney.

That already is a complaint from many parents who have Autistic children who have gone to the parks since this change.

Unfortunately, I've been on the other side as well, and I know exactly how much this system was abused by guests. Of course, people abusing the system had to ruin it for those guests who REALLY benefitted and NEEDED the GAC the way that it was. It was becoming ridiculous.

I just find it difficult to buy into the whole, "Everyone should be treated equally" when some of these kids have severe disabilities that result in them taking in the world differently. I mean, these kids aren't treated the same exact way as a "typical" child in school, because their needs are different. They CAN'T be in a typical classroom environment the way other children are. WDW in the past was very accommodating, and it was a chance for these families to take a "normal" vacation and actually be able to enjoy Disney like everyone else without dealing with epic Autistic tantrums and meltdowns. The GAC made WDW DO-ABLE for these families.

I see both sides. It's hard.

 

[SueM in MN]

Even if everyone using GACs for alternate entry needed that access, there were just too many. Looking only at autism, there are statistics that say one in 88 children are affected with autism. Add all the other disabling conditions that guests might have requested a GAC for and it's easy to see that GACs could not continue as they were.

Adding that number of people to Fastpass lines whenever they choose yo show up was backing up the Fastpass lines way too much.

 

[Gracie09]

However you can't compare education, which is a right and governed by several laws besides the ada, and a trip to an amusement park is not a right. Children with severe disabilities sometimes cannot be educated in mainstream classrooms for a variety of reasons. However, they are entitled to an education in the least restrictive environment. My DD cannot go to the beach. As in she will have a screaming crying melt down from the second she arrives until she leaves. She will spend the time sitting on my lap not touching the sand. We don't go to the beach with her. The few times we go with our other daughter, one parent goes the other stays behind with dd1. There is no accommodation a public beach can make for her other than maybe removing the sand. So has the operator of the beach violated the ADA, no. Unfortunately there may be no reasonable accommodation disney may be able to make for every person with a disability. By its very nature its a crowded chaotic place, that is loud and chock full of stimuli. There is no real way to change that without changing the nature of Disney
The ADA says they have to provide access and that is what the das does.

As a former Guest Relations CM, I agree to a point...

Now that I'm no longer a CM, I'm a teacher. I hold certification in general education and special education. Currently, I work in an ABA room with students who have Autism. My boyfriends 22 year old brother is severely Autistic as well. The GACs reduced wait times enabled guests with Autism to actually be able to enjoy Disney. Many kids with Autism have to do things in specific order and have sensory/communication issues that result in full scale meltdowns. Knowing children with Autism, I have to say that without the GAC in it's former form, many of these families would never be able to handle a day at Disney.

That already is a complaint from many parents who have Autistic children who have gone to the parks since this change.

Unfortunately, I've been on the other side as well, and I know exactly how much this system was abused by guests. Of course, people abusing the system had to ruin it for those guests who REALLY benefitted and NEEDED the GAC the way that it was. It was becoming ridiculous.

I just find it difficult to buy into the whole, "Everyone should be treated equally" when some of these kids have severe disabilities that result in them taking in the world differently. I mean, these kids aren't treated the same exact way as a "typical" child in school, because their needs are different. They CAN'T be in a typical classroom environment the way other children are. WDW in the past was very accommodating, and it was a chance for these families to take a "normal" vacation and actually be able to enjoy Disney like everyone else without dealing with epic Autistic tantrums and meltdowns. The GAC made WDW DO-ABLE for these families.

I see both sides. It's hard.

 

[aaarcher86]

In an educational setting, the school wouldn't take away from a non disabled child to accommodate the autistic child. Both are accommodated as needed and given the final product they're entitled to. The GAC was taking away from non disabled guests to accommodate the users.

If every GAC family adds 5 minutes to the standard que, just 6 users going in during 1 persons wait will increase their wait for a single ride by a half an hour.

The DAS is the solution (as shown by the other amusement parks) that works in a way that hinders the least amount of people. ALL people in the parks. There will never be a solution that fits everyone, everywhere.

I think they need to look at and change the WC ques, but that's about it.

 

[Vidia2]

Why do so many of these threads have to end up debating what accommodations should be given to people with autism?

It's contentious and discriminatory to continuously single out autism and debate what accommodations they should or SHOULD NOT get or whether or not they are largely the cause of the GAC being changed to the DAS.

 

[SueM in MN]

However you can't compare education, which is a right and governed by several laws besides the ada, and a trip to an amusement park is not a right. Children with severe disabilities sometimes cannot be educated in mainstream classrooms for a variety of reasons. However, they are entitled to an education in the least restrictive environment. My DD cannot go to the beach. As in she will have a screaming crying melt down from the second she arrives until she leaves. She will spend the time sitting on my lap not touching the sand. We don't go to the beach with her. The few times we go with our other daughter, one parent goes the other stays behind with dd1. There is no accommodation a public beach can make for her other than maybe removing the sand. So has the operator of the beach violated the ADA, no. Unfortunately there may be no reasonable accommodation disney may be able to make for every person with a disability. By its very nature its a crowded chaotic place, that is loud and chock full of stimuli. There is no real way to change that without changing the nature of Disney
The ADA says they have to provide access and that is what the das does.

In an educational setting, the school wouldn't take away from a non disabled child to accommodate the autistic child. Both are accommodated as needed and given the final product they're entitled to. The GAC was taking away from non disabled guests to accommodate the users.

If every GAC family adds 5 minutes to the standard que, just 6 users going in during 1 persons wait will increase their wait for a single ride by a half an hour.

The DAS is the solution (as shown by the other amusement parks) that works in a way that hinders the least amount of people. ALL people in the parks. There will never be a solution that fits everyone, everywhere.

I think they need to look at and change the WC ques, but that's about it.

Agree with both

 

[SueM in MN]

Why do so many of these threads have to end up debating what accommodations should be given to people with autism?

It's contentious and discriminatory to continuously single out autism and debate what accommodations they should or SHOULD NOT get or whether or not they are largely the cause of the GAC being changed to the DAS.

I would also agree that no one group should be singled out - I only used autism as an example because there are numbers out there estimating how may people are affected by it.
But, also added, that is just one group that used GACs. Looking at all the other people with disabilities, there could easily be one out of every 40 or 50 guests using GACs on an average day.

I've read estimates that about 47,000 guests are at WDW most days. So, the one in 40-50 guests adds up to a pretty big number.

Edited to add - one of my nieces is director of an autism program and I have another niece and nephew with Aspergers, so have nothing against people with autism.