Discounts to DVC owners...or lack thereof

I'm not sure I understand the reasoning that a discount costs Disney money across the board. It costs them nothing unless people use it. Then, assuming people spend more, they actually make up for the slight loss.

I do agree there are some people who would not spend more based on a discount but, trust me, there are WAY more people who spend more when offered a discount than people who wouldn't. This one big reasons companies offer discounts to begin with.

Also, if they offered 10-15% off passes across the board for DVC owners it wouldn't hurt Disney. If it did, they would offer us no discount on passes at all.

Look, one of Disney's main goals is to never have you leave the property. If you leave the property you're spending money elsewhere. If you stay on property, Disney is seeing that revenue. Giving us discounts encourages us to stay on the property and spend more of our money. They should offer discounts for this reason if for no other reason.

I understand why Disney might not want to give discounts but I think it's very shortsighted on their part. They could be realizing quite a bit of extra revenue...revenue which is going somewhere else. Last time I checked, Disney was crying the blues about park revenue being down. What better way to encourage more spending in the parks than giving your most loyal customers an incentive to spend more?
 
I understand why Disney might not want to give discounts but I think it's very shortsighted on their part.

Myopic, pencil necked geeks in the accounting department are to blame.
 
YOO-HOO!! ANYBODY from the appropriate Disney dept. reading this--
PLEASE just give us a DVC discount on the passes. You know most of us want to see this.
Dumping a whole pile of pixie dust on this one:p...
please please please...
a very loyal DVC member
 
Right now we go 6 days once a year (soon to change, but I digress)....as it stands we buy 7 day PHP for the whole family , 2 adults 3 kids...those PHP last us three years and cost about $1350....If Disney saw it's way clear to offer me some type of "length of stay" pass at $20 a day for adults and lets say $15 a day for the kids ($20 x 6 = $120 for each adult plus $15 x 3= $90 for each kid) = $510 per year x 3 years = $1530.
They would make more just on the passes not too mention the extra amount of money I spend in the parks.
One person does not a policy make, but it sure would be nice :D
 


They DO give us discounts on passes. They give us a 10% discount on the UPH (Length of Stay) pass. The only pass which guarentees Disney will get our money one way or another regardless of how many days we spend in the parks.

An annual pass (nice though it is) doesn't guarentee this. It really only encourages us to spend at least nine (? eight nine, somewhere in there) days in the parks. But after you do that, your pass is paid for and you can spend your days at Universal. Does it make it easier to hop into Epcot for a restaurant meal? Sure - but last I checked, most Epcot restaurants were pretty busy at dinnertime and already short of tables without encouraging this behavior. From Disney's standpoint, should they care if its a DVC family sitting by Rio de Tiempo, or a first time family? There aren't many times a year that table isn't filled by somebody at mealtimes.

(Now a 10% discount on meals consumed between 2 and 5pm by DVC holders or AP holders might make Disney a mint.)

A discount on hoppers doesn't encourage much change in behavior regarding park attendance at all. A family planning on spending a day at Universal is probably still going to do that.

(BTW, the $3000 spending above on your budget is Disney only. If you are spending $3000, but $1000 offsite, and discounts would encourage you to spend the extra $1000 onsite, you are part of the crowd spending more at Disney.)

Discounts (provided they are used) ALWAYS cost you money. They eat into your margin. You may be able to make this up by getting more volume (either on that product or another part of your business), but its risky - as a thousand dot coms discovered.
 
Originally posted by crisi
From Disney's standpoint, should they care if its a DVC family sitting by Rio de Tiempo, or a first time family? There aren't many times a year that table isn't filled by somebody at mealtimes.

(Now a 10% discount on meals consumed between 2 and 5pm by DVC holders or AP holders might make Disney a mint.)

You hit it, Crisi.

Annual passholders get a discount, too:

Epcot
Sit down restaurant
Lunch
Monday thru Friday

Gee, maybe they thought about that a little bit, as opposed to saying, "Hey, we mint money down here, let's be nice guys".;)
 
Well, the fact that Disney does give a park pass discount--on the UPH only--speaks volumes.

Who buys the UPH that is DVC? It seems most buy APs or PHPs since we know we will be back. Not very many on these boards are purchasing the UPH from what I've read--again speaking to the fact that Disney will try to entice only where the enticement is needed and they know it will affect their bottom line.

Actually for me, enticement to buy passes will be needed because I do not intend to go to the parks daily or even close to it simply because there is no discount and we will be there so much. My thinking is different. I will not feel the need to have APs so I can go all the time. I will be justifying my DVC purchase, not by buying APs, but by actually cutting corners elsewhere--such as fewer days in parks and more days in DTD/boardwalk or just enjoying the atmosphere of the resort. I also feel that since we will be there more frequently, I do not need to do commando-style park touring, so as a new DVC member, I plan on doing 2 or maybe 3 days in the parks for a week-long trip--perhaps even just buying single day passes, as we rarely go from one of the four big parks to another on the same day.
 


Disney powers-that-be: You may not be minting money, but, Disney Corp doesn't appear to be going belly-up anytime soon. In your backrooms of accounting & calculating Disney business, (you're getting lots of help here in this thread), is there some way you can manage a DVC pass discount that doesn't end up costing us? IMHO that UMP discount doesn't count--we never intend to use it--maybe we aren't who your targeting either. IMHO--from MANY posts here (and from talking to other DVC members that aren't on this board), the biggest gripe is the lack of a DVC pass discount (annual & hopper, NOT UMP).
Pixie-dusting the heck out of this one...just see what you can do for a decent DVC member pass discount...
Call it good-will, or "Boy, Disney Sure Is Nice to It's DVC Members":D, and, if after a trial-run, you're losing too much profit from such a business decision, you can always "adjust" it.;) :)
Will continue to hope that someday...
 
Originally posted by disneycrazed139

Who buys the UPH that is DVC? It seems most buy APs or PHPs since we know we will be back. Not very many on these boards are purchasing the UPH from what I've read--again speaking to the fact that Disney will try to entice only where the enticement is needed and they know it will affect their bottom line.

Actually for me, enticement to buy passes will be needed because I do not intend to go to the parks daily or even close to it simply because there is no discount and we will be there so much....

... I also feel that since we will be there more frequently, I do not need to do commando-style park touring, so as a new DVC member, I plan on doing 2 or maybe 3 days in the parks for a week-long trip--perhaps even just buying single day passes, as we rarely go from one of the four big parks to another on the same day.

That's exactly why they have offered the UPH discount to DVC members- to entice us to try it. (We have used it for our guests many times and found it to be a great bargain.) I have the impression that it is actually a much used perk by DVC members- some obviously have a different impression - only Disney knows for sure.

Keep in mind that Disney (not DVC, but Theme Parks Division) considers that guests do go into parks 2-3 days per week they are at WDW. ... AND that the "average" guest comes to WDW every 3 years. Since few DVC members fit that second profile (and they haven't yet come to understand how DVC members fit into the BIG picture), most discount programs are tailored to the guest who comes every 3 years for 2-3 days.

As indicated by a recent poll on this forum, over 50% of DVC members already buy AP's and most of the rest are already purchasing UPH or Hopper passes. It would appear to me that there is little incentive to discount AP's to a group who already is paying the regular rate. You can argue that a few more would buy AP's, but the financial reality is that they (Theme Parks Div) would likely lose more than they gain.

My .02 :)
 
I know they offer a ticket discount but ONLY if I stay at a DVC property. My wife and I are going down next month and would love to stay on a DVC property. Only problem is I can't get a room for the entire stay so we're stuck at CBR. So not only can I NOT stay on DVC property but I also lose my 10% discount! There's no reason (I can see) they can't offer discounts on tickets to DVC members no matter where we stay.

And you are correct. If people use a discount it does always cost money. However, I would venture to guess if you looked at the numbers you'd find those people taking advantage of a discount spend more money. If I spend $100 with no discount and Disney makes 30% ($30) on that $100 That's fine. But if I spend $200 with a 10% discount they'd still wind up making 20% (let's keep it simple, they'll actually make more) on $200. So now they're making $40 (rather than the $30) PLUS they have more revenue to show the shareholders. Not bad.

I understand this was a simplistic example and it's certainly not that simple but Disney will make out. Don't worry.
 
Doc said
You can argue that a few more would buy AP's, but the financial reality is that they (Theme Parks Div) would likely lose more than they gain.
Although I think it would be a lot more than "a few" I do believe Doc has hit (although understated) upon a valid point. For Disney to give us a discount on an AP it is unlikely to be a huge money spinner for the Theme park ticketing division (IMHO they would be "small up" but that department is taking all the risk for a small part of any potential reward). It would be the restaurants and shops, in those parks, that stand to benefit the most. I believe they are a separate profit centre and there lies the rub. Those that run the theme park admissions are unlikely to offer a "free leg up" to the executives in the restaurant division. All that does is gift the next promotion to the exec who works in the more profitable department. I have no doubt that as an entity Disney would make more money by offering DVC members a decent break on APs, but unless the decision is made at the level of management that is OVERALL responsible for WDW I think that divisional rivalry and "what's in it for my department" mentality will mean it is unlikely that anyone will have the testicular fortitude to put the offer on the table.

While the UMP may be used by a number of DVC guests, the poll held on ticket use suggested it was very much a minority option, less than 20% if my memory serves me correctly. Comments on these boards suggest that most members, myself included, think the pass offers value only in a limited numbers of situations.
 
Originally posted by goofy4wdw59
Call it good-will, or "Boy, Disney Sure Is Nice to It's DVC Members":D, and, if after a trial-run, you're losing too much profit from such a business decision, you can always "adjust" it.;) :)
Will continue to hope that someday...

Whoa! Let's see how fast that lead balloon can hit the ground.

Did you read the 100+ posts that hit this board when they cancelled pool-hopping at SAB ? They know how members react when benefits are removed, so I don't think they issue them or remove them without thinking real hard about the potential impact.

To Crisi's point, let's work some basic marketing. At a fixed volume, every $ of increased sales, without increased cost, moves straight to the bottom line. At the same time, at a fixed volume, every dollar of reduced price comes off of the bottom line.

Got to make the volume number work. I don't think they see it.
 
If I spend $100 with no discount and Disney makes 30% ($30) on that $100 That's fine. But if I spend $200 with a 10% discount they'd still wind up making 20% (let's keep it simple, they'll actually make more) on $200. So now they're making $40 (rather than the $30) PLUS they have more revenue to show the shareholders. Not bad.

And here is where we get into what people will actually do.

You spend $200 instead of $100 an Disney's profit goes from $30 to $40.

"Bob" spend the same $100 he would have spent. Disney's profit is $20.

"Bobette" buys exactly what she would have purchased anyway, So she doesn't spent $100. She spends $90. Disney's profit on her is $18 (20% of $90).

Now the discount program has "cost" Disney $12 on Bobette, $10 on Bob and made $10 on you. If this proportion were to hold up over the whole population (lets keep it simple), Disney takes a 25% hit to profit. That's a lot of money.

Here is another question. Most DVCers on this board are very vocal about what a great financial deal DVC is. They already feel they save money on rooms. One of the selling points Disney has to DVC is saving money on your rooms (and then, spending it the parks). But some of these very same people who are vocal about what a deal Disney is giving them on their rooms cite lack of discounts as the only reason they don't go into the parks. Why should Disney believe us that we will spend more time in the parks or spend more money if they give us discounts, when they've already "given" us accomodation "discounts" and we don't go into the parks?
 
Originally posted by vernon

While the UMP may be used by a number of DVC guests, the poll held on ticket use suggested it was very much a minority option, less than 20% if my memory serves me correctly. Comments on these boards suggest that most members, myself included, think the pass offers value only in a limited numbers of situations.

The problem with this poll (and many polls in general) is that the choices were all either or. I have an AP and voted accordingly- however, whenever we have guests join us, I always get the UPH for them. I think the 20% figure may actually be higher- but my point in making that prior comment was that DVC members are already significantly "investing" in either AP's or UPH (now we're getting up near 75% for those 2 options).

I also think that Vernon is right on with his assessment about the relationship of the leadership of these different divisions. We often like to think of Disney as one big happy family always looking at the BIG picture when, in reality, I suspect that the individual components sometimes "temporarily" forget what that picture looks like in favor of short term gain for their own piece of the turf. I do understand that DVC is now afforded a higher respect within the upper management, which ultimately may lead to a broader consideration overall.

Stay Tuned!
 
Couple of thoughts in no particular order.

Walt Disney Parks and Resorts is the business segment responsible for the all theme parks (including partially and non-owned parks where royalties and management fees are earned), DCL, DVC, ESPN Zone, Anaheim Sports and WDI. WDP&R is the level where the turf battles stop for what we have been discussing.

Disney cares very deeply about return guest metrics. They track how many trips, how frequently, how long each stay, what brings you back (by the way, #1 reason is the CMs), etc.

Now here is my opinion -- Disney has concluded that return guests (and DVC members certainly fits that definition) believe there is value in the Disney product and service. If that is the case, wouldn't their strategy be to get new guests to try the experience? Once they try it, there is a very strong correlation that they will return. There is little reason to invest more in the repeat guest other than to ensure the the quality of the experience is repeated for each visit.

Unfortunately, our society is discount driven (look what the auto and airline industries have done to themselves). The seller wants to use discounts to convert the prospect into a buyer. The buyer is fine with that as long as the incentives continue. When they don't or when the discounts are limited to new prospects, the buyer becomes dissatisfied. So seller must respond with incentives to maintain in addition to the ones to convert.

Disney is no different. They are use financial incentives to adjsut demand for a particular venue, or time of day use and the like. Discounts go where revenues have not (did I say that right?).

Don't get me wrong, I would love more discounts, provided it did not diminish over time Disney's ability to deliver top quality experience. Certainly a simpler set of discounts would be appreciated so I did not need to carry around a perks page (or whatever it is called).

But in the end I must admit that I purchased DVC for the accommodation value. So everything else is a "plus" (to use a Walt concept).
 
Another problem with polls on this board is there is no indiction that DisBoarders are a representative sample of DVC owners. It seems likely that the people who invest their time here own more points than average, care more about Disney management decisions than average, and are better educated about their options than average.

Mr. and Mrs. Average probably buy UPHs because that's what DVC has indicated they should do and they've never looked any further than what Member Services or the Front Desk tells them they should do.
 
Mr. and Mrs. Average probably buy UPHs because that's what DVC has indicated they should do and they've never looked any further than what Member Services or the Front Desk tells them they should do
Even if this view is correct ( and it's one that does a disservice to common sense of those DVC owners, who by purchasing into DVC they have shown they have a pretty reasonable grasp on the concept of value for money) , I do think that sometime in the next 40 years they are going to wise up.
I don't think there is anything special or particularly "educated" about the DVC members that frequent these boards, it just means we've been lucky enough to find our way here.
 
vernon,

I don't mean "educated" as in better than them, or holding master's degrees. I mean "educated" as in we have debated the wording of the POS here. We have had long discussions over whether renting your points out to cruise is a better deal than cruising on points. We debate whether its worth it to fly in Friday and spend Friday and Saturday night for cash in an offsite (or onsite) hotel to save points. And we discuss what the best ticket is for a member's circumstances. How many DVC members not on these boards (or the few similar boards out there) actually have discussed the variation in tickets and what the decision process is to chose an AP over a PH over a UPH? People may have come to the same conclusions independantly, but I know I've learned a lot from the discussions on these boards - and we are all here to either learn or share our knowledge - and advantage that people not here do not have.

And buying DVC does not indicate financial acumen any more than it indicates you made an emotional purchase decision while on "the best vacation you ever had" and qualified for a $10,000 loan. I have friends who have the financial common sense of MC Hammer and own DVC. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut.
 
I'm not sure but I believe people tend to spend more when offered discounts. If this is true Disney WOULD make more money. Of course, if everybody just spent the same amount they normally would Disney would lose. I just don't see that happening overall.

I also don't know about DVC being such a great deal on accomodations. I can tell you I don't believe I'm receiving such a great value for my accomodations. I've got 230 points (paying off the parents) plus annual fees (we'll call it $1,000 to make it easy). So I'm paying whatever I'm paying for the points plus the $1,000 per year. I can tell you I'd be able to get a room at a moderate resort fairily inexpensively--especially with the incentives Disney has been offering. In fact, I know I could take a week vacation for LESS than what I'm spending for the (roughly) one week I get with my 230 points. I didn't buy into DVC for any accomodations discount because there really isn't one.

Of course, if you compare the accomodations you receive with DVC vs. what I'd get at a moderate resort you could argue the accomodations are better. You could also argue I can get a larger place (3-bedroom townhouse) than I could at a moderate resort. Unfortunately, this isn't really an issue with my wife and baby boy.

Bottom line is we get discounts for some things but not others. I'd like to see Disney/DVC simplify this for us.
 
I think Crisi raises a really good point about DVC members, polls generally, and the opinions on this board. They represent just that--this board only. With 70,000+ members, a lot of the stats, figures, statements gathered here only come from few of the many, no matter what the subject being discussed.
 

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