Disappointed in Kindergarten (Part 2)

[ilisao]

Good grief. Or it could mean she needs to learn basic k behaviors such as sitting quietly...Not every problem behavior is due to a child being so special the class isn't good enough for them.

Thank you.

 

[ilisao]

I do blame the teacher. I think it is her job to teach my kid something NEW to keep her interested while she is in school. I think it is the teachers job to make kids that love school and learning continue to love it.

And it is your job to teach your child that at times they will be bored and need to sit quietly. Your child will learn plenty of new things in kindergarten, but she will not learn something new every single day in school. Once you accept that, your life will be a lot easier.

 

[Aristomommy]

And it is your job to teach your child that at times they will be bored and need to sit quietly. Your child will learn plenty of new things in kindergarten, but she will not learn something new every single day in school. Once you accept that, your life will be a lot easier.

For some kids, this "sometimes" can be everyday most of the time. I wish Kindergarten was socialization over academics, but in our state it is not the case. Due to NCLB, teachers have to cover an extensive curriculum and they have very little time to do it. If Kindergarten was about sharing, taking turns and working as a team, I would be the first one to support the effort. But when kids come home with homework and spend a large portion of their day completing worksheets, then the work needs to appropriate for that child. A good teacher can recognize this and will differentiate. We were lucky to find such a great teacher who created a reading group for 4 children and these "troublemakers" were excited about learning. I am glad the OP is active and staying on top of things instead of telling her child "you will be bored". That'll create some excitement about learning....

 

[dreamer17555]

Believe me...I know DD is not perfect...I live with her. But it is her dissapointment in K, not mine. She is ready for big kid school and thought that was what she was getting. I am angry, because she has turned from a kid that loves school to one that doesn't want to get ready in the morning.

I am sure if your DD is as smart as you say she is she is well aware of your anger. I doubt that is going to help her adjust to Kindergarten. Again try to be postive about school.

I do blame the teacher. I think it is her job to teach my kid something NEW to keep her interested while she is in school. I think it is the teachers job to make kids that love school and learning continue to love it.

I teach DD plenty. But I am not qualified to teach her how to do math problems using the methods the school says is right (certain methods, show your work, etc.). This goes for other subjects as well. Not to mention that I have to work fulltime and have ALOT of other things to teach DD that are not academic. By suggesting that I teach her at home that pretty much lets all teachers and the schools off the hook...what are they even there for? Maybe we don't need teachers? (I don't really believe this).

Its a teachers job to try to have kids love learning but no teacher can make a child love school and learning. It is that teachers job to try to teach her class as best she can. If your child is so far ahead you might need to consider skipping her a grade (that may cause problems of its own but its a choice). Honestly I would be worried about skipping any child that cannot be quiet and sit still when told to (for any reason short of injury or illness). Most 1st grade teachers will not allow that to continue in their classrooms.

Showing work in math in K? I think you are focused on the wrong things. It sounds like you are worried about test grades not educating your child. With Math start addition and subtration using counters (mine love to use Fruit Loops) and then move on to without counters and then to flashcards. To be fair it is a parents job always to teach their children. Yes teachers are needed and wonderful but remember you are you DD's first and most important teacher. I believe your DD will learn a lot of needed social skills with her current teacher (like how to be quiet).

Honestly I hold my DD to a stricter code of conduct because she is so smart. She knows what is right and wrong more than most kids in her peer group and I expect her to act accordingly. I am surprised that you would not hold your DD to similar standards.

Thanks for the cute story. It's good to know that there are teachers here like you. It's funny too because I talked to DD some more about acting up in class. She understands that it's unacceptable. She asked if it was ok to tell the teacher if she is bored. I told her yes, and that's what she plans on doing. I hope she doesn't get in trouble for this.

I have an appt. with the teacher on Tuesday, I hope that we can work something out that's good for everyone.

No it is not okay to say you are bored. That is rude. Name one real life social situtation where it is okay and acceptable to say you are bored. Your DD needs to be taught manners not math.

-Becca-

 

[sashagiselle]

Another hi-jack about starfall.com - It is an awesome site, my dd5 has learned tons and now her baby sister loves it too (for the record, I would always focus on playing and crafts etc and I specifically put them in a daycare with the same goals, the wanting to learn reading/writing is nothing I can take credit for) I just put in an order for some Magic Treehouse books and will be sending them to school with dd5, great idea.

To the OP, good luck with your meeting on Tuesday, just be careful with how you come across, you want to be able to make your point and discuss your expectations of them, but do it tactifully and also be prepared to discuss what you will be doing in terms of supplementing her education at home. Educating kids is a partnership between the school and ourselves.

 

[tmarquez]

OP, is it possible for you to maybe volunteer in your child's classroom or maybe take a day to observe what is going on? I don't mean to come across as offense but maybe not taking what your dd says about being bored until you have seen it? At 5, my ds convinced his K teacher all I ever fed him was popcorn and peanut butter. Imagine my surprise when she felt it was such a problem she asked me. I think at 5 their imagination is bigger than the truth sometimes. It might also help to alleviate some of the anger and frustration you are feeling towards the teacher if you see first hand whats going on. It could be as simple as another student taking alot of the teachers time because of behavioral issues or something along those lines. If there is a problem you have witnessed at that point I would definitely go to the administration and start getting things resolved.

Kelly

I understand re: popcorn and peanut butter. I could observe for a time, but due to work hours it's difficult to be in class. I don't want to go to the administration, I really just want to know if this is typical and if it is all I can expect. If it is, we will find a way to just deal with it.

And it is your job to teach your child that at times they will be bored and need to sit quietly. Your child will learn plenty of new things in kindergarten, but she will not learn something new every single day in school. Once you accept that, your life will be a lot easier.

She knows that. As I have repeated over and over again here...she has never in 3 years gotten in trouble for talking or acting up in school.

Its a teachers job to try to have kids love learning but no teacher can make a child love school and learning. It is that teachers job to try to teach her class as best she can. If your child is so far ahead you might need to consider skipping her a grade (that may cause problems of its own but its a choice). Honestly I would be worried about skipping any child that cannot be quiet and sit still when told to (for any reason short of injury or illness). Most 1st grade teachers will not allow that to continue in their classrooms.

Showing work in math in K? I think you are focused on the wrong things. It sounds like you are worried about test grades not educating your child. With Math start addition and subtration using counters (mine love to use Fruit Loops) and then move on to without counters and then to flashcards. To be fair it is a parents job always to teach their children. Yes teachers are needed and wonderful but remember you are you DD's first and most important teacher. I believe your DD will learn a lot of needed social skills with her current teacher (like how to be quiet).

Honestly I hold my DD to a stricter code of conduct because she is so smart. She knows what is right and wrong more than most kids in her peer group and I expect her to act accordingly. I am surprised that you would not hold your DD to similar standards.

You don't listen very well yourself. I said it is the teachers job to make sure a kid that comes into her class loving learning and school...leaves her class feeling the same way.

I'm not worried about test grades...she's never even taken a test before?! She does math in her head...I know this is not "allowed" in school. She does it for FUN. Sometimes she tries to do problems that are more complicated than what she knows how to do and this is not something I'm trained to deal with. Fruit Loops and flashcards are more my speed.

You do not know us and are not qualified to speak on DD's social skills, behavior or our "standards". Even her current K teacher has commented positively on her social skills. And she has never had a behavior problem in the past.

No it is not okay to say you are bored. That is rude. Name one real life social situtation where it is okay and acceptable to say you are bored. Your DD needs to be taught manners not math.

-Becca-

Wow...you're a real gem!

 

[eliza61]

Op,
Here is an interesting article on Kindergarten and Kindergarten teachers. It's from the Philadelphia Inquirer Newspaper. They interviewed 2 top Kindergarten teachers who have been at it for 20+ years.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/magazine/27519989.html

Very interesting read.

 

[dreamer17555]

I'm not worried about test grades...she's never even taken a test before?! She does math in her head...I know this is not "allowed" in school. She does it for FUN. Sometimes she tries to do problems that are more complicated than what she knows how to do and this is not something I'm trained to deal with. Fruit Loops and flashcards are more my speed.

You do not know us and are not qualified to speak on DD's social skills, behavior or our "standards". Even her current K teacher has commented positively on her social skills. And she has never had a behavior problem in the past.

Well I am glad you are not worried about grade or scores. And as far as not being "allowed" I am confused. My DD loves to regroup in her head but has been shown how to do it on paper. If you DD is working on adding things like 26+18 write it out and show her how the numbers fit together. Basically show her how you learned. She will be fine, no teacher will scold her if her style is a bit different.

So the K teacher thinks she is doing great socially but you are being sent home notes about bad behavior? So confused.

As far as the gem comment you never told me where or when it is ever social acceptable for someone to say they are bored. Or do you agree in the real world it is rude and frowned upon?

-Becca-

 

[Ellester]

So the K teacher thinks she is doing great socially but you are being sent home notes about bad behavior? So confused.

As far as the gem comment you never told me where or when it is ever social acceptable for someone to say they are bored. Or do you agree in the real world it is rude and frowned upon?

-Becca-

Oh, for Pete's sake, it was ONE note sent home after more than three years in a school setting with no previous problems.

In the real world, if you are bored in a social setting you can generally do something about it. You can leave, interact with others, pull out your grocery list, something. Plus, you are usually not in the same setting five days a week for 180 days a year being bored day after day.

I totally agree that it is the teacher's job to do his or her best to make sure the love of learning is not totally driven out of this child even before she enters the first grade.

To the OP - I empathize with you. I hope you are able to work out a solution that benefits your daughter without too much hassle.

 

[pooh4evr]

Well I have one in K this yr too we also go to a yr round school, Dd is reading, can do math, knows the first 10 presidents... bla bla bla, --they spent the first week and a half on colors (each day was a different one fabulous) now we are working on letters and 3d shapes- much better - I would also like her to be doing more but I know she is learning much more than academics at this point and she will be OK. My older DD is in the district giftet program (which has been a bit of a joke too-it seems all they do is write plays) she can read anything picks up on stuff instantly.. BUT the street smarts are a little lagging (the absent minded professor) so I know while academically advance she NEEDS the social skills of her peer group - I would also suggest looking over the curriculum (I can't spell today) and seeing if you can volunteer at all, observe and talk to other parents of K in your school to see if they feel the same way about their classes-- did you say there are many classes but all are 12 or less kids? we have 7 K classes with 20- 22 in each. Really with such a low # of students the teacher should be able to challenge you daughter with some individual work.

 

[tigger813]

Are there any assistants in your DDs class. All the K's around here have at least one TA in the class. Students are pulled for both enrichment and extra support.

I'm shocked at what K teachers are expected to teach children these days. I was a teacher until last year. NCLB is HORRIBLE!!!!! I became disenchanted with teaching over the last several years at the amount of work kids are supposed to be able to do and the amount of work for the teacher. Our state testing is atrocious. When a 3rd grader with learning difficulties spent 5 hours in the library doing a writing assessment last year I just wanted to cry. There is no consideration for kids with special needs anymore. They recently raised the score that needs to be earned for passing. They are setting these kids up for failure. Some kids don't test well. All the pressure that is put on these children to do well makes me sick. I worked with a lower level math group my last year of teaching. I had some kids make great strides and imprive greatly and then be heartbroken when they received scores of "warning" or "needs improvement".

Sorry I didn't mean to go OT but I see where everyone is coming from in terms of work for both the kids and the teachers.

DD2 will be almost 6 when she starts kindergarten in 2 years. She knows all of her letters and sounds and can already read some words. I will work closely with her teacher and the school to make sure she isn't bored.

I've seen both sides of the story so I empathize with all of you.

 

[Russian-in-Kansas]

May I give you a bit of a different perspective that would hopefully make you feel better?
I did my schooling in the Soviet Union, it was intense. Although first grade started when we were 7, we did progress quickly through algebra, geometry, grammar, syntax, started learning our 2nd language, playing instruments, etc...by 5th grade we were doing biology, chemistry and starting on physics, memorizing formulas every night, had tests the fear of which I still have as we would get yelled at if we didn't do well on. It never ceased to be challenging and often times very stressful. Oh and we went to school on Saturdays.
I am absolutely grateful for the stellar education that I had received and being unfamiliar with how the American system worked I looked forward to my children starting school here and learning the same kind of stuff that I did. Was I disappointed when my oldest started K and came home with coloring pages and some simple addition facts...
It took me some time, a year to stop being disappointed and look at the picture differently. These American kids who do color and play seem so much happier than we who never had the time in school to do so were. My kids are not memorization machines and I am so happy for them. The school here teaches other seriously vitally important things that are necessary for children's development, to have them be healthy and well-rounded adults. And truthfully they are only 5 in kindergarten. 5.....It makes me a little wistful of that age. There is still so much mystery of the world around you, of society and its structure. Everything is still pretty new. Addition and multiplication pale in comparison to bugs and dinosaurs, to stories about far away places, learning what real friendship is...There is just so much more that is relevant to a 5 year old that the education system can provide other than challenging them with numbers.
I've never stopped wanting for my kids to go beyond the curriculum and learn more advanced things. My kids are not gifted or anything so I can't give you that perspective, but I still like to be involved with their education. So this is what we do at home after school: Play games that have educational value (chess, scrabble, backgammon). They are a lot of fun, my kids love them and they do get to improve vocabulary, logic skills, counting, etc, without even realizing it. They help me do the bills, we read lots of books. I have my old science encyclopedia and we do 'experiments' from it often. We made paper from lettuce and a battery from lemons and nails recently. It was really cool. I speak in Russian to them, their dad speaks in Spanish, so they have their languages in a fun and natural way. We do a little formal Russian curriculum but I do my best to try to turn it into fun and not a chore, after all they are only 6 and 7 years old and will have plenty of time in school to be saddled with work. They still need to have fun.
That is my view---let your daughter experience kindergarten for what it is--a great place for a 5 year old. Make it a positive place to look forward to going. Ask her teacher if she could help other kids in the class if she is that bored. And perhaps tell her that repetition is the mother of all learning, and she is lucky to go over the material she knows, it is just going to stick that much better for her. And supplement with whatever you wish at home, not forgetting that however advanced she is, she is after all a relatively new person in this world and should explore, create and play. IMHO

 

[pooh4evr]

Russian in Kansa that is a beautiful post Thank You for putting things in perspective for me!

 

[dreamer17555]

Russian in Kanas that is amazingly beautiful post.

-Becca-

 

[kellyg403]

Russian in Kanas that is amazingly beautiful post.

-Becca-

I couldn't agree more!

Kelly

 

[Russian-in-Kansas]

You guys make me blush. Thank you for understanding what I was trying to say.

 

[Ellester]

wrong thread

 

[mamaLori05]

As a former teacher and still currently a state licensed one taking time off to be a SAHM, even doing some teaching in K, your dd's class setting does not seem quite right. First of all, classes of under 20 are unheard of around here for public schools....man I wish!!! Even private schools don't have classes that small. With that aside, yes they should be doing some coloring, but definatly not all day long. I can see why your dd is bored!!! She should be doing math GAMES with the numbers they are learning, learning letters and sounds with GAMES and activities. Time in housekeeping, art, large motor, science and reading centers. Kindergarten SHOULD be FUN, even if they are reviewing. Really, if the teacher does it right, the children won't even know they are reviewing. They just think it's a fun game or activity. I have NEVER heard of Kindergarteners being bored.....let alone the first few weeks of school. 90% or higher of the children around here have had preschool before entering K, and most of those kids do know how to write some words (MOM, DAD, their name, ect.) and I'd say a large chunk of those kids left off 4K with learning beginning phonics and learning how to read. A good teacher will be able to do the reviewing daily for those who need it, yet challenge the kids that need it as well.
As for your dd's first misbehaving letter...I would take that as a sign that something is not right in her class. If she has never had a problem before, and is now telling you she is bored to death and getting into trouble, something needs to be done. That is not how Kindergarten should be. I'm not sure if your state has school choice, but up here we do and as long as there is room in that child's grade you are allowed to go to whatever school you like...no added fee's or costs as long as it's public, and as long as you provide transportation. I would check into that, and check into your other area schools to see if they are any different.
Based on what you have described, I don't blame you one bit on getting involved. I would be too, however that teacher would not last one minute in a school around here!!! Sounds like you are doing everything right. Teachers love parents who are involved in their child's education, and they should be!!!

 

[tmarquez]

Well yesterday DD came home with a note that was given to her by one of her little friends in her class. Not that this is on topic...but...it was a letter written by a mom to her son who is obviously incarcerated. It was full of words that the Dis won't allow. I don't know if the kid got it from home or found it on the ground...plus he doesn't read so he didn't know what it really was.

So this morning I walked DD to class so I could explain what happened and give the note to the teacher so that she could return it to the family without involving the kids.

I was able to talk to the teacher about DD and cancelled our meeting on Tuesday. I told her about DD's change in behavior and how it concerns me. The teacher said that they (k - 3rd grade) are just now starting a test called Dibels and until all the classes were done they were not moving any kids around. They are also doing vision and hearing screening. The way it sounds is that they have 2 people that administer all the tests to each kid.

She said that what would probably happen is that there would be a separate reading group formed for the K readers. She said that DD would be doing math with the 1st grade class but not until the 1st grade classes are done with all their testing.

She knows DD is bored and is trying to come up with things for her to do (like being the class helper, having her do journals). She also feels like the Odyesy of the Mind will be really good for her since she will be in a group setting with older kids. She describes her as "precosious" (which I had to look up to see what she was saying , thanks dictionary.com ) and it seems to be the right word.

I know that DD built up going to "big kid" school in her mind alot. It's all the 5yo's in pre-k (and the older kids they were with) talked about for months and I think that is a HUGE part of her dissapointment. K is not what it was talked up to be. I think she thought it would be like high school. DD's "home" friends are all older than her...and she wants to be like them, have homework like them, do the same work as they do, etc.

I feel a little better after talking to the teacher, but I still feel like I need to constantly follow up. Thank you all for the advice and suggestions.

 

[nessz79]

DS just started K a week and half ago and I'm not too sure what to think yet, either.

DS doesn't seem to be bored, but I'm not exactly sure what they're learning yet. He's learning some basic things like only writing capital letters at the first letter of a name and using lower case for rest (e.g.- John instead of JOHN).

A newsletter said they would be learning Spalding Phonics soon. Not sure what that is as I'm a high school teacher and not familiar with Elementary Ed. Will have to google it I guess.

Anyway, seems to be a lot of diagnostic assessment in the beginning which is fine. I totally understand why Kindergarten teachers would need to do a lot of diagnostic assessment in the beginning- they need to know who knows what before they dive into things.

Also, the beginning seems to be a lot of learning routines, etc. My DS is still a bit anxious about school so I'm glad that his teacher is getting all those things established so he'll know what to expect day to day.