disabilities assistance Abuse

[ellataylor]

Just sayin, I’ve seen plenty of “das” families waiting in long lines for another ride while awaiting a das return time, waiting in long food lines, waiting over an hour for shows, etc. So they’re essentially treating the program like a FP program snd they obviously have the ability to wait in line.

These are the kind of posts that put me off using a DAS for fear of judgement. Clearly no understanding of different needs, different disabilities and how they are affected by differing environments. Plus a person who spends time on their vacation focusing on other people’s line habits.

 

[ZellyB]

The problem is that there will always be two camps. One is the people who legitimately need DAS. They use the system and it’s advantages to make their vacations work for them. Because many people have invisible disabilities, they take the notion of “looking like you’re cheating” very personally. Which is understandable. Because they need these accommodations, talking about the abuses within the system is always going to be hard. In order to stop the abuse, Disney would need to take away the very advantages people need and when life is already a struggle, the thought of that can be very disheartening.

Then there there is the other camp. The people who abuse the system for the advantages it can get you. If you think what amounts to an extra fast pass using the current system wasn’t going to tempt some people to cheat, I think that’s very naive. I don’t think the abuse was huge. But it absolutely happened. Once it becomes the only way to pre-book attractions, and you can do it 30 days out? That’s a major advantage. We are talking about people who used to be up at all hours to get their kid the right fast pass. People who used to hire disabled people to give them access to faster lines. The same people who made Disney redo the previous GAC system due to their rampant abuse. The reason it is encouraged not to talk about how to get a DAS on here. (They’re probably the same people who let their kid pee in line… )

The thing is, I think it’s very possible to both support DAS and its accommodations, and still acknowledge that there are a lot of people who just suck who will absolutely misuse the system to their advantage. Once the changes come in, I think those numbers will increase dramatically, to the disadvantage of everyone.

I get that this is very personal to a lot of people (myself included). I also think it should be okay to discuss the fact that people misuse the system without it being seen as an attack on those who use it properly.

I don't really disagree with what you are saying here, and I think most here would agree that there are people who abuse the system. Most of the time when people get upset with posts about abuse is when people claim to be able to tell there is abuse by looking at other people and making judgments. Seeing "das families" in some line now makes them an expert on the fact that those individuals are clearly cheating. This idea that anyone can just look at someone and determine what is or isn't legitimate use is ridiculous and just because we all acknowledge that some abuse occurs doesn't mean we accept that kind of superficial and absurd judgment.

I've never used a DAS. Hoping I won't need to in future. I started following this forum more because I've had to start using a scooter and it's very helpful for that. But having overheard someone in the parks making one of those judgments about me just because I had a scooter was hurtful, ignorant and upsetting. I realize I shouldn't have let it upset me, but I did regardless. And, I wasn't even using DAS on that trip. I waited in standby lines like everybody else. So perhaps if people would refrain from claiming they can tell by looking at someone or by how many people are in the FP line or whatever strange justification they use to "prove" abuse, those of us who have been or fear being judged wouldn't be defensive.

 

[olwyngdh]

I don't really disagree with what you are saying here, and I think most here would agree that there are people who abuse the system. Most of the time when people get upset with posts about abuse is when people claim to be able to tell there is abuse by looking at other people and making judgments. Seeing "das families" in some line now makes them an expert on the fact that those individuals are clearly cheating. This idea that anyone can just look at someone and determine what is or isn't legitimate use is ridiculous and just because we all acknowledge that some abuse occurs doesn't mean we accept that kind of superficial and absurd judgment.

I've never used a DAS. Hoping I won't need to in future. I started following this forum more because I've had to start using a scooter and it's very helpful for that. But having overheard someone in the parks making one of those judgments about me just because I had a scooter was hurtful, ignorant and upsetting. I realize I shouldn't have let it upset me, but I did regardless. And, I wasn't even using DAS on that trip. I waited in standby lines like everybody else. So perhaps if people would refrain from claiming they can tell by looking at someone or by how many people are in the FP line or whatever strange justification they use to "prove" abuse, those of us who have been or fear being judged wouldn't be defensive.

I used a DAS for the first time on my last trip. I had never thought about being eligible because I use a scooter until a white shirted castmember came up to me in line, gave me a return time, and sent me to Guest Services to get one because she didn't think I should have to fumble under my clothes in front of people to deal with my medical implant and attachments. It made things so much easier not having to watch who was around and get my husband to try to block line of site so I didn't traumatize some kid or some kid's mother. Now I am reconsidering applying for one for our next trip because I am going to be so obviously cheating the system by using one since I already use a scooter. I have had enough abuse from other Disney guests over that-including physical at one point-that I don't know that I can take the additional stress of the further abuse I am going to get from people like some of the posters on the various threads. I don't know if they understand how hurtful their words are or if they even care.

 

[SirDuff]

Also, for those with fears about people potentially "gaming" the system, let's stop for a moment, and consider this:

Anyone who *geniunely* needs that DAS won't be running the standard queue if they have a DAS for that attraction, ever. The reason is simple - if you have a DAS for that ride or attraction, there's a reason you cannot utilize that queue. That's all the DAS is for - to help the Guest wait *outside* the standard queue environment. It's a virtual queue, a way to wait your turn like everyone else, just outside the ride or attraction queue.

Anyone who *does* pull that kind of nonsense (get a DAS return time, then line up to ride in the regular queue, and then use the DAS return time) should not be surprised if they are flagged in the system, and/or find out that the DAS has been cancelled by the use the standard queue when they tapped in with their Magic Band.

I rather think that that was BigTrip's point. Though I don't really see how it can be tracked since not everyone uses a magic band.

 

[ZJ5/9D47]

Our doctor doesnt write the note, the nurse or the social worker does on the doctor's behalf. Now days it's pretty easy to get a doctor note but yes it would stop most of the fakers. Our note was so generic .. I think it said our sons name can not stand in a line que or be exposed to heat for lengthy amounts due to a permanent disability.

That is what six flags asks for, if it says the disability they will hand it back and wont take it. Then they gave me that day with a temporary das pass so I could get it fixed. Yes I realize that most people go for more than one day... the simple fact of having the note is a deterrent for some.

Imagine down the road your son has not had health insurance for several years because getting a job with benefits is tough in this economy and extra tough when disabled. It can take a very long time to get established with a new doctor and get to the point they feel comfortable providing a note for a disability pass. With a high-deductible plan, this process could cost thousands of dollars...all just to be able to access an already expensive vacation.

Now imagine you are diagnosed suddenly with terminal cancer and you want one last Disney trip with your family but your son can’t go because of the time and hurdles needed to get a doctor’s note. It’s fine though because some guests were prevented from lying and getting a DAS pass when they didn’t need it, right?

I don’t see myself going to Six Flags ever because there are no stated exceptions to the requirement to provide a doctor’s note and the pass is automatically required for me since the regular queues aren’t wheelchair-accessible. I don’t live near one of their parks and the third-party company used puts expiration dates on how long the notes are valid. I’m not too upset though because if that is their policy, I’m guessing their ride operations are just as terrible and I’m not interested in risking my health and safety that way.

 

[OurBigTrip]

Bottom line, Disney is going to have to do something with the new system, or there is going to be rampant abuse from the non-disabled who will want those two freebie attractions each day and Genie+ benefits without paying for Genie+ as well as first time DAS users who are on the cusp now, meaning they are able to get by with FP+ but won't be willing to pay for Genie+, so they'll get a DAS instead.

Disney may well have a plan for cutting back on the abuse, either by asking more questions about why it's needed and thus limiting the attractions it can be used on for each guest (along the lines of those who have stated here that sometimes it's not the wait time in the line but rather the type of line, noise, crowded switchbacks, etc.) or by doing what Sue mentioned earlier about tracking who is on the DAS with the DAS holder (never the same group twice over a period of time, etc.). No idea what they have in mind, but by going from the DAS being a tool for equal access to a tool for preferred access, they're incentivizing the very abuse that they claimed they were trying to avoid when they won their lawsuit last year.

 

[MS_Warrior]

Bottom line, Disney is going to have to do something with the new system, or there is going to be rampant abuse from the non-disabled who will want those two freebie attractions each day and Genie+ benefits without paying for Genie+ as well as first time DAS users who are on the cusp now, meaning they are able to get by with FP+ but won't be willing to pay for Genie+, so they'll get a DAS instead.

Disney may well have a plan for cutting back on the abuse, either by asking more questions about why it's needed and thus limiting the attractions it can be used on for each guest (along the lines of those who have stated here that sometimes it's not the wait time in the line but rather the type of line, noise, crowded switchbacks, etc.) or by doing what Sue mentioned earlier about tracking who is on the DAS with the DAS holder (never the same group twice over a period of time, etc.). No idea what they have in mind, but by going from the DAS being a tool for equal access to a tool for preferred access, they're incentivizing the very abuse that they claimed they were trying to avoid when they won their lawsuit last year.

My understanding on the two you sign up for, is you are on the waitlist. With the DAS, you still wait the standby time. It’s not a fast pass. I’ve not used the DAS, but I use a wheelchair, and on the rides that have lines that aren’t accessible, I get a return time equal to the standby wait time. It just allows me to wait in a virtual queue instead of standing in line. I believe the DAS is the same.

 

[magicalfoursome]

One thing that would be interesting to see would be how many times, if ever, does a DAS user get a return time for a long wait ride, say SDMT, then immediately go into the same standby queue, wait the one to two hours to ride, then immediately redeem their return time to ride again.

I used a DAS pass for the first time in 2019. I would never even think of doing this as the reason I get the pass is because standing in line poses certain risks and obstacles for me. Those who legitimately need DAS do not use it to ride twice.

These are the kind of posts that put me off using a DAS for fear of judgement. Clearly no understanding of different needs, different disabilities and how they are affected by differing environments. Plus a person who spends time on their vacation focusing on other people’s line habits.

I used a DAS pass for the first time in 2019. I had been diagnosed a few months earlier and avoiding crowded queues was important for my condition. I never felt judged by anyone and frankly I wouldn’t care. I don’t care what people think. I care about my health and safety. I never even knew about DAS in the past because my family and I never needed it. If you need it, get it.

 

[OurBigTrip]

My understanding on the two you sign up for, is you are on the waitlist. With the DAS, you still wait the standby time. It’s not a fast pass. I’ve not used the DAS, but I use a wheelchair, and on the rides that have lines that aren’t accessible, I get a return time equal to the standby wait time. It just allows me to wait in a virtual queue instead of standing in line. I believe the DAS is the same.

Not sure what you mean about the waitlist for the two DAS freebies…my understanding is that if the preferred attraction is available, you have a one hour window, and you’ll enter through the Lightning Lane at that point.

And while the DAS isn’t exactly like a FP, it works pretty much the same way…you reserve a time to enter the LL, then go do something else while you wait.

 

[Sandisw]

One thing that would be interesting to see would be how many times, if ever, does a DAS user get a return time for a long wait ride, say SDMT, then immediately go into the same standby queue, wait the one to two hours to ride, then immediately redeem their return time to ride again.

Those who need DAS are more likely to get the return time and before they can ride, something happens and they need to leave the park.

Plenty of times this is my reality.

 

[lanejudy]

Not sure what you mean about the waitlist for the two DAS freebies…my understanding is that if the preferred attraction is available, you have a one hour window, and you’ll enter through the Lightning Lane at that point

My understanding of Genie+ is you’ll get the “next available” ride time — presumably out of a bucket of reserved slots. Like FP+, you may find something to ride just 10 minutes out regardless of the standby time. DAS is standby-10. So say 7DMT has a 60 minute standby. Genie+ may get a time for 15 minutes from now, but the DAS user has to wait 50 minutes.

 

[Evita_W]

Once Genie+ and the new DAS system are up and running I really don't know how anyone could tell the difference, in your case, of someone in the lightening lane with a genie return time vs. a DAS return time. Plus the return time is done via the app rather than going to the CM at the kiosk or attraction. Your situation also seems well suited to using the video chat procedure to inquire about whether a DAS can help you. If your trip is soon then perhaps write out the reasons you have trouble accessing the attractions and let the CM read it (so you don't have to discuss it out loud as much at Guest Services).

Now here is an interesting thought though, will there be more animosity towards the Lightening Lanes since now it is a paid system? I mean will those who feel they can't afford it be even more upset with those that do use it? And if so, will that carry over to those who use a DAS?

 

[Ember]

My understanding of Genie+ is you’ll get the “next available” ride time — presumably out of a bucket of reserved slots. Like FP+, you may find something to ride just 10 minutes out regardless of the standby time. DAS is standby-10. So say 7DMT has a 60 minute standby. Genie+ may get a time for 15 minutes from now, but the DAS user has to wait 50 minutes.

How Genie+ will work is all just speculation at this point. For very popular attractions, I imagine the “bucket” of slots available might get taken first thing, when the system goes live at 7am each morning. Much like the original fast passes used to. (I still remember racing to Cars Land in California Adventure at rope drop, to get a fast pass for Radiator Springs, and getting a return time of 8pm. They’d be gone completely within 15 minutes of park opening, with many people still waiting in the line to get one…) The other option was to wait in line for hours and hours. In cases like this, being able to get a return time at any point in the day would have been quite the advantage. Show up at noon, long after the fast passes have all been allocated, get a return time five hours later… sure it’s a long wait to ride, but you’re off doing other things the entire day, and you’ve gotten that “fast pass” for free rather than paid $15 for it. (Or $20 at Disneyland

I am absolutely not okay with calling people out. I would never presume to have enough information to even look sideways at someone, and it’s none of my darn business! (But I do hope Disney would, if they could prove abuse.) And I wouldn’t take this away, even with the people who abuse the system. It provides access to people who need it in probably the most fair way possible. But I also think people claiming there isn’t a considerable advantage to be gained by liars and cheats, are kidding themselves.

Last note: To the poster who was talking about the cost of a doctors note… This is one of those things you forget when you aren’t American and have free and easy access. That you guys pay so much for your healthcare. Every time I am re-reminded it’s a bit of a shock.

 

[Starwind]

Last note: To the poster who was talking about the cost of a doctors note… This is one of those things you forget when you aren’t American and have free and easy access. That you guys pay so much for your healthcare. Every time I am re-reminded it’s a bit of a shock.

Even here in Ontario with a public healthcare system, such a doctors note may not be provided for free ... my family physician would charge $150 for it as such a note/letter (required by a third party) is not covered by OHIP (or whatever the government plan is actually called these days), and I'm not sure if that fee also covers the doctor visit to get the note or if there is an additional fee for that.

 

[MS_Warrior]

Not sure what you mean about the waitlist for the two DAS freebies…my understanding is that if the preferred attraction is available, you have a one hour window, and you’ll enter through the Lightning Lane at that point.

And while the DAS isn’t exactly like a FP, it works pretty much the same way…you reserve a time to enter the LL, then go do something else while you wait.

They pick the times for the return on the first two. My understanding is you get what’s assigned for those.

I do understand what you’re saying about the return time. However, with FP, you’re able to book more than one at a time. Oftentimes, you can get a FP during a peak time and not wait the 2 hours, etc. With DAS, the person still has to wait the 2 hours.

You are correct that they could ride something else while they wait. However, for us, when we’ve been given return times for my WC, we’ve used that time to rest. We don’t have the energy to run to another area to ride.

However, I do understand that scammers will always take advantage. I hope Disney keeps that in mind when doing the DAS, but I would hate to see them get strict enough to prevent those who need it from asking for it.

Since I’ve become disabled, it’s amazing to me what I’ve learned from those who have other types of disabilities.

 

[MS_Warrior]

Those who need DAS are more likely to get the return time and before they can ride, something happens and they need to leave the park.

Plenty of times this is my reality.

Unfortunately! I remember the days we did parks from rope drop to goodnight kiss… Now, we’re never there early and I can’t remember the last time I stayed long enough to see fireworks.

 

[SueM in MN]

The ONLY time I have ever seen this happen was with the two teenaged children of a disabled adult. They got a return time with their mom, and then they got in line right behind us, sans their mother, then went again with her. I don't really count this as the same thing. And, yes, I'm sure the DAS was for their mom.

true

My understanding of Genie+ is you’ll get the “next available” ride time — presumably out of a bucket of reserved slots. Like FP+, you may find something to ride just 10 minutes out regardless of the standby time. DAS is standby-10. So say 7DMT has a 60 minute standby. Genie+ may get a time for 15 minutes from now, but the DAS user has to wait 50 minutes.

Agree. The postings that say DAS Users will get Genie+ for free are not correct according to what Disney has posted.
GENIE+ is “next available time” and the information says you can choose Lightning Lane selections for multiple parks.
DAS is “comparable to the current wait time. The information mentions only the park you are currently in.
These are screenshots From the Disney website announcements. This first part (highlighted in green) is about Genie+ Lightning Lane selections. WDW resort guests can make their first Lightning Lane selection at 7am on the day of their visit. Once they have used that selection, they can make another.
The second part (highlighted in blue) is the Individual Attraction Selections - these are immediate access using the Lightning Lane, paid per attraction. The attractions and the price will vary. Busier days = higher cost. Busier attraction = higher cost.
These would still be available thru Standby according to the Disney website video images.
The third part is Virtual Queues - this sounds the same as the current ‘Boarding Groups’.
The isn’t much information other than this.

 

[SueM in MN]

My understanding of Genie+ is you’ll get the “next available” ride time — presumably out of a bucket of reserved slots. Like FP+, you may find something to ride just 10 minutes out regardless of the standby time. DAS is standby-10. So say 7DMT has a 60 minute standby. Genie+ may get a time for 15 minutes from now, but the DAS user has to wait 50 minutes.

Genie+ = “next available time”
DAS = “comparable to the current wait”

Guests who register for DAS virtually ahead of time have the opportunity to select up to 2 experiences per day. In several places on the Disney website, it says;the can choose from ‘select attractions’ and ‘if the experience is available’.
It does NOT say what the ‘select’ attractions/experiences will be, so is not a given that the high demand attractions will be part of the selections.
There is a one hour return window; it’s not clear if guests will be able to choose a time or just be given a time - if it works out, great; if not, too bad.


This second screenshot from the Disney website explains DAS Return Times, which are comparable to the current queue wait time. The DAS Return Time is valid until the park (or attraction) closes. So, if the attraction has a long wait, the DAS Return Time will be that long into the futur. My own family has had to leave the park before our DAS Return Time came, either my daughter had a seizure or just was having a bad day.

At the end of the screenshot, Disney suggests guests using DAS should also use the free Genie features, plus consider purchasing the extra cost features.

 

[Selket]

Now here is an interesting thought though, will there be more animosity towards the Lightening Lanes since now it is a paid system? I mean will those who feel they can't afford it be even more upset with those that do use it? And if so, will that carry over to those who use a DAS?

Interesting thought ... a Disney vacation is more expensive now than ever it feels like. Probably if I spent oodles to go and this was the only thing between me and a good vacation (paying for Genie+) I'd fork it over if there's any way I could squeeze some more nickels out of the purse. I'm really on the fence about Genie+ but one thing I don't like its the paid aspect.

 

[shawthorne44]

To those that need a DAS and are considering not getting one for fear of judgement:
That is on them. Feel sorry for those people that have so little going good in their lives.

Those that get DAS as a way to scam the system (I don't think anyone here), they are truly pathetic. I am referring to those people personally known by someone else to be scamming. It is like disability in general. There are people that try to get on disability for the free money.