Direct vs Resale - Length of contract considerations

[jagron11]

Thinking seriously about purchasing DVC for our family. Read a lot here, and the consensus seems to be purchase where you want to stay, and purchase resale. I get the $/pt differences of resale vs direct, so that is VERY compelling. However, I think where we'd want to stay is BCV. However, if I'm not mistaken those contracts end in about 25 years, or half the length of the upcoming Copper Creek Villa contracts. At some point should the length of the contract come into consideration? Cost per point on a life of contract basis would move up significantly then, given the price I'm seeing is about $105/pt for BCV. Thanks in advance.

 

[aoconnor]

A simple way to compare the price of contracts is to divide the price per point by years remaining and add maintenance fees. In your example:

CCV - $176 / 50 Years = $3.52 + $7.33 MF = $10.85

BCV - $105 / 25 Years = $4.20 + $6.27 MF = $10.47

Beach Club still comes out a little cheaper, but Beach Club and Boardwalk tend to be the "most expensive" (relative to years remaining) resale resorts. Take a BLT contract as a comparison...

BLT- $110 / 43 Years = $2.56 +$5.62 MF = $8.18

 

[_auroraborealis_]

But, that said: If you buy CCV, you will not have home resort advantage at BCV, and may very well find it difficult to book.

 

[jagron11]

Thank for those quick calcs. Much easier to see that way, and to see how much the maintenance fees impact the comparison. I guess one other thing is the upfront cash outlay. Could we actually have more "fun" in the near future, by purchasing more BCV points to use over the next 25 years, as opposed to points that have a longer shelf life.

 

[crisi]

But, that said: If you buy CCV, you will not have home resort advantage at BCV, and may very well find it difficult to book.

That's the gamble.

BCV is a small and popular resort. People buying contracts there over the past few years are paying a resale premium - the shorter years plus its more expensive than most other resales. They aren't doing that so they can stay at other resorts. BCV owners (BWV owners as well) tend to be pretty loyal to their home resorts and book during the home resort window. Which means at seven months, a lot of owners who want to try BCV are trying to get the few rooms left. At certain times of the year, it can be really tough. And at most times of the year, it fills up fast once that window opens.

So the question becomes "do you want to stay at BCV enough to pay for fewer years." If you really want to stay at BCV for the majority of trips, you should buy there. If you want to be staying at Disney 30 years from now (I'll be too old to go then - age can be a factor here), and don't mind it if BCV isn't available for every - or even most - trips, buy something with a longer life. If you want a few more years than BCV will provide, and you want the most bang for your buck, buy SSR.

 

[ziravan]

I own at BCV and Poly. I'll have BCV trips until I'm 73 and if I'm still a Disneyophile then, I can hang out at Poly until I'm 98.

Buy where you want to stay. DVC is too expensive of a luxury product to look over longingly at the booked up BCV during F&W. Every year. For decades.

If you love to drive a Porsche, buying a Mustang isn't a better deal because it's cheaper.

 

[mustinjourney]

bottom line -- if you want BCV during the fall F&W trips, you pretty much have to buy there.

Also -- using upfront price divided by remaining years provides a quick and dirty comparison for costs purposes, but as you alluded to, it completely ignores the time value of money.

200 points at $100 a point for BCV is $20000.

200 points at $175 a point for CCV is $35000.

That's $15000 extra you are paying in today's dollars for the extra 25 years of trips on the back end.

 

[LAX]

I own at BCV and Poly. I'll have BCV trips until I'm 73 and if I'm still a Disneyophile then, I can hang out at Poly until I'm 98.

Buy where you want to stay. DVC is too expensive of a luxury product to look over longingly at the booked up BCV during F&W. Every year. For decades.

If you love to drive a Porsche, buying a Mustang isn't a better deal because it's cheaper.

Playing devil's advocate here. It wouldn't be a bad deal if my purchase of a Mustang allows me to trade in for a week of Porsche every once in a while as long as I am cool with driving a Mustang most of the times! On a more serious note, it really depends on what OP is looking for. If one is looking to stay at BCV every year during Christmas time (or other hard to book times), then buying somewhere else wouldn't make sense even if it's cheaper.

LAX

 

[jagron11]

Thanks everybody. Good insights, and I think it was valuable considerations. Where you want to stay, premium acknowledged. Value of what you want now, for a shorter period of time, vs longer period of usage but potentially, settling. I don't know where what I'll be doing in 25 years, but I do know for the imminent future, with four kids (9 and u), who saw Stormalong on our recent trip, that's where they want to be. And as they grow, wife and I are foodies, so will likely want F&W, and wife just loved Flower and Garden. I think our decision is made. Now to start mining resale sites. Thanks again for all the great insights.

 

[ziravan]

Playing devil's advocate here. It wouldn't be a bad deal if my purchase of a Mustang allows me to trade in for a week of Porsche every once in a while as long as I am cool with driving a Mustang most of the times! On a more serious note, it really depends on what OP is looking for. If one is looking to stay at BCV every year during Christmas time (or other hard to book times), then buying somewhere else wouldn't make sense even if it's cheaper.

LAX

Except that the Porsche always has waitlist.

If you could consistently drive the Porsche then buying in with a Mustang in order to drive a Porsche is a great plan.

If.

But if the only way to routinely drive a Porsche is to buy a Porsche...

And remember. There'll be more people with Mustangs looking to drive a Porsche next year. And the next year. And the next...

DVC membership is growing in size every single day. They aren't currently making more DVC rooms at BCV.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

With the understanding that this was a snapshot of a point in time of 2014-2015, the BCV charts here are pretty compelling on why you'd want to own there even in low season: https://www.disboards.com/threads/p...-some-1-bedrooms-vgc-update-10-21-15.3419112/

Even then, you weren't switching during Fall Frenzy. But most of the year even 2 years ago, you were looking at waitlists on your 7 month switch for much of the year. With more Poly points out there now, more AUL points and now CCV, this is not going to be any easier -- AND since 2014, BCV studios have added the murphy bed! I believe if someone were to do this again, you'd find 7 month bookings at BCV are rare to get a full week clear in a studio or lock-off 2BR.

 

[Dean]

Thinking seriously about purchasing DVC for our family. Read a lot here, and the consensus seems to be purchase where you want to stay, and purchase resale. I get the $/pt differences of resale vs direct, so that is VERY compelling. However, I think where we'd want to stay is BCV. However, if I'm not mistaken those contracts end in about 25 years, or half the length of the upcoming Copper Creek Villa contracts. At some point should the length of the contract come into consideration? Cost per point on a life of contract basis would move up significantly then, given the price I'm seeing is about $105/pt for BCV. Thanks in advance.

The question I'd ask is why you think BCV is the best. Do you have any experience staying on property and sufficiently broad based to pull from? BCV is likely the worst comparison in this situation because it's higher pp than BWV by a significant amount and likely the worst $$$ value on property resale. I personally don't especially subscribe to the "buy where you want to stay" philosophy largely because almost new new buyers know what that really is and usually what they THINK they want leads them to spend a lot more dollars than they have to. I'd guess that less than 10-20% guess right up front. Certainly one can always buy and sell later but there is cost to going that route. A 200 point contract bought and sold will cost you roughly $3K that's gone out the door. Not the end of the world but nothing to sneeze at either. So I'd agree that one who knows they want BCV because of sufficient, direct and varied experiences probably should buy there even though the numbers are not favorable. IMO no one else should do so, esp because they think they'll like it best.

 

[crisi]

Just to further Dean's point about your assumptions....SAB is a very cool pool. But its a horrible pool once your kids get past the "sit in zero entry" stage and before they get to the "I don't need to keep an eye on them" stage if you are a parent who wants to watch your kids near water. The sight lines are horrible. Where its deep, its deep. The lazy river current is strong. The pool slide entrance cannot be seen from the spot they come out. So if the biggest driver is the kids want SAB - get a BC or YC room through CRO on cash and try it out - it does seem to have a limited period of ideal usability for kids.

And my experience with my kids is that once they reach the "I don't need to keep an eye on them" stage, they'd much rather have a waterpark day than SAB.

 

[KCar]

Just to further Dean's point about your assumptions....SAB is a very cool pool. But its a horrible pool once your kids get past the "sit in zero entry" stage and before they get to the "I don't need to keep an eye on them" stage if you are a parent who wants to watch your kids near water. The sight lines are horrible. Where its deep, its deep. The lazy river current is strong. The pool slide entrance cannot be seen from the spot they come out. So if the biggest driver is the kids want SAB - get a BC or YC room through CRO on cash and try it out - it does seem to have a limited period of ideal usability for kids.

And my experience with my kids is that once they reach the "I don't need to keep an eye on them" stage, they'd much rather have a waterpark day than SAB.

Access to the slide is OUTSIDE the pool area! Great for the older kids - not so much for the little ones if you like to keep an eye on them.

 

[jagron11]

Thanks for the comments. Some good additional insights on the cons of BCV. Albeit, knowing my family and our travel preferences, I feel pretty good about that. Although I will concede that BWV could be a good option as well. Some of the comments about age, and "growing out of SAB", actually lend themselves to the side of purchasing the shorter term contract, so that we know what we're getting for a more condensed period of time, as opposed to banking on the wants of my kids and my kids' kids in 50 years. So thanks for those reassuring comments. It is a $ premium I understand, but DVC in and of itself is a premium luxury product, as espoused on these boards over and over. As for the suggestion of "try it out first", that kind of defeats the purpose of the switch from staying at the hotels vs the DVC route. We have 4 kids, so that limits us on the accommodations we can reasonably stay in (while abiding the "fire code"). We stayed at AofA recently, and it wasn't our cup of tea. We've stayed at numerous other properties also at WDW and DL, both with and without children, unfortunately BCV isn't one of them. To try out BCV rental or BC/YC first, would be another $4-5K endeavor, and although sounds great, the whole point was to put that towards a DVC contract instead, as we have Aulani plans on the horizon as well. So at some point I need to take confidence in our past travel/visit experiences, coupled with visits to the BC property (albeit without access to the pool or rooms) to determine that it would be a good option for our family. With that said, I think I should look closer at BWV as well. So any remarks on that are appreciated.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Of the properties that you've stayed at which have been Deluxe?

 

[KCar]

My drawback with BWV is the lack of quick service for morning coffee/breakfast. the closest is the bakery on boardwalk or Belle Vue across the lobby at the INN. The pool area is fenced, sightlines awesome and has a menu for lunch. Clown pool slide is fast and slightly creepy looking at night. We've stayed at both and loved both - SAB being the only reason we don't stay at BCV (at this age). I think BCV has more to offer in terms of restaurants and quick service and BWV is priced to reflect that, which to many needs to be a consideration. We like to walk but a boat will take you between the two. Maybe a few videos would help?

 

[jagron11]

Of the properties that you've stayed at which have been Deluxe?

Grand Floridian, Contemporary, and Wilderness Lodge. (Dolphin, if that pseudo counts). In CA, we've stayed at Grand Californian and the Disneyland Hotel.

 

[crisi]

My drawback with BWV is the lack of quick service for morning coffee/breakfast. the closest is the bakery on boardwalk or Belle Vue across the lobby at the INN. The pool area is fenced, sightlines awesome and has a menu for lunch. Clown pool slide is fast and slightly creepy looking at night. We've stayed at both and loved both - SAB being the only reason we don't stay at BCV (at this age). I think BCV has more to offer in terms of restaurants and quick service and BWV is priced to reflect that, which to many needs to be a consideration. We like to walk but a boat will take you between the two. Maybe a few videos would help?

That's an issue with most DVC properties. Quick Service for BC Villas in is the main building - through the portcullis from the BCV rooms. Boulder Ridge also has its quick service in the main building - and you are walking outside to get it. VAKL has long walks to Mara, BLT its in the main building. Poly its in the main building. OKW its in the main building. SSR its in the main building. I can't think of a DVC resort off hand where the quickservice location is convienent to the Villas.

 

[Dean]

Thanks for the comments. Some good additional insights on the cons of BCV. Albeit, knowing my family and our travel preferences, I feel pretty good about that. Although I will concede that BWV could be a good option as well. Some of the comments about age, and "growing out of SAB", actually lend themselves to the side of purchasing the shorter term contract, so that we know what we're getting for a more condensed period of time, as opposed to banking on the wants of my kids and my kids' kids in 50 years. So thanks for those reassuring comments. It is a $ premium I understand, but DVC in and of itself is a premium luxury product, as espoused on these boards over and over. As for the suggestion of "try it out first", that kind of defeats the purpose of the switch from staying at the hotels vs the DVC route. We have 4 kids, so that limits us on the accommodations we can reasonably stay in (while abiding the "fire code"). We stayed at AofA recently, and it wasn't our cup of tea. We've stayed at numerous other properties also at WDW and DL, both with and without children, unfortunately BCV isn't one of them. To try out BCV rental or BC/YC first, would be another $4-5K endeavor, and although sounds great, the whole point was to put that towards a DVC contract instead, as we have Aulani plans on the horizon as well. So at some point I need to take confidence in our past travel/visit experiences, coupled with visits to the BC property (albeit without access to the pool or rooms) to determine that it would be a good option for our family. With that said, I think I should look closer at BWV as well. So any remarks on that are appreciated.

BCV will be your lowest value on a $$$ basis. Certainly DVC is a luxury item but that doesn't alleviate the need to make good decisions after the decision to buy is made. The shorter term shouldn't be a deterrent but one should at least consider the value of what they're getting. I would rent first, the difference isn't as much as you think because you'd pay dues on the points used and it's likely prices will fall or stay the same, not rise, in a year or 2. On 300 points the difference between renting and buying now is going to be roughly $2400 or a little less. If that causes you to make a better decision, it's well worth that. IMO it's NEVER reasonable to rush to buy to get that next trip on points and consider it a discount on the purchase.