Direct purchase becoming less attractive

[tx911]

You already have to have direct points (or at least, grandfathered points) to be eligible. So you've already paid DVC much more than you otherwise could have. There is no real good reason why they have to charge extra, other than to thumb their nose at us.

They could have made it free for direct members, $99 for resale-only members, and eliminated the lounge perk. It would have probably made them just as much money in that circumstance.

 

[SeanW]

It's not a perk if you have to pay for it. I would call it a membership package, and I think the total value is more than what you will spend otherwise. We would have to see what the discount on weekday tickets is as I think will make or break this for many people. The memory maker is otherwise $210, so that is a $111 savings and I think being able to buy an AP for potentially 50-75 points will likely be a nice option for those who can generally bank and a $1000+ savings right off the bat.

Outside of that, I think the case for direct is even better with the resale restrictions. I don't know if anyone has said this, but I have a feeling that the Crescent Lake resorts, when the deeds expire in 2042, will be reissued, and resale contracts will be unable to stay at them as they are technically a new property under a new association, so I would expect that list of resale restrictions to expand in 2042.

 

[Sandisw]

You already have to have direct points (or at least, grandfathered points) to be eligible. So you've already paid DVC much more than you otherwise could have. There is no real good reason why they have to charge extra, other than to thumb their nose at us.

Paying $99 upfront doesn’t change the fact that that those who do pay are getting way more in savings than that $99 to unlock it.

That’s why it’s a benefits package.

I think it’s the optics of how they structured it is giving some pause. but in reality, if someone was buying Memroy Maker for $185 or $210, they now pay $99.

At least for those owners, it is a new benefit that just saved them up to $111.

That’s why I don’t see this having an impact on people moving away from direct.

And, while no one should be buying direct because of membership extras, this program is offering owners some really good deals for $99 that we currently don’t have.

That’s why i think it will be seen by many as a positive, especially those new buyers.

 

[muppets3d]

They could have made it free for direct members, $99 for resale-only members, and eliminated the lounge perk. It would have probably made them just as much money in that circumstance.

Everything DVC does should be viewed through the lens of increasing sales, because otherwise why bother. I simply don't see how this buy-up program accomplishes that goal.

 

[muppets3d]

It's not a perk if you have to pay for it. I would call it a membership package, and I think the total value is more than what you will spend otherwise. We would have to see what the discount on weekday tickets is as I think will make or break this for many people. The memory maker is otherwise $210, so that is a $111 savings and I think being able to buy an AP for potentially 50-75 points will likely be a nice option for those who can generally bank and a $1000+ savings right off the bat.

Outside of that, I think the case for direct is even better with the resale restrictions. I don't know if anyone has said this, but I have a feeling that the Crescent Lake resorts, when the deeds expire in 2042, will be reissued, and resale contracts will be unable to stay at them as they are technically a new property under a new association, so I would expect that list of resale restrictions to expand in 2042.

2042 will certainly make resale restrictions a much bigger deal than they are today, but that's still almost 2 decades away.

 

[bdrex28]

2042 will certainly make resale restrictions a much bigger deal than they are today, but that's still almost 2 decades away.

And that's "IF" they decide to go that way...but even if they do then those of us who are resale have already saved so much it doesn't matter in twenty years

 

[Sandisw]

Everything DVC does should be viewed through the lens of increasing sales, because otherwise why bother. I simply don't see how this buy-up program accomplishes that goal.

Doesn’t the Sorcerer AP tip the scale for people? That’s not free…owners have to purchase it.

But, being DVC Y gives us the ability to purchase it.

It seems to me this is being marketed under the same premise, isn’t it ?

You buy the membership magic beyond program and get MM for free, 50% discount on OTU points, turn your points into an AP and receive the ability to purchase special DVC multiday tickets that are discounted.

That’s why, at least while the price is low enough to make owners want it, its not going to hurt sales.

It’s just one more thing direct owners have access to that resale owners do not

ETA: Wasn’t the TIW card pretty much the same concept? You had to pay a fee for the card to simply unlock larger discounts on food and drinks?

 

[New Mouse]

And that's "IF" they decide to go that way...but even if they do then those of us who are resale have already saved so much it doesn't matter in twenty years

There's a caution point that DVC execs may not be smart enough to understand. If they don't keep the resale price high enough, the direct product will crash because it's too expensive. People buy in now direct because they know they can get out without taking a bath.

 

[SeanW]

2042 will certainly make resale restrictions a much bigger deal than they are today, but that's still almost 2 decades away.

That's true, but for people like myself, who are in their 20s and 30s right now, it will become a bigger deal in the upcoming decades. Like someone said, that's if they decide to go down this path. Then again, looking at resale vs. direct, it cost us an additional $5,000 going direct vs. resale, which will easily be made up with dining & merch discounts in addition to using points to pay for AP's

 

[New Mouse]

Doesn’t the Sorcerer AP tip the scale for people? That’s not free…owners have to purchase it.

No, why would people want to buy extra points to pay for the AP at today's prices when it's cheaper to just pay cash?

That's similar to saying people are going to buy extra points with the intention of using them on cruises or exchanges

Most people don't buy into DVC planning to not use 80 to 95 points a year.

Its a nice bailout if you get stuck u expectedly with points, but beyond that they are hoping you just don't do math.

 

[Sandisw]

No, why would people want to buy extra points to pay for the AP at today's prices when it's cheaper to just pay cash?

That's similar to saying people are going to buy extra points with the intention of using them on cruises or exchanges

Most people don't buy into DVC planning to not use 80 to 95 points a year.

Its a nice bailout if you get stuck u expectedly with points, but beyond that they are hoping you just don't do math.

Sorry…I wasn’t clear. I am not talking about the trade aspect for the AP for the program.

I am talking about the fact that the Sorcerer Pass is not something we get free for being DVC Y .

It’s a product offered to us to buy that DVC ND owners can not.

One thing that tips the scale for some buyers in going direct is the ability to buy that pass.

This program may do the same thing…something else DVC Y owners can purchase that includes additional savings.

As I mentioned above, not sure how this is any different than the TIW card that DVC owners used to be able to buy…it did nothing more than unlock discounts on food and drinks…

That was basically a pay upfront in exchange for discounts you didn’t get without the card….and it was pretty popular.

It’s why I don’t see this program being seen by potential buyers as a huge negative to sway them away from going direct.

Matter of fact, for owners who don’t need the AP, it might be viewed as better, simply because it will offer savings on multi day tickets.

 

[muppets3d]

And that's "IF" they decide to go that way...but even if they do then those of us who are resale have already saved so much it doesn't matter in twenty years

You'll only ever save the delta between the resale price and the cost of an equivalent direct contract, at time of purchase. All additional costs are equal moving forward - namely annual dues. ie; you're paying the same amount of maintenance but getting less utility out of the points. And actual savings may be even less than that initial delta, as you're not eligible for the Sorcerer pass if an AP would be beneficial for you, or discounts for shopping or MNSSHP, etc. Everyone has to run the numbers for themselves and figure out what works best for them!

 

[AstroBlasters]

You already have to have direct points (or at least, grandfathered points) to be eligible. So you've already paid DVC much more than you otherwise could have. There is no real good reason why they have to charge extra, other than to thumb their nose at us.

This is what every executive is taught to do at business school. If the current ones didn’t do it then they would just be pushed out by others who were willing to do it.

It’s all about trying to find new ways to grow revenue for shareholders. And then every Oct 1st…. poof!…. the fiscal year ends and everyone starts over at 0 and has to find a way to do 10-20% more revenue that the previous year to hit incentive based targets.

 

[muppets3d]

This is what every executive is taught to do at business school. If the current ones didn’t do it then they would just be pushed out by others who were willing to do it.

It’s all about trying to find new ways to grow revenue for shareholders. And then every Oct 1st…. poof!…. the fiscal year ends and everyone starts over at 0 and has to find a way to do 10-20% more revenue that the previous year to hit incentive based targets.

Or be caught up in the layoffs...I got out of the rat race 10 years ago...good luck to those still in it.

 

[bdrex28]

You'll only ever save the delta between the resale price and the cost of an equivalent direct contract, at time of purchase. All additional costs are equal moving forward - namely annual dues. ie; you're paying the same amount of maintenance but getting less utility out of the points. And actual savings may be even less than that initial delta, as you're not eligible for the Sorcerer pass if an AP would be beneficial for you, or discounts for shopping or MNSSHP, etc. Everyone has to run the numbers for themselves and figure out what works best for them!

For us, resale ends up saving us. Add in my chase Disney card and other discounts and outside of not being able to book riviera which is fine with me and not hanging at lounges, I'm totally good.

 

[Bearval]

They could have made it free for direct members, $99 for resale-only members, and eliminated the lounge perk. It would have probably made them just as much money in that circumstance.

DVD is trying to further separate the difference between direct and resale so offering resale owners the ability to pay only $99 for this package kind of defeats that . DVD has to "pay" for any "perks" they offer that have a cost so the $99 for the package must be the negotiated price they agreed to pay.

 

[DonkeyHoTay]

Matter of fact, for owners who don’t need the AP, it might be viewed as better, simply because it will offer savings on multi day tickets.

To emphasize your point, the ticket discount for my friends/family who don't otherwise have passes makes it worth it to me along with the lounge priority access. With a broad scope of benefits, the $99 is worth it to more people. I do understand the concept of further separation between direct vs resale owners benefits, but this is a surprising way to do that - I would have expected it to be available to any and all DVC members especially because it costs DVC something to make several of these Membership Magic benefits available. Seems to me they should focus on other distinguishing factors to push more people to direct.

For me, the biggest direct advantage is the access to new resorts.

 

[Genie+]

Whether or not direct is attractive relies on perspective. Personally I’ve bought DVC from 2 perspectives due to the totally different goals each purchase was meant to achieve.

First purchase - I wanted entry into DVC near as cheap as possible. Just wanted to get into the booking system and near park home priority. At that point the only thing we knew we wanted out of DVC was a room. We knew every year we were staying onsite, confident that would continue over at least the next decade, and for that budget DVC could get us into nicer rooms/resorts. We settled on a smaller BWV resale contract.

Second purchase - The small outlay for BWV gave us more experience, which helped us decide if we wanted to go further with DVC or not. Now we knew for sure we wanted more points and another home priority. At this stage we were more confident DVC was a good fit. Increased our willingness to commit to higher buy-in of the longer contract resorts that also held better long term value. MK resorts resale are more expensive but there are reasons for that. Contract length, differences in experience of ownership, the dues, etc… Even speculative future salvage value is very strong.

1st purchase we were cautious not to over-commit to DVC.

2nd purchase we saw the best overall value for us was one of the longer contracts at Poly, VGF, BLT or CCV.

Initially direct didn’t even come in to play. Perks and restricted bookings were meaningless because we’d already decided not yet comfortable enough committing to the level necessary, and it was perfectly acceptable not having access either. The room and the cost… that’s all we bargained for. Perks and unstricted use was nice… for other people

Once we were in ballpark of direct, the differences between full membership and resale mattered. Ultimately direct was more attractive. We are even getting much better use than expected. It is paying for itself quicker than imagined and we still have 40 years left.

 

[DanCali]

Once we were in ballpark of direct, the differences between full membership and resale mattered. Ultimately direct was more attractive. We are even getting much better use than expected. It is paying for itself quicker than imagined and we still have 40 years left.

It's relatively easy to make the case for 150 direct points, especially when the "price is right" (in terms of a reasonable premium to resale prices, which is subjective). The 2023 direct sales deals on AKV and then VGF were great in that regard for those who took the plunge. I don't think we're there (yet) with PIT/BVB.

But once you have that full membership, and if the price is "not so right", I think it gets much harder to justify loading up on direct points (it's not like converting those points to cruises gives you a great value beyond the annual dues). Even more so if they continue down the that of resale restrictions, which end up destroying the resale value of what they sold you. Most people, when they know about the resale market, hate the idea of a capital loss, even if it's just "on paper".

 

[skier_pete]

Doesn’t the Sorcerer AP tip the scale for people? That’s not free…owners have to purchase it.

But, being DVC Y gives us the ability to purchase it.

As a comment to this - I think the Sorcerers AP is the one thing that SHOULD be considered to tip the scales to getting 150 points direct. Let's say you pay $70 a point extra for 150 points direct- Sure that's an extra $10500. But if you use an AP and stagger your trips to save money - we go every fall so one year go say first week of November then the next last week of October. the difference between an Incredi-pass and a sorcerer's pass is $470 + tax so about $500. For a family of four that's $2000 every two years in my scenario. On top of that you add the food and merch discounts that being an AP/DVC holder give you and you may save another $300-500 a year via that, so be conservative and say those discounts save you $300 a year, you're looking at $1300 a year in savings with your direct points, you break even on that after 8 years. That's a reasonable rate of return to say that it is worth the purchase of 150 points.

I cannot come up with an argument that makes direct purchase of MORE than 150 points make sense to me - with the exception of maybe wanting to own at Riviera as your home resort. But that sorcerer's pass really could sell a direct contract IMO.