Dining plan speculation that I have heard for 2008~

[pilferk]

I think your "suspicions" are right on the money. I'm sure we've all seen the dazed "sticker-shock" looks on visitors who really can't believe how much their vacation is costing them!

For every gushing trip report we see here, I'm sure a lot of folks go home thinking, "It will be at least ten years before I do that again!" I have several friends who only go to WDW every five years or so strictly because of the cost (and they're in Miami and just drive up). They love WDW, but they just can't afford it.

Yup, I suspect that's true.

The thing is...Disney's doing a balancing act: Satisfy the consumer enough, provide enough value, so they can maximize profits.

I think the current DDP tipped the balance in favor of the consumer, for whatever reason (we can all speculate on that one). The rumored one seems to be tipping back toward either equilibrium, or maybe a bit in favor of Disney. They'll walk that line until it becomes obvious that it's not working, and they have to tip back toward the consumer again.

 

[Praying Colonel]

Thanks for posting. We are going to have to rethink the plan for next year. I don't care too much about the appetizer but I am very disappointed about the tip. I like having everything prepaid and they didn't lower the price enough to make this a deal.

The rumored changes posted in Deb's blog don't work well for our family. What Disney calls an appetizer is a big deal for our family. DW is big on salads, and those don't come with most TS entrees--they have to be ordered separately, and we can get them as appetizers. OTOH, if we eat out our family of 4 usually doesn't order 4 desserts--if we order dessert, we might order 1 and each have a nibble. So this proposed change would mean that either we go without a salad or a cup of soup (like the cheddar cheese soup at LeC) or pay OOP for it, which raises our cost/person by $6-10. If they have to limit our food choices, I'd rather they offer a choice of appetizer or dessert.

The $1 decrease hacks me off. Surely they don't think we believe that the $1 decrease is anything more than a token gesture given that guests will now have to pay the tip. Guess they think we're stupid.

I posted a week or so ago about how Disney seems to be seeing how far they can go before guests reach their "squeal point." This change about takes our family to that point. I was willing to accept paying rack rate for a resort room in exchange for the DDP. The changes posted by Deb make it much less likely that we'll do so in the future. I could see us staying offsite and either eating our TS meals offsite, or getting 1 AP and the DDE. It's much less likely that we'll sign up for this watered-down, more expensive version of the DDP.

ETA:

--The deluxe plan looks interesting, and I'm happy for those who will now have that choice available to them. My disappointment is not with the addition of the other plans, just the scaling back of what we have now.

--I think the "captive audience" point is a great one. Folks get used to free ME, and so they're less likely to go offsite. So go ahead and start scaling back what they can have and increase the bottom line. They're probably figuring folks like our family (that look at the cost and the possibility of staying offsite with our own vehicle) are the exception and they'll make more $ from the people who are the "captive audience."

 

[honeymo78]

I'm excited about the Deluxe dining option. That will be a perfect excuse to convince DH to make more winter trips. We like 3 meals a day but during the winter we don't spend enough time doing recreation to make the Premium package worthwhile. Even though we used DDP twice, we still were paying for meals OOP and hated eating CS but since one TS meal costs about what the DDP is priced at, we figured why not. But $70 for 3 meals - and the note at the top said appys included - sounds like heaven for me.

 

[gina2000]

--I think the "captive audience" point is a great one. Folks get used to free ME, and so they're less likely to go offsite. So go ahead and start scaling back what they can have and increase the bottom line. They're probably figuring folks like our family (that looks at the cost and the possibility of staying offsite with our own vehicle) are the exception and they'll make more $ from the people who are the "captive audience."

If they do look at us as captive audiences, I think they may be making a grave mistake. If the DDP was used to fill hotel rooms in conjunction with the DDP fulfilling their eating needs, there is a point where it's no longer "a deal". Many people have decided to stay onsite in order to use the DDP. Without an attractive package, they will no longer stay onsite.

From what I've read, WDW has far more offsite guests than onsite if I'm not mistaken. I think they were trying to draw some of these guests onsite through the use of the successful combination of ME and DDP. I wonder at which point it is no longer a deal for the first time visitor and/or the repeat visitor. Are they different? Probably. Once you get the lay of the land, it's easier to make alternate plans. Though I will say that if it's true that WDW has more offsite guests than onsite, people have gotten more saavy over the years and are willing to stretch their vacation dollars in creative ways rather than just fork it over.

 

[JimMIA]

The $1 decrease hacks me off. Surely they don't think we believe that the $1 decrease is anything more than a token gesture given that guests will now have to pay the tip. Guess they think we're stupid.

Now Colonel...you know as well as I do that there is someone out there right now going, "WOW!!! They reduced the price of DDP a buck for both kids and adults!!!!! WOO-HOOOOO!!!!"

 

[pilferk]

I'm excited about the Deluxe dining option. That will be a perfect excuse to convince DH to make more winter trips. We like 3 meals a day but during the winter we don't spend enough time doing recreation to make the Premium package worthwhile. Even though we used DDP twice, we still were paying for meals OOP and hated eating CS but since one TS meal costs about what the DDP is priced at, we figured why not. But $70 for 3 meals - and the note at the top said appys included - sounds like heaven for me.

The update mentioned on Debs site:

UPDATE INFO: 7/31/07
1) The Deluxe Dining plan still does NOT include gratuity. It DOES include the appetizer.
2) No word on DVC member pricing

which means the DXDDP becomes a MUCH better value than we've been discussing. Still not sure if it's too much food, though....

 

[Colleen27]

Hooray!!!!!!!!!!! I am So-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o happy about the deluxe dining plan!!!!! In our estimates of 2 TS per day using DDE, paying OOP for the 3 of us, would run around $1300 for 10 days. This is only $1280 for the same time period, but with 3 TS. That means character breakfasts every day!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And we can finally head back to some of the signature restaurants for dinner.

As for tipping OOP, fine with us, although I have never personally felt that we have received poorer service with the DDP...

I estimate our meal expenses for 11 nights/12 days at about $2000 (DDP plus extra OOP table service meals). The deluxe plan for the same trip would be $1980 - not a signficant price difference, but much more convenient than using both the DDP & paying OOP, and much better not to be eating CS when we'd rather have TS because those are the credits we need to use. We already have 3 signature meals planned, and we'd probably add two more if we were on the deluxe plan (Yachtsman Steakhouse instead of Shula's, since we can eat at Shula's up here, and Narcoosees for DH's lobster fix). We'd also tend to do quicker TS like The Plaza rather than CS for lunches, and maybe have a few more character breaksfasts just for the experience, since I wouldn't be thnking about paying $20 for a few bites of fruit & yogurt (we're not big breakfast people).

I can't wait to see the list of participating restaurants. The only thing that could make me happier about the deluxe plan is if Fultons is included, even if it is as a signature restaurant.

 

[paulh]

A party of 6 or more will get a bill for an 18% service fee. Walking out on that check is the same as walking out on any other check. My guess is Disney will assume you forget to sign the check and will just add it to your room charge.

i amnot saying i will not tip,just that it looks more like its a automatic gratuity
Paulh

 

[tarheelmjfan]

I'm excited about the Deluxe dining option. That will be a perfect excuse to convince DH to make more winter trips. We like 3 meals a day but during the winter we don't spend enough time doing recreation to make the Premium package worthwhile. Even though we used DDP twice, we still were paying for meals OOP and hated eating CS but since one TS meal costs about what the DDP is priced at, we figured why not. But $70 for 3 meals - and the note at the top said appys included - sounds like heaven for me.

Somehow, I missed that. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. When I 1st read about the Deluxe Plan, I thought, "Yeah, finally a plan that works for our family." Then I checked out the menus, & saw we would be saving very little. Our DS is 15, & we don't eat at Character Breakfasts any longer. For dinner, we prefer Signature restaurants. Those things combined made the plan not look like much of a deal for us. I wasn't adding an appetizer into the price though. It's looking like a much better deal now than it was.

As a side note, for those who say a meal plan is too much food, I haven't had anyone force feed me yet. (We don't eat at 50's PTC. ) While I think the cuts we're seeing in the plan are ultimately about WDW making more money, I think the "too much food" & "bad service w/ DDP" complaints definitely gave Disney the ammo they needed to make significant cuts. If you don't want that much food, why order or eat it? More importantly, why complain & make things worse for those who do?

 

[pilferk]

Somehow, I missed that. Thanks for bringing it to our attention. When I 1st read about the Deluxe Plan, I thought, "Yeah, finally a plan that works for our family." Then I checked out the menus, & saw we would be saving very little. Our DS is 15, & we don't eat at Character Breakfasts any longer. For dinner, we prefer Signature restaurants. Those things combined made the plan not look like much of a deal for us. I wasn't adding an appetizer into the price though. It's looking like a much better deal now than it was.

The note didn't go up until sometime around noonish today...so you may not have "missed it"....it may just not have been there.

As a side note, for those who say a meal plan is too much food, I haven't had anyone force feed me yet. (We don't eat at 50's PTC. ) While I think the cuts we're seeing in the plan are ultimately about WDW making more money, I think the "too much food" & "bad service w/ DDP" complaints definitely gave Disney the ammo they needed to make significant cuts. If you don't want that much food, why order or eat it? More importantly, why complain & make things worse for those who do?

Let me, at least, clarify what I mean by "too much food" (which I never did complain about with the current DDP...only a question on the deluxe DDP):

To actually realize a value from the price, you may have to order a LOT more food than we would or could eat. It's not a complaint about portion size or offerings, it's a question that, for less $$ OOP, we could leave just as "full" as we could paying for the DXDDP. I'm not sure if we'll find that to be the case, or not, yet. But if you offer me 3 TS a day, 2 snacks, that's what the price of the plan is based on, and I can only eat 2 TS, with no apps, and NO snacks....really, what am I "saving" on the DXDDP? Not the cost of 3TS + 2 snacks, because that's not what I would have ordered.

Now, with most of the complaints about the current DDP...it WAS about portion size/food offerings. They weren't wondering about value (because, almost any way you sliced it, it was a very good value), but about leaving food literally on the table uneaten.

 

[global_mom]

To actually realize a value from the price, you may have to order a LOT more food than we would or could eat. It's not a complaint about portion size or offerings, it's a question that, for less $$ OOP, we could leave just as "full" as we could paying for the DXDDP. I'm not sure if we'll find that to be the case, or not, yet. But if you offer me 3 TS a day, 2 snacks, that's what the price of the plan is based on, and I can only eat 2 TS, with no apps, and NO snacks....really, what am I "saving" on the DXDDP? Not the cost of 3TS + 2 snacks, because that's not what I would have ordered.

It will all be based on personal family traveling styles and will have great value for some and no value for others. My family of 5 would most likely not be able to eat 3 TS and 2 snacks each day. But what we would do would be eat a late TS character breakfast, snack in late afternoon, and then a signature dinner around 8pm. We usually only eat 2 meals a day at WDW and supplement with the snacks b/c we dont find ourselves hungry enough to eat 3 meals per day. However, we definately eat more per meal when on vacation, thus no need for 3 big meals per day. Eating out is a huge part of the fun for us and the Deluxe plan could be perfect for a family like ours. There will also be plenty of folks who will love to have 3 TS meals per day. There will also be plenty of folks who want no DDP. The simplification of pre-payment will be value enough for some folks.

 

[clombardi]

If you don't want that much food, why order or eat it? More importantly, why complain & make things worse for those who do?

Oh grow up...nobody made anything "worse" for you. I haven't heard any "complaining" while reading this thread. I have heard discussion of food amounts.

 

[pilferk]

It will all be based on personal family traveling styles and will have great value for some and no value for others. My family of 5 would most likely not be able to eat 3 TS and 2 snacks each day. But what we would do would be eat a late TS character breakfast, snack in late afternoon, and then a signature dinner around 8pm. We usually only eat 2 meals a day at WDW and supplement with the snacks b/c we dont find ourselves hungry enough to eat 3 meals per day. However, we definately eat more per meal when on vacation, thus no need for 3 big meals per day. Eating out is a huge part of the fun for us and the Deluxe plan could be perfect for a family like ours. There will also be plenty of folks who will love to have 3 TS meals per day. There will also be plenty of folks who want no DDP. The simplification of pre-payment will be value enough for some folks.

Agreed. I was just using one example. It will all depend on your personal "vacation style"...much more so than the current DDP does.

In either case, no matter WHAT style you vacation in, IF cost/value is a factor, then you need to compare with THAT agenda's costs and DDP...and not just "what you're entitled to" on DDP/DXDDP.

As an aside: Your "agenda" is pretty close to the one we'd adopt.....if our kids were older. But with (by our next trip) a 5 yo, 3 yo, and 18 month old along for the ride...we have to limit our signature dining. It's just not really "kid friendly" enough. We can certainly do it once (JIKO'S!!!!!), but more than that would be pushing our luck, I think.

That being said, we CAN do other, more family friendly, things that might make good use of the credits. Hoop De Do, for example. Mickey's BBQ...stuff like that.

Again, I'm intrigued...but I need to run numbers and look at scenarios to see if it's a good fit for us. It might well be...it might not be. But it's going to take a bit more analysis than the current DDP plan does, IMHO.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

The note didn't go up until sometime around noonish today...so you may not have "missed it"....it may just not have been there.

Thanks for the info.

To actually realize a value from the price, you may have to order a LOT more food than we would or could eat. It's not a complaint about portion size or offerings, it's a question that, for less $$ OOP, we could leave just as "full" as we could paying for the DXDDP. I'm not sure if we'll find that to be the case, or not, yet. But if you offer me 3 TS a day, 2 snacks, that's what the price of the plan is based on, and I can only eat 2 TS, with no apps, and NO snacks....really, what am I "saving" on the DXDDP? Not the cost of 3TS + 2 snacks, because that's not what I would have ordered.

I understand what you're saying. None of the dining plans will work for everyone. We've never used DDP, because it just didn't work for our dining style. The "new" Deluxe Plan will, if it's as rumored. We like TS meals, & order appy, entree, & dessert for dinner regardless of the price. (This is a vacation thing, not an everyday life thing. ) It is our experience that portions at more expensive restaurants are smaller to allow people to enjoy 3 or more courses. If it becomes too much food, we can always skip a meal or order less. Those who are sure it will be too much food for their family could go with another plan or pay OOP. I agree that it doesn't make sense to purchase any plan that would cost you more in the long run.

My point was, I've seen the "too much food" complaint about the current dining plan repeatedly on here. I always thought the complainers were providing WDW with an excuse to cut the plan. Some people enjoyed everything the current DDP has to offer. Wouldn't it be better to not order a course than to give them reason to scale back on the offerings? On the current plan, you can order only what you want & still come out ahead. That's not necessarily going to be the case in the future. IMHO, if one sees it as too much food, they should pay for meals OOP or not complain.

 

[pilferk]

understand what you're saying. None of the dining plans will work for everyone. We've never used DDP, because it just didn't work for our dining style. The "new" Deluxe Plan will, if it's as rumored. We like TS meals, & order appy, entree, & dessert for dinner regardless of the price. (This is a vacation thing, not an everyday life thing. ) It is our experience that portions at more expensive restaurants are smaller to allow people to enjoy 3 or more courses. If it becomes too much food, we can always skip a meal or order less. Those who are sure it will be too much food for their family could go with another plan or pay OOP. I agree that it doesn't make sense to purchase any plan that would cost you more in the long run.

I think in THIS thread, that's precisely the connotation "too much food" is being used. As in: Should I choose another plan or OOP because to receive value I'd have to order MUCH more than I would, "normally".

My point was, I've seen the "too much food" complaint about the current dining plan repeatedly on here. I always thought the complainers were providing WDW with an excuse to cut the plan. Some people enjoyed everything the current DDP has to offer. Wouldn't it be better to not order a course than to give them reason to scale back on the offerings? On the current plan, you can order only what you want & still come out ahead. That's not necessarily going to be the case in the future. IMHO, if one sees it as too much food, they should pay for meals OOP or not complain.

See, I think guest feedback is guest feedback. And everyone is entitled to share that feedback with WDW. You, me, and the person who isn't happy with the sheer amount of food on the current DDP.

You have to realize that WDW isn't going to act without a boat load of data, sampled 6 different ways from Sunday. And if your opinions are in the minority (or Disney's "perspecitve" of minority)....well, at the end of the day Disney is trying to cater to the largest client base it can, while still being profitable. You can't say "Hey, I like it so please...SHHHHH...don't say anything". That's not fair to Disney's other clients, who have just as much a right to have their voices heard as you do. You may not agree with what they're saying, or Disney's actions to satisfy them, but...rest assured, at some point down the road the tables will be turned. Would you want YOUR "voice" silenced?

That's assuming the cuts weren't fiscal in nature (in other words, a foregone conclusion) and the "guest satisfaction" line is simply a customer friendly way to justify it.

 

[ENSOCK]

OK, I am confused. The current DDP is 1 ts, 1cs and 1 snack per day per person. The new plan is 1 ts, 1 cs and 1 snack per day per person just without tip and app. included???? Please let me know if this is the case or not????

I am trying to make plans for next summer and the only reason we were staying on Disney property is the ddp. Thank you!!

 

[JimMIA]

A party of 6 or more will get a bill for an 18% service fee. Walking out on that check is the same as walking out on any other check. My guess is Disney will assume you forget to sign the check and will just add it to your room charge.

i amnot saying i will not tip,just that it looks more like its a automatic gratuity
Paulh

It will be an automatic gratuity. It will be added to every check for parties of six or more (whether you are on DDP or not), and all DDE checks regardless of party size.

If you don't think the tip was warranted, you could discuss it with a manager, but my guess is Lewisc is right. If you don't pay it at the table, you'll probably see it on your bill when you check out of your resort.

 

[pilferk]

OK, I am confused. The current DDP is 1 ts, 1cs and 1 snack per day per person. The new plan is 1 ts, 1 cs and 1 snack per day per person just without tip and app. included???? Please let me know if this is the case or not????

I am trying to make plans for next summer and the only reason we were staying on Disney property is the ddp. Thank you!!

All RUMORED, FYI. Nothing has been officially announced.

Essentially, yes..that's the new basic plan: 1TS, 1CS, and 1 snack, per person, per day...no app with the TS...no tips. And the price is going down $1 per day for both the adult and child prices.

They're also offering a "Deluxe DDP", which costs 69.99 (adult) and 19.99 (child) per day. That includes 3 meals (CS or TS, your choice). TS meals DO include appetizer. Still no tips.

They're offering an "add on" to BOTH packages. For an additional 39.99 per day, you can order one bottle of wine at a restaurant or store selling wine.

Hope that helps.

 

[tarheelmjfan]

Oh grow up...nobody made anything "worse" for you. I haven't heard any "complaining" while reading this thread. I have heard discussion of food amounts.

You're right! Noone did make things worse for me. We didn't utilize DDP, because it didn't work for us. I thought I mentioned that in my pp. The complaining wasn't in this thread, but it has been going on since the inception of DDP. There was definitely enough people for WDW to be able to claim they reduced the offerings, because that's what people wanted. I just happen to think it's better not to give them a viable excuse to cutback. They'll do that all on their own. I would hate to see them remove the appetizer from the Deluxe, due to it being too much food.

 

[JimMIA]

OK, I am confused. The current DDP is 1 ts, 1cs and 1 snack per day per person. The new plan is 1 ts, 1 cs and 1 snack per day per person just without tip and app. included???? Please let me know if this is the case or not????

I am trying to make plans for next summer and the only reason we were staying on Disney property is the ddp. Thank you!!

Yes, that's the plan. One snack, one CS, and one TS without appetizer (which many will be fine with) and without the 18% gratuity included. And the price is rumored to be dropping $1 for both adult and children's meals.