Dining Plan Deja Vu

[melomouse]

Hi -
Maybe this belongs elsewhere, but I wanted to comment on something interesting about the Dining Plan since just last year.

I visit the boards mostly around the times of our yearly trips, so I'm not on the DIS year round. In '06, I booked a mother-daughter WDW trip in April for the FDP in September.

Hot topics on the board were about using kids credits for adults, splitting meals, multi ADR's and the rights and wrong, ins and outs of such. FDR was a "gift" and yet there were many trying to do multi- Signature restaurants by saving up kid's credits and sharing meals. There WAS no "Dining Plan" topic solo on the boards then. There seemed to be much hand wringing and panty twisting over "too much food", wastefulness, calories, healthy choices.

There were those gently and not-so-gently reminding others that if the plan is exploited by guests, there will be cutbacks and we all will lose. These DIS'er's were labelled quickly as the morality police in the same category as the lifetime mugger and pool hopper opponents.

We went on our FDP trip. It was awesome. We even got into LeCellier from a call made once we were on property. Yes, it was terrific!

Fast forward. Cancelled our cruise this summer and we've decided we need our Disney fix. Ten days at YC coming up with paid DDP because I want to be out of there before free dining.

So this is what I've noticed since I returned to the boards:
People are upset that there is no bread at MM. (6 pages worth)
People are STILL double-booking ADR's. (many pages worth)
Others can't even find ANY suitable dining options for TS.
Kid's meal options have changed and there has been major distress it.
Kids and adults credits are VERY clearly separated now.
There will be a NEW DDP announced soon and people are angry!!! (many, many pages AND polls AND speculation)

I don't get it. Did anyone really think that all of the system abuses of a free or even reasonably priced dining plan would last? The changes are all "cutbacks" and they haven't evolved solely because Disney is a business that is "greedy".

Does anyone really think that the DDP should fit EVERY single family on every single trip????

Donning flame-retardant suit. I think I love the DIS for the kindness, helpfulness and folks who are willing to share their considerable expertise. But maybe I'm still too to understand that sometimes what is here is just the way the world is....

Thanks for hearing me out.

 

[pooch]

we look at the FDP which we used last year (dh's favorite part of the trip) and will use again this year as a gift from WDW. We eat as we please and what we please, never trying to max out credits. We do share CS meals because that's how we eat, left 5 unused last year along with 1TS and 11 SC. As you said, something had to give!!! But I also try to keep in mind that the Disney OC's here (me included) are really a very small portion of WDW business and I'm not sure we have the impact on the company we think we do! Most people I talk to are clueless. They call a travel agent & book a trip. They know nothing about getting the most value from DDP credits and manipulating the system. They don't even know there IS a system. So, although I do agree with you, I'm not sure that WE caused the changes to the 2008 DDP.

 

[gigi1313]

you'll get no flames or argument from me... well said

 

[Tabetha]

I liked all the complaints when the tips WERE included - "The waiters won't work as hard to serve well because their tip is automatic". Well now people are complaining because the tips AREN'T included. You can't have it both ways.

I'll still probably use the plan. I won't miss the appetizer, I don't mind tipping, I'm sure we'll still manage to get a good value for our dollar. Even if we "just break even" on the value of hte plan.

 

[bicker]

I don't get it. Did anyone really think that all of the system abuses of a free or even reasonably priced dining plan would last?

Indeed... well said.

 

[Becky2005]

I liked all the complaints when the tips WERE included - "The waiters won't work as hard to serve well because their tip is automatic". Well now people are complaining because the tips AREN'T included. You can't have it both ways.

That's the part I find so *hmmm* wasn't having the tip NOT included what everyone wanted? So, why is everyone all upset that it's not included now? Probably because the price of the plan didn't go down by 18%.

For us, it's a mute point as we will have an automatic 18% added to our bill because we are a family of 6.

Tip was taken out of ALL the plans, so it doesn't matter which one you go with -- the tipping will come out of pocket.

I'm actually in the minority as I'm thrilled with the new Deluxe plan that's being rolled out but probably because we went on the Premium (when MYW stuff was all new) & although we did the recreation the *main* reason we picked that was so we didn't have to deal with worrying about if we wanted 3 TS/day & running out of TS credits vs. CS credits, etc... To us the Deluxe is exactly the type of plan we wanted & it includes 2 snacks plus refillable mug to boot. We never tried to worry about getting our monies worth in terms of food, 90% of the time we never ordered appetizers even with them included. I suppose we *technically* cheated since we used a lot of my adult credits for my 1 year old but they had no problems with that then (at non buffets) but I don't think they have a problem with that way around. I don't know if that would work now but no matter since he will be charged now for his own plan.

 

[BCV23]

I agree with you, melomouse.

But I do have a question. Where have you read pages of people doublebooking? I've missed that thread.

 

[JimMIA]

That's the part I find so *hmmm* wasn't having the tip NOT included what everyone wanted? So, why is everyone all upset that it's not included now? Probably because the price of the plan didn't go down by 18%.

I always had a nagging suspicion that many of the people who complained about the included gratuity did so because they don't tip 18%. I thought most of them were probably in the 10% tipper category, probably with some zero tippers. I just read too many posts saying, "18% is too much," and "If I tip 18%, my family can't afford to eat in that restaurant," etc. Those folks will be delighted with the change, because their DDP cost went down $1 per day!

For us, it's a mute point as we will have an automatic 18% added to our bill because we are a family of 6.

It's not a moot point. This statement misses the point; that doesn't make the point moot.

Tip was taken out of ALL the plans, so it doesn't matter which one you go with -- the tipping will come out of pocket.

Yep. THIS statement IS the point of the gratuity change. Formerly, Disney paid it; now you pay it.

 

[SuzieN]

I'm a little confused about the 18% gratuity being automatically added to parties of 6 or more. We will be a party of 6 in February and I'm wondering of the tip being added in means we don't have to tip out of pocket? I'm not trying to weasel out of the tip - just a little confused! Anyone's input would be appreciated!

 

[gigi1313]

you still have to pay the gratuity... now you will get a "bill" stating what the gratuity is... for parties smaller than six, it is at the guest's discretion what amount to tip... for parties six or more, you will be told/billed how much to tip...

 

[smartestnumber5]

Are you saying you think the most recent changes to the DDP were a result of guests abusing it? I guess I haven't really seen evidence of people abusing the system since the child/adult credit thing was fixed.

I don't pretend to know why Disney does anything it does, but I do find it hard to believe that such a huge price increase in the cost of the DDP (when you factor in losing an appetizer and having to pay the tip yourself) could be solely the result of trying to stop abuses. But who knows.

My (completely uneducated) guess is that it was the plan all along to only offer the DDP at a great savings to guests for long enough to expose a new group of people to Disney resorts over offsite hotels and to get those people hooked on eating a lot of TS meals at Disney parks/resorts. I assume Disney must know that it is going to lose a lot of DDP business given the changes (or at least, that appears to be the case giving recent polls/threads around here.)

Personally, we're in the "won't use again" (though we'd take it for free dining of course and we might use the deluxe plan for a few days if we're on a particularly special trip.) I ran some numbers and under the new basic plan we'd actually spend $70 MORE to get the DDP than if we went to the same restaurants and ate normally (if we used the DDE it would be $150 MORE). Apparently, though, other people still find the new DDP a good deal and will continue to use it--good for them.

 

[melomouse]

Hi All (Where's that suit?? - oh! Don't need it yet?? )

pooch - Good point that we DIS'er's are not the ones who might have directly made the changes - not at all - and I didn't mean to indicate such a broad generalized statement. One of my observations, tho, was that there is often great argument and discussion and over-the-top commentary from those who were already getting something for free or reduced rate and trying to "maximize" even more - not realizing what a "deal" they were getting in the first place. Others outside the DIS surely did this too - and WDW monitors these boards pretty regularly, too -


BCV23 -
This was started in May then recently resurrected - I just shook my head as I read page after page...
http://disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1446304

Bicker - good to see you - lol - did you recognize your own words??

Gigi1313 - my fellow LI'er So happy to see you!!

And this, from JimMIA:
"I always had a nagging suspicion that many of the people who complained about the included gratuity did so because they don't tip 18%. I thought most of them were probably in the 10% tipper category, probably with some zero tippers. I just read too many posts saying, "18% is too much," and "If I tip 18%, my family can't afford to eat in that restaurant," etc. Those folks will be delighted with the change, because their DDP cost went down $1 per day.."

EXACTLY! ITA!

Fact is, the DDP is NOT for everyone on every trip. It's an option. If we started thinking of the DDP as an optional add-on like an Illuminations cruise, concierge level bookings, or a Segway tour, responses/reactions would be so much different!!!

 

[melomouse]

Are you saying you think the most recent changes to the DDP were a result of guests abusing it? I guess I haven't really seen evidence of people abusing the system since the child/adult credit thing was fixed.

I don't pretend to know why Disney does anything it does, but I do find it hard to believe that such a huge price increase in the cost of the DDP (when you factor in losing an appetizer and having to pay the tip yourself) could be solely the result of trying to stop abuses. But who knows.

My (completely uneducated) guess is that it was the plan all along to only offer the DDP at a great savings to guests for long enough to expose a new group of people to Disney resorts over offsite hotels and to get those people hooked on eating a lot of TS meals at Disney parks/resorts. I assume Disney must know that it is going to lose a lot of DDP business given the changes (or at least, that appears to be the case giving recent polls/threads around here.)

I think I agree with you that Disney has done an "introductory rate" and now will be a bit more in line business-wise, while still providing a service for more guests than before, tho not as many as have taken advantage these last couple of years

But, as I've highlighted in your post - you can't have a "huge" increase after "great savings" and not understand that some? many? some DIS'er's? exploited the "great savings" by not identifying the DDP as such in the beginning.

 

[Becky2005]

you still have to pay the gratuity... now you will get a "bill" stating what the gratuity is... for parties smaller than six, it is at the guest's discretion what amount to tip... for parties six or more, you will be told/billed how much to tip...

That's the way I'm understanding it. It won't be included in the plan (with a couple of exceptions) but you will be automatically handed a bill with a 18% gratuity added that you have to pay out of pocket. As opposed to say a party of 5 or less, that could choose to tip 10%, 15%, 18% or 25% for that matter.

Really no different than any local place here that does that for larger parties.

 

[Luv2Roam]

I don't think it is all Disney. Nor do I think it is all due to guests "habits".
As someone stated I think the DDP was a great invention to promote the Disney dining and keep guests on site.
I would not be surprised if Disney underestimated some creativity of credit usage. I am sure some was expected. But I can't help but wonder if the creativity went to much higher levels than anticipated.
I also think at some times Disney way oversold the DDP and severly overtaxed the ADR and restaurant system.
I think the new DDP is just a correction on various levels.
We used the DDE. And even if an automatic tip is included, it won't bother me. That makes it easier. And truthfully we normally leave the amount of the discount as the tip. We actually will be coming out ahead, or leaving extra, if the rumors are true for 2008 DDE.

 

[Sabrina90744]

I liked all the complaints when the tips WERE included - "The waiters won't work as hard to serve well because their tip is automatic". Well now people are complaining because the tips AREN'T included. You can't have it both ways.

ITA, I think it is great without the tip, some waiters dont deserve 1% let alone 18%. Maybe knowing they have to work for their tip we will have better service.

I'll still probably use the plan. I won't miss the appetizer, I don't mind tipping, I'm sure we'll still manage to get a good value for our dollar. Even if we "just break even" on the value of hte plan.

I will still be using the plan for our upcoming trip , to me it is still a value. I cant see a family of 3 eating 2 meals a day for less than $90 a day. Sure I could follow mousesavers advice and order a double cheeseburger and extra bun and other saving tips but I am on vacation and I want to live it up. Sure not having the appy sucks but hey leaves more room for the yummy desserts.

I think no matter what people are going to complain, you cant make everyone happy. I dont understand why so many people complain and complain but still go. If you are that unhappy with the situation, DONT GO.

 

[paulh]

someone put me right,way i have read it party less than 6 orders an app and pays oop.when they get the bill for app there will be an 18% tip added as meal a dinning plan 18% added for oop .But not for rest of meal they can tip what they like?
Paulh