Difference between the fires and Katrina

[LuvDuke]

I live in Louisiana a few miles from New Orleans.

The National Guard was ready to help.

They couldn't because the GOVERNOR wouldn't request the help. Talk about numbovaries.

The Feds could not come in w/out an invite from the GOVERNOR. It's the law.

There were trucks with food and water that could not help because the GOVERNOR did not request their help.

Much, much too late, the empty headed cuckoo bird did request help.

This part was not Bush's responsibility. It was the Governor's responsibility.


Now, not wanting to fund the Spillway that could prevent flooding-that's Bush because he won't sign the bill.

Like it or not, if you're a US citizen, he IS your president.

We've come full circle to the "technicality" argument. So when the call didn't come and we were seeing what we were seeing live on our tv's, Bush had no obligation to make the call to Blanco and say "Kathleen, we need to talk"? Is that it?

A real leader would've taken the lead and made the call himself. It didn't happen and that is where Bush made his mistake.

And, NO, he is not my president as he never intended to be my president.

 

[rie'smom]

We've come full circle to the "technicality" argument. So when the call didn't come and we were seeing what we were seeing live on our tv's, Bush had no obligation to make the call to Blanco and say "Kathleen, we need to talk"? Is that it?

A real leader would've taken the lead and made the call himself. It didn't happen and that is where Bush made his mistake.

And, NO, he is not my president as he never intended to be my president.

If Bush had called, the idiot who was our governor, might have taken offense because the call would imply that she was incompetent. Our Kathleen is very touchy. She's so dumb that she almost ran for re-election! Thank God, we have a new governor.

I think that those who lived through the catastrophe may have a tad bit better knowledge of the events. We put the blame where it should be, right at the feet of Blanco and to a lesser extent, Nagin.

 

[LakeAriel]

and Bush decided to allow all those people to die because he never ever breaks the law and he didn't want to offend the governor? Is that what you believe?

 

[lulu71]

I think that those who lived through the catastrophe may have a tad bit better knowledge of the events. We put the blame where it should be, right at the feet of Blanco and to a lesser extent, Nagin.

BTW, I love the numbovaries comment!

 

[Hannathy]

We've come full circle to the "technicality" argument. So when the call didn't come and we were seeing what we were seeing live on our tv's, Bush had no obligation to make the call to Blanco and say "Kathleen, we need to talk"? Is that it?

A real leader would've taken the lead and made the call himself. It didn't happen and that is where Bush made his mistake.

Actually the Feds did call her, and She refused for days. They called and told her to issue a forced evacuation, SHE refused. They can't make her take it until it is to a certain point, at which time they did. She was even refusing things as the city filled up. Of course this also goes back to her brilliant ideas to spend levee money on bike paths instead of fixing them but hey why nit pick.

By the way Bush shouldn't be a micro manager, I don't want the President doing that. Think Johnson and the fiasco of the Vietnam war, that is why there are departments. The Federal government did what the could and are allowed to and when it got so bad that they could legally do it they did and took over.

This country has had several natural disasters in the past few year and NO is the only one that the Federal Government had to step in and take total control off, so I think that is a good indication of where the blame really lies.

 

[yeartolate]

Actually the Feds did call her, and She refused for days. They called and told her to issue a forced evacuation, SHE refused. They can't make her take it until it is to a certain point, at which time they did. She was even refusing things as the city filled up. Of course this also goes back to her brilliant ideas to spend levee money on bike paths instead of fixing them but hey why nit pick.

.

How could they evacuate after the levees broke?

I understand that the governor made horendous mistakes. Unforgivable. I understand everything she should have done. I get it. We get it. But once NOLA was submerged - and we watched it on TV....it was obvious literally and figuratively the problem was over their heads.

We can see with the tsunamis thousands of miles away that we (the combined American we) have a moral oligation to to help wih out being asked, why was NOLA different.

But yes, again, NOLA was failed by the mayor and governor (numbnuts and numbovaries ) but to deny the federal government did not fail them as well is a bit odd to me.

 

[DVC Sadie]

Actually the Feds did call her, and She refused for days. They called and told her to issue a forced evacuation, SHE refused. They can't make her take it until it is to a certain point, at which time they did. She was even refusing things as the city filled up. Of course this also goes back to her brilliant ideas to spend levee money on bike paths instead of fixing them but hey why nit pick.

By the way Bush shouldn't be a micro manager, I don't want the President doing that. Think Johnson and the fiasco of the Vietnam war, that is why there are departments. The Federal government did what the could and are allowed to and when it got so bad that they could legally do it they did and took over.

This country has had several natural disasters in the past few year and NO is the only one that the Federal Government had to step in and take total control off, so I think that is a good indication of where the blame really lies.

She also stated that she did not want the Federal government coming in to dictate what was best for her state.

I get so fed up with people complaining about how NOLA did not receive money for their levees. That is a buch of bulldinkey.

I grew up in NOLA and they did receive a lot of money yearly (especially after hurricane Betsy) to not only maintain but to improve the levee system. They chose to use the levee money on every other hairbrained idea including bike paths and dredging Lake Pontchartrain so the casinos could come in without having to pay for the dredging themselves. The levee money was wasted on every idiotic scheme than where it was intended.

 

[LuvDuke]

and Bush decided to allow all those people to die because he never ever breaks the law and he didn't want to offend the governor? Is that what you believe?

It really is funny when you start boiling the argument down to it's essence.

In fact, it's downright hilarious.

And I'm still trying to figure out how an out-of-touch governor, a hysterical mayor, and misspent money somehow justify:

1) Bush's attending John McCain's birthday party,

2) playing air guitar with a C&W personality,

3) flying over the devastation

4) and then telling the one who was in charge ON THE GROUND "You're doing a heckuva job, Brownie".

And this was after 4 days of watching the tragedy unfold.

The justification dance boggles my mind, but frankly, it doesn't come as any great surprise.

 

[eclectics]

But yes, again, NOLA was failed by the mayor and governor (numbnuts and numbovaries ) but to deny the federal government did not fail them as well is a bit odd to me.

That's the part that I don't get either. I'll tell you one thing, if Katrina happened on Clinton's watch and his administration acted the way the Bush administration did, the Conservative voices would still be hoarse from all the outrage.

 

[LakeAriel]

It really is funny when you start boiling the argument down to it's essence.

In fact, it's downright hilarious.

And I'm still trying to figure out how an out-of-touch governor, a hysterical mayor, and misspent money somehow justify:

1) Bush's attending John McCain's birthday party,

2) playing air guitar with a C&W personality,

3) flying over the devastation

4) and then telling the one who was in charge ON THE GROUND "You're doing a heckuva job, Brownie".

And this was after 4 days of watching the tragedy unfold.

The justification dance boggles my mind, but frankly, it doesn't come as any great surprise.

I agree. I hope I can figure it out before I need blood pressure medication...

 

[GRUMPY PIRATE]

It really is funny when you start boiling the argument down to it's essence.

In fact, it's downright hilarious.

.....4) and then telling the one who was in charge ON THE GROUND "You're doing a heckuva job, Brownie".

That is a good quote!

But, Wasn't there another quote by a mayor that wanted to become Willie Wonka?

Something about turning (or returning) NOLA into Chocolate?

 

[eclectics]

That is a good quote!

But, Wasn't there another quote by a mayor that wanted to become Willie Wonka?

Something about turning (or returning) NOLA into Chocolate?

I agree. And that's the difference. WE think ALL are responsible and acted like imbeciles. Some here think the Feds should get a pass. That's ridiculous.

 

[yeartolate]

I agree. And that's the difference. WE think ALL are responsible and acted like imbeciles. Some here think the Feds should get a pass. That's ridiculous.

Yup

As long as imbeciles = numbnuts.

 

[What the Heck]

and Bush decided to allow all those people to die because he never ever breaks the law and he didn't want to offend the governor? Is that what you believe?

And now we come back to my question from 2 years ago. It is your point (and LuvDuke's) that he should have broken the law and sent in aid anyway. I get that. Do you get the Constitutional powers that would give him if he did that?

It would then give him the Constitutional powers, if we allowed it to stay unchallenged (and every president who follows) to send in and/or federalize troops for ANY emergency what so ever. Any emergency, such as someone dialing 911 because someone passed out. You would be establising a dictatorship for the Presidency, not in theory, not in name, but in fact. Florida would forever remain a protectorate, the Gulf as well. Indiana, Illinois, Kentucky, Missouri as well.

Again, if this president is as dumb as you say he is, why in God's name would you want to give him that much power?

 

[LakeAriel]

And now we come back to my question from 2 years ago. It is your point (and LuvDuke's) that he should have broken the law and sent in aid anyway. I get that. Do you get the Constitutional powers that would give him if he did that?

It would then give him the Constitutional powers, if we allowed it to stay unchallenged (and every president who follows) to send in and/or federalize troops for ANY emergency what so ever. Any emergency, such as someone dialing 911 because someone passed out. You would be establising a dictatorship for the Presidency, not in theory, not in name, but in fact. Florida would forever remain a protectorate, the Gulf as well. Indiana, Illinois, Kentucky, Missouri as well.

Again, if this president is as dumb as you say he is, why in God's name would you want to give him that much power?

I think this dumb president already has given himself these powers. He is the decider.
If he turned on CNN he would know it wasn't a case of "someone passed out" and gotten those troops in ASAP!

 

[Chicago526]

And now we come back to my question from 2 years ago. It is your point (and LuvDuke's) that he should have broken the law and sent in aid anyway. I get that. Do you get the Constitutional powers that would give him if he did that?

I could be totally wrong here, but I thought the Federal Government through FEMA had pretty broad powers to go in and take over in major emergencies? I don't mean that FEMA can call up the Guard, but I thought there was a lot they could do to take control of a situation?

Again, I could be totaly wrong about that, I just remember hearing some conspiracy nut (and this was like 10 years ago) that FEMA had all these powers that had potential for abuse.

 

[What the Heck]

I agree. And that's the difference. WE think ALL are responsible and acted like imbeciles. Some here think the Feds should get a pass. That's ridiculous.

I agree. Bush should have provided leadership at a time when it cried out for leadership. He shouldn't have been going across the country looking down from Air Force One, at that time, when it became apparant that Blanco wasn't going to get off her lazy *** and do something he should have placed himself in her back pocket.

But there are also those here that want to blame Bush for the entire thing, or even for the most, because of what was seen on TV. We get lip service that Nagin and Blanco made mistakes, but when it comes down to the nitty gritty, Bush should have sent in troops (I guess the Coast Guard and Navy troops sent were from God). Bush should have sent in supplies, Bush should have sent in the National Guard, I wouldn't be surprised if some believe Bush should have forced the evacuation. But they weren't his troops to send in, they weren't his orders to give.

Yes, we do get it. There is a 24% from the left as well.

 

[What the Heck]

I think this dumb president already has given himself these powers. He is the decider.
If he turned on CNN he would know it wasn't a case of "someone passed out" and gotten those troops in ASAP!

No, he hasn't. That still leaves the question to be answered. Do you really want him to have these powers? Again, not in name (as in people saying he does) but in fact? Do you want to open up this country to becoming a dictatorship? Do you want to give him these new powers, not for a new event, but for an event that has happened year after year to our country? The Founding Fathers didn't give him the powers you suggest, but they went through hurricanes.

And are you ready for all of the potential whiplash that could come from it? The South still has the scars from when they were federal protectorates in the 1860's and 1870's.

 

[What the Heck]

I could be totally wrong here, but I thought the Federal Government through FEMA had pretty broad powers to go in and take over in major emergencies? I don't mean that FEMA can call up the Guard, but I thought there was a lot they could do to take control of a situation?

Again, I could be totaly wrong about that, I just remember hearing some conspiracy nut (and this was like 10 years ago) that FEMA had all these powers that had potential for abuse.

Those powers come into play ONLY if the President declares martial law, which means he has to federalize the area first. Once the area is federalized, the state and local governments, for all practical purposes, are useless and powerless at this point.

 

[What the Heck]

How could they evacuate after the levees broke?

I understand that the governor made horendous mistakes. Unforgivable. I understand everything she should have done. I get it. We get it. But once NOLA was submerged - and we watched it on TV....it was obvious literally and figuratively the problem was over their heads.

We can see with the tsunamis thousands of miles away that we (the combined American we) have a moral oligation to to help wih out being asked, why was NOLA different.

But yes, again, NOLA was failed by the mayor and governor (numbnuts and numbovaries ) but to deny the federal government did not fail them as well is a bit odd to me.

Yet, they did bring it in to control. How long after General Honore was on the ground that things were obviously getting better? How soon after he came in that supplies were getting in, that control was established?

That was a mission the National Guard had trained for, they were ready and able to do. Blanco had to send him in though, not Bush.