Did not use fast pass +

[KellyNY]

What's wrong with keeping FP users' waiting in line to a minimum? They've already waited for their FP window to open up.

I just don't see why it's necessary to make FP riders wait in line for 15 minutes, especially when the standby line is very short as well (<30 minutes). I would use morning FastPasses more often if they saved more time. I'm sure baby-swap users would appreciate it, too.

Nothing wrong with making merging point closer to boarding point, not always possible however. Their promise "little or no wait", 15 minutes is little. Of course when SB is only 30 min it does not seem "little" and this is why during slow times some rides do not even distribute FPs. 15 min comparing to 90 -120 min SB looks much better however. I think with current design of rides, they simply cannot do it differently. Notice that majority of rides were built before FP, with narrow passages and no space for second line.

 

[Waddler]

Well, they can't completely shut down the standby line. Some people have to be getting throug there. And when you do the math on the added capacity, there just isn't an alterative.

That's the thing... there is no additional instantaneous or daily capacity for a given ride. Just a finite number of rider slots divvied up for standby, FP, or FP+ users. When you add FP and FP+ users, the number of standby rides per day has to decrease. No matter how many people are waiting in line, they can only squish so many riders onto the ride at once.

As long as they distribute fastpasses at a rate less than the ride's loading capacity, they wouldn't have to completely shut down the standby line. The exception to this would be when a slug of FP users return all at once, and then it would only temporary, and it would soon average out. If the FP line is backed up 15 minutes all day, then they're making people return 10-15 minutes too early. (Ooh! Real-life calculus application!)

I guess maybe I'm the only one that's bothered by the relatively long FP waits at Space Mountain, TSM, ToT (after the pre-show), to name a few. It just seems inefficient. We always go during slow times, so FP is pretty much useless for much of the day on these rides. It could easily be changed without physically reconfiguring the queues.

For example, on SM and TSM, they don't have to completely fill up the portion of the line between the merge point and the loading zone. Just hold the SB people at the merge point so the line past the merge point isn't filled to capacity. That way, FP users only wait behind a few SB riders. It's adjustable.

The FP waits for Winnie the Pooh, Peter Pan, BTMRR, Splash Mountain, and Buzz are always short, in my experience. I wish they would do this everywhere.

Before anyone tells me to chill out and enjoy my trip... I do. I just think that they could improve their system.

 

[mom2rtk]

That's the thing... there is no additional instantaneous or daily capacity for a given ride. Just a finite number of rider slots divvied up for standby, FP, or FP+ users. When you add FP and FP+ users, the number of standby rides per day has to decrease. No matter how many people are waiting in line, they can only squish so many riders onto the ride at once.

As long as they distribute fastpasses at a rate less than the ride's loading capacity, they wouldn't have to completely shut down the standby line. The exception to this would be when a slug of FP users return all at once, and then it would only temporary, and it would soon average out. If the FP line is backed up 15 minutes all day, then they're making people return 10-15 minutes too early. (Ooh! Real-life calculus application!)

I guess maybe I'm the only one that's bothered by the relatively long FP waits at Space Mountain, TSM, ToT (after the pre-show), to name a few. It just seems inefficient. We always go during slow times, so FP is pretty much useless for much of the day on these rides. It could easily be changed without physically reconfiguring the queues.

For example, on SM and TSM, they don't have to completely fill up the portion of the line between the merge point and the loading zone. Just hold the SB people at the merge point so the line past the merge point isn't filled to capacity. That way, FP users only wait behind a few SB riders. It's adjustable.

The FP waits for Winnie the Pooh, Peter Pan, BTMRR, Splash Mountain, and Buzz are always short, in my experience. I wish they would do this everywhere.

Before anyone tells me to chill out and enjoy my trip... I do. I just think that they could improve their system.

I guess it's just a matter of how MUCH you're willing to have that standby line slow down. I think it has to remain a viable option. Make the line too long and slow and it ceases to be a viable option. And there's a limit (not technically, but logistically) to how many fastpasses you can use in the course of the day, so eventually everyone is going to end up in a standby line.

From the very moment they said they had added fastpass capacity, I just accepted that the standby wait would be a little slower, and that the fastpass line wouldn't be as fast.

Doesn't mean I like it, I just accepted it based on the math and a constant ride loading capacity.

I think the entire system worked great the way it was and wish they hadn't started tinkering with it.

 

[SheilaHeartsDisney]

We had fastpass + for sunday and we ended up going to the park after two of the times had passed which was ok becuase they were rides we had done earlier in the week. We did try it though for the last two just to try it. First one was for a ride which it worked just fine and the second was for a Wishes viewing spot. So not worth it for the fireworks. You stand in line to go to a spot that really isn't the best spot. It was just wierd to stand in line for something that you don't need to stand in line for anyway. If they closed off a section right in front of the castle then that might be cool but the rose garden just wasn't a good spot for us. We ended up walking out of that spot to go to a better one. I like the idea of fastpass +. Once it rolls out I'm wonder how far out you have to book it and if you can do it for more than one park a day or even a park a day. It will be interesting.

 

[Waddler]

From the very moment they said they had added fastpass capacity, I just accepted that the standby wait would be a little slower, and that the fastpass line wouldn't be as fast.

Yeah. I'd just argue that there's no reason to let the FP line back up all day long. When you pick up a fastpass, your future boarding time is set. It does no good to make FP people return well before they can actually board. The standby line doesn't go slower because FP people are waiting around... it goes slower because they're issuing fastpasses at a faster rate.

The FP line only backs up when they're unrealistic about how many FP users they can accommodate in a given timeframe, or when they make FP users show up early just for the heck of it.

 

[KellyNY]

Yeah. I'd just argue that there's no reason to let the FP line back up all day long. When you pick up a fastpass, your future boarding time is set. It does no good to make FP people return well before they can actually board. The standby line doesn't go slower because FP people are waiting around... it goes slower because they're issuing fastpasses at a faster rate.

The FP line only backs up when they're unrealistic about how many FP users they can accommodate in a given timeframe, or when they make FP users show up early just for the heck of it.

Lines do not back up at all. They cannot hold SB because you do not have a specific time to return, you have the whole hour and holding SB just in case someone may show up is not a good idea.

 

[mom2rtk]

Lines do not back up at all. They cannot hold SB because you do not have a specific time to return, you have the whole hour and holding SB just in case someone may show up is not a good idea.

I'm not sure why you feel the need to doubt the the experience of the PP. If they said they had to wait in FP lines, I believe them. Not everybody has the same experience you had.

 

[Tink_Or_Belle]

we used character meet time. splash and thunder were both down during our times and we were told we could not use them when the ride was back up

 

[g-dad66]

splash and thunder were both down during our times and we were told we could not use them when the ride was back up

Ack. That's bad news.

Thanks for letting us know, and sorry about your bad luck!

 

[KellyNY]

I'm not sure why you feel the need to doubt the the experience of the PP. If they said they had to wait in FP lines, I believe them. Not everybody has the same experience you had.

And I'm not sure why do you feel a need to try to provoke a fight. We do not discuss his experience anymore, we discuss why fp are this way and not that way, did you miss it. As for believing, what not to believe, he described wait after merging point, known fact. So maybe you should read my posts before you try to pick a fight.

 

[Waddler]

They cannot hold SB because you do not have a specific time to return, you have the whole hour and holding SB just in case someone may show up is not a good idea.

If no one is waiting in the FP line, they'd let standby people through.

Maybe I didn't explain my idea clearly. I just meant that they could reduce the amount of time that a FP user spends waiting in line by letting less people wait between the merge point and the loading zone. No queue construction necessary.

Take ToT. On my last visit (on a late January weekday), we used fastpasses when the standby time was posted at 20 minutes. The FP only allowed us to skip the portion of the standby line that was before the preshow (just a handful of people), and we still had a 15 minute wait in the boiler room. They could choose to reduce the length of the line in the boiler room. That way, fastpass users could walk into the next available preshow, and only have to wait a few minutes in the boiler room.

As it was, the fastpass wasn't much of an advantage to us.

 

[Waddler]

splash and thunder were both down during our times and we were told we could not use them when the ride was back up

Wow, how disappointing! Sure, you didn't pay to be part of the test, but you did agree to plan around it.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

That's the thing... there is no additional instantaneous or daily capacity for a given ride. Just a finite number of rider slots divvied up for standby, FP, or FP+ users. When you add FP and FP+ users, the number of standby rides per day has to decrease. No matter how many people are waiting in line, they can only squish so many riders onto the ride at once.

As long as they distribute fastpasses at a rate less than the ride's loading capacity, they wouldn't have to completely shut down the standby line. The exception to this would be when a slug of FP users return all at once, and then it would only temporary, and it would soon average out. If the FP line is backed up 15 minutes all day, then they're making people return 10-15 minutes too early. (Ooh! Real-life calculus application!)

I guess maybe I'm the only one that's bothered by the relatively long FP waits at Space Mountain, TSM, ToT (after the pre-show), to name a few. It just seems inefficient. We always go during slow times, so FP is pretty much useless for much of the day on these rides. It could easily be changed without physically reconfiguring the queues.

For example, on SM and TSM, they don't have to completely fill up the portion of the line between the merge point and the loading zone. Just hold the SB people at the merge point so the line past the merge point isn't filled to capacity. That way, FP users only wait behind a few SB riders. It's adjustable.

The FP waits for Winnie the Pooh, Peter Pan, BTMRR, Splash Mountain, and Buzz are always short, in my experience. I wish they would do this everywhere.

Before anyone tells me to chill out and enjoy my trip... I do. I just think that they could improve their system.

I'm thinking maybe there's something you're missing about FP in your analysis. Perhaps your error is assuming the point of FP is to eliminate waits for FP users. Disney does fp because it benefits Disney, not the other way around. If you rethink it from Disney's pov, then it might make more sense why they have internal waits for attractions. It is not remotely in Disney's interest to have all guests 'done' with all attractions by ten am.

Most times, I haven't waited very long - except Soarin'. That one always has a long wait, and I'm with you that they could most certainly do a better job limiting FP waits there. Then again, if I couldn't get a fp, I simply would not go on Soarin.

Perhaps one aspect is that you are using FP during peak times of the day. Try using them at a less popular time.

FP is a way to manage the queue. It's partly about giving guests an illusion of eliminating waits- when it's actually way to help Disney manage when guests will be in the parks.

Part of having the system tested now, probably has to do with simple practical reasons, like this is when they are ready for testing,(vs. planned roll out) not that this is the IDEAL time. But part of it probably also has to do with the idea of understnding more about guest behavior- what guests expect vs. what they actually do. In that sense, Septmeber is a great time.

Notice how many folks picked afternoon FP times. Notice how many people discovered that weather altered their plans.

This thread also confirms something I have long posted -most WDW guests underestimate the importance of WEATHER on their vacation plans. Too many guests will always ASSUME the weather will be ideal (or near ideal) when THEY pick a vacation date. It's human nature.

Fastpass, and fastpass plus are largely about turning those assumptions to Disney's advantage. It's just like so much other data collection going on these days. It's a lot like grocery store memberships. the store gives a small 'discount' in exchange for precise data on your shoppping habits. Guests think they are getting an extra perk, while in reality it's just data research. Ten cents off an inflated price of a box Rice Crispies is a FREE way for Disney to find out exactly when you thought you'd be in the parks.* Fastpass plus lets Disney pair who you are, with exactly where you were at certain times of day. Maybe most Pop Century guests are riding Dumbo at 10:15am, while BC guests mostly go on Soarin' at 10am. Maybe a 'dinner discount deal' will get the majority of AoA guests back to the resort on Tuesdays. Maybe GF guests plan on eating late.

* I intentionally mixed examples, but watch retail store prices and you'll all kinds of phony sales gimmicks.

 

[Waddler]

Guests wouldn't be "done" with a given attraction any sooner if they eliminated internal waits, they'd just return to the line a little later. They'd still ride at exactly the same time, and they'd have more time to buy stuff out in the park.

But... I do see your point that Disney may not care about minimizing internal waits. I think it could be done without sacrificing their own objectives, but they haven't bothered so far.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

If no one is waiting in the FP line, they'd let standby people through.

Maybe I didn't explain my idea clearly. I just meant that they could reduce the amount of time that a FP user spends waiting in line by letting less people wait between the merge point and the loading zone. No queue construction necessary.

Take ToT. On my last visit (on a late January weekday), we used fastpasses when the standby time was posted at 20 minutes. The FP only allowed us to skip the portion of the standby line that was before the preshow (just a handful of people), and we still had a 15 minute wait in the boiler room. They could choose to reduce the length of the line in the boiler room. That way, fastpass users could walk into the next available preshow, and only have to wait a few minutes in the boiler room.


As it was, the fastpass wasn't much of an advantage to us.

Why would Disney WANT to eliminate the post pre-show guest wait?

Here's another thing to consider...the next time you are at WDW, pay attention to how you spend your time. watch how long it takes your family to shower, eat, use the restroom, walk around your hotel....

Notice how many times Disney walkways are as long as possible.

notice how long it takes to walk form an attraction to the nearest restroom and back.

Notice how the condiment bar in so many QS places shows down guests.

In most cases, guests never notice allthe small ways that Disney has intentionally slowed them down.

the walkways are lovely, epspecially the ones on the permieter of LAKES. Notice how close to gether the All Star resorts actually are- but how far apart they appear to be. It's a trick of landscaping/driveway placement.

now pay attention to the actual length or attractions. Most are under 5minutes. RnRC is only 90 seconds.


When was the last time you minded putting condiments on your sandwich? But it's also a win-win for Disney. Notice how they give you a tiny plate so that you don't make a huge 'freebie' fixin's salad. the refillable mugs are also a great brainstorm.

I long ago noticed how THICK WDW shampoo is. Big companies think about all those details. Remember the slogan of the meat packer plant in the book The Jungle, "We use everthing but the oink." Big meat packers gaind the advantage over small butcher shops becsue they squeezed pennies out of the pig. they did so be using ALL the meat by-products. What used to be trash, quickly became jello, dog food, scrapple, etc.

If all DIsney resort guests are slowed down 30 seconds- times a million guess a day- in a way that the guests barely notices- then Disney benefits. SO LONG as the guests don't get annoyed. If Disney makes a long walkway pretty, Disney benefits.

Provide guests with a meaningless 'bag search' for their protection, even though there are no metal detectors, and no pocket searches, and Disney benefits. It's partlu abotu safety- it helps cut down on glass bottles and weapons probably - but it also conveniently slows guest entry.

You may as well ask, why doesn't Disney SPEED up the turnstyles?

 

[mickeyluv'r]

Incidentally, I'm not bashing you...I'm more playing devil's advocate.

I'm sure I've spent WAY too much time contemplating the very things you mention.

I also hope I don't sound paranoid.

dont you find it a bit creepy to know that merchants pay extra to have items placed on the eye level shelf at Walmart? Or that cameras watch where guests eyes go in convenience stores and how long they linger?

Let me see if I can find a link to that article...

Okay, this isn't the one I was thinking, but it serves the same gist.

http://www.retailcustomerexperience...l-security-cameras-tracking-customer-behavior

 

[Waddler]

Why would Disney WANT to eliminate the post pre-show guest wait?

So I can spend that time shopping or stuffing myself silly with a greasy turkey leg! mmm!

 

[Waddler]

Incidentally, I'm not bashing you...I'm more playing devil's advocate.

I'm sure I've spent WAY too much time contemplating the very things you mention.

I also hope I don't sound paranoid.
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No offense taken. Enjoyed reading your points, even if I disagree.

I totally agree with you on the potential creepiness of RFID tracking!

I find it amusing that they ask you to take your FP+ card out and wave it in front of the kiosk to gain entry to the FP line. Really, they could crank up the reader power a little and grab your RFID number from your pocket like "magic". Their current method makes you feel like you're participating!

Might explain why they're testing this during slow times.

 

[KellyNY]

If no one is waiting in the FP line, they'd let standby people through.

Maybe I didn't explain my idea clearly. I just meant that they could reduce the amount of time that a FP user spends waiting in line by letting less people wait between the merge point and the loading zone. No queue construction necessary.

Take ToT. On my last visit (on a late January weekday), we used fastpasses when the standby time was posted at 20 minutes. The FP only allowed us to skip the portion of the standby line that was before the preshow (just a handful of people), and we still had a 15 minute wait in the boiler room. They could choose to reduce the length of the line in the boiler room. That way, fastpass users could walk into the next available preshow, and only have to wait a few minutes in the boiler room.

As it was, the fastpass wasn't much of an advantage to us.

But it takes time to walk FP line. If nobody is waiting now does not mean FPer isn't just around the corner. As for preshows, people actually like them. It is a way to make last few minutes of line interactive and pleasant. Preshow is a part of attraction, I would not want to skip it.

 

[kaytieeldr]

So I can spend that time shopping or stuffing myself silly with a greasy turkey leg! mmm!

That's the primary point of FastPass. You get the FastPass, and while you're "waiting" for your return window, you go do other things. Visit another attraction. Eat a greasy turkey leg. Shop. Rest. Stroll. Meet & Greet a character.

Again, FastPass was never designed or intended for the guest to walk nonstop from the Greeter to the ride vehicle. That's not going to change. That only happens for guests on Wish trips - and that makes sense.