DH won't budge on this one

[Mishetta]

Hi Robin ~ you asked about the "Gazelle" test...

That was given to my son per our request through his pre-school. They have an independent teacher come in (who has not had an exposure to the children taking the test) & it's aproximately 45 minutes to one hour long where they test them on all sort of things. I vaguely remember but I know that they had him do certain things with blocks, finish drawing a stick person (they were looking for specific things with these activities), recite the alphabet, know colors, be able to count up to 10, they had to do some sequencing task, know certain shapes, hop on right foot, hop on left foot, jump with both feet, walk a line. There was a speaking part to this test too where they would ask him simple questions & see how he answered them. There were several different drills. Depending on how the child scores in this test, shows whether they are ready for Kindergarten or not. Unfortunately, my DS was NOT. You can request this test. Sometimes teachers suggest children take this test but it is not mandatory. It's all up to the parents.

I hope this all works out for you. I know your struggle right now. We lived it. If this is such a issue with your DH, then just send DS to Kindergarten. The teacher will be able to determine whether he's keeping up or socially ready for K. If not, they can then move him to a Pre-K program (Begindergarten, Early 5's), if that is offered where you live. I did mention in my last post that 2 boys were moved from Kindergarten into my son's Begindergarten class within a few weeks of school starting.

It's a tough job being a parent, isn't it? No degree in the world can prepare you for this! We all do the best we can. Lots of luck to you!

 

[Pembo]

I'm reading this thread with great interest as well. My ds will be 4 when he starts all-day kindergarten in Sept. (his b-day is 9/15). I guess my final decision came when I realized we can always take him out of kindergarten or have him repeat it BUT if we put him in preschool again and he's bored, I can't put him in kindergarten mid-year. Just my 2 cents.

 

[MerryPoppins]

If you don't think you'd have the option of putting him in Kindergarten again, I would REALLY think hard about this coming year. I have taught preschool, first grade and third grade. I have a BS in Elementary Education. Just because your husband was mature enough and did great at 4 doesn't mean squat. My brother went through Kindergarten at 4 and did great, too. That doesn't change the fact that some kids just aren't there. It also doesn't mean that your son isn't bright. Some kids just mature faster than others.

If I wasn't 90% sure he'd be okay, I'd push for holding him back. His teacher knows his behavior at school better than either you or your DH. Listen to what she is telling you. She wants school to be a positive experience that makes him feel good about himself, not something that he dreads. Starting school before you are ready has the potential to destroy self-worth. Lots of kids in that situation will act out, become emotional, or simply stop trying.

In my experience, schools are better equipt to challenge kids who are ahead than they are at dealing with kids who lag behind. I've experienced this as a teacher and a parent. When you have a room full of Kindergarten kids, it's not always easy to give as much attention to those younger kids as they need. Imagine being teacher/stand in mom to a whole classroom of little kiddos. It's not an easy job. I found it much easier to keep the ones that were ahead challenged. They didn't need the motivation as much as the ones who were developmentally young.

Again, in the long run he would probably be okay. I just think the gift of an extra year can be a wonderful thing. Not because he'll be taller and can do better in sports, but because he'll feel more ready to take on the world. Good luck making your decision.

 

[Rock'n Robin]

That's a good point Pembo, I never thought of that. I imagine I could request repeating if necessary.
DH reminded me of one thing this morning--DS was not completely potty-trained when he started preschool. He had an accident at the sitter's the DAY before he started. I was afraid he'd be sent home the first week since they don't let kids in who aren't potty trained. Even though all summer I'd been saying 'you can't go to school if you don't go on the potty," it hadn't sunk in with him.
After the first day of preschool when he saw the other little boys going in the potty, he never had another accident.
This is a little hope that he will be one of those who "blossoms" in K. I know Mrs. Nancy said he has lot of friends. The only complaint he ever has is one boy (who Mrs. Nancy says likes to do things behind people's backs) who takes his glasses away. But he tells me he just says "Wesley, I need those glasses to see!" and he gets them back. I hope he doesn't get bullied for being small--he's only a little over 42" now and my DDs were 44" by now--but he doesn't cry when kids do stuff, only when adults reprimand him.
One more thing--when I signed him up for his screening in June, I noticed other K students signed up with later BDays--some girls, some boys. Some in July, and one girl even 9/24! So he definately won't be the youngest. We'll see how he does in Safety Town in June.
Robin M.

 

[becka]

I am sorry that you are having to stuggle with this issue. I am afraid we will be struggling with the same issues in about 4 years since DS has a mid-May birthday.

One things that has shocked me about this thread is the number and type of skills kids are expected to know BEFORE they go to K. Shapes, colors, alphabet, sequencing, counting to 20, etc. BEFORE they go to school? What the heck are they actually teaching in K? Shakespeare and algebra!

I will surely be working with DS on these items but to expect every child going into K to have mastered all of these skills seems a bit too much!

 

[Bichon Barb]

Becka, what is your school's cut off date? Mid May for us would be the average age in a grade. I don't know if you are planning to send DS to pre-k, but they work on the shapes, colors, etc. in pre-k. Around here, people usually send their kids to a 3 year old program for two mornings a week and then a 4 year old program for three mornings a week.

Barb
PS: Cute new pic!

 

[Cindy B]

Originally posted by becka

One things that has shocked me about this thread is the number and type of skills kids are expected to know BEFORE they go to K. Shapes, colors, alphabet, sequencing, counting to 20, etc. BEFORE they go to school? What the heck are they actually teaching in K? Shakespeare and algebra!

All kidding aside, geometry was taught at my sons kindegarten class.. the types of triangles/degrees etc...



I asked why so much pressure, and we were told so many kids go to preschool/daycare situation where they have been taught that already, why not enhance the curriculum?

 

[becka]

I think the cut-off is August 1st around here. So he would be just a few months before the cut-off and I have been warned that often times the boys are just a little more immature than the girls and are more likely to be held back that year especially if they have a later birthday.

I know that they teach some of these things in pre-K and I know that DS will be attending some type of pre-school but not every child will have the best access to pre-schools and IMHO they should not expect every 5 year old to know all of that. K should be about learning skills needed to succeed in school (sitting still, raising your hand, etc.) and focusing on the basics like learning the alphabet and counting, etc. It seems like they expect kids to already have all of these skills before they set foot in a classroom.

 

[becka]

Originally posted by Cindy B
All kidding aside, geometry was taught at my sons kindegarten class.. the types of triangles/degrees etc...



I asked why so much pressure, and we were told so many kids go to preschool/daycare situation where they have been taught that already, why not enhance the curriculum?

Good grief...I know I was exaggerating with the algebra thing but a Kindergartener's only required geometry skills should be knowing basic shapes (square, circle, triangle, etc.). I cannot believe they expect a 5 year old to understand isoceles and right triangles. They may be able to regurgitate that every triangle has 180 degrees but there are very, very few 5-year olds that would have the ability to understand that concept. I was a math education major and I was putting together lesson plans on types of triangles for 5th graders not 5 year olds!

From what I hear about the school's today it seems that way too much focus is placed on regurgitation and not enough attention is paid to actually understanding concepts.

 

[Bichon Barb]

I agree on the pushing kids too hard issue. It's horrible in New York State. We have state testing in 4th grade and 8th grade. The kids spend 1st through 3rd just preparing for the 4th grade exams. It's a lot of pressure on the kids and the teachers. The results are posted in the papers, so it gets to be a competition between the schools and districts to see who does best.

Pre-K in NYS is free (although last I heard they were trying to cut that from the budget). Many daycare centers are licensed to teach pre-k. I forgot this isn't a national thing.

August 1st is an early cutoff. Our's is late (Dec 1st).

 

[disykat]

I need to find the research to quote, but I know that many studies have shown that early knowledge of things like the alphabet etc. proves nothing about long-range school success. Unfortunately some teachers and parents expect a homogenized group of kids - sorry it's just not realistic. The age advantage does disappear over the years and things even out. Unfortunately it is hard now for a child who just turned 5 in August to "compete" with children who turned 6 in April and May - they are over a year older!

In my experience kids do not know all the things listed above at that age. Don't believe what you hear - that is a best case scenario thing.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

This topic always interests me because my first two kids were summer birthdays. I sent the first one to school the year he turned 5 and held the second child back and started him when he was 6. Today when I look at the Kindergarten classes, it seems like well over 1/2 the class is already 6 when they start. So I don't know if our stories of "I started when I was _____ " are comparable because things have changed so much.

In my oldest son's case it was true that he did catch-up to all the rest of the children maturity wise around 3rd and 4th grade. This year I have started to worry about what might happen in High School however when he is a very young Freshman in the same building as Seniors. The worries never end.

With my 3rd child - who is only 2 months old right now so I have awhile - I plan to send him to a Montessori (Individually paced) type program through 1st grade.. and then I'll place him in Elementary school based on his skill set and maturity level then.

 

[Pin Wizard]

Originally posted by becka
One things that has shocked me about this thread is the number and type of skills kids are expected to know BEFORE they go to K. Shapes, colors, alphabet, sequencing, counting to 20, etc. BEFORE they go to school? What the heck are they actually teaching in K? Shakespeare and algebra!

I will surely be working with DS on these items but to expect every child going into K to have mastered all of these skills seems a bit too much!

These days they are taught that stuff in pre-K. DS lucked out when he was 4. His pre-K teacher was tired of teaching the upper grades and had the 4 YO's a few years. She told us in the beginning of the year that she teaches them a Kinder program! Those kids were counting to 100, and some of the older 4's came out reading books. She told me that Kinder would be a review for DS, and she was right. He flew through. DS is in a private school, and they were tested to see which section they would go in. They have 3 sections of Kindergarten. After his testing was done, I mentioned it to his pre-K teacher. She asked if he was in her class the week they drew a person. When she told me the week, I realized that he had been out with the chicken pox. She said...oh, that's a shame because that's when they learned to draw a neck on the person! She said the kinder will be looking for a neck on the person he drew for testing. When his test eventually came back to me a couple years later (when they cleaned out the kids office files), the neck wasn't there. That's okay...he had a GREAT teacher for Kindergarten.

 

[gepetto]

My son was 4 when he started Kindergarten. He's doing very well in 3rd grade.

 

[Patricia]

So many things to consider, so many opinions. I feel for you, I really do and I wish more than anything I could give you the crystal ball you are trying to look into. ISn't that the secret to parenting? We all want to see how our decisions today affect our children tomorrow. I could write a book here, both with the experiences of my own 3 children and the 12 years I have in the classroom~most of which is at the 7th and 8th grade level where, in my opinion, the "you know what" hits the fan with younger kids. Bottom line, you and your husband have to agree and you have to feel ok with it. It's a long road until adulthood with kids. You are just beginning the journey. Try not to stress and enjoy each and every day with your son. I am a firm believer in the "where are we all running to ?" theory. We start K early, we finish HS early, we finish college early, then we get a JOB early? I don't know about you, but that isn't all that appealing. Rush, rush, rush... My oldest is now 17 and is looking at colleges for the fall of 2004. I cannot believe it's almost over and I would give ANYTHING to get a year back with her. That's the other end of the spectrum, I know, but it's something to think about. God bless and best of luck with the decision! No matter what, it all works out.

 

[disykat]

I would love to hear from some parents who have 19 year old seniors in high school to hear their take on it.

 

[Mishetta]

We put our son in Begindergarten & he will be 18 when he graduates. So what? I'd rather him be 18 when he's going off to college instead of 17. (That is, if he goes to college! )

 

[disykat]

18 is the "normal" age to graduate - I'm curious about the 19 year olds. I'm not trying to be creepy, I really wonder how they feel.

 

[MerryPoppins]

My son's birthday is mid-summer. He'll turn 18 before he starts 12th grade, since we put him in Transition. So instead of having the last birthday in his class he has one of the first. I don't think he or his friends even think about it much. If anything, they seem to think it is cool that he will be able to drive this summer and they can't until sometime during the next school year. They are already asking if he'll give them rides.

 

[janette]

Originally posted by disykat
18 is the "normal" age to graduate - I'm curious about the 19 year olds. I'm not trying to be creepy, I really wonder how they feel.

My youngest DD is a grade behind the class she'd be in based on the cutoff. She has a summer birthday and will turn 18 before school starts but will be 18 when she graduates.

My oldest DD missed the cutoff by 25 days, she will be 18 for most of her senior year.

The age span in almost any class is 1 - 1 1/2 year, a few months doesn't make much difference.

The only hesitation I'd have is if for some reason the school wanted to retain them either of them. That would make them 19 for their senior year and I wouldn't be comfortable with that. I do have twin neices that started late and were retained, they are graduating from college this year at 24. It doesn't seem to have bothered them any but I think they are probably an exception.