Devious Thoughts about the new pass discounts.

[Dean]

If I were a person that routinely visited Orlando and WDW, but stayed off property, this new pass discount could really be a windfall. Lets say you own off site timeshares OR timeshares to trade in and normally go to WDW 2 or more weeks many years. You could buy as few as 25-50 DVC points resale and get access to the pass discounts. Lets say you knew about this issue up front so you put four different family members on the deed. All 4 would get a membership card and have a different address allowing for 8 passes PER ADDRESS as currently set up. I know they could change the rules but it's reasonable to assume a min of 8 passes per contract for at least several years.

Even if you never stayed at DVC, this could be a real benefit. And then you could use the few points you did have to get the equivalent of "day privileges. Say 12 points used for one night would get you 2 full days of pool hopping and "day use". Not to mention a place to relax and keep your stuff.

Price if you find a private seller and do things mostly yourself, around $3500 up front for 50 points and $225 or so per year, half that for 25 points. Well worth it for some situations, not for others. You could even rent out the points you own and then sell later and have it all for free. Or you could buy a contract, do an add on of 25 and sell the master.

I'm sure that some people will have a problem with this way of thinking but it's my nature to see a situation and then the ways to manipulate it. Unfortunately the issues rarely help me out. But assuming there's no cost to DVC to provide this perk outside the admin time they spend on it, there's essentially no loss for the "real" members.

 

[tjkraz]

Originally posted by Dean
I'm sure that some people will have a problem with this way of thinking but it's my nature to see a situation and then the ways to manipulate it.

If so, then I'll take a flaming with you, Dean. I had the exact same thought recently.

My guess is that Disney just accepts that some people will always find a way to mainpulate the system to suit their own needs. Trying to over-legislate a perk like this would just alienate a large percentage of the membership base, which just isn't worth the time an energy. Some would argue this is already true in light of the residency restrictions on the APs.

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by tjkraz
If so, then I'll take a flaming with you, Dean. I had the exact same thought recently.

My guess is that Disney just accepts that some people will always find a way to mainpulate the system to suit their own needs. Trying to over-legislate a perk like this would just alienate a large percentage of the membership base, which just isn't worth the time an energy. Some would argue this is already true in light of the residency restrictions on the APs.

There's no doubt Disney overlooks a lot. Whether it be over the occupancy, minor damages, selling partially used tickets or similar occurrences. I'm sure they have to pick their spots, just like any of us do with life. But this pass issue as currently worded, has a major amount of potential in this arena for anyone who is willing to play it. Heck, I am tempted to add multiple family members to one of my contracts just to give them the option. And I wonder if associate members will be allowed the benefit, they'd certainly be more reasonable recipients than in-laws, even if the in-laws live with the owner.

 

[DrTomorrow]

Add me to the "devious" list, gents. I'm a Software Engineer by training and temperment, so when I see a situation, I try to pick it apart and optimize it.

I think that this perk - like so many things in life - will fall under the "Law of Unintended Consequences". Yes, I think it will increase DVC time and money spent on-site; I also think it will increase the number of deed name additions and - in Dean's scenario - the number of smaller contracts purchased.

In fact, to expand on Dean's idea, there's now a new option for people who like deluxe accomidations now and then. Buy into DVC for 50 points (or whatever you need for 5 nights every other year) and enjoy that luxury trip - then use the APs to plan a trip or two per year outside of DVC - either at a cheaper off-site location, or using the AP discounts for an on-site Budget or Moderate. Assuming the new DVC AP break-even is around 6 days, it shouldn't be difficult to make it work financially. This way, an All-Star family gets DVC luxury every other year.

 

[jcodespoti]

Yes, these are all true, but what does disney care.

If you purchase a 50 point contract and throw 4 people on the deed. Then do what dean outlines, (see above) Disney still sells 4 AP to people, and gets them into the park to spend even more money. These passes would be sold to people who A)probably would not have bought AP's if not for the perk and B)They sold more DVC "points".

Since the Ap is not transferable I don't think Disney cares to much if people take advantage of the system, and some will. But in the end Disney generates money.

Joe in CT

 

[BillPA]

One way to minimize this would be to only allow this new perk to owners that have the minimin 150 point contract, and/or only to those who purchased from Disney, somewhat like Marriott and the resale limits they have in place.

This would have to be, day forward, and grandfather in any current owners no matter where the purchased or how many points..

 

[DVCcollector]

We just added my mom and dad to our title and they each live in different households LOL not for this purpose but it seems funny that this topic comes up after we had added them.

 

[OneMoreTry]

The sound of you all patting yourselves on the back is quite loud. By the time you have gotten all your APs they'll cancel the discount due to abuse of the perk and I won't have a chance to use it.

I think they should limit it to 1 discount per year per 25 points. But then someone would itch about that.

O well!

I didn't expect a discount to begin with. I'm still glad to be a member and think the discount is a great gesture from management toward members.

 

[littlestar]

I would think the more Annual passes they sell, the more they have you in their parks (not Universal, Seaworld, etc.). I would think this means more money all the way around for Disney.

Having the deal of an annual pass discount probably means we're going to squeeze another trip in (even if I book a moderate for a long weekend trip). I guess what I'm saying is that for that $100 discount on an annual pass, I would think Disney stands to get more than that back.

I see it as win, win for Disney. You get more people hooked on an annual pass and it becomes a necessity for them every year. For the 1st time ever, we are buying annual passes. I would have loved to have bought more of them for birthday gifts, etc., for my kids/son-in-law but they don't all live with us. They use our points every year though!

I thought of this very thing that Dean mentioned - someone buying a small contract for the discounts. But, you know what happens after you buy the minimum DVC points, you usually want more (grin).

Interesting thread, Dean.

 

[Pa@okw95]

I must say that everyone seems to be looking at this AP situation as if WDW is giving us a gift, it is a discount, and discounts are designed to get people to buy or in this case buy and get into the parks to spend more. Does anyone out there think that the 100 saved will not be spent in the parks plus more. WDW could care less whether you have 2 points or 2 thousand points you are a spending customer in their parks. Why do you think they gave us the discount? Because they needed to get us to go to the parks, a lot of us were not doing that. Please stop thanking WDW for this discount and wake up. WDW is a business not a charity. My guess there are about 85,000 members which probably means about at least a 1/4 million people that this perk could touch. A lot of those 1/4 million people will jump all over this-big bucks for WDW.

 

[Beca]

Originally posted by DVCcollector
We just added my mom and dad to our title and they each live in different households LOL not for this purpose but it seems funny that this topic comes up after we had added them.

How did you do this? Just curious...we may want to add our dd to ours.



Beca

 

[LIFERBABE]

I agree, that someone could purchase a 25 pt. contract and reap all the benefits of DVC. One of the reasons we purchased our add-on points in 50 point increments. Easier to sell if we ever need to liquidate.

As far as adding someone to the contract,
An associate member is like an authorized user, they are not financially responsible for the contract and they don't receive a blue membership card.

Adding someone to the deed, also makes them financially responsible. This could cut both ways. If they ever file bankruptcy, they would have to disclose their DVC holdings to the court and they could be forced to sell their ownership to satisfy debt. I just think that is too risky. The Suze Orman in me says HECK NO! LOL

$100 is a nice discount, and believe me, I have plenty of friends and family that live in Orlando and I could have easily become a Florida resident. But what happens when you are called for Jury Duty or voting? Not to mention an IRS audit or state taxes. The risk far outweigh the benefits, so maybe that is what DVC is counting on the "what if" honor system.

Good thought and Good Luck!

 

[DVC Grandpa]

For those who were wondering, Associate Members are not entitled to Member discounts according to Disney. Associate Members do not have a member’s card (legally) this is what I have been told by Member Services.

 

[InstImpres]

My guide confirmed associates if not at the same address are not entitled to the discount.

One thought I honestly had, is changing the address on one of my contracts. Not sure if I am ok with it or not, but if I were 2 seperate owners, then there would be multiple pass discounts. I bought extra DVC to share, we did not worry about how it was deeded but my family does "pay as they go" so I feel bad they can't get the discount.

JMHO
Sandy

 

[msdis]

Originally posted by Pa@okw95
I must say that everyone seems to be looking at this AP situation as if WDW is giving us a gift, it is a discount, and discounts are designed to get people to buy or in this case buy and get into the parks to spend more. Does anyone out there think that the 100 saved will not be spent in the parks plus more. WDW could care less whether you have 2 points or 2 thousand points you are a spending customer in their parks. Why do you think they gave us the discount? Because they needed to get us to go to the parks, a lot of us were not doing that. Please stop thanking WDW for this discount and wake up. WDW is a business not a charity. My guess there are about 85,000 members which probably means about at least a 1/4 million people that this perk could touch. A lot of those 1/4 million people will jump all over this-big bucks for WDW.

It's not a prorated discount. Law of average it all works out in the end. We have only 2 on our membership and 2 in our faimily and twice the 150 minimum points. Therefore 2 families of 4 (8) could end up with the same benefit as us. It all averages out.

 

[ralphd]

Disney's potential reaction to anything they consider 'taking advantage of the system' is spelled out:

Is there an expiration date for taking advantage of this Member Perk?
All Member Perks are incidental and subject to change or termination at anytime (refer to your Member Benefits Guidebook). All offers are evaluated on an on-going basis.

The perk will go poof and............. I could not blame them.

ralphd

 

[Dean]

Originally posted by OneMoreTry
The sound of you all patting yourselves on the back is quite loud. By the time you have gotten all your APs they'll cancel the discount due to abuse of the perk and I won't have a chance to use it.

I think they should limit it to 1 discount per year per 25 points. But then someone would itch about that.

O well!

I didn't expect a discount to begin with. I'm still glad to be a member and think the discount is a great gesture from management toward members.

I wouldn't mind if they limited it either, frankly it really wouldn't affect me either way. But do you really think whether we talk about it or not will affect the outcome. If so, you're really gonna love this one. How about doing add ons of 25 points to resell, just for this perk.

 

[GrimGhost]

Can I use my discount to buy a Pass for someone other than myself or immediate family residing in the same household?
No. This discount is exclusive for Members and may not be transferred.

NOTE:


This perk may be revoked in the event of abuse.

 

[Zurg]

ROFLOL

Stirring up the pot, eh Dean?

 

[Beca]

Originally posted by Dean
But do you really think whether we talk about it or not will affect the outcome.

Sometimes people on these boards get really upset when we talk about loopholes. We are not USING them...we are talking about them. If they truly are "exploitable", I am much more concerned about those who rent their points as "stays" on ebay. We think we have it ALL figured out, but there are people who have MUCH more figured out than us.

It's not the people on the dis who are talking about it that are giving Disney concern, either. I expect that our pass priviledges might be revoked, or severly limited if the same seller(s) that sell vacations on ebay also start selling annual passes at discounted rates. I have to admit...even I will be "furious" at that!!

I think the bottom line is this...Disney wants it members to have more perks. I actually don't think an extra person here or there who is getting a pass is going to upset Disney in any way, shape or form (and, as I say this...I have NO ONE who will be getting a pass "illegally"...my only dd is 2, and my mom and stepdad are members, too). But, I think individuals who find some "loophole" to buying more AP's and sell them on ebay might cause DVC to re-think its policy...and, if (when) that happens...they probably should try to close those loopholes. I hope they don't take the discount away, but rather modify it, or place additional restrictions upon its use (like, adults have to present it AND their blue DVC card each time they enter a park...just an idea).

I was SHOCKED to learn of what people are doing with points they have "transferred" into their accounts (this from a friend who transferred to one of these people). The things that this person is doing with points is SOO much more complicated than anything they could've learned from these boards...it is just this man's devious mind that enabled him to come up with this "scheme". It made me VERY cautious when I transferred points into someone else's account. I wanted to know I was not getting someone like that. I asked a lot of questions. I just do not agree with what he is doing (even though there is nothing "illegal" in it...I just don't like it).

I still say...we're not teaching the "criminals" anything. But, after wrapping my brain around the what one particular person is doing...well, let me just say I have a MUCH greater understanding of what my points can and can't do. Our speculation here is not going to "give" ideas unscrupulous people that they do not already have....their minds are LONG ahead of us!!

However, I do know that DVC personnel read these boards. Our speculation might help stop some of the abuse before it starts. Which might help us to keep this benefit longer. I'm definitely all for that!!!



Beca