Development Opinions in Schools

[DisneyFan06]

Personal, Social, and Emotional Development

Question: Some prominent thinkers believe that schools’ concerns for children’s self-concepts and their self-esteem are misplaced, and the business of the school is to teach knowledge and cognitive skills. What is your position regarding this issue? ​

 

[Aidensmom]

I think it is the parent's job to teach self-concept and self-confidence (which lead to good self esteem), though a teacher should interact with students in a positive way (as opposed to yelling at students or verbally abusing them). It is the school's job to teach knowledge in cognitive skills. I do believe that socialization skills should be a part of kindergarten curriculum, as the classroom type of situation in which socialization is necessary just isn't able to be simulated at home.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Well, many of you know that I have some very major problems with our educational system today.

I have to say that having the school teach my little precious how wonderful he is has never crossed my mind!!!!

I have seen one teacher who is really big on this... She is completely 'it takes a village'. I can tell you without a doubt that this whole premise is a big front for her to take control, as a teacher is a huge part of the village. She is, without any doubt, a control freak.

We should all realize that the more we delegate to the schools, the more control we give up as parents.

 

[Cool-Beans]

I think that if the schools would do a good job educating the students, then both the schools and the students would have something to be proud of! Being proud of yourself can do wonders for "self-esteem."

 

[California Girl]

In an ideal world school should teach knowledge and cognitive skills. Manners, respect, those non academics should be left to the parents. In reality, those skills are not being taught at home in a lot of cases, so it falls upon the schools to teach those things.

For example, our school has adopted a code of ethics. It is discussed on all levels. It includes responsibility, respect, perserverance, courtesy, loyalty, compassion, fairness, kindness, honesty and courage. The board went so far as to give examples of each.

At first my feelings were this isn't the school's job, and yet when I see the way some of the parents treat each other and their kids, I realize that they've never seen respect, so where else will they get it.

When I was young, most of the kids in my class went to church. Now, few do, so they don't really know how to act in an assembled setting such as that other than perhaps a movie theater, and that's hardly comparable. So when they have an assembly in school, they don't know how to behave respectfully to a speaker unless the school teaches that.

There was a thread recently about foul language and sayings on tee shirts, and yet I see parents wearing them as much as teens, and I cringe thinking about the children of those who wonder why a shirt that their parents bought them is inappropriate in a school setting. They think it's funny.

I disagree that teachers shouldn't raise their voices to students. Verbal abuse and yelling are two totally different things. If a student is acting in a way that is dangerous or just plain stupid, the teacher should yell, whether that kid is 5 or 18. That's life. Sometimes you need to get their attention.

I knew a kid whose guidance counselor told him he would never get into a certain college. He applied and was accepted, went in and showed her the acceptance letter just for the enjoyment of it. Did he take everything she said to heart? NO. It just made him more determined to prove her wrong. He couldn't afford to go to school there and ended up becoming an architect through another college, but my point is, we act like any time someone says something remotely negative, the kids will be scarred for life, and that's just not the case. A steady diet of negativity will break a kid down, I understand that, but if we really are to prepare kids for real life, we can't isolate them from everything bad or harsh or evil or upsetting, they'll not be able to face difficulties later on.

I truly believe that self esteem comes from the parents. I don't remember ever being told anything in school by any teacher I ever had that changed my self image or my belief system. Maybe that's just me.....I really think a lot of people give the school too much credit for influencing their children. They spend maybe 7-8 hours a day 180 days a year. Where are they the rest of the time? Maybe TV is a bigger influence. Certainly at the middle school and high school levels, friends are the biggest influence.

 

[golfgal]

I don't think self-esteem can be taught to anyone. That is something you DEVELOP over time by accomplishing tasks on your own. When a baby learns to sit up, they develop more self-confidence, if you prop a baby up on pillow, it doesn't really change how they feel about the world. Same thing applies to every aspect of life. A child will become MUCH more self confident and have much more self-esteem if they try really hard to do something and do well on the project or whatever vs having mom/dad/teacher help them along the way, help in a too much help kind of way, not answering questions asked by the child.

 

[barkley]

i have a problem with what i believe are misguided efforts many schools do regarding self esteem-in particular what seems to be the popular practice of rewarding every effort with certificates, stickers, 'student of the months', everyone gets a trophy just for participating and the like-while these (esp. with younger kids) can be used as initial motivational 'rewards' i believe children need to learn that learning and mastering a skill is it's own reward. when children grow and enter the work place and society they will not find that they are acclaimed or given special status for doing exactly what is expected of every other self supporting functional member of society-so i think in some ways it sets them up to have unrealistic expectations.

i encountered a good number of people in the workplace that had been educated after the whole 'self esteem' push in the public schools came about and by and large they had a hard time accepting constructive criticism. they often expressed that they felt that by virtue of 'just trying' (vs. actualy succeeding in completing a necessary task) they should not be faulted and were genuinly surprised when they were not given recognitions (pay raises, promotional opportunities) commensurate those their very successful coworkers received. while some employers (mine included) offer intensive training and staff development, simply 'trying' and not being able to master/execute necessary work functions are not condusive to buisness operations and we could'nt retain these folks. it was always a genuine shock to them and i have to believe it was somehow based on their previous educational experiences.

i think socialization skills can be well taught in the schools, and i think it's good for children to learn how to interact in different settings-but that does'nt exempt parents from teaching/modeling the same concepts at home, in familial relationships and in venues they are with their children in.

i think schools/teachers have allot of their 'plates' regarding what everyone thinks their curriculum should include-some parents feel teachers should be aware of every nuance of every student's personality, home issues, challenges/strengths and take that into consideration when educating them. with expectations like that, class sizes upwards of 30 or more kids in a classroom and still the standard 3r's PLUS i'm amazed and impressed when teachers manage to get the basics done in a single class year-yet alone any non academic curriculum.

 

[California Girl]

Well, many of you know that I have some very major problems with our educational system today.

I have to say that having the school teach my little precious how wonderful he is has never crossed my mind!!!!

I have seen one teacher who is really big on this... She is completely 'it takes a village'. I can tell you without a doubt that this whole premise is a big front for her to take control, as a teacher is a huge part of the village. She is, without any doubt, a control freak.

We should all realize that the more we delegate to the schools, the more control we give up as parents.

Many parents have already happily given control of their kids, and they are even in your son's classes.

This is so typical of your posts. How can you possibly know the motives of this teacher? Part of being a teacher involves being controlling. Most teachers have to control a class of 20+ kids. Do you want a teacher who isn't in control. Or perhaps you'd like the kids to be in charge (Lord of the Flies). Reading most of your posts, I would suggest that YOU are a control freak....

 

[DisneyFan06]

What a great discussion!

 

[disykat]

I don't think you can teach a child without having concern for their their self concept. That doesn't mean you have to teach it. It means you make your classroom a place where people respect each other. Expecting basic manners and respect is key, IMO, to having a well run classroom where students will be able to learn.

I do think some people have a very misguided way of fostering a good self concept. Rewards? The reality is that teaching children to feel good about their achievements without extrinsic reward is what leads to a good self concept. I also think many people (especially some parents) think that discipline hurts self esteem.

Citizenship, Deportment, Behavior, whatever you want to call it - has been part of classrooms forever. Encouraging children to find their strengths and work around their weaknesses - also around forever.

I think you do have to look at the whole child. However, that doesn't mean excusing poor behavior, rewarding every achievement, or tossing around a bunch of new age terms.

 

[VampHeartless]

The fact that most parent's don't bother to teach their kids, makes this a requirement on the teacher's behalf.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I do not wish to derail this thread, as there have been many excellent responses!!!

I do agree that 'self esteem' is completely different than things like courtesy, respect, etc... These are completely different concepts altogether! I doubt that you would find many, if any, parents complaining about things like courtesy and respect. The topic of this thread was not about any of these other issues at all. It was about 'self esteem'.

I will give a quick answer to California Girl. I expected this kind of a personal jab. Nobody ever said anything about a teacher not having adequate control in the classroom. Nope, I have never ever said anything to that effect. But, yes, this teacher is a very clear and obvious control freak. To the point of counting the pencils in the childs pencil box and determining that there are too many pencils. She has used the 'it takes a village' viewpoint to support her view that as a teacher she can have more than a reasonable amount of control over parents. Giving them detailed tasks and assignments and looking over their shoulder to make sure they do everything that is expected, or the child will 'get their name moved'.

 

[Wishing on a star]

The fact that most parent's don't bother to teach their kids, makes this a requirement on the teacher's behalf.

Ummm, I thought that 'teaching kids' was what teachers and school was all about.

 

[Bob Slydell]

The fact that most parent's don't bother to teach their kids, makes this a requirement on the teacher's behalf.

Most parents?? Painting with a pretty broad brush, aren't we?

 

[California Girl]

I do not wish to derail this thread, as there have been many excellent responses!!!

I do agree that 'self esteem' is completely different than things like courtesy, respect, etc... These are completely different concepts altogether! I doubt that you would find many, if any, parents complaining about things like courtesy and respect. The topic of this thread was not about any of these other issues at all. It was about 'self esteem'.

I will give a quick answer to California Girl. I expected this kind of a personal jab. Nobody ever said anything about a teacher not having adequate control in the classroom. Nope, I have never ever said anything to that effect. But, yes, this teacher is a very clear and obvious control freak. To the point of counting the pencils in the childs pencil box and determining that there are too many pencils. She has used the 'it takes a village' viewpoint to support her view that as a teacher she can have more than a reasonable amount of control over parents. Giving them detailed tasks and assignments and looking over their shoulder to make sure they do everything that is expected, or the child will 'get their name moved'.

Whatever 'getting their name moved means'????

So you don't believe that a teacher can give you instructions on how best to help your son? I assume this is a teacher your son has had. The teacher is trying her best in the way she knows best to do her best in teaching the children. If that means helping a student be organized, ie, you have too many pencils in your box, that makes her a bad teacher? Has she harmed the kids? Is giving parents detailed tasks and assignments and looking over their shoulder(s) to make sure they do everything that is expected...harming the children? You want to take to task public education at every opportunity, but you want it all on your terms. Educate my child but do it exactly as I say in exactly the way that is most convenient for me, and when he doesn't succeed, it's the school's fault. You are a walking, talking contradiction....

 

[CEDmom]

By virtue of teaching various subjects in a way kids can understand and retain will build their confidence.

 

[FreshTressa]

I think that if the schools would do a good job educating the students, then both the schools and the students would have something to be proud of! Being proud of yourself can do wonders for "self-esteem."

Well said!

Though they should step in in bully situations and in ones where they think the child is being abused.

 

[disykat]

IMO, it's ALL about manners, courtesy, getting along, respecting each other's differences. That IS where self esteem comes from - feeling like you fit it, like you have an important job to do, like people like you, like you are successful, like you have a place and a role in society and you are respected for that role. I don't think you can separate it out and say "teach children well but don't get into self esteem". Successful children will have self esteem. They go together.

Honestly, I can't see any good teacher not caring about a student's self esteem. Usually it's just not an issue that comes up separately, it's built into everything we do.

If a parent came to me and said "Johnny feels like a failure, like no one likes him, like he has no purpose in your room and he might as well stay home" should I just say "to heck with that self esteem stuff, that's your job"?

Self-esteem isn't taught, it's fostered by helping the child be successful in his environment - and not just academically.

 

[California Girl]

Something I learned in school....there is a rat in separate.

 

[paigevz]

What we should do, in my opinion, is educate the child. Studies do show that children who have worries, be they social, academic, familial, basic needs-related or whatever, do not retain information as well. It is part of education to help students do their best.........therefore, it falls under the umbrella to help with their worries. To me, good self-esteem comes from feeling comfortable with yourself in all aspects........feeling comfortable comes from minimizing worries. Stickers don't minimize worries, neither do ribbons or trophies. Someone listening to you, trying to help eliminate the worries or at least help you find ways to deal with them is bound to make you feel like you're worth SOMETHING, at least to that person. Then you will feel a bit better about yourself, and you can concentrate a bit more on your math.........especially if the person showing you the math is the same person who helps you out when you need them to.

Besides, I can't stand to see a kid who doesn't know that they are a great kid!