Depressing.

[Buckalew11]

A previous poster said becoming upset over paint chips is a little extreme- however-what I loved about Disney was that attention to detail. Please note the past tense. I loved looking at the Boardwalk and seeing each light lit. Now- there are often burnt out lights. That is what Disney was renowned for- the attention to details. And like Pakey, I lament that that attention to detail is disappearing.
Will it stop me from going to Disney- No. Will I sell my DVC- No. It just makes me a little sad.

I think what bothers a lot of people is knowing how Walt Disney was about attention to detail. There are many things nowadays that he'd be grieved about and that is tough to swallow.

You know, there is a real opportunity for the Swan/Dolphin to swoop in and be known as the place to go for a really nice dinner. If Disney's not willing to provide a great meal, someone else should.

The Swan and the Dolphin have so many positives; they are very clean, beautiful, comfortable. The service is excellent all over the resorts from top to bottom. Their food is wonderful and the ice cream is the best on property IMHO. Love Beaches and Cream but I'd rather have it from the Dolphin!

 

[handinpocket]

Since you are quoting me and criticising my nitpicking, I will ask you this:

If you are used to watching television on a 60" screen and then you come home and you've got a 19" screen in it's place, would you notice? I'm not saying I go around looking for paint chipping. But I was so blown away when staying at GF and seeing the maintenance crews out every morning with their paint cans that it's hard to forget it. I go to GF every vacation to eat and maybe they have looked bad for years, but this time I noticed it and I remembered those guys with the paint cans.

My first visit to WDW was in 1976 and I was an adult then too. For many years now, my husband and I have gone for the golf, hanging out at the pool/resort and the food. I don't think I have to be classified as an uber picky person by saying that I've seen a decline.

I understand everything you are saying. I have been a loyal patron of WDW since they opened their doors. We love to eat, we love food. I hate that they have "dumbed down" their ethnic food. We used to love, love, LOVE the Akershush. It was authentic Norwegian food in buffet style! Best thing on the planet, I'm still peed it is gone for princesses....grrrr.

 

[ZachnElli]

My wife and I have travelled all over the world. Dining has never been the priority. If we want to have a really good meal, we can make it at home. The purpose of a vacation is to have a good time and possibly do/see something new.

That being said, I can't think of a single time that I have been disappointed with the food at WDW. I guess the closest was with the buffet at Trail's End, but truthfully, the food was fine. I simply wasn't in the mood for it.

I'm sorry I just have to ask, ALL over the world and dining isn't a priority? So you've been to Italy and you didn't care if you tried the cheese, wines, pastas, sauces and gelato? You've been to France and the same thing, no wine, cheese or croissant? Heck, I've gone to NYC for a weekend and I wanted to try the pizza! I'm finding "all over the world and dining not a priority" hard to believe. As for WDW, we've noticed a decline in quality and quite a raise in prices (not a fan of the plan). So we still go, but stay offsite and eat cheaper and better food offsite and don't feel I'm sacrificing our retirement when we get the bill!

 

[GeorgeG]

Another WDW "old-timer" checking in (first visit in the late 70's). With respect
to the quality of food--I don't think the intention orignally was providing great meals at WDW, but only to lure the guests to stay on property to eat something. It didn't have to be great, just somethig a little better than what one might expect at a theme park. Reasonable food, reasonable prices.

Then the word got out that the food at WDW was WAY beyond what most amusement parks offered, and over time, it began to become a destination for not only great rides and entertainment, but also for a pretty darned good meal. Now some above average-to-great food was becoming the norm at WDW and dining became a bigger priority at WDW. During this time the beginning of guide books rating restaurants, and later, the internet became the sources for WDW info.

Then with 9/11, all bets were off. The company had to do whatever it had to do to attract visitors. This is when creative marketing came into play and "deals" and packages were created to attract the people who always wanted to go to WDW, but thought it was too expensive. In focus groups, people who weren't WDW regulars never thought that food was a priority (beyond hamburgers, hot dogs, etc) were interested in a WDW vacation.

So the suits stood up in the presentation and stated that they could expect X% growth during the next year based on people willing to spend $x in an economy where people might be afraid to travel and were scaling back their vacation budgets. Eureka! The suits were absolutely spot-on in their predictions. People weren't coming for fine dining, they were coming for rides and an escape from reality--problem solved.

I don't think WDW was originally desgned for people to come back over and over again. It was a once in a lifetime experience for anyone who lived more than a few hours drive from the property. All that changed when the experience became so addictive that people wanted to return year after year and would even spend mega bucks to purchase time shares on property (DVC). I don't know that they ever considered that the Disney mojo was so strong that people might actually want to live nearby (Celebration).

I think what we see today is an amalgamation of what was considered in the late 60's, what developed during the 70's and 80's, and how they had to adjust in the 90's and the 2K's. Those goals/projections/expectations don't always match up.

I could buy into that logic... really I could, if the hot dogs and burgers were worth more than a quarter. I could be happy with just counter service if the food was decent quality. The table service getting $12.00 + for a burger is even okay if it was a burger I could have fond memories of. What they now serve might be worth $6.00 on a good day.

I didn't want this thread to be all about food. This is the wrong board for that. I was hoping to get some input about the general decline overall, but it seems food if such a bigger issue. Like I said, the counter service restaurants have almost no lines so I wouldn't mind eating at them if the food wasn't such crap. It's like Disney thinks we're all stupid.

 

[FireDancer]

I think what bothers a lot of people is knowing how Walt Disney was about attention to detail. There are many things nowadays that he'd be grieved about and that is tough to swallow.

I don't buy into the whole what would Walt think thing for two reasons:

1. He would be about to turn 109. If Walt still had all of his marbles he would probably no longer think a lot about what were once his parks. In reality the chances are he would usually think where the heck am I and what is that in my pants. I wonder at what age people will figure that even without cancer Walt would be dead and he wouldn't be thinking anything about what was once his company. In 20 years will people still wonder what Walt would think if he magically lived to be almost 130?
2. The Walt Disney Company of Walt's time and the current company are not the same. It is now a huge media conglomerate and no one really knows what Walt would do in this situation. Remember, he wouldn't even be the biggest shareholder, that is Steve Jobs. I think Walt would have sold his shares a long time ago, long before he reached his 3rd century of life.

 

[DawnCt1]

I don't buy into the whole what would Walt think thing for two reasons:

1. He would be about to turn 109. If Walt still had all of his marbles he would probably no longer think a lot about what were once his parks. In reality the chances are he would usually think where the heck am I and what is that in my pants. I wonder at what age people will figure that even without cancer Walt would be dead and he wouldn't be thinking anything about what was once his company. In 20 years will people still wonder what Walt would think if he magically lived to be almost 130?
2. The Walt Disney Company of Walt's time and the current company are not the same. It is now a huge media conglomerate and no one really knows what Walt would do in this situation. Remember, he wouldn't even be the biggest shareholder, that is Steve Jobs.

Actually Fire Dancer, when people say, "if Walt was here", they mean it figuratively in terms of what kind of park would he have run. He would have run a park which would delight RETURN visitors year after year with a focus on value, bang for the buck and quality. No one really envisions a 130 year old codger being wheeling down Main St, but you knew that, didn't you.

 

[cluvsdisney]

I wish I could be like that. for me my vacation is a sum of many parts. While I don't go to Disney specifically for the food, I do have to be there for 9 nights and on any vacation I would like to have food that is at least as good as the stuff I make at home. Sorry, Tony Town square is pretty blaise as far as Italian food goes. I can make my own non descript sauce, why would I want to eat out and get it?

So no I'm not concentrating on restaurants as a focal point but at the end of a long day of park touring, I want food that is more than "some thing" to fill me up. For me granola bars could fill a basic need. I'm a pretty sensory person. quality means a lot. If I stay on site, a shabby room is upsetting. so the argument "I just sleep there, I'm not in there a lot" wouldn't work for me.
Same argument for the rides. I don't go to disney for the rides specifically because let's face it, if you're into thrill rides Disney is not the best at that and the other attractions are becoming ridiculously hard to even get on unless you have a strategy worthy of the d-day invasion.

rides+resort+restaurants= a fabulous vacation, so if one part of the cog is missing it takes away from my overall enjoyment. Nothing worse imo than going out to dinner and coming home with the "eh, that was ok". Just like if I went to disney and it rained every day. all these things can effect a vacation.

While I too take reviews with a grain of salt, I also look at the severity and the frequency of a particular review. When I hear 75% of people claim the best thing about a steakhouse is the Cheddar soup, yet that same steakhouse charges $35 bucks for it's rib eye or strip steak, that says a lot to me. once again why go to a steak house if the steak is going to be non descript.

So yeah, I guess at 32 dollars a pop, I want just a tad bit more than "decent" or "edible"
Pretty much why the last 2 trips out of the 9 night stay, we ate dinner on site maybe 3 nights. for the same amount of money we were able to rent a car and have waaay better quality meals.

I agree with this post. When we are on vacation we want to have enjoyable meals and not just get by. We were there last week and while we did receive terrific service, two of our meals were just about inedible. And I think it's pretty sad that the waaay better meals can be had at Chilis.

I could buy into that logic... really I could, if the hot dogs and burgers were worth more than a quarter. I could be happy with just counter service if the food was decent quality. The table service getting $12.00 + for a burger is even okay if it was a burger I could have fond memories of. What they now serve might be worth $6.00 on a good day.

I didn't want this thread to be all about food. This is the wrong board for that. I was hoping to get some input about the general decline overall, but it seems food if such a bigger issue. Like I said, the counter service restaurants have almost no lines so I wouldn't mind eating at them if the food wasn't such crap. It's like Disney thinks we're all stupid.

You mentioned the restaurant forum in your original post which is probably why this thread focused on dining. You are 100% right about something so simple as a burger!

I agree with you about the general decline in extras that Disney used as a marketing tool to stand apart from other theme parks or family vacation destinations. Magic. That's slowly going away.

Fantasmic is offered a couple of nights a week instead of every night. How many evening hours in MK are lost to people that don't pony up for the Halloween and Christmas parties? I can't recall all the changes I read about - there's lights that were discontinued at EPCOT during the holidays, a lighting ceremony or something at the Poly. Things like that - they add to the magic but unfortunately take away from the bottom line so they had to go.

As mentioned by another poster, the attention to detail has diminished. A lot of things are worn looking. I was kind of surprised that Tea Cups & It's a Small World were closed at the same time as the revamp of Toon Town. It seems like that could have been planned better.

I also think their online systems are atrocious. They upgraded their dining software and now you can't locate your ADRs online? I cannot think of one major company that does not provide a toll free number for customers.

I shake my head every time I read about how not all CMs know what they are talking about and that calling the front desk is really calling some guy at some remote location and shouldn't be expected to respond to a complaint. This shouldn't be acceptable.

 

[onelilspark]

I didn't have any big problems on our trip (except for Jiko, but that's another story.) What we did notice is that at many of the restaurants the waiters/waitresses were the ones clearing the tables, etc. So instead of having those bussers to help, they were cleaning up and it really slowed them down. In many cases we could see our waiters/waitresses working their butts off and running around, but service was slow. I don't blame them, but it was noticeable and I am writing to Disney about it.

 

[Buckalew11]

Actually Fire Dancer, when people say, "if Walt was here", they mean it figuratively in terms of what kind of park would he have run. He would have run a park which would delight RETURN visitors year after year with a focus on value, bang for the buck and quality. No one really envisions a 130 year old codger being wheeling down Main St, but you knew that, didn't you.

Thanks Dawn, you said it way better than I could.

Frank, I'm disappointed.

 

[FINFAN]

I did not read all the responses but my wish is more about variety than quality..many posted similar. I know it has to be cost effective, and kid friendly, but when WDW is trying to get folks to stay for 5 or more days, the really need to offer enough meals varieties to support a stay that long. Hamburgers, pizza, pasta, chicken, I know they are easy and quick, I realize the challenges involved, but stuff all started to taste the same to me after a few days...matter of fact, food choices have now fallen to the least exciting part I think of when planning a trip, pretty much stay with CS now and one or 2 TS dinners. I really enjoy WS tho, to see if anything gets added there to try something different, and we enjoy the Boardwalk and Dolphin offerings as well.
One meal we really enjoyed was 1900 Park Fare breakfast, I would say service was really good, not exceptional, but it is a character breakfast, for the situation I think it was run quite smoothly, great selection of food and nice but not too stuffy atmosphere and character interaction was so much fun. We do not do teh DP anymore as we feel we are catering ot the schedule of our ADR's, so maybe by only having 1 or 2 special meals each trip we enjoy them more? I can't wait to try the new places in Fantasyland...Gaston's looks like a hoot!

 

[snapppyd]

Actually Fire Dancer, when people say, "if Walt was here", they mean it figuratively in terms of what kind of park would he have run. He would have run a park which would delight RETURN visitors year after year with a focus on value, bang for the buck and quality. No one really envisions a 130 year old codger being wheeling down Main St, but you knew that, didn't you.

I have to agree with you here!

 

[Acklander]

Actually Fire Dancer, when people say, "if Walt was here", they mean it figuratively in terms of what kind of park would he have run. He would have run a park which would delight RETURN visitors year after year with a focus on value, bang for the buck and quality. No one really envisions a 130 year old codger being wheeling down Main St, but you knew that, didn't you.

I'm sure Fire Dancer knew what they meant, but I also understand what Fire Dancer means as well.
Disney has changed because the times have changed. If Walt was here, he would have had to change as well, or else he would have gone bankrupt.

 

[Cee]

I don't think I have a very sophisticated palate, so all the food tastes great to me!

 

[DWGal210]

Disney is in business to make money. So, if they want to stay in business, they will change if their numbers decline. simple as that. Without looking at their accounting books, I'm betting that Free Dining, etc is pretty lucrative for them. They really have no reason to up the ante on food if people are still coming in droves for Free Dining. I personally thnk the FD folks think, "OK, maybe the food isn't spectacular but it's free; and it allows our family to come to WDW with fewer expenses.

Once Disney sees in their numbers OR in very vocal guest displeasure that dining is making people not come, they'll change. I don't think the food alone is making people choose other vacations. Now, the other stuff, like burnt out lights, I would say something about, b/c that's sloppy & cheap to fix.

 

[MIGrandma]

DH and I will be spending 4 days at Disney in January. The last time we were there together was January 2001. I was there in March '08 with my Mom, we stayed a week at POR. DH and I are staying there as well, because I loved that resort so much, can't wait to go back.

For us, eating is not one of the main reasons we go to Disney. We love the parks, the rides, the attractions, enjoying all the resort has to offer, DTD, etc. For us we make time to eat simply because we have to, not because we want to. So, for us, quick counter service and the food court is just fine. When we were there in 2001 we did have dinner at two sit-down restaurants. One was at Akershush when it was the regular buffet. We had made a 3:00 reservation, but were there at 1:00 and they were not busy at all. We were in one of the little tower seating areas completely by ourselves. We loved the buffet there! And we had lunch once at the 50's Prime Time Cafe and enjoyed that as well. Probably won't be able to do that this time, with the free dining. I don't care to make reservations months in advance.

So, we'll just do counter service and the food court. Good enough.

 

[GeorgeG]

When we get into "what would Walt do?" we can only consider the magic and creativity, the dream. Walt was a lousy businessman, which is why brother Roy ran that end of the business. Together, they made a great team. Now it's all business. So, yes, it would be great if Walt and Roy, or people like them, were both still running the company. Unfortunately, we have purely businessmen with no real vision beyond profits.

 

[cluvsdisney]

I did not read all the responses but my wish is more about variety than quality..many posted similar. I know it has to be cost effective, and kid friendly, but when WDW is trying to get folks to stay for 5 or more days, the really need to offer enough meals varieties to support a stay that long. Hamburgers, pizza, pasta, chicken, I know they are easy and quick, I realize the challenges involved, but stuff all started to taste the same to me after a few days...matter of fact, food choices have now fallen to the least exciting part I think of when planning a trip, pretty much stay with CS now and one or 2 TS dinners. I really enjoy WS tho, to see if anything gets added there to try something different, and we enjoy the Boardwalk and Dolphin offerings as well.
One meal we really enjoyed was 1900 Park Fare breakfast, I would say service was really good, not exceptional, but it is a character breakfast, for the situation I think it was run quite smoothly, great selection of food and nice but not too stuffy atmosphere and character interaction was so much fun. We do not do teh DP anymore as we feel we are catering ot the schedule of our ADR's, so maybe by only having 1 or 2 special meals each trip we enjoy them more? I can't wait to try the new places in Fantasyland...Gaston's looks like a hoot!

I think this is an excellent point. Between dining plans and ME, Disney made it enticing to come to Disney and stay at Disney. What do they do? Reduce evening entertainment, streamline bar food menus, streamline dining menus.

 

[Tinkermommy]

I'm sure Fire Dancer knew what they meant, but I also understand what Fire Dancer means as well.
Disney has changed because the times have changed. If Walt was here, he would have had to change as well, or else he would have gone bankrupt.

I agree as well. And while Walt was a great visionary he wasn't the most financially savvy guy. His brother kept the company afloat.

Do I think the dining has gone down? Yes, it has for the higher end restaurants.

But we don't go to Disney for fine dining. We have small kids who don't want to sit for over an hour for dinner. And I also like flexibility. We eat when we are hungry. We did the dining plan once and I didn't like working my vacation around dinner.

We will be there for 4 days before Thanksgiving. No ADRs for us. I actually think the quick service is fine. It's about what I expect for those kind of restaurants.

 

[FireDancer]

Frank, I'm disappointed.

I really never ever care what Walt would think in the same way I never question what Sam Walton or Adolph Dassler would think when Walmart or Adidas does something. I sure as heck don't wander if a move Volkswagen makes would have made the Nazi's proud.

Founders die and the company moves on. It is what it is.

 

[CarmenPeteron]

Well, I haven't been thrilled with the restaurants at Disney since the dining plan - not as many good choices, long waits, etc....so instead I just eat off property. Lots of great restaurants in the area and I don't mind the drive. I know the dining plan works great for a lot of families - just not ours, so we adjust accordingly. No biggie.
As far as other changes, I haven't really noticed any differences, but I don't go near as often as you do. Maybe you just need a break from Disney for a while. There are tons of other places I like besides Disney (thank goodness!!!), and it's not as depressing since I don't have all my vacation eggs in one basket.

I cannot agree more! We used to love going to Olivia's at the Key West Resort.
Since the restaurant in now on the Meal Plan the food quality has not been as good and the menu selection was trimmed dramatically. We also wanted to eat in and take our dessert with us to the condo. They told us that take out food is no longer allowed since they joined the meal plan. They are not able to differentiate between paying customers and people on the meal plan.