Depressing.

[mhsjax]

I suppose comparing the "new" Disney to the "old" Disney is lost on those who either haven't been going for as long as some of us or for whom the table service restaurants might be a new experience. Same with the upkeep, or lack of, around the resorts and parks. Perhaps we're being unfair to compare things with times gone by. I can appreciate that WDW is a business and any business needs to make a profit, but quality control should be a major issue for any good company. It's not just about profits.

We have dinner reservations for Christmas Day and, as an afterthought, decided it might be nice to stay overnight. Realizing we were not going to get any AP or resident discounts, we expected to pay more for a room, but the best they could do is an All Star (VALUE?) for over $300 for one night! Uh, we'll drive the hour to get home...

The bottom line is that while discounts, dining plans and vacation packages are great for many people who could not otherwise have a WDW vacation, many others are expected to underwrite the cost of those and nobody is getting the WDW experience that made it special some years ago. Everybody loses except Disney, and this could be the beginning of the end for them, too!

Exactly

 

[WDWisTheBest]

My wife and I have travelled all over the world. Dining has never been the priority. If we want to have a really good meal, we can make it at home. The purpose of a vacation is to have a good time and possibly do/see something new.

That being said, I can't think of a single time that I have been disappointed with the food at WDW. I guess the closest was with the buffet at Trail's End, but truthfully, the food was fine. I simply wasn't in the mood for it.

It is funny that you mentioned Trail's End and the buffet. One of the best values IMHO is the buffet at Trail's End. We have eaten there four times over a five year period and the quality has been the same each and every time.

To each their own.

 

[Jennasis]

We have problems with it because it wasn't always like this, it is going down hill. I still love WDW but I believe and so do alot of people that I know that Walt himself would be mad as heck if he saw what was going on.

We just got back, we didn't do dining, had enough of that. Anyway, never enough trams running, not enough monorails running, at MK 4 rides were not working, at HS Rockin Roller Coaster was down. All of these thing one at a time, no big deal, but when they keep increasing the price for things, then I expect a higher return, and that includes adequate trams and monorails and rides that don't break down, and I don't mean the ole, please stay seated, this ride will start at any moment, I am talking about the turning people away and telling them that the ride isn't working problems.

I have been going to WDW for 30 years several times a year, so maybe it is more noticeable to me, but it is 100% going in a downward direction.

As far as the crowd level, Most of it is European and I heard alot of complaints for US citizens this time, stating it was time to move on to other vacation spots.

I hope it improves, we are taking a break for about the next 10 years. but I do hop to take my grandkids there in about oh, maybe 15 years or so.

I had none of those problem. Sorry your trip didn't go the way you'd hoped and it sounds like you need a break from it.

You know, all of these experiences are so subjective. What I think is delicious might be gross to someone else and vice-versa. I could have a spectacular stay at a resort and the family next door might have everything go wrong. Is Disney going downhill or some fans just burned out? Or is it a case of people just having different experiences? Who knows.

All I do know is that, for me and DH, Disney has NOT declined in any appreciable manner and fits our vacation desires in every way...so we'll keep going. For those of you who feel differently, while I don't agree with your assessment, it may be time for you to step away from the mouse. Absence makes the heart grow fonder you know!

 

[mhsjax]

I've been going to Disney since 1974 <gulp> so I understand where you're coming from. When Disney first started out, the food wasn't that great. It tasted like it all came from the same kitchen, so no matter where you ate, the menu was pretty much the same. When Epcot was built they branched out a bit on variety, and then a big expansion on variety and quality when they started building all the hotels. It's like they were trying to appeal to all the different demographics. So actually, it appears to me that they're coming back to where they started.

As far as the stuff like, painting all night long so no one has to see it during the day, and nothing ever looks worn, or the leaving the stores open until every single person has left on their own accord - sure that was nice, and it made Disney special - but it didn't make financial sense. Those are by-gone days. It doesn't effect just Disney, but every business.
A friend and I were talking about this the other day in reference to hospitals. I remember back in the 70's I needed minor surgery. The procedure then was to check into the hospital the night before, they wheeled me down in the same bed I slept in to surgery in the AM when they were ready for me, and I was back in my room all comfy, cozy for a night of observation and pain pills before being discharged the next day. I had the exact same procedure as an adult a few years ago. This time, I was told not to eat anything after midnight and to check in at 7AM at pre-op. There I waited with a large amount of people as we were called in one at a time. When it was my turn, I was knocked out/had my surgery, was observed for a couple of hours by the nurse and discharged to my husband to drive me home. While it was a lot more comfortable the old way, it didn't make sense financially, and didn't make a bit of difference medically in the big picture. Same with Disney, it was nice to have a freshly painted whatever, but it didn't really make a difference as far as my vacation experience went.

Man I know I look like a fool, because I keep coming back and agreeing, but something you said reminded me of something that I said just this past weekend.

I ordered a hamburger from the food court at PORS. I came back to the room and told my DH exactly this, "YOu remember how terrible the food was when WDW first opened? he said yep, Well it tastes like it did back then they are regressing.

 

[snapppyd]

My wife and I have travelled all over the world. Dining has never been the priority. If we want to have a really good meal, we can make it at home. The purpose of a vacation is to have a good time and possibly do/see something new.

That being said, I can't think of a single time that I have been disappointed with the food at WDW. I guess the closest was with the buffet at Trail's End, but truthfully, the food was fine. I simply wasn't in the mood for it.

With all respect, unless someone is paying for my vacation, who are they to tell me the purpose of that vacation? Maybe I have a good time swimming and then going out for a GOOD meal that I don't have to cook.

 

[mhsjax]

I had none of those problem. Sorry your trip didn't go the way you'd hoped and it sounds like you need a break from it.

You know, all of these experiences are so subjective. What I think is delicious might be gross to someone else and vice-versa. I could have a spectacular stay at a resort and the family next door might have everything go wrong. Is Disney going downhill or some fans just burned out? Or is it a case of people just having different experiences? Who knows.

All I do know is that, for me and DH, Disney has NOT declined in any appreciable manner and fits our vacation desires in every way...so we'll keep going. For those of you who feel differently, while I don't agree with your assessment, it may be time for you to step away from the mouse. Absence makes the heart grow fonder you know!

I am hoping you are right, I want to miss it. so we will not renew our AP. The food itself isn't really that bad, except for thsoe crappy buns, Got to get rid of those thing. My issues really are the lack of monorails and the rides being down. Don't eve get me started on them changing the voice on the TTA. We talked with several cast members and they said there isn't one person that likes it. Anyway there will be at least 5 less people there during the next 5 years or so, maybe that will help.

 

[Pakey]

Ah. I think I figured it out.

I honestly do not ,and really can't fathom how other people manage to, notice or care about such unbelievable minutia like paint chips on trim.

Stuff like that (to me) does not a vacation make.

Food, however, is important to us and like I said...we ate some of the best meals of our lives two weeks ago ON the dining plan.

Service is important to us and we received excellent service from top to bottom (with the exception of Universal but I understand that others have had great service there so I am looking forward to going back next time and having better luck).

Apparently YMMV. I'd say this attitude 'round here lately that Disney has gone to the dogs and we-won't-be-going-back-for-a-good-long-while/ever would be a boon to the rest of us (ie...shorter lines) but the place is crowded as ever.

But I am really sorry your experiences haven't been what you'd hoped and you want to go elsewhere.

Since you are quoting me and criticising my nitpicking, I will ask you this:

If you are used to watching television on a 60" screen and then you come home and you've got a 19" screen in it's place, would you notice? I'm not saying I go around looking for paint chipping. But I was so blown away when staying at GF and seeing the maintenance crews out every morning with their paint cans that it's hard to forget it. I go to GF every vacation to eat and maybe they have looked bad for years, but this time I noticed it and I remembered those guys with the paint cans.

My first visit to WDW was in 1976 and I was an adult then too. For many years now, my husband and I have gone for the golf, hanging out at the pool/resort and the food. I don't think I have to be classified as an uber picky person by saying that I've seen a decline.

 

[mhsjax]

I show the ASMu for $159 for that night.

I am sorry and I may step on some toes, but I have stayed there and there is no way that I would even pay the $159.00. I hated it, can anyone say Motel 6, painted up with some Disney stuff and slapped on WDW property so they can charge this amount. that is crazy.

 

[cm8]

I've been spending some time over on the restaurants board and it's getting pretty depressing. Having been to WDW six times in the last month or so, I can personally see the changes for the worse. It's not just in the dining, but in just about every area. Sometimes the changes are subtle, sometimes not. I'd be interested in hearing thoughts and ideas on the situation.

$$$money over People wins every time

 

[cm8]

I am sorry and I may step on some toes, but I have stayed there and there is no way that I would even pay the $159.00. I hated it, can anyone say Motel 6, painted up with some Disney stuff and slapped on WDW property so they can charge this amount. that is crazy.

, I'm sure that you are not the only one who thinks that

 

[GeorgeG]

I show the ASMu for $159 for that night.

My wife called central reservations and got the quote for one night as either $313 or $317, can't remember which. I'm guessing they wanted extended stays, not just an overnighter. It does sound pretty inconsistent, doesn't it?

 

[GeorgeG]

I have found that even when they say there are no reservations there often are or the wait is short. I go down a lot in January for marathon weekend and lived in FL for 2 years with an AP and while I have never tried to walk up to Le Cellier at 5:00pm on a Saturday with a party of 8 I am very often able to walk up to many places and get a seat in under 15 minutes.

It does require trying to dine at off times (2:00 or 7:00 instead of noon or 5:00) and might mean you can't get the exact place you want but I have found that during no-peak times getting a place is much easier then it appears on these boards.

Most of the time we decide in the morning to go to WDW for the day. On the way down we might call ahead to see if something is available at one our favorite restaurants and be told it's booked solid. We'll walk up to that same restaurant when we get there and get seated in 15 minutes like you said. I've found that many, many people make multiple ADRs to cover all the bases and only show up at the one where they happen to be for that meal. I won't even argue the reasons I think people do this, but I don't think it's right.

 

[Buckalew11]

Most of the time we decide in the morning to go to WDW for the day. On the way down we might call ahead to see if something is available at one our favorite restaurants and be told it's booked solid. We'll walk up to that same restaurant when we get there and get seated in 15 minutes like you said. I've found that many, many people make multiple ADRs to cover all the bases and only show up at the one where they happen to be for that meal. I won't even argue the reasons I think people do this, but I don't think it's right.

I agree with your thoughts, George.

I also agree with your above post. I tried and tried trip before last to get in at Ohana and LeCellier. Nope. No chance...not one opening for either in an 11 day period. Called when I got there too and, still, nothing. So we walked up to both and, sure enough, got into both. Saddest part was, I won't be doing LeCellier again--it just wasn't too good. And Ohana has went donehill every trip. Very sad as that was a favorite for my whole family.

Our best steak has definitely been at Shula's. Wonderful meal every visit!!

 

[Louise-Montreal]

I'm fairly easygoing and have no chips on my shoulder or anywhere else. The restaurants have standardized menus; unique dishes are leaving rapidly and it started when the dining plan gained momentum. It's probably because the kitchens ae now so busy that they just don't have time for creative food anymore. The only place you still see some creativity is in appetizers which are not part of the regular dining plan.

Another example is something I noticed 2 weeks ago. 12 years ago we stayed at Grand Floridian for the first time. We'd get up early every morning and walk and we'd see maintenance crews out doing touch ups on all of those railings at the hotel. Two weeks ago, I went over there for the afternoon tea and I couldn't believe how beat up all of that trim was. Huge chunks of paint missing all over the place.

I understand that WDW is a business, I'm an accountant, I understand margins and profits quite well. I also believe that the majority of WDW visitors are happy with the food there and WDW, as a business, should cater to the majority of their visitors. I'm not complaining, writing letters to anyone that they need to accommodate me. I'm just choosing to vacation elsewhere now instead of always going to WDW.

A previous poster said becoming upset over paint chips is a little extreme- however-what I loved about Disney was that attention to detail. Please note the past tense. I loved looking at the Boardwalk and seeing each light lit. Now- there are often burnt out lights. That is what Disney was renowned for- the attention to details. And like Pakey, I lament that that attention to detail is disappearing.
Will it stop me from going to Disney- No. Will I sell my DVC- No. It just makes me a little sad.

 

[sparklynails23]

You know, there is a real opportunity for the Swan/Dolphin to swoop in and be known as the place to go for a really nice dinner. If Disney's not willing to provide a great meal, someone else should.

 

[Guy Incognito]

You know, there is a real opportunity for the Swan/Dolphin to swoop in and be known as the place to go for a really nice dinner. If Disney's not willing to provide a great meal, someone else should.

it's already at that point, if you ask me.... got back from 2 weeks down there at the start of Oct, and some of the best meals we had were at Swolphin locations (Blue Zoo, Il Mulino, Kimonos).... and a couple of those we just walked in, and just sat in the bar/lounge area right away (still can get anything off the regular menu).


haven't been going at long as some of the others here, but the vast majority of our trips in the past 8+ years to DW have been because of food (mainly in Oct for the F&W festival). If you aren't there mainly for the food/dining, then perhaps the decline isn't as noticeable; but for those of us who have gone back after having a top-notch meal/experience, the changes are hard to ignore (and for those geeks who take photos of their meals as well, there's photographic evidence of the decline in some cases)

but, as others have said, as long as the parks are packed (what recession?) and the restaurants are booked up, there's no incentive for them to change back (and maybe more incentive to make bigger cuts). The T.G.I. Fridazation will just continue, so perhaps someday, every place will have the exact same drinks/food available, so it won't matter where you dine, it'll all be the same.

 

[Jennasis]

Since you are quoting me and criticising my nitpicking, I will ask you this:

If you are used to watching television on a 60" screen and then you come home and you've got a 19" screen in it's place, would you notice? I'm not saying I go around looking for paint chipping. But I was so blown away when staying at GF and seeing the maintenance crews out every morning with their paint cans that it's hard to forget it. I go to GF every vacation to eat and maybe they have looked bad for years, but this time I noticed it and I remembered those guys with the paint cans.

My first visit to WDW was in 1976 and I was an adult then too. For many years now, my husband and I have gone for the golf, hanging out at the pool/resort and the food. I don't think I have to be classified as an uber picky person by saying that I've seen a decline.

Ugh...such an inaccurate comparison, but I'll play.

Okay...sure I'd notice. But I probably wouldn't notice if I came home and my 60" television suddenly had smaller buttons, or smudge on the side of it.

Remember, I disagree with your assertion of a decline, so trying to convince me there is one won't work. I will simply say I am truly sorry your recent visits have been unacceptable by your standards. As I said upthread, may be time to take a break from the house of mouse for you (and others) and try some new things.

 

[acejka]

I attended a safari grand gathering celebration tonight and had FANTASTIC service. This was the first time in eating at disney world that I can say that. In the past the servers have been slow and unattentive, this server kept the drinks full, the plates away and was jsut generally great.

 

[Micca]

Another WDW "old-timer" checking in (first visit in the late 70's). With respect
to the quality of food--I don't think the intention orignally was providing great meals at WDW, but only to lure the guests to stay on property to eat something. It didn't have to be great, just somethig a little better than what one might expect at a theme park. Reasonable food, reasonable prices.

Then the word got out that the food at WDW was WAY beyond what most amusement parks offered, and over time, it began to become a destination for not only great rides and entertainment, but also for a pretty darned good meal. Now some above average-to-great food was becoming the norm at WDW and dining became a bigger priority at WDW. During this time the beginning of guide books rating restaurants, and later, the internet became the sources for WDW info.

Then with 9/11, all bets were off. The company had to do whatever it had to do to attract visitors. This is when creative marketing came into play and "deals" and packages were created to attract the people who always wanted to go to WDW, but thought it was too expensive. In focus groups, people who weren't WDW regulars never thought that food was a priority (beyond hamburgers, hot dogs, etc) were interested in a WDW vacation.

So the suits stood up in the presentation and stated that they could expect X% growth during the next year based on people willing to spend $x in an economy where people might be afraid to travel and were scaling back their vacation budgets. Eureka! The suits were absolutely spot-on in their predictions. People weren't coming for fine dining, they were coming for rides and an escape from reality--problem solved.

I don't think WDW was originally desgned for people to come back over and over again. It was a once in a lifetime experience for anyone who lived more than a few hours drive from the property. All that changed when the experience became so addictive that people wanted to return year after year and would even spend mega bucks to purchase time shares on property (DVC). I don't know that they ever considered that the Disney mojo was so strong that people might actually want to live nearby (Celebration).

I think what we see today is an amalgamation of what was considered in the late 60's, what developed during the 70's and 80's, and how they had to adjust in the 90's and the 2K's. Those goals/projections/expectations don't always match up.

 

[rie'smom]

Another WDW "old-timer" checking in (first visit in the late 70's). With respect
to the quality of food--I don't think the intention orignally was providing great meals at WDW, but only to lure the guests to stay on property to eat something. It didn't have to be great, just somethig a little better than what one might expect at a theme park. Reasonable food, reasonable prices.

Then the word got out that the food at WDW was WAY beyond what most amusement parks offered, and over time, it began to become a destination for not only great rides and entertainment, but also for a pretty darned good meal. Now some above average-to-great food was becoming the norm at WDW and dining became a bigger priority at WDW. During this time the beginning of guide books rating restaurants, and later, the internet became the sources for WDW info.

Then with 9/11, all bets were off. The company had to do whatever it had to do to attract visitors. This is when creative marketing came into play and "deals" and packages were created to attract the people who always wanted to go to WDW, but thought it was too expensive. In focus groups, people who weren't WDW regulars never thought that food was a priority (beyond hamburgers, hot dogs, etc) were interested in a WDW vacation.

So the suits stood up in the presentation and stated that they could expect X% growth during the next year based on people willing to spend $x in an economy where people might be afraid to travel and were scaling back their vacation budgets. Eureka! The suits were absolutely spot-on in their predictions. People weren't coming for fine dining, they were coming for rides and an escape from reality--problem solved.

I don't think WDW was originally desgned for people to come back over and over again. It was a once in a lifetime experience for anyone who lived more than a few hours drive from the property. All that changed when the experience became so addictive that people wanted to return year after year and would even spend mega bucks to purchase time shares on property (DVC). I don't know that they ever considered that the Disney mojo was so strong that people might actually want to live nearby (Celebration).

I think what we see today is an amalgamation of what was considered in the late 60's, what developed during the 70's and 80's, and how they had to adjust in the 90's and the 2K's. Those goals/projections/expectations don't always match up.

The food at DIsney World was mediocre before EPCOT opened. Once it did, all of the World Showcase restaurants had gourmet quality food which in turn caused other Disney restaurants to keep pace. I'm talking restaurants not counter service. Of course, the counter service was miles better than most of those today.

Once 911 happened, Disney started all kinds of marketing in an effort to draw people into the parks, including the DDP and free dining. I don't know if Disney didn't expect these to be successful or if they just didn't think it through but you had guests who had never made an ADR eating at the restaurants and ordering lobster and steak. This, of course, made it expensive for WDW and they began cutting out some of the more expensive items not just from DDP but from the restaurants period because you can't have one menu for DDP people and another for those paying OOP.

As far as what Disney expected from their guests, I know some families for whom it was once in a lifetime but others who made it an annual or biannual trip almost fromt he first year. I don't think it's mojo as much as it is easy. Go to one spot and you don't have to leave.