Debt Advice Desperately Needed....Please!

[Merriwind]

Very good points and true Crisi. It has taken this harsh but true backlash to get me to see exactly where we stand and that I need to face up to the reality and make it better. I was not accepting that what we were doing was irresponsible (sp?). A good hard slap was painful but also enlightening. The fact that I honestly thougt, in all truthfulness, that we were living within our means shows that I really did not understand where we were going and how much the fall was going to hurt. Unfortunatly, I will be hurting others with what we do IF it comes to bankruptcy or reducing our debt owed by cc companies being forced to accept less than what we owe. And that is why I sat my family down tonight and told them that we are going to be doing a LOT of things differently starting now. We discussed selling all of the DVC contracts, shutting off cable and phone but keeping internet for my job searches. (As a side note I am looking for anything, not just accounting jobs. Good point though. I thought putting in 5-14 resumes/applications a week for five months was a lot. But after reading what others have done I obviously need to step it up even more.) We are going through our things this weekend and seeing what we can sell and what to throw away or give to charity. We really don't have much that isn't well worn/used to give or sell but we will see what we can do. We might even need to cancel our life insurance policies and pick them back up once we can afford them again. But since we have children that may not be the responsible thing to do. Once we take those steps and go back over the budget to see if there is anything else we can get rid of we will see where we stand plus what else we need to do. We will make the sacrifices that we will need to make and set this right. I know I keep saying thank you to everyone but I also really mean it.

Both types of posts have helped. The negative ones are truthful based on what I have posted in the past and has thrown a nice cup of ice water in my face and made me own up to what I need to do and REALLY realize what we have done with our spending. Those blessed hugs and supportive posts have given me (and hopefully others that may be in a similar situation) the tools to get help and change where we are. Those are the posts that have kept me from falling off of the edge into an abyss. I guess what I am saying is that I am thankful for both. I may not like them all but I am certainly going to be a big girl and listen to what everyone has to say. There are valid points to each one and they each have made an impression on my choices.

OP, are you actually selling the DVC contracts? Or just discussing it? What did you decide about your vacations?

 

[friskykitten]

OP, are you actually selling the DVC contracts? Or just discussing it? What did you decide about your vacations?

Selling. With just the two we owe money on we could save around $500/month in payments & dues. Selling the ones that are paid off will be pure "income" to pay the other debt and still save us in dues every month. I haven't played with the numbers enough yet to see how much it will help but it will certainly lower monthly expenses by a good percentage and will pay off some of the other debt to get us much closer to our goal. Vacations are cancelled except the one in four days. I am not going to lie and say that we are not going on that one. The family decided together that we are going to move ahead with that one especially since we decided to sell all the contracts and won't be able to go back until we get our debt paid off and have a nice cushion in the bank. That could take years depending on what money we are able to make by selling our things, how long before I get a job, if my husband can find a better job eventually, etc. We just don't know how long it will take to get back on our feet and go away as a family together again so we are not letting this one pass by. Some will agree, most will not.

Another thing to think about OP in regards to this upcoming trip you still have scheduled: I know that unemployment laws vary from state to state and I am in no way an expert but I thought to claim it each week you had show that you were ready and available for work. How can you claim that if you're on vacation 2.5 hours away?

Yes, that is one of four questions that you have to answer. Were you willing and able to work if work became available to you for the week ending XX/XX/XX? I am absolutely willing and able if a job does come available during that week. They will notify me by my cell phone. At that point we pack up and get back home as fast as possible. It would be pretty ironic if I get a phone call that says we have a job for you but you have to be here in 30 minutes. Especially when there has only been three interviews in five months, one of them conducted over the phone. Still, it could happen and it is a risk we are taking. I won't be able to justify that to those who don't agree. Just like every issue, some will say go for it and some will tell me what a inconsiderate jackhorse I am. Both sides will list reasons why. I suppose I could claim that "No, I wasn't available for work that week"; even though I would be willing to cut the vacation short that day and come back home to start one; and be out of that weeks unemployment money. That would probably be the most honest thing to do. It's a no brainer on that one. Start a job that is offered that week or go away for that week? Obviously, the job will come first if one actually physically manifests itself.

 

[chobie]

Yes, that is one of four questions that you have to answer. Were you willing and able to work if work became available to you for the week ending XX/XX/XX? I am absolutely willing and able if a job does come available during that week. They will notify me by my cell phone. At that point we pack up and get back home as fast as possible. It would be pretty ironic if I get a phone call that says we have a job for you but you have to be here in 30 minutes. Especially when there has only been three interviews in five months, one of them conducted over the phone. Still, it could happen and it is a risk we are taking. I won't be able to justify that to those who don't agree. Just like every issue, some will say go for it and some will tell me what a inconsiderate jackhorse I am. Both sides will list reasons why. I suppose I could claim that "No, I wansn't available for work that week"; even though I would be willing to cut the vacation short that day and come back home to start one; and be out of that weeks unemployment money. That would probably be the most honest thing to do. It's a no brainer on that one. Start a job that is offered that week or go away for that week? Obviously, the job will come first if one actually physically manifests itself.

I think most people realize the chance of a job coming up that week after five months of looking is slim to none. It's the idea that you are not punishing yourself enough that really bothers them.

Your kids all realize life is much different now, but at least they will also be able to see you can still have some joy in your life.

 

[mrsklamc]

It's the idea that you are not punishing yourself enough that really bothers them.

Your kids all realize life is much different now, but at least they will also be able to see you can still have some joy in your life.

I don't think that's a fair statement.

I didn't try to talk the OP out of the trip because it's clear she has her mind set on it and a bunch of strangers on the internet aren't going to talk her out of it.

But it's not about punishment. The fact is that OP is in a situation that she isn't going to get out of without a 180 degree attitude change- and even then, it's a maybe.

The fact that she's still taking a disney trip shows that she hasn't had that attitude change. Other posters are trying to convince her to have it, but the truth is it is only going to come from within.

And a far better lesson to teach her kids right now is ways to find joy without spending money. You can laugh just as hard, and cherish your family just as much, around a monopoly board as at Disney.

Other posters aren't trying to be mean or punish the OP. Pardon the analogy, but the horse has walked up to the water on its own, but still isn't willing to drink. And still, no one can make it.

 

[chobie]

I don't think that's a fair statement.

I didn't try to talk the OP out of the trip because it's clear she has her mind set on it and a bunch of strangers on the internet aren't going to talk her out of it.

But it's not about punishment. The fact is that OP is in a situation that she isn't going to get out of without a 180 degree attitude change- and even then, it's a maybe.

The fact that she's still taking a disney trip shows that she hasn't had that attitude change. Other posters are trying to convince her to have it, but the truth is it is only going to come from within.

And a far better lesson to teach her kids right now is ways to find joy without spending money. You can laugh just as hard, and cherish your family just as much, around a monopoly board as at Disney.

Other posters aren't trying to be mean or punish the OP. Pardon the analogy, but the horse has walked up to the water on its own, but still isn't willing to drink. And still, no one can make it.

She will be the judge of what is the best lesson to teach her kids. I beleive she said the only thing this trip will cost her is a tank of gas.

I do feel there is an element of punishment some posters want people like the OP to experience.

Take the whole cutting the internet thing, it really is a necessity to have constant access to the internet when job searching these days. I know, I just spent the last two months in Florida job searching. Attaching resumes, changing resumes to suit individual positions (e.g., for some I downplayed my experience and "hid"my age), writing individual cover letters and most of all being able to respong ASAP when you get that email for an interview is crucial. But everyone cries "cut the internet" and spend your time and money (gas) shuttling back and forth to the library and waiting to get a computer. It may work for some, but for most that is counter-productive. But I think the very idea that someone might also get some (gasp) pleasure out of the internet as well, bothers people IMO.

 

[robsmom]

I think most people realize the chance of a job coming up that week after five months of looking is slim to none. It's the idea that you are not punishing yourself enough that really bothers them.

Your kids all realize life is much different now, but at least they will also be able to see you can still have some joy in your life.

I do not see as people expected OP to punish herself as much as they are offering advice that she be realistic and understand that Disney is a big reason why they are now in the position that they are in.

I don't know if cancelling the trip at this point really helps or not, because I don't know enough about DVC and what the cancellation rules this late would be. I do know that a timeshare with banked points is worth more than a timeshare with borrowed points. I suspect that not taking this trip would increase the sale value of the DVC, but again, I don't know enough.

I do know that there are billions of children in the world who have joy in their lives without ever having been to disney. There are millions more who have been to Disney and never stayed in luxury grand villa accomodations.

I think that we could coin a new phrase on these boards. Disneyholic. I think that we fuel each other. Only on the DIS are multiple vacations to Disney a year considered normal and/or even desirable. So many people stay club level at Disney but would never consider this is another location. They read about people like them doing it and think this is normal. Maybe the DIS budget board needs a 12 step program for reducing Disney spending.

OP, you decided a while ago to go and you have a committment to other family. With the decision already made, you need to go and try to forget about life for a while. I hope that you enjoy your trip. Take time to relax and recharge your batteries for the fight to come. The next few years are going to be challanging.

 

[chobie]

I do not see as people expected OP to punish herself as much as they are offering advice that she be realistic and understand that Disney is a big reason why they are now in the position that they are in.

I don't know if cancelling the trip at this point really helps or not, because I don't know enough about DVC and what the cancellation rules this late would be. I do know that a timeshare with banked points is worth more than a timeshare with borrowed points. I suspect that not taking this trip would increase the sale value of the DVC, but again, I don't know enough. I do know that there are billions of children in the world who have joy in their lives without ever having been to disney. There are millions more who have been to Disney and never stayed in luxury grand villa accomodations.

I think that we could coin a new phrase on these boards. Disneyholic. I think that we fuel each other. Only on the DIS are multiple vacations to Disney a year considered normal and/or even desirable. So many people stay club level at Disney but would never consider this is another location. They read about people like them doing it and think this is normal. Maybe the DIS budget board needs a 12 step program for reducing Disney spending.

OP, you decided a while ago to go and you have a committment to other family. With the decision already made, you need to go and try to forget about life for a while. I hope that you enjoy your trip. Take time to relax and recharge your batteries for the fight to come. The next few years are going to be challanging.

Well that's just it -- it won't help her situation to cancel THIS trip, but I'm willing to be some people are just livid at the thought she will even be in the vincinity of WDW when she should be at home self-flagellating.

 

[MoniqueU]

ok I read more of this thread I dont think the OP should go on vacation either. No good job prospects, possibly getting utilities shut off, not sure where the money to feed the kids or the pets. Not a good idea. My DH has a job but it only pays about 2/3s what he used to make and my mom has a timeshare and even with cooking there and and not having to pay for a place to stay I am still iffy on going and tjhat doesnt count having to buy park tickets or meals at theme park. All we are thinking of doing is drinving 4 hours to az where groceries and gas are cheaper and no outings just hanging out at the resort. And even then I am mot sure we can o it. Ithink OP needs to face up to the fact that this is not a good idea even as a lash hoorah.

 

[hockeyprincess]

Just remember people---THOSE IN GLASS HOUSES SHOULD NOT THROW STONES!!!!

Life happens to all of us at one point or another. Don't throw stones.

My good friend just buried her oldest son, killed Easter morning, second oldest was in intensive care for quite awhile and will spend the next year or more recovering from extensive injuries... kid that was driving was giving his alcoholic mother money each month for car insurance, and his mother spent his $$$ on booze and never paid the premium for insurance. The kid killed his best friend and severely injured best friend's brother, and my friend is left to foot the bill. No life insurance or car insurance, hospital bills, funeral expenses, her time off work to take care of the injured son....three children left at home..... This is likely going to bankrupt them, and ruin the life of the kid driving. He was not drunk but was being responsible and driving the other two home that were drunk. LIFE HAPPENS PEOPLE. It happens quickly and most times not quietly. You do the best you can with what you have.

Don't throw stones. You may be next.

 

[dipin]

Why, yes I did read the post I was referring to, the one your post immediately followed. You obviously didn't. There is no mention of ANYTHING you said above. Those statements were in a post much earlier in the thread. Why don't you have a look now?

If she doesn't mention "anything" I said above, how can you claim the OP changed? The fact remains that she is still going on a trip (as she confirms in following posts) she can't afford, rationalizing the whole thing, and so on (if someone is living on 50 a week for food and considering stopping with life insurance, I think it would be obvious to anyone that using points that could be rented out, gas, and gift cards that could be used at home is a luxury that is not really justified by thinking you deserve it as one last trip).

But hey, these things have been said enough times already, without eliciting a change. And it is not like I am personally involved, so, having given my advice, there is not much else I can do.

And I know there have been some nasty posts in this thread, but some people should really stop and think why they are so bothered even by the ones that are constructive. Maybe there is some denial and rationalization going on on their lives as well.

 

[bluesaturn]

I beleive she said the only thing this trip will cost her is a tank of gas.

A tank of gas, when she can barely continue to feed her family. After going on vacation, to Disney, several times this year. How is this even an option?

Has the whole country gone mad?

 

[bluesaturn]

Just remember people---THOSE IN GLASS HOUSES SHOULD NOT THROW STONES!!!!

Life happens to all of us at one point or another. Don't throw stones.

My good friend just buried her oldest son, killed Easter morning, second oldest was in intensive care for quite awhile and will spend the next year or more recovering from extensive injuries... kid that was driving was giving his alcoholic mother money each month for car insurance, and his mother spent his $$$ on booze and never paid the premium for insurance. The kid killed his best friend and severely injured best friend's brother, and my friend is left to foot the bill. No life insurance or car insurance, hospital bills, funeral expenses, her time off work to take care of the injured son....three children left at home..... This is likely going to bankrupt them, and ruin the life of the kid driving. He was not drunk but was being responsible and driving the other two home that were drunk. LIFE HAPPENS PEOPLE. It happens quickly and most times not quietly. You do the best you can with what you have.

Don't throw stones. You may be next.

Those "throwing stones" probably wouldn't go to Disney when everything is crashing down. Hence their telling the OP not to.

 

[chobie]

If she doesn't mention "anything" I said above, how can you claim the OP changed? The fact remains that she is still going on a trip (as she confirms in following posts) she can't afford, rationalizing the whole thing, and so on (if someone is living on 50 a week for food and considering stopping with life insurance, I think it would be obvious to anyone that using points that could be rented out, gas, and gift cards that could be used at home is a luxury that is not really justified by thinking you deserve it as one last trip).

But hey, these things have been said enough times already, without eliciting a change. And it is not like I am personally involved, so, having given my advice, there is not much else I can do.

And I know there have been some nasty posts in this thread, but some people should really stop and think why they are so bothered even by the ones that are constructive. Maybe there is some denial and rationalization going on on their lives as well.

Who are so bothered by the "constructive" posts? I haven't seen that. Maybe you are reading too much into things that you become overly suspicious of strangers on the internet.

I, personally, do think some of the "constructive" advice may not necessarily be good advice and may even be counter-productive although the posters meant well when they offered it.

 

[dipin]

I think most people realize the chance of a job coming up that week after five months of looking is slim to none. It's the idea that you are not punishing yourself enough that really bothers them.

Your kids all realize life is much different now, but at least they will also be able to see you can still have some joy in your life.

So if we follow your rationale, why even bother looking at all... If at any given week the chances are slim to none, why look at all?

She will be the judge of what is the best lesson to teach her kids. I beleive she said the only thing this trip will cost her is a tank of gas.

Oh, I think there is no doubt she will be the judge of that. None of us have any power to tell her what to do and what not to do. But since she asked for opinions, people are giving it to her.


Besides, the whole "it will only cost a tank of gallon" argument is basically a rationalization to do something they can't afford.

Well that's just it -- it won't help her situation to cancel THIS trip, but I'm willing to be some people are just livid at the thought she will even be in the vincinity of WDW when she should be at home self-flagellating.

It is not about self-flagellating. It is about the more she digs her hole now, the harder it will be to get out of it.

And your assertion that it wont help her situation to cancel the trip is absolutely false. You can cancel your trips up to a day before it starts, and those points are put in a "holding" status, which means you can only use them this year, with a few minor restrictions. But that is still a significant fact when trying to sell a contract. Go look at any DVC resale site, and the difference between contracts with points available this year, and contracts without points available this year, is about 3-4 dollars per point. Since we are talking about 650 points, that is a good amount of change, especially for someone who is living on 50 dollars a week for food and is considering dropping life insurance. The whole job search aspect is completely secondary.

Who are so bothered by the "constructive" posts?

You, for starters.

The objective fact is that this trip will not just cost a tank of gas. It will cost a tank of gas, the gift cards for food, and DVC points that have an impact on reselling the contracts. If she self-flagellates or not, I couldn't care less about. But the point remains that, once again, it is those who are being considered "harsh" who are giving the better, factual advice, as opposed to pep talks and "you deserve the vacation" posts.

 

[chobie]

So if we follow your rationale, why even bother looking at all... If at any given week the chances are slim to none, why look at all?

She said she would continue to look for jobs and leave in an instant if something came up.


Oh, I think there is no doubt she will be the judge of that. None of us have any power to tell her what to do and what not to do. But since she asked for opinions, people are giving it to her.


Besides, the whole "it will only cost a tank of gallon" argument is basically a rationalization to do something they can't afford.


It is not about self-flagellating. It is about the more she digs her hole now, the harder it will be to get out of it.

And your assertion that it wont help her situation to cancel the trip is absolutely false. You can cancel your trips up to a day before it starts, and those points are put in a "holding" status, which means you can only use them this year, with a few minor restrictions. But that is still a significant fact when trying to sell a contract. Go look at any DVC resale site, and the difference between contracts with points available this year, and contracts without points available this year, is about 3-4 dollars per point. Since we are talking about 650 points, that is a good amount of change, especially for someone who is living on 50 dollars a week for food and is considering dropping life insurance. The whole job search aspect is completely secondary.



You, for starters.

No I'm only bothered by the self-righteous posts.

The objective fact is that this trip will not just cost a tank of gas. It will cost a tank of gas, the gift cards for food, and DVC points that have an impact on reselling the contracts. If she self-flagellates or not, I couldn't care less about. But the point remains that, once again, it is those who are being considered "harsh" who are giving the better, factual advice, as opposed to pep talks and "you deserve the vacation" posts.

I'll admit I know nothing about DVC.

There is always more than one way to look at things. There are always trade offs. Your advice is no better than anyone else's whether you think so or not.

 

[dipin]

There is always more than one way to look at things. There are always trade offs. Your advice is no better than anyone else's whether you think so or not.

I never claimed my advice is better than anyone else's. But it is still advice, and advice based on actual DVC information. Yours, on the other hand, are basically an attack on anyone who offered information about the real costs of the upcoming trip.


Edit:
just as an example, from one of the more popular DVC resale sites:
" Saratoga Springs 100 points : $80 per point 100 points, Mar use year. 8 points available 3.1.09, all 100 for 2010."
"Saratoga Springs 100 points : $83 per point 100 points, Dec use year. 45 points available now, (12 in holding status, 33 regular) all 100 coming 12.1.09!"
" Vero Beach 100 points : $60 per point 100 points, Mar use year. 100 points coming in 2010"
" Vero Beach 100 points : $63 per point 100 points, Mar use year. 28 points available now , 32 points coming on 3.1.09"


So as you can see, having some points available now, even if on holding status, is worth about 3 dollars per point on resale. With 650 points, you are talking about 1950 dollars. And yet you claim that those telling her not to go just want her to self flagellate... It seems to me that it is the posters who you claim are self righteous who are actually giving the best advice.

 

[chobie]

I never claimed my advice is better than anyone else's. But it is still advice, and advice based on actual DVC information. Yours, on the other hand, are basically an attack on anyone who offered information about the real costs of the upcoming trip.

You clearly said you were giving the "better, factual advice." As for attacks your implying that anyone not giving the same advice as you may be in denial is what is attacking.

 

[dipin]

You clearly said you were giving the "better, factual advice." As for attacks your implying that anyone not giving the same advice as you may be in denial is what is attacking.

I never referenced other posts, only yours. But yes, I do think that advice pointing out the real cost of her trip is much, much better advice than a post that not only encourages her to go, but questions the motives of anyone else saying otherwise.

But I am done with you. Discussing whether or not someone who is broke can afford to go to disney seems to have touched a nerve for you, so there is nothing else to be said here. The facts have been pointed out.

 

[chobie]

I never referenced other posts, only yours. But yes, I do think that advice pointing out the real cost of her trip is much, much better advice than a post that not only encourages her to go, but questions the motives of anyone else saying otherwise.

But I am done with you. Discussing whether or not someone who is broke can afford to go to disney seems to have touched a nerve for you, so there is nothing else to be said here. The facts have been pointed out.

Ooh, back to being suspicious of my finacial situation because I don't agree with your advise. Anyone who does not agree with you must have ulterior motives becuase you advice is so much better than anyone else's.

I just know that no matter how well I have planned financially there is always the possiblity that something outside of my control could take it all away. So, I don't get on a high-horse about these things YMMV.

And you're the one who seems to have had a nerve touched, so much you forgot and/or denied what you wrote five mintues before about your advice being better.

I said some may want her to self-flagellate --not they all did. To use your logic you must have recognized something about yourself in my comment if you took it to mean I thought you want her to punish herself, right?

 

[KJMAX1]

I know you have 5 children, but is there anyway you could watch children for a family? My cousin did thisand finally got a license because there is such a high need for daycare here. She watches children during the day, and now over night for the families who work swing shift. It has worked out for them and she is making about 6k after taxes per month.