DEBATE: When does the "Disney Experience" cease to exist?

[DisneyKidds]

Mr. Head, sir...............

I believe the "immersive, isolated vacation world" concept was the heart and soul and skeleton of what Disney World was intended to be

Very much agreed !!!

I feel that during Eisner's leadership, Disney forgot what Disney World was supposed to be

Just so I am clear on your thought process (which I am not attacking or disagr.........ok, maybe I would disagree with it in some respects ), can you clarify this for me.

It seems as though you are saying (with respect to resorts? WDW in general?) that the fact that transportation to/from the 'mods' and 'cheaps' (or anywhere else not on a monorail?) involves vehicles, that the "isolated vacation world" has been invaded by the 'real world', and the outside world has encroached?

If so, would all parks have to be connected to any and all resorts by monorail or some other 'Disneyfied' transportation? I would assume buses don't cut the mustard, which I would agree with. Your line stands at the Seven Seas/Bay Lake and Crescent Lake resorts. However, these resorts are not connected to all theme parks and/or entertainment venues via monorail. Is that a problem in your eyes? Should they be? Should there be less entertainment venues?

Just a few friendly questions .

 

[Planogirl]

First off, this discussion was started out in relation to Disney Resorts. While there are now Disneyland Resorts, it didn't start out that way. Resorts were not a part of the original DL plan. Therefore, it becomes very difficult to determine what respresents Disney by way of resorts at DL. Can the DL resorts even be compared to the WDW resorts?

This comment interests me a lot. I realize that the Disney resort was the focus of this thread and I guess that I should have done a better job of clarifying what I meant.

When I say Disneyland I am referring to the overall package in existence in Anaheim. I am referring to the original Disneyland park, the three resort hotels, Downtown Disney and yes, even that stepchild DCA. DCA is the biggest problem. It's clearly a Disney park with many pleasing aspects but the lack of attention to detail and more importantly, the lack of attractions has made this one a problem. Also, many people don't believe that Downtown Disney at WDW is representative of Disney much less the more cluttered version at Disneyland.

So setting those aside that still leaves the original theme park and the three resort hotels. We did not stay in the Disney hotels but we explored two of the three just as we would at WDW. The Disneyland Hotel was nice but it didn't give me a modern, "ooh, this is Disney" feeling. It's very hard to explain. However, I would match up the Grand Californian to ANY WDW resort. This is truly an outstanding resort done up as only Disney can. Of course this is all subjective.

I believe the "immersive, isolated vacation world" concept was the heart and soul and skeleton of what Disney World was intended to be, and that the attention to detail and storytelling and show were simply the tools Disney used to approach any project.

That may be so. But (there's always one of those "buts") what of other isolated resorts? What comes to mind are the vacation spas that seem so prevalent in the west or the lovely self-contained tropical resorts in the south seas. Or even the resort that Stephen King based his novel The Shining in. You can't get much more isolated and self-contained than that!

With these in mind, would you say then that the WDW resort experience would be a combination of the immersion in the Disney "world" and the theming which only Disney does so well?

 

[grinningghost]

Disney stops being Disney when everything that involved Walt Disney and Roy Disney, Sr. is forgotten. Sometimes I worry about that.

 

[Walt's Frozen Head]

With these in mind, would you say then that the WDW resort experience would be a combination of the immersion in the Disney "world" and the theming which only Disney does so well?

I might say that, depending on precisely what question I was responding to.

Aside: I gave up the "don't end a sentence with a preposition" rule the minute I first read Churchill's quote about "the sort of foolishness up with which I will not put."

One reason I might _not_ say that springs to mind from your use of present tense, two possible meanings of the singular "resort," and this passage:

But (there's always one of those "buts") what of other isolated resorts?

From what I've seen, there's no "but" about it, there are resorts that beat Disney resorts at their own game, hands down. They just don't have park proximity.

I don't think there ever was such a thing as "theming which only Disney does so well." The special part was that Walt was the only one who took the trouble to actually do it that way.

Walt's been dead a long time, and his company hasn't taken the trouble to do it that way for an unfortunately long chunk of that time.

And Disney doesn't have a patent on "taking the trouble to actually do it that way." That's just a tool, for use on any possible project, by those willing to hone their skills at its use.

It seems as though you are saying (with respect to resorts? WDW in general?) that the fact that transportation to/from the 'mods' and 'cheaps' (or anywhere else not on a monorail?) involves vehicles, that the "isolated vacation world" has been invaded by the 'real world', and the outside world has encroached?

It's mostly just those damnable busses.

Standing by the road waiting for a bus means school or work to me... drudgery and the normal everyday routine. Standing on the dock waiting for launch at Wilderness Lodge is none of those things.

I love the launches, the bigger Friendships are fine, light rail would be fine... assuming it was in character for where it was used. A Conservation Station type train from AKL to AK, for instance.

I just don't want to see the same trains as MARTA and BART and the Metro, with mouse ears added to the platform warning lights. That's ordinary, common. Not Magic.

I always expected there would be a larger scale version of the WEDway zipping folks all over property. That's another aspect of classic Disney a lot of people underestimate, and that current management has forgotten: technical innovation. If you need mass transit that the masses don't already use every non-Magical day of their lives, you might have to come up with it yourself.

-WFH

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

... WDW is much more of a complex interaction of theme parks, resorts, water parks, and other entertainment (granted, the water parks and other entertainment weren't in the Master Plan)...

Well.... Not quite! I know you’re surprised, but the plan did indeed call for some very specific things. Things I’ve mentioned (harped on?) before and we don’t need to go there. But I really believe, especially given the direction they were trying to go when they built the Golf Resort and the Marketplace, that a VERY wide variety of entertainment venues would have been, not only conceptualized, but DEMANDED by the old “Walt” philosophy, if not the master plan itself!!

I feel that during Eisner's leadership, Disney forgot what Disney World was supposed to be. I also feel that during the same period, Disney eschewed more and more the tools of detail and storytelling and show, across all of their products.

WOW!! The Head man strikes again!! I think this very thought is always in the back of my mind when I look at the ‘newer’ offerings from Disney. And it may very well be that I am jaded and nothing more than an old guy living in the past. But it often occurs to me that if they were designing the Poly today, all the subtlety would be gone and in it’s place would be gigantic fiberglass palm trees (in semi primary colors) so that no one could ever miss the fact that it was a south seas theme!

I can really think of only one good analogy for this very subjective feeling I have for this subject. I think of a Walt produced ride, theme park, resort, etc. as a well made, thought out, finely crafted motion picture. One that deals with nuance. One that handles characters with delicate subtlety. The story flows, the pacing is natural and the story leads the plot. On the other hand, I think of a Disney ® “something” as a made for TV movie. Where pandering to the lowest common denominator is the rule. Where subtlety is ignored and replaced with a giant hammer with which the viewer gets hit over the head, driving the message of the movie home. And one that has the story and characters twist and turn in ridiculous ways in order to serve the convoluted or tear-jerking plot. It’s hard to cite examples. They both use film. They are both professional. But the differences, although vast, are very hard to describe and/or defend, yet almost impossible not to notice. Very subjective. Yes. Yes it is. Yet, very objective (to anyone with a discerning eye) at the same time.

Aside: I gave up the "don't end a sentence with a preposition" rule the minute I first read Churchill's quote about "the sort of foolishness up with which I will not put."

I agree!! It’s way to hard to keep up with. Who would want to?

 

[Captain Crook]

And it may very well be that I am jaded and nothing more than an old guy living in the past.

Not so old, but the rest...

But it often occurs to me that the subtlety would be gone and in its place would be gigantic fiberglass palm trees (in semi-primary colors) so that no one could ever miss the fact that it was a south seas theme!

Wow...You've conveniently forgotton about the Animal Kingdom Lodge...Again...How is it that they (the current Disney) so painstakingly recreated a lodge on an African Savannah, complete with authentic art & furnishings to a perfect African Landscape yet you have no faith that a simple faux Polynesian theme today would somehow be 'mucked-up'? Perhaps you're seeing through those 'Walt Disney' rose colored glasses again??? I thought Scoop warned you about those?

 

[Sarangel]

It was Planogirl's question that made me realize that I wanted to speak to this point:

Well, Disneyland is smack dab in the middle of the real world. Everything is right there just outside the gate and there's no real feeling of immersion. And yet the Disney magic is strong there. Maybe it's not as strong as it once was, I didn't see it before but it feels good to be there. It feels "right".

So, if that is the case and I'm not delusional, how does Disneyland still manage to be Disney?

Being one of those who frequent both coasts in the quest of the perfect Disney experience, I will submit that the Disney experience is not just the rides, the buildings, or even (hang on to your hat Landbaron) the show. These are important factors, but, for me, it is something about how people interact with each other while at a Disney property. I believe that these actions are inspired by the cast members, but it comes down to the fact that people are more likely to be nice to each other for no reason while on a Disney property. We've had total strangers befriend us & buy us lunch, and then turned around and done the same for someone else; Children are given things just because it would make them happy; Guests more familiar with the park/resort/parking structure will happily stop and offer to give directions to someone who looks lost. These are things that, unfortunately, don't often happen in the 'real' world.

I know that I will be rebutted with a thousand stories of the mom screaming at her kids, or the rude teenagers in line, or whatever. I will submit in return that these examples stand out more than they would elsewhere *because* people tend to go out of their way to be nice while at Disneyland, Disney World, or on the Cruise line.

To answer Planogirl's question, Disneyland just has a more obvious transition from the 'real' world to the Disney 'world' - it's more abrupt. And, yes, I have issues about how Eisner & co. have handled the additions, but it is my hope that, given time, these additions will grow to be a true part of the Disney experience.

Sarangel

 

[Captain Crook]

I don't agree with you all that often Sara, but I am in 100% agreement with this post and having stayed at the GC this summer we felt totally ensconced in the Disney atmosphere DESPITE the fact that the greater LA area was lurking just beyond a berm or through the trees or whatever...

 

[montessori]

Originally posted by Sarangel
I will submit that the Disney experience is not just the rides, the buildings, or even (hang on to your hat Landbaron) the show. These are important factors, but, for me, it is something about how people interact with each other while at a Disney property.

I agree! There is something very special about the sense of comraderie and togetherness guests at Disney World share. It's like, "we're all here for the same reason...we share the same experiences and emotions...we aren't really THAT different...it's a small world after all!"

We have stayed at Disney resorts 4 times since July. In June, we stayed at the Gaylord Palms. It is a gorgeous hotel, very luxurious with all the ammenities you could want. It was during that vacation that we decided that we would rather stay on Disney property, no matter how nice the off-site hotel is or how good the off-site deal is!
I guess it is the sense of being totally immersed in the Disney environment...being completely in vacation mode! When we were at Gaylord Palms. I felt that we had to "get going". I didn't feel like I was at Disney World until I was AT Disney World.
We've been to DW over 40 times in the past 20 years. We have seen alot of changes, some are disappointing, some are inevitable, and some are for the best!
I get a little worried about the future of the whole Disney corporate machine, especially while reading threads like this one. I can't tell who likes Disney and who hates Disney! Maybe you all like Disney but are skeptical of what is happening with it. That's all fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and you have obviously done your homework.
Disney World is not really magical. It's not perfect. It exists in the middle of the real world. It is owned and operated by human beings. Real people make the decisions that set it's course and ultimately define it's future. Regular people work there. It's not a fantasy world, but it comes mighty close!

Each and every Disney vacation we take is more wonderful than the one before! My husband and I KNOW, without a doubt, that we will have a fantastic time at DW next week! We know we'll have a wonderful time there for the Food and Wine Festival too! We're positive we'll have a Happy Thanksgiving there and we are sure to have a very Merry Christmas there too!
I can't put into words WHY the Disney experience continues to exist for us, I am just content knowing that is does. I'll spend time in my happy little Disney bubble on the other forums, discussing really important things like where to find a good cup of coffee or how many drops should they have in Tower of Terror. I say ONE!

Oh! I have seen Pop Century and shudder at the memory! It is atrocious!
But I think I could be very happy living at The Boardwalk.

Well that's my 2 cents worth, thanks for listening!

 

[DisneyKidds]

I'll spend time in my happy little Disney bubble on the other forums

Thanks for sharing montessori. Believe it or not, this is a happier little bubble than some of the grumps over here would have you believe .

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Wow...You've conveniently forgotten about the Animal Kingdom Lodge...Again

Peter, Peter, Peter! See, this is why I try to stay away from the subjective! So, not only do I have couch my posts with the obligatory subjective - objective, now I have to also add the common qualifiers such as “generally” and “it seems that virtually” and even the occasional “almost always”!!

Of course I didn’t forget AK! Nor did I ignore some of the other splendid things they occasionally do. But it does seem to me that they have gotten a bit gaudy lately (that HAT and wand are just two examples). I really do think that they would not be satisfied with the Contemporary. And instead of that beautiful mosaic they’d have a fifty foot replica of Flash Gordon’s rocketship circling above your head (complete with barber shears sound effects), just to be sure everyone knew this was supposed to be a futuristic joint!!

Perhaps you're seeing through those 'Walt Disney' rose colored glasses again???

Yes! Something I thought I’d have to watch. Something I thought I’d have to keep in check on these boards. But it turns out there’s really no need for much soul searching or self examination. Not while you, Scoop and Mr. Kidds are on the loose!! You call me on it even when it isn’t there!!!

Being one of those who frequent both coasts in the quest of the perfect Disney experience, I will submit that the Disney experience is not just the rides, the buildings, or even (hang on to your hat Landbaron) the show. These are important factors, but, for me, it is something about how people interact with each other while at a Disney property. I believe that these actions are inspired by the cast members

No need to hang on to my hat even if I owned one, which I don’t (not a hat kind of guy). I too believe that it is inspired by the cast members. And that, in my opinion, is the biggest element of the SHOW and of the “Walt” philosophy. I don’t talk about it much because everyone seems to agree on this little bit (or big bit) of Disney magic!

montessori,

You seem to be new here. Let me welcome you and invite you back to join in on our little dialogues. You have such wonderful thoughts in such a short post. I hope you don’t mind if I take the time to address a few of your comments. And please don’t be put off by my ‘quotes’. I use the function as a vehicle to emulate a conversational tone. I mean no offense.

I get a little worried about the future of the whole Disney corporate machine, especially while reading threads like this one.

So do I. I think threads like this tend to wash a bit of that blinding pixie dust from our eyes. And we wind up see things as they really are. And with this regime in place, that ain’t always pretty!!

I can't tell who likes Disney and who hates Disney!

I’ve been here for over two years now, and I can tell you, unequivocally, that there is no one here that hates Disney. In fact, I can pretty much promise you that we here are among its biggest fans!

Maybe you all like Disney but are skeptical of what is happening with it.

Ahhhh! You hit upon the central theme of these discussions. Many of us are VERY skeptical!! VERY skeptical indeed!! Ten years ago I watched in wonder as my father walked his ten year old granddaughter around the Magic Kingdom, late at night, pixie dust filling the air. They were both the same age in my eyes. Young and old at the same time. Communicating through nonverbal family fun! The bonds they formed that night would literally last a lifetime. I am VERY afraid I will not get the chance to do the same with my grandchildren!

That's all fine, everyone is entitled to their own opinions and you have obviously done your homework.

Yes, this is one of the most “Disney” educated sites I’ve ever seen. And, as far as I can tell, the most cordial as well! It is truly a rare thread that gets locked. In fact, I really can’t remember the last time that happened.

Disney World is not really magical. It's not perfect. It exists in the middle of the real world. It is owned and operated by human beings.

Whose job it is to create that elusive “magic”. Unfortunately, these real world human beings are very, very inept. They have squandered the gift that Walt left them and totally ignored his founding principles and philosophy. And I find that very infuriating and rather sad at the same time.

Don’t you?

Well that's my 2 cents worth, thanks for listening!

You’re welcome!! And thanks for listening back!!

 

[montessori]

quote:
Whose job it is to create that elusive “magic”. Unfortunately, these real world human beings are very, very inept. They have squandered the gift that Walt left them and totally ignored his founding principles and philosophy. And I find that very infuriating and rather sad at the same time.

Don’t you?



Yes.

Thanks for welcoming me, Disneykidds and Landbaron. I wasn't sure I wanted to get involved in this thread, I am not as verbose as some of you, and I thought maybe I would be getting in over my head. Maybe I am, but what's the worse that could happen?? People might disagree with me and I might learn a thing or two about Disney that I wish I didn't know.

I don't think "Pop Century" was the sole inspiration for this thread but, I must say, that hotel represents the downslide of Disney to me. When I see it, and I see it alot, I get depressed! This is the first Disney hotel tourists see if they enter DW by way of the Osceola. I've seen other threads where people have argued that it is cool looking, some people actually like it!

I find it hard to believe someone got paid to come up with the concept of this hotel. It looks like the projects in some inner city area, but painted bright colors with huge words and gadgets stuck all over it! "Wassup?" "Duh?" "Where's the beef?" These are questions that don't need to be asked on the side of a hotel for the whole world to see!!! I get upset just thinking about the architecture and design of this hotel, never mind that it sits unfinished, a glaring example of mismanagement and bad decision making.
I have never seen the other "value" resorts. Maybe they are just as garish but they seem to serve their purpose to many Disney tourists and we don't have to look at them if we don't want to. I'm not sure if the existing more affordable resorts are indeed "value" resorts or just plain "cheap" resorts. Lots of people love staying there, the price can be very reasonable and they are "on property". Guests at the value resorts are able to take advantage of Disney's transportation system!

There is no denying that something needs to be done about the bus system. We stopped taking buses around the property years ago. I think it was right after it took us an hour and a half to get from the Boardwalk to Downtown Disney.
I have only occasionally personally seen the decline in service from the CM's. I don't think the training is as extensive as it was and they don't know as much about "the world" as they did back in the day. I've only encountered ONE who was actually unpleasant to me though. Nonetheless, I do agree that the CM's are a vital and valuable aspect of the Disney experience and this issue should be addressed and corrected.
I don't know how to put quotes in the middle of my posts.

I do worry that my daughter will not share the same wonderful experiences with her family (when she has one) that we have shared at DW over the years. As I said in my original post, we are still enjoying wonderful Disney vacations. We are basically really happy people though, we are there to have fun and that's what we do!

What I mean is, maybe a lot of it is what we carry in with us. I can intellectualize about the whole Disney thing all I want, and it depresses me!

BUT, when we arrive at The Boardwalk next week, we will feel happy and content. We will immerse ourselves in the Disney magic, for it does still exist and we're going to find it and enjoy it every chance we get!

 

[Captain Crook]

From the side of right & common sense, I welcome you too, montessori. You seem to be tilting a little toward the 'evil side' but we don't hold that against anyone. Fun is fun and hardly anyone around here intentinally tries to hurt others.

Landbaron, how could anyone NOT CONCLUDE that you didn't think AKL was a gem when you specifically said that you doubted if current management would have the ability to build the Poly today? My point is that your assumption, whether generalized or specific, is still wrong. They just DID all of the things you were worried about (2 years ago) with the AKL...Perhaps their (management's) batting average isn't great, heck it may be in the .210 range but they still CAN get it right when necessary (glass half full).

montessori, I think you'll find that hardly anbody on this board will disagree with you about Pop Century...Except for me (even Mr. Kidds & Scoop bail on me regarding Pop). I think it's bright & basic and probably full of things that children & young famlies will find pretty cool. Do I find it that way? Well, no actually & I'm sure we'll never stay there but this board has a very high pomposity level and because of the vast amounts of Disney knowledge floating around it very often appears that this board is not only pompous but also can be arrogant, condescending, hoity-toity, rigid and mostly old school - Old school Disney, that is. Which means NO ONE will admit that something as cheesy as Pop Century might actually be good for some group that they don't recognize as valid (always because it just isn't "Disney")...And of course anyone who dares to support Pop, Dino-Rama or DCA will not be found posting here (although these people do exist in the real world).

Now, you mention the busses. This is a big issue around here although you seemed to have been put off by the biggest trasportation downful...getting to and from DD. We use WDW transportaion exclusively when we visit and it is just fine for us (I refuse to drive on a vacation - even if it's just a three day weekend). They do need to streamline & I'd hope for another monorail someday, but at current this seems to be one of the more minimal problems...

Lastly, my good friend Landbaron and I never disagree on the importance or quality of the CM's at Disney. For me they have always been and will continue to be an integral part of the SHOW. If their efficiency levels were to ever fall to Sea-World or Universal levels my support of Disney would be severly damaged. It should be noted also that LB now has a familial CM connection. A very fine CM & very nice person...

 

[montessori]

From the side of right & common sense, I welcome you too, montessori. You seem to be tilting a little toward the 'evil side' but we don't hold that against anyone. Fun is fun and hardly anyone around here intentinally tries to hurt others.


I'm tilting towards the evil side?? I've never had this said about me before! Hmmmm

Thanks for the welcome.

(heehee!)

 

[ohanafamily]

OK, I too will risk getting involved with this thread.

Please pardon the lack of quotes because I am not sure how to do it right, And I will not be offended if you correct my lack of knowledge; most of what I know in this topic is hearsay.

1) I was dismayed to find out about the subliminal messages in the parade. I find that very offensive and "Un-Disney". At least they weren’t trying to sell stuff.

2) I haven't been to DL since 1980, and I remember it quite fondly. It tears my heart apart to hear how they are letting it run down

3) It does sound like the Pop resort is not a place I would find Homelike or Comfortable for surroundings, but there is at least one demographic (probably one that would not have a representation on this board) that would find that hotel a "Happy Place"

4) I cannot believe all of the angst about Michael Eisner (ME). I understand that he came from an Animators Background, which is his passion, and explains why there have been so many animated films produced in the last several years. I also understand that he has been under a lot of pressure (by a Mr. Gold, and Roy Disney-The Nephew) to turn a profit. I also understand that he is one of highest paid, if not the highest paid, CEO’s in the country. I can see him telling his department heads to find ways to save money. I would hope he would not have the arrogance to say that “The Guests won’t care if we put off maintenance”. Also, there are a lot of things that are being discontinued and changed in ways that I don’t think are consistent with the visions of Walt. I will say a couple, but not go into too much detail because these things all have their own threads… but since I have a good rant going… The Disney Stores is a place for all things Disney, not just a glorified Kay-Bee Toys. Removing the Gallery Items from the High-End malls was a mistake (Please Quote me on it). Getting rid of the Magic Kingdom/Disney Club card was sheer arrogance, and risks destroying the magic for some of the most dedicated “Guests”.

5) One good story was that I got engaged at WDW- The Under The Sea Engagement. My wife will always treasure that memory, and I don’t think I will EVER be able to top it; Disney Magic at it’s best. Unfortunately, that department is now closed. This is a loss of magic for me.

6) My wife and I go to WDW a couple of times a year (DVC) and the place will always be magical to us; they will have to go far to destroy My pixie-dusted-rose-colored-Mickey Mouse-glasses.

7) I like Chester&Hester Dyno-rama

8) Back in April, I had the opportunity to go to the off-site Dr. (I bruised a couple of ribs at US-IOA) On the ride back the driver told me that “A While Back” a piece of the Monorail fell on a guest. WDW would not pay the Dr. Office visit fee. My answer was “Are they trying to get sued?” He answered me back that they have to have that as a general policy, otherwise they would wind up paying or scrapes, falls, and tummy aches as well. I personally think that with what they charge, they should take that responsibility.

9) While on the subject of the Monorail, a CM told that each section of track costs over 2 Million Dollars. It will be cost prohibitive to ever build another leg, let alone a new line.

10) I have had problems with the bus service too, but generally, it is workable (except going from resort to resort…)

This is enough for now, again, please feel free to correct me at will…..

 

[montessori]

quote: Well, no actually & I'm sure we'll never stay there but this board has a very high pomposity level and because of the vast amounts of Disney knowledge floating around it very often appears that this board is not only pompous but also can be arrogant, condescending, hoity-toity, rigid and mostly old school - Old school Disney, that is.

Are you saying that the people who post on this thread DO possess the above negative attributes?
I don't think that having the opinion that a certain structure is unattractive makes one pompous and arrogant. Pop Century, in my opinion, is ugly and it is "in your face" ugly. It screams at you as you ride by it! To me, there is nothing aesthetically pleasing about the structure and there's nothing hoity-toity about that opinion.
I don't profess to have vast amounts of Disney knowledge, I just know what I like! Maybe I have come to expect a certain quality from Disney... an understated elegance...a sense of class and style, be it on a grand scale or on a budget.


quote: Which means NO ONE will admit that something as cheesy as Pop Century might actually be good for some group that they don't recognize as valid (always because it just isn't "Disney")

Excuse me? I don't understand that statement.

quote: And of course anyone who dares to support Pop, Dino-Rama or DCA will not be found posting here (although these people do exist in the real world).

I'm just a newbie here but I welcome anyone's opinion about Pop Century. Dino-rama is a ride, right? I didn't know it was controversial and I don't know what DCA is! If someone has seen Pop Century in person and would like to try to explain the appeal of it...well, to each his own. No one can convince me to like it and I can't convince anyone to dislike it. Hey, some people like the take-out pizza on the Boardwalk! It just goes to show ya, it takes all kinds.

quote:you seemed to have been put off by the biggest trasportation downful...getting to and from DD.

Actually, I think the very LAST time we took a bus it was from the Caribbean Beach Resort to Animal Kingdom and that took ONE HOUR. We don't mind driving around DW and we walk to Epcot and MGM from the Epcot resort area so the transportation issue is a moot one for me personally. I don't think many would disagree that there are some problems with the bus system.

quote:Lastly, my good friend Landbaron and I never disagree on the importance or quality of the CM's at Disney. For me they have always been and will continue to be an integral part of the SHOW.
Do you find that the quality of the Cm's is lessening? I have only encountered one less than professional CM that I can remember, although they don't have the extensive training and knowledge they had years ago. I feel they are undoubtedly an integral part of the whole Disney atmosphere and experience. I appreciate them and I'm generous in expressing my gratitude to them.



Disney has set it's own high standards over the years. Disney has multitudes of devoted fans but they can't just sit back and rest on their laurels. There is dissention among their biggest fans and it is not unreasonable. I continue to go to DW as often as I possible can, and I continue to hope and pray that the future of Disney will be as unique and magical as the past.

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

Well!!! My oh my! So much to answer!! So little time! Let’s dive in!

First a little lesson for our new found friends montessori and ohanafamily.

A quote is very easy to produce. You need to copy the section that you want to quote and then surround as in this example:

{quote}LandBaron is right in everything he says, and Peter Pirate is ALWAYS wrong!! {/quote}

Now the above isn’t quite right otherwise it would have appeared as a regular quote and it wouldn’t have been much of a lesson! So you need to replace the upper case { with a lower case [ (just a normal bracket)! It’s that easy!! Have fun!! I do!!

OK!! I’ll be back!

 

[Captain Crook]

What I'm saying is that this board is (quite) a bit elitist (myself certainly included). The posters here are concerned with the past, Walt's legend, and keeping the status quo. I (along with Mr. Kidds & Scoop and a few others) occasionally stray from the rhetoric to point out that the real world (and the real world perception of) Disney is not the reality one would believe if living on this board.

You see Pop like all the others here do and myself to a point. I just happen to believe that it isn't seen that way by all people. There is a segment of the WDW population who will be thrilled by this Resort and its price and find their stay at WDW magical. I say this is not wrong, even though I personally don't want to stay under a 'Wassup' sign...You see it as a slip in quality, I'm not thrilled about it BUT if it fulfills a specific need for a particular group of WDW patrons, I'm not against it.

No one here on the Rumors Board will ever admit that something so outwardly cheesy as Pop could ever be good. It's kind of a paradox really, but even though Pop may not be something Walt or the old Disney would have built, it could be successful...My collegues here on this board could care less if it's successful because it's an affront to 'good taste'. My point is who appointed who the 'good taste' police? And if it succeeds how can Disney be criticized for building it...It's that simple.

You had a horrible transportaton experienice! If that happened to me more than once my opinion woul probably shift. But we visit WDW 8-10 times per year and this has never happened to us, therefre my feelings on the busses are that they fulfill the need...But I wish there was something better (I wish it a lot).

Regarding the CM's I don't think their quality has slipped in the least. We love trading pins with them and they are universally smiling & friendly and I wouldn't let one of the maybe 10% of sourpusses or folks having a bad day influnce my day...

Disney has set high standards over the years and hopefully these can be maintained, but they are subjective and everyone looks at each circumstance through a differnt light...

 

[DVC-Landbaron]

I wasn't sure I wanted to get involved in this thread, I am not as verbose as some of you, and I thought maybe I would be getting in over my head.

Ah! A feeling that all of us share. But we all bring something to the table!! Even if it’s only comic relief (I didn’t name names Peter)!! I feel over my head sometimes myself (but don’t tell Peter or Mr. Kidds, this is just between you and I)!!

I've seen other threads where people have argued that it is cool looking, some people actually like it!

Well, it’s all subjective. A matter of personal taste. And it takes all kinds to make up a world. So, with this thought in mind, we do take pains on this board (for the most part) to leave those subjective feelings alone. Sure we can state them, and often do, but it is very rare that a 10 page thread would be made up of nothing but personal opinions. Most of the time logic, philosophy and business enter the conversation and before you know it, we’ve got an interesting discussion going. Much more that a “Yes it is!!” - “No it isn’t!!” type thing! I enjoy it quite a bit!!

I have never seen the other "value" resorts.

(to be read with as much surprise as possible) WHAT!!?? You’ve never seen the All-Stars!!! You need to take a drive there sometime. It’s a real eye opener!!

What I mean is, maybe a lot of it is what we carry in with us. I can intellectualize about the whole Disney thing all I want, and it depresses me!

Ah! Welcome to my nightmare!! When I’m there I have a BALL!! However, in the light of the cold hard day, several weeks after the trip, I cannot help thinking about Disney in purely intellectual terms. And you’re right! It is very depressing. (As an aside, you’d be surprised how many people here can’t quite grasp that concept (hidden message to all if the shoe fits!! ))

Pet.... Ah! So it’s the Captain now (I just noticed!!)! OK!! On guard, my Captain!!

Landbaron, how could anyone NOT CONCLUDE that you didn't think AKL was a gem when you specifically said that you doubted if current management would have the ability to build the Poly today

Captain! Why is it that when I want and expect you to read between the lines you don’t!? And when there is NOTHING between the lines but your own imagination, you see something nefarious there? I never said they COULDN’T do it! I was inferring that they generally WOULDN’T do it! Now, I realize it’s all a matter of taste, but honestly, I feel subjectively that Disney generally takes the colorful, iconish, garish, over-the-top, hit-you-over-the-head, easy type theme. They used to be, subjectively and generally, tastefully understated and subtle. They can still do it. But they choose not to (time for a qualifier) most of the time!! I can’t get any more plain than that! And it seems to me agree! Look at the next quote!!

Perhaps their (management's) batting average isn't great, heck it may be in the .210 range but they still CAN get it right when necessary (glass half full).

Ah! Poor logic, poor math. I’m not surprised!! A .210 batting average would not be half full!! The glass is less that a quarter full! Or, the way I see it, OVER 3 quarters empty!!

Lastly, my good friend Landbaron and I never disagree on the importance or quality of the CM's at Disney. For me they have always been and will continue to be an integral part of the SHOW.

My Captain!! A great thought!! And I heartily agree!! (Hmmm. Now let’s see. 4 concepts from the Captain. 3 wrong. 1 right! HEY!!!! Your glass is only a quarter full too!!! No wonder you love the current Disney!! )

It should be noted also that LB now has a familial CM connection. A very fine CM & very nice person...

Thank you, my friend!!!



Ohanafamily welcome!!

Your post is going take a while. But I will get back to you. However, right now, the house is a disaster, the kids are running wild and my wife will be home in less than an hour!!! YIKES!!! I’ll be back later!!

 

[ohanafamily]

Sorry, the subliminal image deal was in a different thread; here is the link if you are curious...

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=271632