Debate: Partial Birth Abortion...

[snoopy]

Originally posted by Mercy
ALL abortions are legalized murder. Pro-Choice is just a "nice" way to phrase it.

If you, personally, think abortion is wrong due to your religious convictions or just how you feel about it, then it's perfectly appropriate to never have one. What is inappropriate is for someone who holds those beliefs to try to enforce them on other people.

And whether its legalized or not, here is the plain and simple reality. No one can force me to "shut my legs". In the event that I get pregnant, no one can force me to take my prenatal vitamins. Nor can they stop me from aborting my baby with a knitting needle. The history of what women did to stop their unwanted pregnancies in the era before abortion was legal is testament enough to how far women will go if necessary to achieve that end. Even if you think abortion is wrong, you can still think it's important to protect the health and safety of women. Since women who want an abortion are likely to try to get one regardless at whatever cost, even if safe, legal methods aren't available, why not make sure the safe legal methods are available?

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Originally posted by snoopy
My guess is NO. Its usually the rabid anti choice people who turn their back on the fetus they champion once its out of the womb. Particularly when its born to poverty and strife.

Very well said. Although it's a little early, I always wondered why the people that oppose aren't out there adopting HIV positive, or crack babies?

 

[southernclass]

Originally posted by snoopy
My guess is NO. Its usually the rabid anti choice people who turn their back on the fetus they champion once its out of the womb. Particularly when its born to poverty and strife.

No don't think so SNOOPY, because unlike most people in this country I am responsible enough not to get pregnant if I can't take care of my child.

Me and my FH make way enough money to have three children right now if we chose to and if something did happen to one of us both of our parents make enough money to help us out.

I am not anti-choice by the way I am anti-MURDER!!!!

I guess then we should have the right to choose if we can go shoot our neighbor if his dog poos in our yard right??

 

[minniepumpernickel]

Originally posted by southernclass
No don't think so SNOOPY, because unlike most people in this country I am responsible enough not to get pregnant if I can't take care of my child.

Me and my FH make way enough money to have three children right now if we chose to and if something did happen to one of us both of our parents make enough money to help us out.

I am not anti-choice by the way I am anti-MURDER!!!!

I guess then we should have the right to choose if we can go shoot our neighbor if his dog poos in our yard right??

So are you out there helping the underpriveleged and adopting a crack baby?

 

[MosMom]

You never answered my question southernclass...any plans on adopting any challenged babies who were "saved" by not being aborted.

 

[Serena]

It is so nice that people who are expressing their opinions on the matter, having the opportunity to have a choice, telling others that they aren't allowed to have a choice, And making such generalized assumptions that are far from the truth.

It's easy to be judgemental until it happens to you. And if and when it does, it will be great to have the choice of what you do.

I have my own story that I won't tell. However, I was grateful for the choice. Would I make it now, I really don't think so. But again, it's the choice thing. I will defend the right to chose, regardless.

 

[snoopy]

Originally posted by southernclass
No don't think so SNOOPY, because unlike most people in this country I am responsible enough not to get pregnant if I can't take care of my child.

Me and my FH make way enough money to have three children right now if we chose to and if something did happen to one of us both of our parents make enough money to help us out.

Well good for you, don't have an abortion then. Its not called a right to choose for nothing.

 

[wdwdvcdad]

Originally posted by MHopkins2
Thank you for the parade of smilies, but you didn't really address the point I was making. You obviously don't agree with it, and that's fine, but why?

Here are some articles & a description of the procedure:

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=3759

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2004/4/6/133410.shtml

http://www.nrlc.org/abortion/Fetal_Pain/

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/chuckcolson/cc20040511.shtml

The steps for a "partial birth abortion":

Step 1

Guided by ultrasound, the abortionist
grabs the baby's legs with forceps

Step 2

The baby's leg is pulled out
into the birth canal.

Step 3

The abortionist delivers the baby's
entire body, except for the head

Step 4

The abortionist jams scissors into
the baby's skull. The scissors are
then opened to enlarge the hole.

Step 5

The scissors are removed and a
suction tube is inserted. The child's
brains are sucked out causing the
skull to collapse.
The dead baby is then removed

Instantly upon birth, a baby cries from the shock. If that is painful to an baby, don't you think the murder described above would be painful?

I often disagree with you, but you usually come from a position where you have opinions that are formed with some understanding of the subject. I was just taken aback by the response.

 

[southernclass]

I always wondered why the people that oppose aren't out there adopting HIV positive, or crack babies? [/B][/QUOTE]


Because it is not my responsibility to pick up the slack for heartless people who shuck their burden on every one else.

Would I help a child if he/she were in need, of course I would!!

In fact, Fh and I volunteer at an AIDS center on the weekends and we also give our time and money to St. Jude Research Hospital, besides that we give ten percent of our income to the work of God because truly he is the ONLY one who should decide if a baby is brought into this world.

Are we better than him??? If he accepts the child shouldn't we??

 

[wdwdvcdad]

Originally posted by Son of the Morning
Oh please: If it was so "plain and simple," then it would not be a debatable issue.

If someone does not value human life, and is in favor of killing innocent children, then it is debatable. If children are seen as innocent and precious, then no, it is not debatable

 

[wdwdvcdad]

Originally posted by Son of the Morning
I support a woman's right to choose unconditionally.

Plus, I think the idea that abortion will be used as "birth control" is downright comical. As if all that it consisted of was stopping in a doctor's office for a few seconds, "pop, there it goes," and then going merrily on your way. I think the use of a condom would be both easier physically and mentally and undoubtedly a hell of a lot cheaper.

But, then you are ignoring the fact that it IS used as birth control every day.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

][/QUOTE]


Because it is not my responsibility to pick up the slack for heartless people who shuck their burden on every one else.

Would I help a child if he/she were in need, of course I would!!

In fact, Fh and I volunteer at an AIDS center on the weekends and we also give our time and money to St. Jude Research Hospital, besides that we give ten percent of our income to the work of God because truly he is the ONLY one who should decide if a baby is brought into this world.

Are we better than him??? If he accepts the child shouldn't we?? [/B][/QUOTE]



I think it's great that you do that! You sound like a really nice person. I didn't mean to make it sound like I was just picking on you.

I am pro-choice because I see it as one of the only ways to solve the problems globally regarding overpopulation, etc.

It would be great if we had no need for these type of solutions, someday.

 

[snoopy]

In fact, Fh and I volunteer at an AIDS center on the weekends and we also give our time and money to St. Jude Research Hospital, besides that we give ten percent of our income to the work of God because truly he is the ONLY one who should decide if a baby is brought into this world.

Are we better than him??? If he accepts the child shouldn't we?? [/B]

So are you saying that your religion and your belief in God trump cards MY religion and my lack of belief in God?

(asking hypothetically, that is)

 

[snoopy]

Originally posted by southernclass I guess then we should have the right to choose if we can go shoot our neighbor if his dog poos in our yard right?? [/B]

I dunno, you weren't planning on carrying around your neighbor in your uterus for the next 9 months were you?

 

[Saffron]

Originally posted by snoopy
I dunno, you weren't planning on carrying around your neighbor in your uterus for the next 9 months were you?

LOL!

Sorry ... back to the debate.

 

[MHopkins2]

Originally posted by Pyg Me
Wow.

Same response to you as I gave to wdwdvcdad.

 

[Lewisc]

Originally posted by snoopy
The majority of abortions done in this country are before the end of the first trimester. The ones that are further along are generally pregnancies which are experiencing some problem-either with the fetus or the mother (a woman I know who had a later term abortion when she was diagnosed with cancer -- she couldn't begin treatment while she was pregnant, but if she waited until the baby was born in over 20 weeks, the cancer would be so advanced it would be fatal). It then becomes a choice of who should live - the woman or the unborn fetus.
The only person who can care for a fetus is the woman carrying it. And no one should be forced to do that against their will. End of story, as far as I am concerned.

ITA but why confuse the issue with facts?

It's amazing how many people who are against abortion are also against alternatives like Plan B and birth control.

 

[MHopkins2]

Originally posted by wdwdvcdad
Instantly upon birth, a baby cries from the shock. If that is painful to an baby, don't you think the murder described above would be painful?

Honestly? No, I don't - which is why I originally posted that I don't see anything inhumane about it. If the brain is punctured and sucked out, the pain center in the brain goes along with it. (Note: you sort of contradicted yourself - babies cry from *shock* upon birth, not necessarily pain.)

I often disagree with you, but you usually come from a position where you have opinions that are formed with some understanding of the subject. I was just taken aback by the response.

Don't assume that just because I don't agree with you on this, it's because I didn't understand the subject. I already knew the details of how this procedure works, and my opinion stands. (As does my opinion on other types of abortions, after some samaritan inevitably posts links to squicky pictures.)

 

[richiebaseball]

Originally posted by MosMom
You never answered my question southernclass...any plans on adopting any challenged babies who were "saved" by not being aborted.

I'm not southernclass but this is a good idea. We could start a "challenged or unwanted baby adoption". Look, we have adoptions for greyhounds that have been discarded simply because they are no longer of use. We have adoptions for dalmations simply because they are born with a hearing defect. Why not something similar for babies?

Or we could choose to just kill the pups. Either way.

Just one man's opinion.

Richard

 

[Teejay32]

I actually kind of admire people who can take a firm stand on this one way or the other. I have my own story to tell too, someone telling me when I was 26, with a toddler at home, that my unborn child might be severely deformed and have a very short life span, or even no life span at all. I was for weeks. Questions arise...is life spent on life support really "life?" Can I handle this? (I really didn't think so....) I consider myself very fortunate to have a child with a rare disorder but a relatively normal life in all aspects. Since having been there, and never finding an answer to those original questions without the rock-solid convictions that other people have, it's important to me to preserve the availability of all options. Even if in individual cases not all of them are deemed acceptable by the majority.