DEBATE: is health care a right or a privilege?

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by mep319
I just had a friend who sat on a jury and awarded someone 1 million for complaications from hystroretomy (?sp). I was outraged when she told me...her explanation was that the doctor should have encouraged her to "try" something different first....when did people stop being responsible for their own bodies???

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I agree with your perception of this as well.. Patients DO have a responsibility for their own bodies and their own healthcare and should be actively involved in any and all decisions..

Unfortunatley some doctors believe they are "God's" and get very nasty if you ask too many questions or heaven forbid, question something they are doing or not doing..

My favorite saying is: "A passive patient is a dead patient." The patient has as much responsibility as the doctor does to be informed and stay on top of their health concerns..

If the patient above knew that there were other alternatives available to her prior to surgery, why didn't she pursue it then? As far as I'm concerned, her lawsuit was bogus because she dropped the ball herself..

 

[mep319]

Originally posted by C.Ann
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I agree with your perception of this as well.. Patients DO have a responsibility for their own bodies and their own healthcare and should be actively involved in any and all decisions..

Unfortunatley some doctors believe they are "God's" and get very nasty if you ask too many questions or heaven forbid, question something they are doing or not doing..

My favorite saying is: "A passive patient is a dead patient." The patient has as much responsibility as the doctor does to be informed and stay on top of their health concerns..

If the patient above knew that there were other alternatives available to her prior to surgery, why didn't she pursue it then? As far as I'm concerned, her lawsuit was bogus because she dropped the ball herself..

I personally went thru a series of health problems and at 30 they wanted to remove my uterus...do that surgery I apparently can't spell. I checked on line and found an alternative...discussed it w/ my doctor who basically blew it off. I pursued it on my own. Had the procedure..Uterine atery embolization...and it was the best thing I ever did. I took an active hand in my own care. One of my friends is an OB/GYN and has called me serveral times to discuss it so she could refer some patients. I know not everyone has the intelligence or resources to make such decisions BUT if you don't like the doctor...get a new one!

 

[mep319]

Originally posted by jlw29
I live in the same town as you wave2: HI neighbor!) and starting next week will be driving daily to Camden for my residency because I've been frightened out of PA, especially the PHilly area, with its out of control malpractice. Unless something changes in the next 3 years, I will keep working in NJ rather than closer to home where I can lose everything because of a bad outcome. It stinks! I have several friends who went into OB and NONE of them plan to practice in PA, even if they get their training here.

Hey neighbor! Sorry to see you go...it is such a long drive too w/ all the traffic! It is such a shame that we will near some of the best hospital and medical schools in the country and we are loosing those doctors to the neighboring states. Hopefully things will change soon and you can return! Have a safe drive!

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by mep319
I personally went thru a series of health problems and at 30 they wanted to remove my uterus...do that surgery I apparently can't spell. I checked on line and found an alternative...discussed it w/ my doctor who basically blew it off. I pursued it on my own. Had the procedure..Uterine atery embolization...and it was the best thing I ever did. I took an active hand in my own care. One of my friends is an OB/GYN and has called me serveral times to discuss it so she could refer some patients. I know not everyone has the intelligence or resources to make such decisions BUT if you don't like the doctor...get a new one!

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Exactly! And good for you for taking a firm hand in your own healthcare.. More people should follow your lead but so often doctors belittle their patients the minute they start to ask questions or inquire about altenative procedures.. I saw it all the time with the doctor that I worked for.. Never in a MILLION years would I chose this person as a doctor but sadly many of this doctors patients were elderly folks who were brought up to believe that you never, EVER question a doctor.. Half the time they walked out of that office looking like puppies that had just been whipped..

 

[acepepper]

Originally posted by Bob Slydell
In the US, it's a privledge -- when it becomes a right, we've become a socialist society. People in countries where medical care is socialized either A.) wait forever for sub-standard care, B.) pay extra for decent care or C.) come to the US for medical care.

Ignorance is bliss apparently.

Coming from a country that has a national health service, I can say that I've never had anything but good service from it. Not only for me, but for my whole family.

 

[jrydberg]

It's not ignorance. Glad you've had good experiences, but that isn't necessarily indicative of the state of the NHS. There are numerous accounts of problems with the NHS. Not picking on the NHS, since there are clearly numerous problems with the US healthcare system as well. But the first two clearly apply in a significant number of cases where the NHS is concerned.

 

[mep319]

Originally posted by acepepper
Ignorance is bliss apparently.

Coming from a country that has a national health service, I can say that I've never had anything but good service from it. Not only for me, but for my whole family.

As I stated in a previous post is that I am a caseworker for medical assistance. I know what the government is paying for and in what direction we are going in. Trust me we are on the road to socialized medical care and personally seeing what I have I think it will be the best thing. I'm sure you have great health care and we will too...some folks just can't wrap their head around it. But every year we inch a bit closer to universal healthcare...the public is just blind to.

 

[acepepper]

Originally posted by jrydberg
It's not ignorance. Glad you've had good experiences, but that isn't necessarily indicative of the state of the NHS. There are numerous accounts of problems with the NHS. Not picking on the NHS, since there are clearly numerous problems with the US healthcare system as well. But the first two clearly apply in a significant number of cases where the NHS is concerned.

The NHS is by no means perfect but then having a perfect system is not possible. You only ever seem to read the bad news NHS stories in the press, which is a shame because those are relatively few when you consider it deals with 1 million patients a day.

 

[jrydberg]

That's actually my point acepepper. I don't think we disagree. No system is perfect. The NHS is a good system (my family does have some personal experience there). So is the US system (plenty of experience there). We've got different flaws. But eliminating all the flaws is unrealistic. The bad facets of the US healthcare system are highlighted all the time. But I'm thankful for the quality of care and level of service my daughter was able to receive earlier this week.

 

[acepepper]

Originally posted by jrydberg
That's actually my point acepepper. I don't think we disagree. No system is perfect. The NHS is a good system (my family does have some personal experience there). So is the US system (plenty of experience there). We've got different flaws. But eliminating all the flaws is unrealistic. The bad facets of the US healthcare system are highlighted all the time. But I'm thankful for the quality of care and level of service my daughter was able to receive earlier this week.

*Sigh* The debates on the CB are far too civilized for my liking.

 

[kilee]

Don't usually join in on many debates-- but this one is something I have a huge problem with.

I pay for a policy that costs almost as much as my mortgage every month to keep us somewhat insured. I have taken it out on my own in order to have some coverage, as neither DH nor I are offered health benefits at our otherwise good jobs.

What really gets me is how my property taxes just went up 15% overall due to the state Medicaid program being flooded w/ clients!!! Obviously it's a right for some!

 

[mep319]

Originally posted by kilee
Don't usually join in on many debates-- but this one is something I have a huge problem with.

I pay for a policy that costs almost as much as my mortgage every month to keep us somewhat insured. I have taken it out on my own in order to have some coverage, as neither DH nor I are offered health benefits at our otherwise good jobs.

What really gets me is how my property taxes just went up 15% overall due to the state Medicaid program being flooded w/ clients!!! Obviously it's a right for some!

I don't understand how your property taxes would go up...Medicaid is federally funded and property taxes should have no bearing...now your federal income taxes may pay some of that unless you are offering a state funded General Assistance program to single, non disabled adults.

 

[Toby'sFriend]

I don't understand how your property taxes would go up...Medicaid is federally funded and property taxes should have no bearing...now your federal income taxes may pay some of that unless you are offering a state funded General Assistance program to single, non disabled adults.

That is not entirely true. Medicaid is heavily funded through federal taxes, but States themselves also fund several programs. In Illinois the funding is 50% Federal and 50% State.

What is Medicaid?

Medicaid is a jointly-funded state and federal government program that pays for medically necessary services. Medicaid pays for medical services for children and their caretakers, pregnant women, and persons who are disabled, blind or 65 years of age or older.

In Illinois, Medicaid is administered by the Department of Public Aid. State government contributes one-half of the program's cost, the federal government the other half.

Primary services funded through Medicaid are physician, hospital and long term care. Additional coverage includes drugs, medical equipment and transportation, family planning, laboratory tests, x-rays and other medical services.

 

[jrydberg]

*Sigh* The debates on the CB are far too civilized for my liking.

LOL, okay... lemme try this... *insert random insult here* And another thing -- *insert another random insult here*

Take that!

 

[CarolA]

Assets are not considered in determining eligibility for Medical Assistance/Medicaid as longer as that person is under 21 or an adult responsible for a child under 21. The only thing considered is income..doesn't matter is that have 2 million in the bank, live in a mansion and have beach house in Burmuda.

Well, the case I quoted was a little differnt. In this case we did go after the assests. The hospital in question is a private psych. They do not accept Medicare/Caid and the parent signed a statement stating they would pay. I agree that is not always true. And the rules are different for private facilities. (By the way, when we filed a lean on the assest a check appeared. The assests also included a bank account in Mom's name with LOTS of money. She just did not want to pay!) That said.... why should I subsidze your healthcare if you can afford a beach house in Bermuda? And I am subsidizing free healthcare by the rates I am charged. Yes, the assests of a surviving spouse or minor children should be protected, but there has to be a line somewhere.

As for property taxes. Yes, they can be impacted. Lots of counties have a deal where they pay the local hospital for uninsured care. That money has to come from someplace and your property taxes can be one source.

 

[mep319]

Originally posted by CarolA
Well, the case I quoted was a little differnt. In this case we did go after the assests. The hospital in question is a private psych. They do not accept Medicare/Caid and the parent signed a statement stating they would pay. I agree that is not always true. And the rules are different for private facilities. (By the way, when we filed a lean on the assest a check appeared. The assests also included a bank account in Mom's name with LOTS of money. She just did not want to pay!) That said.... why should I subsidze your healthcare if you can afford a beach house in Bermuda? And I am subsidizing free healthcare by the rates I am charged. Yes, the assests of a surviving spouse or minor children should be protected, but there has to be a line somewhere.

As for property taxes. Yes, they can be impacted. Lots of counties have a deal where they pay the local hospital for uninsured care. That money has to come from someplace and your property taxes can be one source.

Not saying you should or shouldn't have to subsidize or pay for anything. As I said I am a caseworker for Medicaid. I just know the regulation and laws pertaining to it and was explaining it.

That is not entirely true. Medicaid is heavily funded through federal taxes, but States themselves also fund several programs. In Illinois the funding is 50% Federal and 50% State.

States fund General Assistance programs, Feds fun TANF (transistional assistance to needy families) and Healthy Horizons (aged and disabled). It most certainly is not a 50/50 split. The ferderal government provides and pays for all medical programs for disabled, aged, pregnant, and children under 21. The state can "choose" to provide additional services which they often do but there is a minimum that is manadated by the Feds...same goes for Foodstamps. We have little to no say in income limits, resources limits or coverage as it is fereally funded and mandated. If Illinois is paying 50% then everyone should be getting medicaid. PA is known to have one of the most comprensive Welfare system in the US and we put about 20% into our medicaid program and it is primarily for general assistance...those single, no children, age 22-59 w/ no disabilities...most states don't even provide for that.

 

[christineann]

I was one of those people who NEVER got sick also, but I have always done whatever it took to get health insurance. Three years ago I had what I thought was a sinus infection that wouldn't go away, so I went to a "doc in the box" and was told I had a nasal polyp. Decided to get a second opinion from an ENT and wound up having surgery to remove a tumor that had invaded 4 sinus cavities. The doctor said it was no problem for me to pay my out of pocket share to him over time. I'm a single mother with no help from my ex, and I work like a dog to pay bills, but I still don't think anyone owes me health insurance or free health care. I don't make a lot of money but I do have priorities.

 

[C.Ann]

Originally posted by christineann
I'm a single mother with no help from my ex, and I work like a dog to pay bills, but I still don't think anyone owes me health insurance or free health care. I don't make a lot of money but I do have priorities.

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Yup - you're right.. If you're able to work and you can find affordable health insurance in your area, there's no reason for it to be "free".. Glad to hear they have a good plan available in your neck of the woods..

 

[christineann]

Got Blue Cross Blue Shield - available nationwide. I would like to clarify that I am thankful that I am able to work. I know people (including a family member) who find it easier to feel sorry for themselves than to do what is necessary and believe that that entitles them to have things handed to them that others work hard to pay for. I believe very strongly that we should take care of those who truly are unable to do for themselves, and I contribute whenever I can.

 

[AirForceRocks]

Originally posted by mep319
Not saying you should or shouldn't have to subsidize or pay for anything. As I said I am a caseworker for Medicaid. I just know the regulation and laws pertaining to it and was explaining it.



States fund General Assistance programs, Feds fun TANF (transistional assistance to needy families) and Healthy Horizons (aged and disabled). It most certainly is not a 50/50 split. The ferderal government provides and pays for all medical programs for disabled, aged, pregnant, and children under 21. The state can "choose" to provide additional services which they often do but there is a minimum that is manadated by the Feds...same goes for Foodstamps. We have little to no say in income limits, resources limits or coverage as it is fereally funded and mandated. If Illinois is paying 50% then everyone should be getting medicaid. PA is known to have one of the most comprensive Welfare system in the US and we put about 20% into our medicaid program and it is primarily for general assistance...those single, no children, age 22-59 w/ no disabilities...most states don't even provide for that.

Perhaps that's the way it works in PA, but in IL it is obviously different, as pointed out in the earlier post by TobysFriend.