DEBATE: is health care a right or a privilege?

[cardaway]

Originally posted by emmagata
What do you propose?

Unless somebody is thinking of total segregation of the classes, would you want your children hanging out with the people who are totally denied healthcare?

IMO not having some way of getting the poor healthcare makes as much sense as not having some way of getting people food and shelter in some way. You could only go so long before the denied would start affecting the priviledged in a very bad way.

Be very fearful of those with nothing else to lose.

 

[Bumbles]

I'm interested in what counts as "affordable"

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by Eeyore1954
Your read of my comments is correct: I believe the current situation is perfectly fine as is.

If I didn't have health insurance, I still would not expect the government or "the people" to pick up the tab for my treatment. Healthcare is not a right, unlike life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

So if you just lost your job and have no insurance and can't pay for your healthcare because you just found out you have cancer, you should be denied life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

Should you not at least have the option of a payment plan???

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

even if you make it "affordable" some people will choose to spend their money elsewhere.

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by cardaway
Unless somebody is thinking of total segregation of the classes, would you want your children hanging out with the people who are totally denied healthcare?

IMO not having some way of getting the poor healthcare makes as much sense as not having some way of getting people food and shelter in some way. You could only go so long before the denied would start affecting the priviledged in a very bad way.

Be very fearful of those with nothing else to lose.

So, what you propose is fear of the unknown or fear of those with nothing to lose as the way to "reform" healthcare and make it more affordable? Doesn't work for me.

 

[UncleKyle]

Originally posted by damo
Why should health care be any different than education?

Seeing as how our education system is in this country, not sure I want the govt controlling the health care industry.

Like emmagata said, a lot of people who want universal health care are thinking "free". Most don't consider what it will involve. Look at the govt has managed Social Security. Gives ya warm fuzzy feeling thinking about socialized medicine doesn't it?

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by Briar Rose 7457
even if you make it "affordable" some people will choose to spend their money elsewhere.

And if those people are adults who could pay, then too bad for them.

But if those people are 6 year olds with cancer whose parents are too stupid to care if their own baby lives or dies, then I don't mind my tax dollars going to pay for it.

 

[Bob Slydell]

Originally posted by EsmeraldaX

But if those people are 6 year olds with cancer whose parents are too stupid to care if their own baby lives or dies, then I don't mind my tax dollars going to pay for it.

If they're irresponsible enough to not find a way to have healthcare coverage, what's to say they're responsible enough to even take the child to get medical care in the first place?

 

[BedKnobbery2]

Originally posted by Eeyore1954
So, what you propose is fear of the unknown or fear of those with nothing to lose as the way to "reform" healthcare and make it more affordable? Doesn't work for me.

I agree, it doesn't work as healthcare reform. Although a certain current president seems to like that concept as a campaign strategy.

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by EsmeraldaX
So if you just lost your job and have no insurance and can't pay for your healthcare because you just found out you have cancer, you should be denied life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

Should you not at least have the option of a payment plan???

You gotta love hypotheticals. What if this and what if that ...

I don't discuss hypothetical situations because such discussions lead nowhere. Typically, the situation is posed as a no-win condition (see above), so what's the purpose?

In the U.S., you are expected to pay for your healthcare services, either at the time they are rendered or you make arrangements with the provider for some type of payment plan. Payment can be made through health insurance, co-payments, deductibles, Medicare, Medicaid or your own private resources.

If I could not pay for my healthcare in some way, I would not seek it. There was a time for several years when I had no health insurance and didn't make enough to be able to afford to go to the doctor. So, I just didn't go to the doctor. I didn't expect someone else to pay for me. If I'd had an emergency, I suppose I could have taken out a loan to pay for it. But I don't expect anything for free.

 

[cardaway]

Originally posted by Eeyore1954
So, what you propose is fear of the unknown or fear of those with nothing to lose as the way to "reform" healthcare and make it more affordable? Doesn't work for me.

I didn't propose anything, there really is no point in throwing myself further under the socialism bashing bus.

IMO there is no solution as long as the country remains as divided as it currently is. Many of the people crying socialism see no problem in throwing money at programs that are really just doing the same thing from the other direction.

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by Eeyore1954
You gotta love hypotheticals. What if this and what if that ...

I don't discuss hypothetical situations because such discussions lead nowhere. Typically, the situation is posed as a no-win condition (see above), so what's the purpose?

In the U.S., you are expected to pay for your healthcare services, either at the time they are rendered or you make arrangements with the provider for some type of payment plan. Payment can be made through health insurance, co-payments, deductibles, Medicare, Medicaid or your own private resources.

If I could not pay for my healthcare in some way, I would not seek it. There was a time for several years when I had no health insurance and didn't make enough to be able to afford to go to the doctor. So, I just didn't go to the doctor. I didn't expect someone else to pay for me. If I'd had an emergency, I suppose I could have taken out a loan to pay for it. But I don't expect anything for free.

Yes. You are expected to pay for your own healthcare (if you are over 18) and if you can not, you should be at least given the option to make a payment plan.

Many people who could make payments over a period of time, are not even offered the chance if they do not have insurance.

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

esmerelda, I know of many cases in the court system right now where people wer treated at a hospital in an emergency, had no insurance, and made payment plans for their bills. the matters are in court because, after paying 5, 10, or even 20 years, people will default on these obligations. hospitals are not in the busienss of extending credit.

 

[year2late]

Originally posted by cardaway
Cry socialism all you want, but a society would be pretty foolish and short lived if they denied heallthcare to people that could not afford it.

Could not afford it or will not afford it?

 

[cardaway]

Originally posted by BedKnobbery2
I agree, it doesn't work as healthcare reform. Although a certain current president seems to like that concept as a campaign strategy.

Excellent point. Guess it's all about who is doing the speaking isn't it.

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by Bob Slydell
If they're irresponsible enough to not find a way to have healthcare coverage, what's to say they're responsible enough to even take the child to get medical care in the first place?

Sadly, this is often the case.

 

[Bob Slydell]

Originally posted by EsmeraldaX
So if you just lost your job and have no insurance and can't pay for your healthcare because you just found out you have cancer, you should be denied life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

Should you not at least have the option of a payment plan???

I've been in both situations, BTW.

I lost my job -- we switched over to my DW's insurance. If DW wasn't working, I would have paid for COBRA and cut back on other expenses to be able to pay for it. One way or another, I would have made sure that I had at least a minimum level of health insurance.

Why? Because DW had cancer and I know how expensive it is to treat it -- even with good healthcare coverage, we paid something like $8,000 out of pocket over a year's period (out of something like a total of $120,000 of expenses).

I will never, ever be uninsured, no matter what it takes to ensure coverage for myself and my family.

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by cardaway
I didn't propose anything, there really is no point in throwing myself further under the socialism bashing bus.

IMO there is no solution as long as the country remains as divided as it currently is. Many of the people crying socialism see no problem in throwing money at programs that are really just doing the same thing from the other direction.

Since socialism has failed everywhere it's been attempted, it's little wonder that many Americans react this way to suggestions of it for our country. I just love the argument that implies socialized medicine would work ... if we just had the right people in charge of it.

Sure it would ... just look at how well Medicare and Medicaid work today.

No thanks, I'll stick with what we have. Hopefully, I've got close to 20 more years before I'll be stuck with Medicare

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by Briar Rose 7457
esmerelda, I know of many cases in the court system right now where people wer treated at a hospital in an emergency, had no insurance, and made payment plans for their bills. the matters are in court because, after paying 5, 10, or even 20 years, people will default on these obligations. hospitals are not in the busienss of extending credit.

Well if the people do not pay back on the loans, they should be prosecuted accordingly, as with any loan.

But I think most people would make the payments if they were given the chance.

 

[wvrevy]

Originally posted by Eeyore1954
You gotta love hypotheticals. What if this and what if that ...

I don't discuss hypothetical situations because such discussions lead nowhere. Typically, the situation is posed as a no-win condition (see above), so what's the purpose?

In the U.S., you are expected to pay for your healthcare services, either at the time they are rendered or you make arrangements with the provider for some type of payment plan. Payment can be made through health insurance, co-payments, deductibles, Medicare, Medicaid or your own private resources.

If I could not pay for my healthcare in some way, I would not seek it. There was a time for several years when I had no health insurance and didn't make enough to be able to afford to go to the doctor. So, I just didn't go to the doctor. I didn't expect someone else to pay for me. If I'd had an emergency, I suppose I could have taken out a loan to pay for it. But I don't expect anything for free.

So why not just come out and say "If you're too poor to afford health insurance, you should just die quietly and shut the hell up about it ?"

By the way...I KNOW someone in nearly the same situation that Esmerelda described. She was diagnosed with breast cancer shortly after losing her job in a layoff. Their family has three kids, and the husband works two jobs trying to make ends meet. They are shortly going to be declaring bankruptcy due to the staggering medical bills facing them. So, by your light, my wife's friend should now be dead, since they couldn't afford the first of the procedures it has taken to keep her alive, right ?

I know you should never wish ill on someone, but I just can't help hoping that someday, people that think like that get to feel what it's like to be in that position. Somehow, I just can't believe that they'd be quite so cavalier about letting people die if it was them or their loved ones dying.