DEBATE: is health care a right or a privilege?

[EsmeraldaX]

I think one thing that drives health care up is the fact that there are a lot of doctors who have to get insurance for malpractice. I means lots of insurance which in turn drives their cost up because people in the USA are "sue happy".

I mean, yes, there are legit reasons why and when a doctor should be sued because he screwed up, by committing an obvious mistake. But there are some people who will take any chance to sue for little things that no doctor has the control over.

There was an episode of LA Law once where a baby died at birth and the mother was suing the doctor who did the delivery. The court looked at the evidence and realized that that doctor did all he could possibly have done, but sadly, sometimes little ones don't make it. Basically, I think whether people are in their grief (or anger) and not wanting to believe that bad stuff just happens sometimes, OR because they are just greedy , lawsuits in this country have driven up some of the costs of healthcare.

 

[minniepumpernickel]

This is one reason why I'm a liberal. I feel that everyone should be provided with some form of health care.

Our society needs a better system. We have too many people that aren't getting the proper care. One reason I choose to be a Red Cross volunteer. I could tell you about a lot of stories that I've heard about people who are suffering needlessly!

 

[KarenC]

The problem I see with health care is that almost all of us pay for it with other people's money. Unlike Dels Wife, most of those of us with insurance don't have to think twice before going to the doctor and we don't feel the true economic burden of our decisions. When the people making the decision about what health care to consume (us) aren't the people directly paying for that care (insurance companies) the normal supply/demand constraints on prices don't come into play and health care keeps getting more and more expensive.

We all pay for the health care costs of the insured through higher prices for the products we buy and the services we consume. Health care costs in America are one of biggest factors driving jobs offshore. Companies don't have to pay for health care costs when they outsource work to countries where health care is provided by the state, not by employers. It's also one of the reasons employers are reluctant to add jobs as the economy recovers.

We all end up paying for the health care of those who don't have insurance. If those people put off treatment because they can't afford it, and become seriously ill, hospitals are compelled by law to provide life-saving treatment. Hospitals have to get that money from somewhere so they charge more money to the people who can pay.

To help them out in this regard, insurance companies negotiate what they are willing to pay the doctors, hopitals, labs, etc. I was shocked when my daughter had knee surgery. The surgeon's bill was over $5,000. Blue Cross paid $1,100. I paid $100. The doctor wrote off the remainder. If I didn't have insurance, I'd have had to pay the entire $5,000. Doesn't seem right that those least afford to pay are paying the most for the health care they receive.

I don't know what the answer is, but I do expect we're heading for a health care crisis. Everytime there's a strike, the issues revolve around health care, not wages. My guess is that a single payer health care system will be here in my lifetime. I'm not saying that's a good thing. I'm just saying we have a problem that we're going to have no choice but to deal with eventually.

 

[BedKnobbery2]

Originally posted by Lewisc
Actually it's a right. Hospitals are not allowed to turn patients away regardless of ability to pay.

The problem is it may be more cost effective to treat poor people (for free if necessary) before it gets that far.

In theory, that's true. Unfortunately, in practice there are many ways hospitals 'turn away' someone without insurance. We have a current thread as an example right here on the Dis boards:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=585656

 

[emmagata]

Originally posted by cardaway
Cry socialism all you want, but a society would be pretty foolish and short lived if they denied heallthcare to people that could not afford it.

What do you propose?

 

[DawnCt1]

Originally posted by EsmeraldaX
And regardless of why parents do not work or choose to have healthcare, children should not be left to die because their parents are irresponsible.

And what children are left to die. No hospital can deny care to anyone, no matter what there ability to pay is. There is Medicaid in all states that cover medical expenses for those on welfare. Ct. has the Husky program that insures the children, up to 18, of the working poor or those parents who do not have health insurance. There are vaccination programs and clinics in every city and state. There are non profit, charitable hospitals such as St. Jude and the Shriners Hospital. If you think that patients in a single payer government system, such as the UK and Canada get the best care available, you are mistaken. They get care. Sometimes its adequate sometimes its substandard. If you are 80 years old and must wait a year for a hip replacement, that year in the wheel chair can mean the rest of your life or it could spell the end of your life. Health care is rationed. In some countries, diabetics over the age of 50 cannot receive dialysis. I don't think that is the "right" that Americans have come to expect.

 

[jrydberg]

IMO, there is a big difference between a right and a priority. No one has a right to a service they cannot afford. That said, it should be a priority to make sure people receive adequate health care. I'm not gonna pretend everything is great with our system of healthcare. It clearly isn't. But frankly, I don't think there's a healthcare system in the world that works great. The costs of quality healthcare are enormous. Unless costs are brought under control (unlikely), healthcare will continue to be a problem -- be it a privatized system or a public system.

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by minniepumpernickel
This is one reason why I'm a liberal. I feel that everyone should be provided with some form of health care.

Our society needs a better system. We have too many people that aren't getting the proper care. One reason I choose to be a Red Cross volunteer. I could tell you about a lot of stories that I've heard about people who are suffering needlessly!

I'm about as far from a liberal as possible but one thing I do agree with ya'll on is this.

 

[southernclass]

Originally posted by EsmeraldaX
And regardless of why parents do not work or choose to have healthcare, children should not be left to die because their parents are irresponsible.

ITA, drug addicts who would rather buy crack than pay for a doctor.

 

[damo]

Why should health care be any different than education?

 

[C.Ann]

I think it's interesting that it's against the law to take your own life, but it's not against the law to allow people to die because they can't afford health care..

 

[Briar Rose 7457]

saying that "hospiatals are not allowed to turn people away" is an overgeneralization.

Anti dumping law

under federal law, this is what you're entitled to:

An initial medical screening examination must be provided to determine whether or not an emergency medical condition exists. An emergency medical condition generally is a condition that, if not immediately treated, could be expected to result in serious jeopardy to the health of the individual or an unborn child, serious impairment to bodily functions, or serious dysfunction of an organ or body part.
If an emergency medical condition exists, necessary stabilizing treatment must be provided within the facilities and capabilities of the hospital. Alternatively, in appropriate circumstances, the patient may be transferred to a different facility.

other than that, you're on your own...unless you have health insurance or qualify for Medicaid.

Our healthcare system needs serious overhaul. we need to find more ways to provide insurance for those who are above the "indigent level" to qualify for Medicaid but who don't have employer-sponsored benefits. we need to make health care more affordable, and we truly need to do something about prescription drugs and their cost.

so in answer to your question, in this country is a privilege, but one that should become more accessible than it is now.

 

[wvrevy]

Out of curiosity, what would you guys think of a court system set up to specifically handle medical issues. The "court" would be led by a small panel of medical experts (say, three judges) and all medical malpractice suits would be handled by them. They would also be in charge of awarding damages in cases of medical negligence.

My thought is that by streamlining this process and putting the judgement into the hands of medical experts rather than an expert in law (a normal judge) or a jury, this would greatly reduce the possibility of a judgement against the medical professional except in those instances when negligence truly occurred.

I realize that malpractice insurance is one of the major problems wiht our current system, so why won't the system I just described work ?

 

[RachelEllen]

In short, I don't think it's a right, but I'm going to explain a little bit.

The flipside of 'right' is obligation. If you have the right to something, someone else has the obligation to provide it. If I have the 'right' to $10, there has to be someone who has the obligation to give me the cash. I don't believe in any rights that neccessitate obligations involving action, only those involving inaction. That's why I have the right to be free from physical attack. I have the right to think and beleive what ever I want. I have the right to free speech, but it ends where someone else would be obligated to provide a platform for it. And so, I don' t think there is a right to healthcare, because no one else has the obligation to pay for it or provide it.

That being said, I think providing people with their rights is only a basic measure of civilization. As a society, we can and should debate how much we provide to people that is beyond a basic right. And the better we deal with that question, the better of a society we are.

Rachel

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by southernclass
ITA, drug addicts who would rather buy crack than pay for a doctor.

This is exactly what I'm talking about.

I unfortunately knew someone like this. She went to the high school I graduated from and her younger sister (who was a much nicer person!) was a friend of my brother. She had three kids by the time she was 22. She was on all manner of drugs. One her children has leukemia and more than once did I hear tales of the sister or the 22 yo's mothers taking the baby to the hospital and paying for care because the babies mother would not front the $$ for care. But she always had a ready supply of cocaine.


That is one child, I don't mind my tax dollars helping.

According to my brother, the then 22 yo mother is now in jail and the grandmother has been granted full custody.

 

[emmagata]

Originally posted by EsmeraldaX
I'm not for Universal Healthcare either, but I certainly think everyone should be given the option to make payments rather than being required to have it all up front.
.

You mean that people should help themeselves? Even if it's just a little bit?

That's not what most of the people who are pushing for Universal Healthcare want.

They want it to be FREE for everyone.


I find it hard to believe that the 44 million people (according the Kerry ads) that don't have health insurance are completely unable to pay for ANY of their healthcare.

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by wvrevy
Out of curiosity, what would you guys think of a court system set up to specifically handle medical issues. The "court" would be led by a small panel of medical experts (say, three judges) and all medical malpractice suits would be handled by them. They would also be in charge of awarding damages in cases of medical negligence.

My thought is that by streamlining this process and putting the judgement into the hands of medical experts rather than an expert in law (a normal judge) or a jury, this would greatly reduce the possibility of a judgement against the medical professional except in those instances when negligence truly occurred.

I realize that malpractice insurance is one of the major problems wiht our current system, so why won't the system I just described work ?

Unless these medical people had some sort of personal biases (and I imagine they'd be screened out) I think it would probably work and save us all money in the long run.

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by BedKnobbery2
I'm just really curious. Bob, Eeyore, and Monkeyboy....I just have to ask. All four of us have cancer. I'm the only one who can afford healthcare. So it's A-ok with you that I live, and all three of you die? It wouldn't be okay with me. I think all 4 of us should have the equal right to treatment; as things currently stand, we do not. I'm not condoning any particular system of universal healthcare, but I do feel we need to initiate some kind of change which makes it more affordable and accessible for everyone, not just those who can afford it as it stands. (My read on what you've written/responded is that you think our current healthcare situation is fine as it is. My apologies if I've misinterpreted.)

Your read of my comments is correct: I believe the current situation is perfectly fine as is.

If I didn't have health insurance, I still would not expect the government or "the people" to pick up the tab for my treatment. Healthcare is not a right, unlike life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

 

[EsmeraldaX]

Originally posted by emmagata
You mean that people should help themeselves? Even if it's just a little bit?

That's not what most of the people who are pushing for Universal Healthcare want.

They want it to be FREE for everyone.


I find it hard to believe that the 44 million people (according the Kerry ads) that don't have health insurance are completely unable to pay for ANY of their healthcare.

I never said I was for niversal Health care. I said I was for care for children whose parents are too stupid and irrresponsible to take care of them, and payment plans for people who are responsible and need care for themselves or their children who can't afford to pay it up front.

Well that is what I am saying. People should have the option of payment plans. I think a lot of people would take that option if they could not afford the $$ up front.

If the child is under 18 and has a crackhead for a parent who would rather buy drugs than get the kid chemo, then I do think we should have a safety net for those kids. It is not their fault that their parents are morons and children who can not help themselves should not have to suffer because of it.

 

[BedKnobbery2]

Originally posted by emmagata
You mean that people should help themeselves? Even if it's just a little bit?

That's not what most of the people who are pushing for Universal Healthcare want.

They want it to be FREE for everyone.


I find it hard to believe that the 44 million people (according the Kerry ads) that don't have health insurance are completely unable to pay for ANY of their healthcare.

Wow, broad strokes there. Has anyone here yet said it should be totally free? Affordable does not equal free. Sorry if you misunderstood that concept.