DEBATE:Don't DVC Members Deserve the New Elite Fastpasses?

[Maistre Gracey]

Originally posted by Chuck S
But Mooobooks,

That 23K is a one time thing. Divide that by the 40 yrs left in the program and that is $575 per year for accomodations (+ dues, of course), far less than the average on-site guest.

I'm not sure about this. The mtc fees add a lot more to that annual figure than the capital costs. Also remember that DVC folks will return every year, which is unlikely for other guests.

 

[Chuck S]

Before DVC we went once every year, and spent WELL over our capital costs and dues on accomodations, now we go at least twice a year, and stay longer each visit. I don't see how it is wrong to compare average accomation costs of on-site guests to capital cost/40 +dues - isn't that how you JUSTIFY your purchase of DVC, and figure a break-even point?

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Chuck, I am saying that if moobooks has $23,000 invested in DVC likely has about 300 points. At about $4/pt in mtc, that is $1200 per year on top of the $575 that you quoted...big difference.

About going every year, I am saying that some booking through Walt Disney Travel Company may not choose to go every year for the next 40 years, where as you and I likely will. Indeed we will spend more $$$ over the long haul.

 

[Chuck S]

Agreed that as individuals we'll more than likely spend more than non-members during the course of 40 years. But, on a "per room" basis? For instance, if John Doe spends spends $1700 (or more) for a week at the CR plus hopper passes, food and souvenirs , then Bob Smith would do the same next week and so and and so on throughtout the years vs we 300 point (or more) DVCers that spend approximately the same for 2 to 3 weeks at a DVC resort annually, cooking some of their own meals, getting an annual pass (or skipping the parks altogether) where is the incentive for Disney? That "room space" at the CR on the average generates more $$ for Disney than a studio at OKW during the course of a year - thus also over the course of 40 years.

I don't think we DVCers should get fewer perks than other on-site guests - but I don't think we should get MORE perks either, simply because we've gotten a good discount to pre-pay for rooms over then next 40 years.

 

[SamR]

If this "perk" was something like reduced passport costs, or free meals for packages booked through the Walt Disney Travel Company, I wouldn't have a problem with it not being available for point-using DVC members. However, if a substantial number of people do book their vacations through WD Travel and thereby become eligible for the "elite" fastpasses, then I can only assume that will imply a reduction in fastpass availability for other guests, at least after the first hour or so (fastpasses being limited in quantity). Currently, during busy periods, fast passes for very popular attractions (such as Test Track) "run out" relatively early in the day. If elite users can hustle over and fill up on fast passes at the start of the day, then the rest of us may be out of luck after our first round or two.

So, my point is that providing this perk for "paying" WD Travel guests may negatively impact the experience of those of us who prepaid via DVC (at least during busy periods when judicial use of fast pass can substantially improve the park touring experience). Again, if this perk only improved the experience for WD Travel customers, I would not see a problem with it, but the fact is that this perk may also have the possibility of negatively impacting the experience for those of us who have already purchased our next 40 years of WDW vacations.

 

[DebbieB]

Along the same line, only people who buy "dreammaker" packages can get pre-paid meal & recreation plans. DVC members used to be able to buy the "food & fun" plan but when that was discontinued, DVC members had no plan available.

I don't think you can throw dues into the argument because Disney does not make a profit on that. I'm not sure how much of the initial cost goes into the balance sheet as profit, but it's certainly not the entire amount, the resorts cost alot to build. Buying DVC does show a committment to Disney, but I don't think they care much about that, all they care about is what goes into the bottom line. As I said before, they are selling out DVC resorts faster than they can build them, so there's no financial incentive for them to offer more perks. It doesn't seem fair, but that's the reality. Just as we have lobbied for additional pass discounts for years and it hasn't happened. I wouldn't hold my breath on this one.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Well, I don't really care about the money over time arguement, but if you do dues should be considered even though no profit is made. If the Poly costs $300/night, a chunck of that will go to the same things dues would go to, property taxes included. If someone is to make the case that staying on property, non-DVC will spend x amount, then that amount will include the 'dues' items. I guess I am saying if we compare, we must compare apples to apples.

More importantly is the fact that this benefit is not available to us. It is different than discounted park passes ect, because even though we will pay more, we can still buy park passes. We can not buy this 'perk'....at any price! If DVC offered this to us for a fee, that would be different.

 

[ToyStory Fan]

I agree with Maistre Gracey on this too...I think it is ridiculous that we as DVC owners are helping to finance Disney resort construction and are theoretically prohibited from accessing this perk. As DVC members we get the benefit of the 1st class accomodations, but we also forego daily mouskeeping service. We get to stay at all these nice places for a discount (mathematically discounted), but there are "special rates" available that could "beat" our price, and in all fairness to us, we did hand over $$$thousands of dollars to Disney "today" for use at some point in the future. I guess the one question (loophole) I have is: can you buy just the passes thru WDW Travel?

I understand the arguments people are making that Disney owes us nothing, but this isn't about owing us something, because it's not just booking thru disney.com that gets you the UFP, before DVC, I used a travel agent and all of my WDW packages were booked thru her as WDW Travel Co. That means anyone booking thru an affiliated Travel agency gets this perk too and that's what is not fair about this. If there was an exclusivity to it like booking at Disney.com then I'd lean more towards being okay with it (not happy about it but understanding) The fact that I can go to just about any travel agency all over the world and get it, but as a DVC member cannot really burns me.

 

[Granny]

My original response to the question focused on the word "deserve" in the thread topic, and I didn't think much about the ramifications the new policy would have on the parks experience.

In looking at the well-worded points made by Maistre Gracey, SamR and others....I think I have to agree that Disney should not begin a new perk that could negatively impact our park experience and shut DVC owners out of that perk.

In this case, I would have to agree that DVC members would be getting treated as 2nd class citizens by Disney.


I know, I know....Disney doesn't "owe" us anything like this. But it does undermine the ownership value a fraction.


Let's put it this way.....assume Disney goes with a "front-of-the-line" pass for people who stay at their deluxe resorts (just an example...NOT a rumor). This would be a marketing gimmick to get people to upgrade to deluxe resorts. And they didn't offer this to DVC owners.

Obviously, this would diminish our park experience as we watched cash customers file by us as we stand in lines.


Just trying to draw a parallel that I think most people would agree would be a slap in our faces.


Good thread....and I appreciate that everyone's views are being heard and not attacked.

 

[Chuck S]

But as stated, currently this still "non-existent" perk would be for those that book through WDW travel, not necessarily CRO - so not ALL on-site guests would be eligible for this either? It really makes no sense unless it were part of a specific travel package - or - a perk for all on-site guests, including DVC.


Are there other options available to those that purchase a package that are not available to all other WDW guests, even for a fee. I think the Food-N-Fun card may be one (although, for Mom & I, it costs more than it is worth when it WAS available to DVC members.)

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Originally posted by Granny

Let's put it this way.....assume Disney goes with a "front-of-the-line" pass for people who stay at their deluxe resorts (just an example...NOT a rumor). This would be a marketing gimmick to get people to upgrade to deluxe resorts. And they didn't offer this to DVC owners.

Obviously, this would diminish our park experience as we watched cash customers file by us as we stand in lines.


Just trying to draw a parallel that I think most people would agree would be a slap in our faces.

That is a good analogy, Granny.
IMO, the worst part is that the only way we as DVC members can get this perk is to not use our DVC points, and book through WDT. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[MELSMICE]

When FASTPASS was initially introduced I thought it was a perk for resort guests only. I thought you would have to put your room key through the FASTPASS machine instead of your ticket. I thought they had started this program as an incentive to get people to stay on Disney property, which made complete sense to me. I actually was a little disappointed that it was offered to anyone.

If they did offer it this way wouldn't it solve the issue of only offering it to people who booked through Walt Disney Travel Co? They would have FASTPASS available to all resort guests, including DVC members, no matter who you booked your ressies through.

I also don't think DVC owes us anything, however, I would definitely feel slighted & more than a little upset if they excluded DVC members from such an offer. Exclude the people that choose not stay on Disney property at all, not those of us who are loyal "fans & customes".

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Originally posted by MELSMICE
When FASTPASS was initially introduced I thought it was a perk for resort guests only. I thought you would have to put your room key through the FASTPASS machine instead of your ticket. I thought they had started this program as an incentive to get people to stay on Disney property, which made complete sense to me. I actually was a little disappointed that it was offered to anyone.

If they did offer it this way wouldn't it solve the issue of only offering it to people who booked through Walt Disney Travel Co? They would have FASTPASS available to all resort guests, including DVC members, no matter who you booked your ressies through.

I also don't think DVC owes us anything, however, I would definitely feel slighted & more than a little upset if they excluded DVC members from such an offer. Exclude the people that choose not stay on Disney property at all, not those of us who are loyal "fans & customes".

I agree with all of the points you have made.

 

[Zurg]

Nothing like a tempest in a tea pot.

Is there any way we could work something into this rumor about how the people who stay at one DVC resort will get the alledged benifit while the people at OKW wont?

That would really get this thing going good.

 

[DebbieB]

I was reading the thread on the rumors board and in miceage that the original poster mentioned. This rumor is for DisneyLAND. Disneyland has many less resort rooms and maybe able to handle this type of thing. Disneyworld has many more resort guestrooms and allowing anyone who buys a package through WDTC to use it would throw the whole fastpass system out of whack. I could see them limiting it to the high end packages (such as the old Grand Plan, whatever it is called now).

When we attended the CP earlier this month, many seats in the front section were reserved for "gold package holders". Even though I paid $42 a person for the CP package, we were seated in the second section while many seats were empty in the front section when we arrived (we arrived after they started seating because we were held up by the entrance of the ToD parade in Morocco). This may be an indication of Disney trying to sell the higher price packages (overpriced in my opinion) by offering special perks.

 

[BigTigger]

While I'd love the perk, I doubt it will come without some additional cost. UPH and 7 Day Hoppers have gone up a bunch in the last few years in real terms as discounts through the Disney Club have mostly disappeared.

 

[RobDoc]

Since this is clearly a rumor (and apprently intended for DL only at this time) it would be better discussed on the Rumors/News Board.

Enjoy!

 

[WDW2002]

NO! DVC members do not "deserve" anything more then a place to stay, since that is what they paid for right??

 

[Maistre Gracey]

Originally posted by WDW2002
NO! DVC members do not "deserve" anything more then a place to stay, since that is what they paid for right??

Just curious....did you read the whole thread?

 

[SnackyStacky]

This whole thread is EXACTLY why I feel this entire system is a screwed up idea.

The current Fastpass system, as far as I am concerned, is fine JUST the way it is, because it is there for EVERYBODY. Whether or not people take advantage of the system is another topic for another day, but it is there for EVERYBODY to use.

The whole point of the park was so that everybody could have a good time together. No selectivity!!!!


The only reason I think that they're trying this out is because Fastpass is a free system. The whole purpose was so that people, instead of waiting in line with closed wallets, be in the shops and eateries spending, spending, spending. BUT, that backfired. And the majority of people that I have seen are standing in line for one ride while waiting for a Fastpass window for another ride.

This new way will allow for them to CHARGE for the privelege of a fastpass. And even if they do offer the current type of Fastpasses for everybody, everyone still looses out because certain people can get as many fastpasses as they want, thus "selling out" the fastpasses sooner.

So to the original question, do DVCers "deserve" this new fastpass privelege? No more so than I do. DVCers paid money for accomodations. That's what they're entitled to, nothing more, nothing less. I paid for a park hopper ticket. I'm entitled to admission, nothing more, nothing less.

And yes, I did read the entire thread. You were given certain incentives to buy into the DVC program, and that's the way you chose to book. Now they're looking to try these new fastpasses as an incentive for a different way of booking. It's like buying an item for regular price, and trying to take the item back and get it for sale price.