Death of Co-Owner/interest in Trust?

[toocherie]

I have two questions (and no, no one has died, just curious--I'm a real estate attorney so these types of crazy questions pop in my head now and then):

If the DVC interest is in two names (i.e., husband and wife, or parent and child) and one of them dies, does the DVC interest have to go through probate or is there some type of expedited process to get the interest changed into one name only?

Also, I own my other properties in the name of my living trust, but didn't think about it when I bought DVC--does anyone have their DVC interest in their trust rather than individually, and if so did you do it at the time you initially bought or did you transfer it in later? Is DVC amenable to such a name change? (although I know they will want to keep the individual on any loan). I imagine you would have to re-record the deed--not sure it is really worth it in the long run. In either case--even if a co-owner died, the remaining owner would still be able to make reservations, etc. The real issue would come when the second co-owner died and the interest had to pass to the heirs.

 

[DISNEY FIX]

 

[ACDSNY]

Good questions, I hope someone comes along with the answers...

 

[Dale-Not-Chip]

You shouldn't need a trust. The survivor is on the Deed. It does not need to be passed on.

Now if both die then there would be an issue.

 

[CarolMN]

I know that you can transfer DVC contracts into a trust. You still need to get a ROFR waiver from Disney, though. They are reported to be good about issuing them for that purpose.

You need to talk to a Florida real estate lawyer to get a definitive answer to your question about avoiding probate. AFAIK, there is no way other than a trust to by bypass the Florida probate process.

I am not a lawyer.

 

[Chuck S]

The answer may vary from state to state, or it may be governed by FL law.

I know in states I've lived in, if property was listed as "joint tenants w/right of survivorship, while the value was considered for probate taxes, the property would go to the survivors and the deceased person could not leave their portion of the property to anyone else, even if a will stated otherwise. If the property was tenants in common, the interest could be left to someone other than the others listed on the deed.

 

[CarolAnnC]

When my husband passed away, the ownership reverted to myself since we were joint owners. This did not have to go to probate. Member Accounting helped me with this.

 

[toocherie]

When my husband passed away, the ownership reverted to myself since we were joint owners. This did not have to go to probate. Member Accounting helped me with this.

Carol: Thanks for this info--I'm so sorry you lost your husband. I was hoping that such a transfer would be the case . . . however, if you don't mind me asking, and if you know, was a new deed recorded with just your name in the official records?

Cheryl

 

[drusba]

If you have a living trust, they will allow you to transfer to the trust. Typical method is via a quitclaim deed. Disney will require verification of the trust and will issue waiver of ROFR. It will continue to treat the owners as the members for all intents and purposes. Trust avoids probate procedure. It does not avoid taxes if there are any. Note, the trust avoids probate after both husband and wife die.

Typical deeds in Florida for married couples are issued to those persons as "husband and wife." It won't say joint tenancy with right of survivorship unless that is specifically requested (which should not be unless you want to make it less protective than the husband and wife classification). The husband and wife classification is joint tenancy with right of survivorsip with a plus and is also known as tenancy in the entirety. With joint tenancy one of the owners can still transfer his interest without consent of the other. With tenancy by the entirety, he cannot.

If you have a deed in husband and wife and one dies,the whole interest is automatically owned by the other and it does not go through probate procedure (but again taxes depend on circumstancs) . You don't need a new deed. Any changes will be made when the survivor makes a transfer.

As to estate taxes, Florida has them but it doesn't (I know true legal speak). It taxes you only if you are also taxed on federal level (which has the high exemption, at least until 2010), but then it only taxes you for the amount you can deduct as state estate tax from the federal estate tax. In other words, the total you pay is the federal total; Florida takes that portion you are allowed to deduct from that total for any state taxes you pay

 

[goldenears]

Cheryl..great question!
Carol...so sorry to hear your husband passed away.
Drusba...is there a specific dept. at member services that needs to be contacted to get the paperwork to transfer the membership into the name of the trust?

 

[Figment2]

I'm in the final stages of putting my DVC interest into a trust. I was planning on detailing everything once it was done. I'm just waiting for the recorded deed and new title policy (not needed but I thought it would be a good idea).

Goldenears, I will PM you with the info when I get home (currently in Panama City FL).

Cyn

 

[cincinmouse]

For the purposes of estate value. If both owners passed away how does one value your DVC ownership. Do you use the current resale price per point as times the number of points you own?

 

[goldenears]

Thanks Cyn!

 

[dcamdad]

Just to lighten the mood of this thread, "Whats her's is her's and what's mine is also her's".

 

[toocherie]

I'm in the final stages of putting my DVC interest into a trust. I was planning on detailing everything once it was done. I'm just waiting for the recorded deed and new title policy (not needed but I thought it would be a good idea).

Goldenears, I will PM you with the info when I get home (currently in Panama City FL).

Cyn

Cyn: could you pm me too? Thanks! (Member Services is not going to be happy that I asked this question . .. . )

 

[Merilyn]

This problem has happened to me. My sister, daughter ,son and I owned our OKW,VB membership together. My sister passed away the end of 2006. I was told that we didn't need to be in a rush to take her name off, so I didn't do it. Well, now I find out that because the title wasn't worded right, her will will have to be probated in FL. Thank goodness we were on her will so that isn't going to be a problem. BUT, it will cost me a lot to get it all done. Her will was probated in TN and all is finished here. I wish I had known to have it titled "right of surviorship". Apparently Disney isn't allowed to suggest that, they are not lawyers or at least that was what I was told. I found all this out when I did an addon and because her name wasn't on it, they had to give me a new member number. THUS, more problems! And guess what the new title isn't worded right either and I know that will cost me 150 dollars to correct and it wasn't even recorded yet! I am going to fix the titles no matter what the cost. I don't want my children to deal with this later. Also, having 2 member numbers can be a real headache for trip booking. You wouldn't believe the rules that apply to two member numbers and transferring/banking points.

 

[SamSam]

Our Disney Properties are recorded in our 'Living Trust'. We had no problem doing this; I think it's a situation most of the guides are familiar with.

 

[SuzanneSLO]

We transferred our ownership in BWV into our trust last year. I first called Membership Accounting and left a message outlining what we wanted to do. I promptly got a letter from them explaining the next step: a formal letter explaining the transfer to the trust, signed by both members, and requesting ROFR. They included a form letter for making such a request. The formal ROFR took almost 2 months after we sent off the request and several follow-up phone calls.

I then prepared new Deeds based on the old ones and Florida statutes regarding trusts. I also prepared the FL Dept of Rev Form DR-219 required by the Orange County Comptroller before it will record the new deed. The DR-217 is available online.

The total cost to record 2 deeds (for our contract and one add-on), including the 70 cents in documentary stamp tax for each, and the Waiver of ROFRs by DVC, was about $75. We sent the documents to the Comptroller by mail along with a check and they came back recorded a couple weeks later. All the info about the cost per page and need for the DR-217 are on the Comptroller's website. We did not pay DVC anything.

Best of luck -- Suzanne

 

[CarolAnnC]

Carol: Thanks for this info--I'm so sorry you lost your husband. I was hoping that such a transfer would be the case . . . however, if you don't mind me asking, and if you know, was a new deed recorded with just your name in the official records?

Cheryl

A new deed was not recorded, but I am now the sole individual on that deed. Member Accounting was very helpful in guiding me through this.

This was in 2000. I have since remarried and DH has his own DVC contract purchased prior to our marriage, and I retain the several contracts I purchased in my own name - the original joint one and the subsequent ones I purchased on my own.

Thanks to those who offered sympathies. It was very unexpected, and I was worried at the time since I was still paying off my original loan. Everything turned out fine though and life goes on.....

 

[goldenears]

Carol...I am glad that everything ended up working out for you!

Suzanne...thanks for all of the details, including the cost. We didn't have a trust when we purchased DVC, but we do now, so I was wondering how much something like this would cost us. I know transfering our house into the trust was more than $75. Looks like this is one more thing that I should add to my "To Do List."