Dear Disney re: AP Rates, Or Lack Thereof

[Terry S]

EJ Gracie, I was going to post the same thing as dBugged did. By the way you have worded this letter i.e. "No doubt you have heard, from either this board ", it sounds like you think this board is run by Disney and your post on this board will get to Disney. This board is run by a wonderful person named Pete who loves WDW, but he does not work for Disney. If you want this letter to get to WDW you either need to send an E-mail directly to them or mail it to them. I have no doubt that there are people who work for WDW that do read these boards, but not on any official capacity.

 

[dznyntnh]

Cleokitty--Well, said.

The negativity on these boards that supposed to be for Disney lovers is getting to me too.

But keep that positive spirit. Just like I don't let them get to me in my everyday life, I won't let a few grouches spoil my vacation either.

I'm a Disney Nut and I will be til the day I die.

 

[the disney queen]

Although I'm new to posting on these boards, I've been a lurker for months. We are AP holders, and we bought the AP's because we wanted them for admission to the parks...and because of the # of days we spend there each year, we get quite a bargain!

Obsessing about AP rates does seem a little silly to me. If you want to go to WDW and stay onsite, book a room that is within your budget regardless of discounts. Then, if discounts become available and you are lucky enough to secure a room with a discount, then that's just an added bonus. And if you want to go to Disney but CAN'T afford to stay onsite, there just happens to be thousands of hotel rooms in Orlando that are much cheaper than WDW resort rooms... Some of them are VERY nice, and a much better value than WDW resort rooms.

All this obsessing and stressing seems silly...planning a vacation should be "fun"!

 

[frannn]

but I am afraid that it is a bit too negative for Disney to put much credence into. It has a "I feel wronged by you, and this is why" tone. I believe it would be more productive to stay on the same vein as the beginning of your email, rather than to remark on how Disney Markeing has failed. I feel your pain, as I too am waiting for AP rates to either be announced or not, but Disney does not care about you or me personally, they care about the bottom line. A better idea (if only to vent) would be to send a formal letter to Disney explaining to them that you are a member of a large internet group who, while understanding that AP rates are not guaranteed, would be appreciative to know whether or not there will be the opportunity to utilize AP rates for September and October. Even with this letter, I don't know that you will get a definitive response, because the discount is probably based on a lot of time dependant factors. If Disney needs to fill rooms for September and October, there will be some kind of "discount" or package. I doubt they would wait until the last second if they had these rates in the works, because that wouldn't do a great job of filling empty rooms. I believe that the rates that were out for that brief period of time ran through 10/1. It is possible that AP rates will be released at a later date for 10/2-whenever. If the resorts and parks are as crowded now as has been reported on these boards, maybe thats why there are no immediate AP rates.

Its possible they extended the FTP in lieu of AP rates as well, to make more $ on ticket media and resorts, whereas AP holders have already purchased their tickets and are tied in to a specific 12 month period. I suspect Disney is thinking that the majority of AP holders are almost guaranteed revenue, while new visitors are additional current revenue, with the possibility of future visits.

That being said, I still have my fingers crossed for a better discount!

 

[DisneyFan79]

I just wanted to put a positive note on this post. I am an AP holder and am still waiting to see what happens for the first of December. We were booked in a Courtyard view room at the WL for our vacation. Since the new package came out, and rooms were filling up, I changed our stay at the AKL standard room (hoping for some sort of upgrade) since the WL had none, so it will not put a strain on our budget. We do have a DC discount applied so we did save some money. My point is that now that I have changed resorts, I am perfectly happy with it and a bit excited over the rave reviews of the AKL. I am taking my mom to Disney as her Christmas present. I wanted her to see what I have been screaming and acting like a kid about for years. I know I wanted a Disney resort, so I went with what I could afford. If discounts do come out for early December that will be great!! Either way, we will still have a memorable trip. I really don't think it matters where you stay on property. You will always feel like you are included in the magic!!

 

[franw]

I don't believe the CMs have any real idea of whether AP rates will be released or when. I think they do exactly what we do and that is speculate among themselves. By telling us to look for them at the end of August they are doing one of two things (or both) speculating based on historical data or simply getting us off the phone so they can deal with reservations that are on hold waiting for their help. Management wouldn't give out info to selected CMs of upcoming discounts. It would inform all of them and in a far more official way than "maybe" the end of August.

 

[magicmouse2]

Well thats it for me... This obsession with waiting for AP rates is taking over my life and stressing me out!!! I am not ringing Disney every morning at 7am and I am going to go with the flow, and be happy that it is only 20 days til we arrive there!!!! Good luck everyone I hope that they do offer some sort of discount for later in the year. With lack of discount codes for room only stays I have decided I will still buy my AP and not be forced into package deals. I will just rent points from DVC members when available and stay at the DVC resorts Hopefully Disney will talk my husband into buying in in September.

 

[sandbar]

I don't understand how the Disney executives can ignore giving discounts to the AP holders (for the Sept. - Oct. time period). Yet they have mail and e-mail postcard discount rates sent out to people, who probably for the most part, can't use them because they can't change their work schedule. Whether they like to believe it or not, our lives do not revolve around them.
It has been disappointing (especially since I've wasted so much time checking on those elusive rates!) but I am now officially finished doing the AP shuffle. My vacation is set and am now (finally!) looking forward to our trip. I switched half our trip to the Swan $99 rate which can't be beat and either way we are going to have a great time. I'm with a lot of you. I just wish they would have let us know one way or the other. Vacation planning should not be this time consuming!

 

[palmtreegirl]

On the OP- I think if you're going to write a letter to Disney it should be from yourself and not made to sound as if you are representing all AP holders from the Dis because we don't all feel as you do.

but its not why I bought them. We will be there next summer for 12 days and it was just a better option for us. If we get discounts,that would be wicked cool. I didn't make room ressies dependent on that,so it would be a bonus!!
I think when you buy pass holder tickets you have to be satisfied with the fact that you get unlimited access to 4 parks for as many times as you visit WDW in a year. Anything extra you get with these passes is just that--------extra!!!!!!

Thank you for posting, my thoughts exactly!!!

Obsessing about AP rates does seem a little silly to me. If you want to go to WDW and stay onsite, book a room that is within your budget regardless of discounts.

I was starting to think I was the only one who does this. lol

The negativity on these boards that supposed to be for Disney lovers is getting to me too.

It just seems to me that lots of folks are spending their time moaning and groaning on the boards. Lots of negative posts bashing Disney. Some fun it has been this year reading the boards while planning a Disney vacation. Too much negativity before what should be a great vacation.

Me too. I find myself avoiding this board and it used to be my favorite. I've been biting my tounge not to voice my opinion up until now. But can't we have 1 thread devoted to the whole AP rate drama instead of as many as 6 or 7 at one time? I've been seeing posts get lost in the shuffle because of all the threads about AP rates.

Of course this all JMHO.

 

[Nuts4Disney]

Getting my fire extinguisher ready for the flames...


I prefer not to say which side of the "Great AP Discount Debate" I fall on & I have also seen the numerous AP Discount threads lately, but...

IMO, I think if other DISers are tired of the negative threads, it is far nicer to ignore someone's thread than post negative replys to it. I'm sure that I am equally guilty of posting negative replys to other DISers in the past, but, IMO, if someone feels the need to vent or they have a negative comment about Disney which others do not agree with it, IMO, it is just as easy to pass up that thread & let it die than post negative replys to the OP.

That's just my 2¢...I have my firesuit on just in case...

 

[Eeyore1954]

Nuts4Disney, I think this could go BOTH ways. Why start a negative thread in the first place and expect people to ignore it? I was reminded on another thread of two things my dad used to tell me:

1) If you can't say something nice, just shut up.

2) If I have to stop this car...

 

[disneyjunkie]

Originally posted by Nuts4Disney

IMO, I think if other DISers are tired of the negative threads, it is far nicer to ignore someone's thread than post negative replys to it. I'm sure that I am equally guilty of posting negative replys to other DISers in the past, but, IMO, if someone feels the need to vent or they have a negative comment about Disney which others do not agree with it, IMO, it is just as easy to pass up that thread & let it die than post negative replys to the OP.

It's so hard to ignore these threads when they are all over the place.

I can't understand why people think Disney owes them discounted rooms. The only thing Disney owe people who have invested in an AP or a PAP is admissions into the parks for 365 days.

Stop crying about room rates. If you want to stay at the GF, then you should budget for it. If you don't want to stay onsite, look for a room some place else.


This whole AP thing is getting so old.

 

[DianeV]

AP's aside, do you know many other hotel companies that make their customers jump through hoops so they dont have to pay rack rate? At any given time I would say the majority of hotels out there have some kind of special rates offered, whether AAA, senior citizen, manager special, etc. so many never really have to pay rack rate.

Why is that Disney is in some special category where so many believe that there is nothing wrong with paying rack rate? Their rooms are nice, their resorts are nice, no doubt, but so are alot of other resorts in the world and I dont see them holding out and keeping any specials a big secret.

Thats just my opinion..we go a lot and have only stayed onsite twice and that was only because there were room only rates for the general public at the time. We cant afford rack rates and I really feel if Disney continues with this trend they are going to make a Disney vacation out of reach for the "average" guy.

 

[DrTomorrow]

Nuts4Disney,

You're right, of course. As Jimmy Stewart (as Elwood P. Dowd in Harvey) said:
"In this world, Elwood, you must be oh, so smart or oh, so pleasant. For years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. You may quote me."

It is tough, though, with all the Disney AP bashing going on. I'm all for criticizing Disney when deserved [For example: BTMRR is on rehab while we're there - let's string up the lot of them! ] but in this case ....

However, I hereby pledge to drop out of "The Great AP Rate Debates" (catchy name, eh?) and work on being oh, so pleasant.

 

[EJ Gracie]

Originally posted by DrTomorrow
EJ, I'm not sure what you're basing these statements on, but you're wrong. Right here on the Disney Resorts Board is a Poll thread - How many people will stay off property and/or vacation elsewhere? [/URL] which addresses this issue. If you take a look, as of 9:40 AM EDT 8/20, only 35 people have said that they will vacation somewhere other than Disney, and 118 have said that they will continue to patronize Disney, but simply stay off-site.


Now I do suggest that if you feel this strongly you should send Disney a real letter - the address is around this thread somewhere. But please don't use DIS to make assertions that the facts don't support.

Dr.Tommorrow,

According to the poll you quote, over 50% (i.e. a majority) of the people who replied are either not patronizing Disney at all or not staying on property. Either way, Disney loses money by not offering the AP rates. Thus, I (and you it seems) am/are quoting facts that do support my point. So, don't lecture me on not having facts to support my argument when the facts you quote support my argument all the more. I guess I should thank you for making my point.

For the record, my intent was not to spur Disney or grow a negative thread. I love WDW and will continue to spend a lot of vacation time there in my life. But facts are what they are and a lot of people are put off by this AP situation (see your poll for confirmation). Its hard to be melodramtic when a decision is being made that could cost you hundreds of dollars. That you can't sugarcoat. I dislike negativity and cynicism as much as anybody but this is what it is. I am still very excited about my trip (remember in the original post I said "drama" and not "stress") and will have a memorable, fun honeymoon for all the reasons that we all love WDW.

The AP rate controversy is affecting a lot of people negatively and that is why you have a negative tone to the threads about this subject. I see it as simple as that. These boards are for topics about WDW and if a negative topic comes our way, well, then so be it. Its not ruining my life. I'm sorry to see that it is ruining everyone else's life who takes offense or are otherwise crestfallen at reading these "evil" negative threads.


EJ

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by EJ Gracie
Either way, Disney loses money by not offering the AP rates. Thus, I (and you it seems) am/are quoting facts that do support my point. So, don't lecture me on not having facts to support my argument when the facts you quote support my argument all the more. I guess I should thank you for making my point.

And you have the financial data & statistics to support your contention that Disney is losing money? I would be interested to see it, if it's available.

The AP rate controversy is affecting a lot of people negatively and that is why you have a negative tone to the threads about this subject. I see it as simple as that. These boards are for topics about WDW and if a negative topic comes our way, well, then so be it. Its not ruining my life. I'm sorry to see that it is ruining everyone else's life who takes offense or are otherwise crestfallen at reading these "evil" negative threads.


EJ

It only affects those who have elevated expectations or who believe they are entitled to special treatment because of a prior purchase they made. The purchase of an AP did not create any contract forcing Disney to offer any discounts. Thus the use of the word "MAY."

 

[EJ Gracie]

I forgot to mention that I did send a modified letter to the Disney people at the address mentioned on these boards.

 

[EJ Gracie]

Originally posted by Eeyore1954
And you have the financial data & statistics to support your contention that Disney is losing money? I would be interested to see it, if it's available.


See the poll Mr. Tommorrow quoted. Is it WDW's financial statement? Of course not. But I feel it is enough to justify my contentions.



It only affects those who have elevated expectations or who believe they are entitled to special treatment because of a prior purchase they made. The purchase of an AP did not create any contract forcing Disney to offer any discounts. Thus the use of the word "MAY."

Contract? No, perhaps. But there is a legal course of action called promissory estoppel which may be applicable where no contract exists. Look it up.

 

[glo]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I am asking that we respect that right and to be friendly and courteous when voicing our own opinions. There is no need to bash the opposing view or make someone feel bad about it. Please, let's just try to respect eachother and continue this thread in a civil manner.

 

[DrTomorrow]

EJ,

Hee hee hee - I love it when the legal terms get tossed around. I guess a Nazi reference must be next (old Usenet comment).

For those who are wondering, this from the 'legal information institute' at Cornell Law School:

Promissory Estoppel: The doctrine allowing recovery on a promise made without consideration when the reliance on the promise was reasonable, and the promisee relied to his or her detriment

So I guess it would come down to a legal finding that a) Disney made a promise to provide AP discounts for the time period in question, b) that it was reasonable for the promisee to rely on that promise, and c) that said reliance was detrimental. Now that's a Court TV case I'd like to see!

EJ, there's a difference between stating the raw numbers of a poll (what I did) and attempting to infer something from the percentage results (what you did). I can back up the raw data - check out the thread. I'd appreciate it if you could provide the sampling error and bias factors for the results of this poll, and address the population size issue. Then we can reasonably determine whose side is better supported.

To reiterate my side: Disney has, what 10,000 or 20,000 rooms (anyone? anyone? Bueller?) Let's say 10,000. Even if all 153 people who said they weren't staying onsite did so at the same time (highly unlikely), that would only be 153/10000 x 100 = 1.5% of their occupancy. Spread that out over the rest of the year (14 weeks) and you get 0.1%/week. I doubt that this is going to affect Disney. And I contend that the general public is much less concerned about AP discounts than DIS folks.

I'm glad you sent Disney a letter - I think that everyone who is dissatisfied with any service, anywhere. But I hope you didn't state that your opinion was the "Will of the boards"; as someone else above stated, it isn't.

Well, I promised to be oh, so pleasant. So now I'll start.

Erick

PS I have two PAP vouchers that will be worth much less if the AP discounts are eliminated. So sign me up for some of that Estoppel, please!