DDPers of "the world" unite, have the tip removed for bad service.

[rentayenta]

Again, not all service at all locations was bad. I did not keep experiencing bad service, this stems from one bad experience which caused me to consider how the system was put together in the first place and I believe that forcing the customer to tip is bad policy, bad for service and bad for the economy. Again, I have good reason to believe that by attitude and inflection she "forgot" the water on purpose. Again, as I was observing her while waiting to take my meds, she was not in the weeds nor too busy. Was I tired, yes, was it late, kinda, did she then proceed to treat us like second class diners the rest of the night, yes. I didn’t complain nor make a fuss that it took so long to get that first, last and only glass of water, I never got a chance too, we didn’t see her again till she brought the check after we had been done eating for quite some time. Was service great at other locations, yes. Did I leave an exceptional tip at Le Cellier for outstanding service, yes.

I was neither miserable nor unsatisfiable (I don’t think that is a word, but you catch my meaning), if she was having a bad night, that’s fine but taking it out on me is not acceptable. Again, I am amazed at the number of type of people that will defend this server's lack of professionalism and blame the customer. Sounds like someone never had a great customer... put the shoe on the other foot as I had some great servers

I like unsatisfiable, word or not! I think you are taking my post far too personally. I did not call you miserable or unsatisfiable. It was in reference to people I have served and unless you lived in or have been to So Cal, it couldn't have been you.


My point remains the same that not all good servers are tipped as they should be. Cheap and rude will prevail regardless of how outstanding the service is. That is just the way some people are are. I have no issues with not tipping when the service is poor. What is bothersome is that good service is highly subjective and therefore tipping is not consistent regardless of how fabulous the service was.

 

[wilde_oscar]

"Being the customer is absolutely a position of power, that is how the system works... you want to color me with a brush that I am rude, arrogant and elitist."

I don't think I you did that yourself by the second paragraph of your OP. The comment about the server smiling while you trained your dogs yelled at them.. etc.. didn't help either!

Hyperbole to make a point. My writing may be bad, but at least it is complete sentences.

hy·per·bo·le -noun

1. obvious and intentional exaggeration.
2. an extravagant statement or figure of speech not intended to be taken literally, as “to wait an eternity.”

 

[DisneylandForever]

forgive me, I am dashing off responses quickly between meetings and my fingers are not keeping up with my brain. If I was proofing, I'm sure I would have come up with something more whitty like "Either the wall paper goes or I do" and promptly died.

Or witty, even?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but is it possible that you embellished the whole "upper learning/I write for a paper" thing to make your opinions seem more valid? Not proofing is one thing. But dinning? Loosing? Then/Than? To/Too? The main reason I mention this is because you went out of your way to illustrate that "you know good service from bad service since you are, in fact, a food critic for a newspaper," yet your writing indicates otherwise. Unless you're ESL, of course.

Since it seems that servers get reimbursed anyway, and like somebody else said, "bad servers don't last long at WDW (which you have to assume given Disney's reputation)," doesn't that make this decision bad? We now have to pay more money. And since the service at WDW is far more often good than bad, I was quite okay with the 18% being added in.

 

[3jsmommy]

I never said anything about your writing. I understood your point. Maybe you missed mine when I said I prefered ethics over economics. Being condescending does nothing to help your argument. I should learn to stay away from posts that are dripping with negativity.

 

[Andy B]

I am from the UK so we have less of a tipping culture but tip Restaurants, cabs, hairdressers, the man who fitted the new kitchen but baseline is more likely to be 10% with some restaurants now suggesting 12.5 or 15%. But remember in the UK there is not the same low wage authomatic deductions like in the US.

Thw point I would like to make re. the OP is that if I had said that I wanted water to take medication I would expect that quickly as it is a requirement. Once that was not done then I think the OP would be justified in a bad opinion.

Last april we were in LA and went to Universal there. As we used to go the the Hard Roack in London when it was the only one we like to go to them when on our travels. There are me my DW, DS14 and DD 8.

Having checked in at the podium we were given a pager and told wait was about 30 mins, we then were not paged and returned to the podium after an hour and it was clear were were forgotton as the greeter had changed and the new one struggled to find our names. We still were not seated next and when we were it was at a table near the door which kept getting propped open.

We ordered 4 entrees and a salad to share. When the food arrived 2 were wrong and no salad, it took a long time for the order to come back, but still no salad. Refills had to be begged, the server did not come and check on us. Still no salad!


When the entrees were cleared I then asked a new server for service and made the point re salad and was then asked if they should bring it then.

I told the new server about what had happened and I asked to speak to the manager.

We were comped desert and the two wrong entrees. I was not a happy bunny but still tipped on the charged part of the meal.

What should I have done?

 

[PrincessTrisha]

The dining plan is not a fit for every person. For some it is too much food, for some it is the child offerings, for others it is the tip included.

Just because the dining plan (with it's included tip) doesn't work for you doesn't mean it should be changed for everyone.

The dining plan is what it is - if it don't like it, don't buy it.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Again, not all service at all locations was bad. I did not keep experiencing bad service, this stems from one bad experience which caused me to consider how the system was put together in the first place and I believe that forcing the customer to tip is bad policy, bad for service and bad for the economy.

Conversely, why did the fourteen positive - including two outstanding - experiences instead not cause you to consider how WELL the system was put in place, with the bad experience (or were there two?) being an anomaly?

 

[luvsJack]

Going back to the original post, I wondered why you didn't ask to speak to the manager while you were still at your table? I understand it would have taken a long wait at the end trying to take the tip off the bill , but I would have asked for the manager while we were still having dinner and complained about the bad service. In this way you are giving the manager the chance to rectify the situation while you are still considered a customer. Different managers would handle it different ways but, we were given a new server, the new person then went out of his way to make up for the bad service, and in turn made what could have been a bad experience, a very good one instead.

Incidently not leaving a tip (if not included in the DDP) does not always show a server that they have given bad service. Many times the server may just assume you are cheap or forgot.

Also, you know everyone can have a bad day. Even the best servers can get flustered and forget things or mess up if they are having an off day. Maybe someone is giving them a hard time behind the scenes, maybe they just had something bad happen in their lives; its very hard to see things from the other persons perspective.

And as for as it being someone's choice to be a server; that's not always the case. I worked as a server for years because I suddenly found myself the single parent of two young children and it was the only job I was qualified for at that time. The only choice I had was to wait tables or to go on welfare I did very well with tips and supported my children until I remarried and got the chance to learn something new, but for me it was NOT a choice.

 

[wilde_oscar]

Or witty, even?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but is it possible that you embellished the whole "upper learning/I write for a paper" thing to make your opinions seem more valid? Not proofing is one thing. But dinning? Loosing? Then/Than? To/Too? The main reason I mention this is because you went out of your way to illustrate that "you know good service from bad service since you are, in fact, a food critic for a newspaper," yet your writing indicates otherwise. Unless you're ESL, of course.

Since it seems that servers get reimbursed anyway, and like somebody else said, "bad servers don't last long at WDW (which you have to assume given Disney's reputation)," doesn't that make this decision bad? We now have to pay more money. And since the service at WDW is far more often good than bad, I was quite okay with the 18% being added in.

UG... wasn't and english major, than that was a loose preposition. The paper is an alternative newspaper, not sure how much detail I wanna put in to the word alternative. While you are bringing up a couple extra letters hither and fro help me find the area under the curve. I'll type slower and double proof my posts just for you.

 

[wilde_oscar]

I am from the UK so we have less of a tipping culture but tip Restaurants, cabs, hairdressers, the man who fitted the new kitchen but baseline is more likely to be 10% with some restaurants now suggesting 12.5 or 15%. But remember in the UK there is not the same low wage authomatic deductions like in the US.

Thw point I would like to make re. the OP is that if I had said that I wanted water to take medication I would expect that quickly as it is a requirement. Once that was not done then I think the OP would be justified in a bad opinion.

Last april we were in LA and went to Universal there. As we used to go the the Hard Roack in London when it was the only one we like to go to them when on our travels. There are me my DW, DS14 and DD 8.

Having checked in at the podium we were given a pager and told wait was about 30 mins, we then were not paged and returned to the podium after an hour and it was clear were were forgotton as the greeter had changed and the new one struggled to find our names. We still were not seated next and when we were it was at a table near the door which kept getting propped open.

We ordered 4 entrees and a salad to share. When the food arrived 2 were wrong and no salad, it took a long time for the order to come back, but still no salad. Refills had to be begged, the server did not come and check on us. Still no salad!


When the entrees were cleared I then asked a new server for service and made the point re salad and was then asked if they should bring it then.

I told the new server about what had happened and I asked to speak to the manager.

We were comped desert and the two wrong entrees. I was not a happy bunny but still tipped on the charged part of the meal.

What should I have done?

At the point where you realize there will be no salvage to the meal, ya should walk out. A key indicator wood half bend (I am putting in grammatical errors more frequently now that I have a chance to concentrate a bit more). The only problem with walking out in Disney, is that you will not get seated anywhere else because ADRs are already packed in tight.

Maybe I should refer to elements of style to help the English Majors with my prose.

 

[wilde_oscar]

The dining plan is not a fit for every person. For some it is too much food, for some it is the child offerings, for others it is the tip included.

Just because the dining plan (with it's included tip) doesn't work for you doesn't mean it should be changed for everyone.

The dining plan is what it is - if it don't like it, don't buy it.

Went during free DDP in Sept. of last year... didn't have enough knowledge before hand to understand how the system was put together. In fact the first Table Service meal, the server was double tipped as I did not know that tip was part of the package.

The nature of the topic and the debate is as to "weather" having the tip automagicly included is a detriment to level of service provided. I contend that the included tip diminishes the level of service.

 

[wilde_oscar]

Conversely, why did the fourteen positive - including two outstanding - experiences instead not cause you to consider how WELL the system was put in place, with the bad experience (or were there two?) being an anomaly?

Two bad dinning experiences, the second was not DDP related. As I have come to find out, Tony's is not the right place for us to eat. The various reviews of the restaurant indicate they are to be avoided. I remember that (there, their, they’re) location from when it was The Veranda and the dinning experience was beyond reproach, (should this be a comma or is it a run on sentence?) this is no longer the case.

When things are working you don't stop to consider how well they work. Mussolini made the trains run on time... because he shot people if the trains ran late, a great incentive program. At a buffet dinner, when you know what your tip will be, and don't up sell the alcohol to pad the tip, then treat the customer poorly, you cause someone to stop and think, yeah she was peeved that we were not spending extra to increase her tip and treated us poorly because of it. Guess you would have had to have been they’re to notice it, but it was oblivious. (can someone diagram that last sentence and get back to me on what is wrong with it?)

 

[just another guy]

The only problem with walking out in Disney, is that you will not get seated anywhere else because ADRs are already packed in tight.

and they'll simply charge your room for the food.

 

[DisneylandForever]

UG... wasn't and english major, than that was a loose preposition. The paper is an alternative newspaper, not sure how much detail I wanna put in to the word alternative. While you are bringing up a couple extra letters hither and fro help me find the area under the curve. I'll type slower and double proof my posts just for you.

No need. I live in SF and I know what the word alternative means. My point was simply that there was no need to stress your superior "education" and "professional" writing experience (especially when you can't even write) when presenting your opinion on a Dining Plan adjustment. It severely damages your credibility. My advice for next time is simply saying something like, "Hey all I am glad the DP will no longer include gratuities who's with me?" as opposed to (paraphrasing), "I am food writer and I worked at fine dinning place so I know more about good service then you."

This will be a long post as I feel the need to cover all the various glib, kneejerk defenses that people counter post defending bad service.

More advice: Maybe next time don't start a thread with this statement?

That is all! Carry on.

 

[wilde_oscar]

Going back to the original post, I wondered why you didn't ask to speak to the manager while you were still at your table? I understand it would have taken a long wait at the end trying to take the tip off the bill , but I would have asked for the manager while we were still having dinner and complained about the bad service. In this way you are giving the manager the chance to rectify the situation while you are still considered a customer. Different managers would handle it different ways but, we were given a new server, the new person then went out of his way to make up for the bad service, and in turn made what could have been a bad experience, a very good one instead.

Incidently not leaving a tip (if not included in the DDP) does not always show a server that they have given bad service. Many times the server may just assume you are cheap or forgot.

Also, you know everyone can have a bad day. Even the best servers can get flustered and forget things or mess up if they are having an off day. Maybe someone is giving them a hard time behind the scenes, maybe they just had something bad happen in their lives; its very hard to see things from the other persons perspective.

And as for as it being someone's choice to be a server; that's not always the case. I worked as a server for years because I suddenly found myself the single parent of two young children and it was the only job I was qualified for at that time. The only choice I had was to wait tables or to go on welfare I did very well with tips and supported my children until I remarried and got the chance to learn something new, but for me it was NOT a choice.

By this point in the trip, we had complained about lack of service once. It was made clear to us that those on free DDP were treated as second class diners. At Tony's I had to wait in line to complain to a manager, and the basic resolution was "you are eatting for free what do you expect". When it is late and your (you're) tired, and you know the resolution will be "you are eatting for free what do you expect". What are you left to do but sign the bill and leave.

And as I belive I made clear in the orginal post, complaing to a manager does not change that the service was already poor, and as we found out from the manager at Tony's, free DDP means they will comp nothing.

Not leaving a tip, if it is a trend and the server thinks that everyone forgot, or that everyone is cheap... well they didn't have a clue to begin with did they. If you are having a bad day, go home. If you are having a bad day, let the customer know you are aware that things are not going well, and offer to make corrections. People need to stop making excuses for poor service, the service was poor! By the time ya complain to the manager it is too late, by the time ya get a new server it is too late. At a resort megaplex they should be getting it right more then getting it wrong, which WDW is, however being forced to tip someone that gives bad service does not sit well with me and I welcome that the dip is being removed from the DDP package.

If you did well with tips, no doubt you were a great server!

 

[wilde_oscar]

and they'll simply charge your room for the food.

Ah but for this year's trip my ADRs are not linked to my room reservation!

 

[wilde_oscar]

No need. I live in SF and I know what the word alternative means. My point was simply that there was no need to stress your superior "education" and "professional" writing experience (especially when you can't even write) when presenting your opinion on a Dining Plan adjustment. It severely damages your credibility. My advice for next time is simply saying something like, "Hey all I am glad the DP will no longer include gratuities who's with me?" as opposed to (paraphrasing), "I am food writer and I worked at fine dinning place so I know more about good service then you."



More advice: Maybe next time don't start a thread with this statement?

That is all! Carry on.

Ug, do you take yourself too serious? As Buddy Cole would say... all this fuss about a couple extra "SSSSS". I have a good education, I was not an English Major, and I have found that English Majors tend to attack grammar and spelling when they have no basis to rebuke your argument otherwise. I was a math and physics major... the world should be amazed I can spell at all.

As for being a professional food critic… nope, not what I said, just what you heard when you read the words. We eat out a lot, and I offer the more common man opinion on the experience. I write the way I would talk to someone, not talk down to someone as you seem to think.

I worked in a fine place to shove food into your mouth whole, where folks like the wine and the live music. In other discussions I have been attacked be being low brow, fine I am low brow, I do not have a stick in a place that does not see sunshine very often… do you?

Lemme guess, you spend hours a week correcting the grammar on the Sopranos, and get the vapors at every malapropism?

As for credibility, you make my point by not attacking the argument but attacking the person. It is a internet board, how serious do you take it?

 

[DisneylandForever]

Lemme guess, you spend hours a week correcting the grammar on the Sopranos, and get the vapors at every malapropism?

As for credibility, you make my point by not attacking the argument but attacking the person. It is a internet board, how serious do you take it?

I don't watch the Sopranos. And I don't take this message board seriously enough to start a thread off by advising everyone that I'm only writing a lengthy post to preemptively thwart all of the "glib" or kneejerk" responses. Nor do I even make mention of how much my schooling cost. Perhaps you should re-read my previous messages? The grammatical advice was merely in addition to my opinion(s) on this topic. It was hardly an attack. I never bother correcting grammar on DIS. Mine is far from perfect. But by the way you started off your first post, you were practically begging somebody to mention it. I did, and moved on. Have you? In each of your responses to me, you completely glossed over my thoughts on the whole DP issue.

 

[kaytieeldr]

By this point in the trip, we had complained about lack of service once. It was made clear to us that those on free DDP were treated as second class diners. At Tony's I had to wait in line to complain to a manager, and the basic resolution was "you are eatting for free what do you expect". When it is late and your (you're) tired, and you know the resolution will be "you are eatting for free what do you expect". What are you left to do but sign the bill and leave.

. . . You, and the Tony's manager, may be surprised to discover that there were Guests onsite between mid-August and late September 2006 (the Free Dining Promotion period) who had paid for the Disney Dining Plan. The TTS manager had no way to know with absolute certainty whether you paid for the plan or got it free... unless you told him.
. . . Boma is not Tony's Town Square.
. . . Boma's management is not the same as Tony's management.
. . . You do not know how Boma management would have reacted, given that you did not make them aware there were problems.

Since you cannot, at this time, refuse to tip the server, your best recourse remains informing Disney NOW of your recent negative experience. It would be considerate to also report your fourteen positive dinners, including the two you found outstanding.

Perception is subjective. I take issue with the claim that "those on free DDP were treated as second class diners". My experience with the Disney Dining Plan has resulted in being treated exactly like every other diner. It never mattered what I ordered, what (if anything) I drank, who accompanied me...
Now, we can't all be getting second-class treatment. That would have been widely reported over the last year-and-a-half - and ideally fixed, given that Disney does read these forums.

Once again, you had fourteen meals that were good to exceptional. If any of those fourteen servers had treated you as second-class diners, you would not have stated here that those were positive experiences. Therefore, your two negative experiences appear to be the exception, disproving the claim that free dining results in second-class treatment.

(Psst! DisneylandForever! How's my grammar? )

 

[andrea2289]

It seems like many of you are taking this personally. The OP is allowed to voice a negative experience. I have read hundreds myself on Dis. He shouldn't 'have' to post of his positive experiences in the thread because that wasn't the issue of the thread....

The comments on his grammar (by more than one poster) actually made me laugh...are we in the third grade?

So he didn't do what you or I would have done (spoke with the manager, etc...) He said, they were exhausted and clearly had been there forever and just wanted to go...so what?

Sure all servers have bad days, but that is where communication is they key. Chuck your bad mood at the door and be a professional, but IF it affects your job, you owe your guests and explanation or an apology...if you want a tip!

This is an open board. There is nothing negative or 'wrong' about posting your opinions here. The point of the OP was:

"If you get bad service on the DDP should you be able to have the tip removed"

I vote YES – If I had received the kind of service the was described in the OP, I would not have wanted to leave a tip and it would have chapped my **** that she was getting 18% in spite of her bad service…