DDP and free dining ruining WDW restaurants!

[dumbo71]

Isn't this the same poster who was over on the DVC boards telling everyone that DVC has gone way downhill because he got a letter from them warning him about his commercial renting habits? I'm not sure I've ever seen a post from this person that hasn't been directed at stirring up crap.

Thanks for the kind words.

All you have to do is check all of my posts. Some are very harsh for sure but I see nothing wrong with providing a different perspective. You don't agree, well voice that. Sitting there speculating about my motives is just plain silly.

My motive is simple. As a DVC owner since 1992, I spend a great deal of time at WDW. On average I would say 3 weeks per year. In the past few years I've seen first hand a significant decline at WDW. I find that concerning. Not only does it potentially devalue my ownership if this continues it greatly impacts my enjoyment during my stays.

Here is a couple of examples: 1) While staying at BCV, we spent a day at the pool relaxing and enjoying the waterslides. Time for some lunch. My wife is a vegetarian so we have always ordered the garden burger from Beaches and Cream, go it from the To Go section and sit out by the pool at a table and eat. This is convenient and easy on my son as well. Well I go in to order and they tell me they now ONLY do ice cream to go. NOW WHAT! We have to go back to the room clean up, dry off and go inside to Beaches and Cream to eat. When we return there is a 30 minute wait.

Example 2: We are at OKW and after a long tiring day we come home and want to unwind in our condo. I tell my wife "don't worry about cooking" (we hadn't planed anything either). I'll order food TO GO from Olivias. I walk over to order figuring I'll just have a beer while I wait. I am then told sorry under NO circumstances do we do TO GO orders. I speak to the manager only to be told that it was a higher up decision directly related to the DDP DO YOU HEAR THAT LEWISC WITH ALL OF YOUR SPECULATIVE POSTS< DDP!
Now what????????? My familyis hungry and it is late. My son wants to eat and go to bed. We want some time alone. Sorry we have to drag evryone out to eat. NONSENSE.

These changes are impacting guest stays and that is wrong.

Lewisc is simply WRONG. I've done the leg work and actually spoken to employees, managers, chefs throughout WDW. Unanimously I've been told cuts are directly related to DDP and free dining. I've also been told there is no doubt that the guest experience has suffered from poor service and the loss of atmosphere with the packed restaurants.

 

[Chuck S]

I'm sure the DDP bears some, but probably not all, the responsibility for the streamlined menus. Post 9-11 tourism is finally starting to rebound, travel is up. I do not think Disney foresaw the popularity of the current (separately priced) dining plan as opposed to the way it was previously offered as part of a full travel package. That lack of foresight, along with increased travel, means that the restaurants have to have less specialized menus that can be prepared more quickly to satisfy the sheer number of guests, and enable them to more quickly "turn a table."

Plus, they are trying to maintain a sense of "value" for Disney as a total destination, thus leading to the need to have less prep time/kitchen personnel and somewhat less expensive offerings in general. While I do not like the current trend that the general dining at Disney seems to be taking, there are still some enjoyable experiences. Hollywood Brown Derby, breakfast at Olivia's (while I'm not too happy with the lunch and dinner menu changes), and Chefs de France were still highlights of our trip. And for non-park counter service, we enjoy the varied selection at POP.

We were quite disappointed, however, in the changes at Tony's Town Square. While the menu items pretty much "reads" the same, the pasta primavera, which used to be one of our favorites, was awful. It used to have fresh spinach and other tasty veggies. It has changed, it now has a heavy balsamic sauce with few fresh veggies, not tasty at all. However, I saw little in the way of fresh spinach used at WDW this trip...perhaps still fallout from the ecoli problem earlier this year? Disney takes a while to re-instate items (like the spinach) after a scare as some guests may still "have a problem" being comfortable with it on the menu.

BTW, I do understand the no "to go" orders being tied to the DDP. How many people would want the TS "to go" order for a Counter Service credit, as a to go order does not involve actual "table service?" I may not be happy with it, but I do understand the reasoning behind it.

 

[themudd4]

There are lots of factors that are causing these issue's and not just the DDP... I mean Year of a Million Dreams (while being a great promotion) has to be costing Disney alot more than the DDP is...

And let me be the first to say I will glady be the blame for that...PICK ME...make my dreams come true!

 

[MainStMandy]

Thanks for the kind words.

All you have to do is check all of my posts. Some are very harsh for sure but I see nothing wrong with providing a different perspective. You don't agree, well voice that. Sitting there speculating about my motives is just plain silly.

My motive is simple. As a DVC owner since 1992, I spend a great deal of time at WDW. On average I would say 3 weeks per year. In the past few years I've seen first hand a significant decline at WDW. I find that concerning. Not only does it potentially devalue my ownership if this continues it greatly impacts my enjoyment during my stays.

Here is a couple of examples: 1) While staying at BCV, we spent a day at the pool relaxing and enjoying the waterslides. Time for some lunch. My wife is a vegetarian so we have always ordered the garden burger from Beaches and Cream, go it from the To Go section and sit out by the pool at a table and eat. This is convenient and easy on my son as well. Well I go in to order and they tell me they now ONLY do ice cream to go. NOW WHAT! We have to go back to the room clean up, dry off and go inside to Beaches and Cream to eat. When we return there is a 30 minute wait.

Example 2: We are at OKW and after a long tiring day we come home and want to unwind in our condo. I tell my wife "don't worry about cooking" (we hadn't planed anything either). I'll order food TO GO from Olivias. I walk over to order figuring I'll just have a beer while I wait. I am then told sorry under NO circumstances do we do TO GO orders. I speak to the manager only to be told that it was a higher up decision directly related to the DDP DO YOU HEAR THAT LEWISC WITH ALL OF YOUR SPECULATIVE POSTS< DDP!
Now what????????? My familyis hungry and it is late. My son wants to eat and go to bed. We want some time alone. Sorry we have to drag evryone out to eat. NONSENSE.

These changes are impacting guest stays and that is wrong.

Lewisc is simply WRONG. I've done the leg work and actually spoken to employees, managers, chefs throughout WDW. Unanimously I've been told cuts are directly related to DDP and free dining. I've also been told there is no doubt that the guest experience has suffered from poor service and the loss of atmosphere with the packed restaurants.

So your definition of significant decline is that restaurants aren't offering to go options anymore??? I can understand not being "happy" about that, but I wouldn't call that a decline...that's what CS is for.

 

[jodifla]

So your definition of significant decline is that restaurants aren't offering to go options anymore??? I can understand not being "happy" about that, but I wouldn't call that a decline...that's what CS is for.

At OKW, there is extremely limited counter service, AND THAT"S THE PROBLEM.

 

[MainStMandy]

At OKW, there is extremely limited counter service, AND THAT"S THE PROBLEM.

That's not what the OP stated....They said that there is a significant decline at WDW (not at OKW specifically) and then used as examples two restaurants that no long allow To Go....

 

[jodifla]

That's not what the OP stated....They said that there is a significant decline at WDW (not at OKW specifically) and then used as examples two restaurants that no long allow To Go....

IMO, OP is completely accurate. THe DDP is having a profound effect on Disney dining, most of it bad.

The OKW to-go debacle is only the tip of the iceberg. Then when you go in, you find that the most interesting things have been yanked off the menu. There have been report after report about the declining service throughout WDW (although, much of it is still good).

There's no free lunch. All the "deals" people are getting on the DDP are causing them to slash the quality of the food.

Most people won't realize until it's too late, and most of the quality has been drained out of the WDW system. So, when they are sitting there looking at their TS 2credit meal of iceberg lettuce, baked chicken and sugar-free jell-o, all for the bargain price of $38, maybe THEN the lightbult will switch on in their head.

After years of flawless service and food at Yachtmen, in May I had a prime rib there that was not even worthy of Ponderosa. I didn't complain....but I darn sure from now on.

 

[Lewisc]

At OKW, there is extremely limited counter service, AND THAT"S THE PROBLEM.

I'll agree with that point. The counter service/food courts are limited in the deluxe hotels. Deluxe hotels generally offer in room dining to accommodate guests who want to eat in their room but are looking for more than a burger.

To go may have filled that limited need but I doubt Olivia's can't handle the potential demand of DDP guests. Nothing to do with what the restaurant is getting paid but an issue of volume. Same thing would have happened if "to go" became popular for other reasons.

I don't know if there is enough demand but offering the food from Olivia's for "in room dining" might be a compromise. You'd have to pay the delivery charges and DDP guests would be charged two credits. Both would limit demand.

TS 2credit meal of iceberg lettuce, baked chicken and sugar-free jell-o, all for the bargain price of $38

That's a one credit kids meal, cost is around $11 /credit. That credit also includes a snack worth $3-$5 and a CS meal.

Disney likes having full restaurants. Without DDP they would have done some other promotion so the offerings/price better reflect what customers are looking for. The food at LTT isn't great but I don't remember it being any better prior to the DDP. I'm talking about the quality of the "fresh turkey".

 

[Sammie]

It is all personal prespective. Some items have been removed. Some miss them, many don't. The majority rules in all things, and I am sure in this case too. Take out at Oliva's was removed due to abuse by guests. Some can blame the DDP for that, others can blame the abusers. Neither are wrong.

Problem is a few people want to dictate what is good for all. And when you don't agree with that, they insult you. I can't support anyone's opinion when the only way they can make a point is to insult someone that has a different opinion.

LewisC and I have many times disagreed and we have been able to refrain from insulting each other and have a mutual respect for the other's opinions. However there are a couple of people in this discussion that lately they seem to thrive on insulting anyone that disagrees the DDP is the root of world evil.

I like the DDP, I am not ashamed of that and I am entitled to like it just as much as anyone dislikes it. In the heart of Christmas spirit I however will refrain from name calling those that dislike it so.

Merry Christmas everyone.

 

[jodifla]

That's a one credit kids meal, cost is around $11 /credit. That credit also includes a snack worth $3-$5 and a CS meal.

.

I was projecting a bit...because I think that's where DDP TS adult meals are heading in a hurry.

 

[jessica52877]

Disney offers the dining plan for a reason. I do not believe you can sit here and say that it was a horrible decision for disney, if it was, it would be discontinued and surely not offered over and over for free. We have now gone for a week twice, both during free dining, before that we never went longer then a long weekend. My son is almost 4 and this is where he asks to go, because we have seen how much fun and how affordable disney can be for a week, we do it.

The wait staff is getting their tip still and honestly more then I would EVER tip at a buffet. I don't think filling my drink and clearing my plate once is worth $20, or 18% tip at all and don't tip that way at buffets.

As for not being able to walk into a restaurant, yes, it is frustrating, but like other posters have said, I have found plenty of options the morning of or even when we wanted to eat. The key is to be flexible, which I am. It seems others aren't so flexible and that is where the problem arrises. I do not enjoy planning where I'll eat 180 days out, but I do and I change it as necessary. Vacation is supposed to be relaxing therefore I will not run around to eat somewhere specific, instead I will check my options.

I feel as if disney is now filling there dining rooms which is good for disney. I honestly have never cared much for disney food and to be cruise food is even worse. But I have to take into account that they are serving hundreds and hundreds of people daily!

Around here I can't walk into a restaurant and not expect a wait, so why should I expect it somewhere else. To each their own! Have a disney day!

 

[ransom]

Our first experience with Disney dining was last week, Dec 8-16.

We ate at Roaring Fork for breakfast most days, but also had an ADR for Whispering Canyon one day and one for Crystal Palace another day. Most lunches were counter service at whatever park we were at that day. Dinners were ADRs at resorts, except for the Fantasmic! package that included dinner at Mama Malrose's.

We had dinners at Whispering Canyon, Concourse Steakhouse, Artist Point, San Angel Inn, California Grill, Mama Melrose's, Rose and Crown, and Grand Floridian Cafe.

We enjoyed them all. The least of our dinner experiences were on par with a chain restaurant, but the best were truly wonderful. Presentation was always excellent and appropriate to the restaurant. The wait staff were always friendly. We were always seated quickly, and were never made to feel rushed.

The only quibbles we have are that it would have been nice if San Angel had more regional dishes, and if California Grill had been offering lobster. But every menu had at least two dishes from which it was hard to choose, so we can't really complain about the choices we were offered.

Oh, and as for getting ADRs in advance, we walked into Prime Time Cafe at 11 AM on Wednesday the 13th. We had no ADR, but we were seated immediately. I doubt we'd have been able to do that at 12, or even at 11:30, and that's why we made sure to get there early. We were very happy to get a table there without an ADR, and it was one of the (many, many) highlights of our trip.

So, the dining plan was great for us. That was our experience as first-timers anyway. If we went back every few months for several years, I'm sure we'd be sick of the food. But for us, it worked out very nicely indeed (and I didn't even mention how many hundreds of dollars we saved on the plan).

 

[Lewisc]

I was projecting a bit...because I think that's where DDP TS adult meals are heading in a hurry.

The prior, low cost meal plan, became a flop when it became nothing more than a pre-paid discount deal.

Disney can certainly lower the meals to the level you're projecting BUT they'll then have to offer the dining plan for free 365 days a year.

You still haven't answered my question. What's wrong with just dining at blueZoo, Shula's, Bistro, Fulton's, V&A etc? Those restaurants charge whatever is necessary to serve the level of food they think their customers are willing to purchase.

I have no doubt Disney would have excluded a couple of restaurants if they thought there were enough customers willing to pay $75-$100 /head (after any discounts).

 

[ntsammy5]

We have used the DDP twice. Once we paid and once it was free (well not really free, but almost).

We've been going to WDW for years and we have eaten at most of the TS restaurants at least once. We have noticed a slight degradation in the choices but definitely no degradation in the food quality or service.

I think the DDP is a great bargain and offers those who want it an opportunity to eat at some vary nice restaurants for a reasonable price. Having said that, I'm not sure we will use it again soon, because our entire vacation revolves around eating when we've had the DDP.

I can make my own ADRs and pay OOP when we go next in 2007 for the restaurants we really want to eat at. Nothing against the DDP or those who use it, but frankly I can't eat that much.

By the way, for those saying that there are few walk ups available, when we were at the World the end of September we ate at Le Cellier, one of the hardest to get an ADR and we saw 3 walk ups of 4 each! Go figure.....

 

[dumbo71]

I'm sure the DDP bears some, but probably not all, the responsibility for the streamlined menus. Post 9-11 tourism is finally starting to rebound, travel is up. I do not think Disney foresaw the popularity of the current (separately priced) dining plan as opposed to the way it was previously offered as part of a full travel package. That lack of foresight, along with increased travel, means that the restaurants have to have less specialized menus that can be prepared more quickly to satisfy the sheer number of guests, and enable them to more quickly "turn a table."

Plus, they are trying to maintain a sense of "value" for Disney as a total destination, thus leading to the need to have less prep time/kitchen personnel and somewhat less expensive offerings in general. While I do not like the current trend that the general dining at Disney seems to be taking, there are still some enjoyable experiences. Hollywood Brown Derby, breakfast at Olivia's (while I'm not too happy with the lunch and dinner menu changes), and Chefs de France were still highlights of our trip. And for non-park counter service, we enjoy the varied selection at POP.

We were quite disappointed, however, in the changes at Tony's Town Square. While the menu items pretty much "reads" the same, the pasta primavera, which used to be one of our favorites, was awful. It used to have fresh spinach and other tasty veggies. It has changed, it now has a heavy balsamic sauce with few fresh veggies, not tasty at all. However, I saw little in the way of fresh spinach used at WDW this trip...perhaps still fallout from the ecoli problem earlier this year? Disney takes a while to re-instate items (like the spinach) after a scare as some guests may still "have a problem" being comfortable with it on the menu.

BTW, I do understand the no "to go" orders being tied to the DDP. How many people would want the TS "to go" order for a Counter Service credit, as a to go order does not involve actual "table service?" I may not be happy with it, but I do understand the reasoning behind it.

Chuck is a much more sensible and obviously more reasonable guy than I am.

If I'm reading his post correctly he is agreeing with almost everything I've posted here.

Now Sammy alludes to name calling? Where? My argument is posted strongly but fairly.

 

[dumbo71]

So your definition of significant decline is that restaurants aren't offering to go options anymore??? I can understand not being "happy" about that, but I wouldn't call that a decline...that's what CS is for.

My definition of decline includes all of the things I've mentioned. Loss of To GO options, ( CS and TO GO are two different things. Why should I be forced to eat CS garbage?), removal of many items on menus to streamline costs, poor service due to the lack of incentive for a good tip and simply being too busy, reduced portion sizes, etc.

Why defend the plan? If you like it show WDW by using it.

WDW is the real problem here not the customers saving money with the plan. THey lacked the foresight of the problems asociated with the plan. As the former owner of three highly succesful restaurasnts they should have consulted someone who knows what they were doing. These problems were easily forecast.

This plan will be drastically altered or removed IMO, so enjoy while it lasts. Thewy are losing money by the day as it stands.

 

[SoarinJ]

Why defend the plan? If you like it show WDW by using it.

I do, many others do as well. If you don't like it, please don't use it.

This plan will be drastically altered or removed IMO, so enjoy while it lasts. Thewy are losing money by the day as it stands.

Do you have any statistics to back this up? The articles I read (I will have to search for them) showed occupancy rates on the rise and per guest spending up as well. The point of offering the DDP and Magical Express was to keep all the spending - tockets, lodging, food, gifts, entertainment on site - and it is working.

In God we may trust, all others, please bring data.

 

[Chuck S]

Chuck is a much more sensible and obviously more reasonable guy than I am.

If I'm reading his post correctly he is agreeing with almost everything I've posted here.

Now Sammy alludes to name calling? Where? My argument is posted strongly but fairly.

Actually, no. I'm agreeing menus have changed in many cases. I'm NOT agreeing that the DDP is solely, or even mostly, responsible for those changes, that many factors play a role in this type of decision.

I'm also not saying that most Disney restaurants have taken a turn for the worse, many (especially the "signature" venues) are still very good experiences, and have well prepared food...some are not so great, like our recent experience at Tony's, or Olivia's for lunch/dinner. BTW, we also had lunch at Concourse Steak House, we had not eaten there for years, and the hamburger was delicious, though had a little too much blue cheese (and I like blue cheese.) We never received "poor service" from the servers, even at Tony's.

Remember, that for sheer numbers, Disney restaurants run literally at least a few thousand people through in a day. To accomodate those numbers, food can't be too complicated/time consuming to prepare and this also imposes limits on the menu offerings and leads to overall menu standardization. Some restaurants still have some tasty non-standard offerings. Add to that the ability to prepare limited "last minute" items to accomodate personal tastes and food allergies, and overall I think Disney does a good job trying to please everyone.

I do miss the "to go" options at resort full service restaurants, but understand the reason for the rule. I don't know if park restaurants ever offered "to go" as there is no way to properly store the food and insure its safety with no refrigeration.

OKW never had much in the way of counter service, which is why it was nice to have Olivia's offer the "to go" option in the past. Now that that option is gone, we eat more off-site or drive over to POP for their food court selections, as we prefer our "big meal" at lunch and a lighter dinner.

 

[Lucky82061]

Why defend the plan? If you like it show WDW by using it.

WDW is the real problem here not the customers saving money with the plan. THey lacked the foresight of the problems asociated with the plan. As the former owner of three highly succesful restaurasnts they should have consulted someone who knows what they were doing. These problems were easily forecast.

Now you say this... and in the beginning you said...

Thank you to all of the DDP and free dining users. You have helped ruin dining at WDW and things will only get worse.

What do you care? You saved a few bucks, right.

So blame the user's and insult them... but tell them to use it instead of debating the points with you?

So I assume by what you are saying, that IF the DDP was absolved right this second and no longer offered, everything would return to what it was? You mean the corporate office wouldn't want to just keep things the way they are and keep the increased profit margin.. and now without having to provide any service in return??

They knew what they were doing. They increased onsite visitors. They put more bodies in rooms at slower times of the year. They hooked families into staying on longer trips by the MYW pricing. They added the DDP so people would stay on-site at all times, which leads to increased spending on souveneirs/gifts/etc. Love or hate the DDP, it is doing what it was meant to do.

 

[Lewisc]

Actually Disney forecast the problem with free dining, not enough restaurant capacity to handle the number of guests who had dining packages.

Disney had the foresight to solve the problem. Some restaurants, like Boma, extended their dinner hours. Other restaurants, like Chef Mickey's, added lunch. Disney added a temporary TS restaurant in the MK. Disney allowed guests to trade in TS credits for CS meals, some guests liked that option. Finally Disney decided to allow guests to use their credits for in room dining.

The food at Chef Mickey's, LTT and Tony's wasn't that great before the dining plan. Long before the dining plan I was served a raw chop at Tony's, the "chef" thought they were pre-cooked and only had to browned.

You're not forced to eat "CS garbage" but TS restaurants are now just that TABLE SERVICE not take out. Blame Disney/DVC for not putting the kind of CS restaurant that serves food you want to eat in OKW.

The number of posters reporting bad service is very low.

I haven't read any reports that suggest Disney is losing money with dining. The plan currently allocates around $26/ adult TS credit. LTT costs $27.99. A guest with the DDE card pays $22. Add the tip and it's a wash. I think the CS credit allocates around $8-$10. The majority of CS restaurants cost around that for a combo. The guest is getting a free dessert, maybe free fries and/or a drink.

If you believe the internet every CS credit is being used at the Pepper Market and every TS is being maxed out at Le Cellier or Chefs de France. Assume an "average guest" eats at "average restaurants" and the savings is a little more than the 20% DDE, with tax and some snacks thrown in.

The DDP is a good plan for the customer but not so good that Disney is losing money with it.

My definition of decline includes all of the things I've mentioned. Loss of To GO options, ( CS and TO GO are two different things. Why should I be forced to eat CS garbage?), removal of many items on menus to streamline costs, poor service due to the lack of incentive for a good tip and simply being too busy, reduced portion sizes, etc.

Why defend the plan? If you like it show WDW by using it.

WDW is the real problem here not the customers saving money with the plan. THey lacked the foresight of the problems asociated with the plan. As the former owner of three highly succesful restaurasnts they should have consulted someone who knows what they were doing. These problems were easily forecast.

This plan will be drastically altered or removed IMO, so enjoy while it lasts. Thewy are losing money by the day as it stands.