DD Drama - at my wit's end (sorry so long) ***Update post 127***

So how long did it take for you to realize what you had known deep down for awhile?

We were married for 3 years but it was only bad maybe the last year and a half or maybe 2 years. It started as isolating me from my friends and family. Then it turned to emotioal abuse, talling me I was stupid, etc. Then he wouldnt let me go anywhere without him without causing a huge argument. He was the only one working so he held the purse strings. Once I left and went to my parents and he called and said if I didnt get home right then he would throw my cat out in the street - just mean stuff like that. I would be trying to sleep and he would flip on the overhead light and force me to "talk" aka argue about something, anything. But the first time he hit me, I was GONE. We had a normal courtship and a normal wedding but things changed and even though he may not be doing things like this NOW, thats no guarantee.

Watch for him isolating her from friends and family. That is usually the first step since then, the abuser can do what they want with of fear of anyone accidentally finding out.
 
OP: :grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:

I read your original post and jumped to the last page, so I do not know the updates but wanted to say that you are in my thoughts!! :grouphug:
 
Big hugs and reassurances that you are a very caring mom or else you wouldn't be beside yourself about all this. She's lucky to have you.

Can I step waaaaaaaaaaaaaay back here?

Besides the biological father issues, what is going on in your daughter's head where her confidence and self-esteem are so shot that she's willing to live like this? Does she feel smart, pretty, talented, well-liked? How does she see herself? What are her friends saying?

There's a part of me that feels like once this guy eventually goes (and he will eventually go - hopefully sooner than later - much sooner) another loser will pop up to take his place unless something can be done to address the underlying issues.
 

Big hugs and reassurances that you are a very caring mom or else you wouldn't be beside yourself about all this. She's lucky to have you.

Can I step waaaaaaaaaaaaaay back here?

Besides the biological father issues, what is going on in your daughter's head where her confidence and self-esteem are so shot that she's willing to live like this? Does she feel smart, pretty, talented, well-liked? How does she see herself? What are her friends saying?

There's a part of me that feels like once this guy eventually goes (and he will eventually go - hopefully sooner than later - much sooner) another loser will pop up to take his place unless something can be done to address the underlying issues.

Caradana-
Thank you for your kind words!!! I have tried many times to try to come up with some reasoning concerning her confidence and self-esteem but continually end up empty handed. She was nominated Best Looking of her Senior Class in May, she's extremely talented in sports, her grades this year were not the best...senioritis hit really bad really early.

There is one thing that eats away at me though. The boyfriends she has had in between times have been very driven, polite, respectable boys and she pushes each and every one of them away!!! It's as if she does not see herself worthy. I ask myself....where the heck did this come from?!?!?! I have absolutely NO answer to this question!
 
well I hope she gets away... and safely... and sooooon and goes to college... I guess we can all play from the peanut galery on what we would do....
I hate bulleys.....er abusers.....
 
When it comes time to pay the bill for college, don't do it if she's still 'getting away.' She's got to learn the consequences of her actions somehow. If she wants to make grownup decisions, she'll have to pay her own way. She should know that she is welcome home anytime-don't trap her with that boy. But, if she chooses to stay with him, do not support her financially.
 
I would definitely start by calling his parents and telling them she does not have your permission to be there. Be nice and try to get their support. It's possible she or the boyfriend have told them some sob story about her getting kicked out or something.
This is an excellent idea. I've heard of more than one boy's family who took in a poor little girlfriend whose parents were so mean and controlling . . . when the reality was actually quite different.

You cannot force her to come home legally, BUT if I were his parents, I wouldn't keep her in my home knowing that her parents disapproved.
But, remember 45 minutes is NOT going to keep these two apart.
That is not even going to begin to stop this individual.
You're absolutely right. Even sending her to college in another state isn't going to keep this loser away. He's obsessive-dangerous, and since he owns a car he can easily get to her college anytime he pleases. The only answer is for HER to decide that she has to get rid of this guy.

Is he the only guy she's ever really dated?
I'd be willing to bet she's headed to college and he's not; he's afraid she's going to "outgrow him" or become "better than him" and that's what's triggered this behavior. He fears "letting her go away" because he knows she's likely to meet people more her own caliber.
I'd be willing to bet she thinks that if she dumps him, she'll be alone forever because no one else will ever want her.
I'd be willing to bet he's saying things like, "You've slept with me and no one else will ever want you", or "I'm the best you'll ever do", or "You're lucky to have me to take care of you because you're so pathetic."
Guys like him rely upon lies like this.
I wouldn't be surprised if he was interested in becoming a father; in his mind, a baby would cement her to his side forever.

I don't know how close my guesses are, but IF I'm on the right track, the only answer is SELF-CONFIDENCE and the belief that she deserves better. Much better.
I am just thinking about how the woman being trapped with no transportation, no communication (cell), etc.... is the absolute dream situation for this kind of psychotic controller/abuser.
Nah, I don't think those things make her any safer. I assume he's bigger /stronger than she is, and he could very easily take the keys away from her, break the phone -- in minutes, those "safety items" could disappear -- sorry, but it's true. I vote for taking them away in hopes of helping her see the light more quickly. Don't be an enabler; don't help her to live comfortably in a situation that is not good for her. It's a matter of natural consequences; she chooses to turn her back on your family to be with him, and she looses your material support.

However, you should make it abundantly clear that she can change her mind at any time and come back home without consequences -- BUT she has to leave him behind, move forward with plans for college, agree to live by your rules, etc.

Perhaps she'd agree to meet you for lunch periodically. Just you and her. Lunch is very non-committal. Don't rag on him from the get-go, but let her tell you how things are going. Halfway through lunch ask her about her plans for the next year, the next five years, etc. At 18 she should have some plans. If she complains about him, don't bad-mouth him -- that'll drive her farther into his arms -- but remind her gently that she has other choices.

Is she working? Does she have money of her own? Is she "allowed" to keep it for her own purposes?
 
Is he the only guy she's ever really dated?
I'd be willing to bet she's headed to college and he's not; he's afraid she's going to "outgrow him" or become "better than him" and that's what's triggered this behavior. He fears "letting her go away" because he knows she's likely to meet people more her own caliber.
I'd be willing to bet she thinks that if she dumps him, she'll be alone forever because no one else will ever want her.
I'd be willing to bet he's saying things like, "You've slept with me and no one else will ever want you", or "I'm the best you'll ever do", or "You're lucky to have me to take care of you because you're so pathetic."
Guys like him rely upon lies like this.
I wouldn't be surprised if he was interested in becoming a father; in his mind, a baby would cement her to his side forever.

I don't know how close my guesses are, but IF I'm on the right track, the only answer is SELF-CONFIDENCE and the belief that she deserves better. Much better.
Nah, I don't think those things make her any safer. I assume he's bigger /stronger than she is, and he could very easily take the keys away from her, break the phone -- in minutes, those "safety items" could disappear -- sorry, but it's true. I vote for taking them away in hopes of helping her see the light more quickly. Don't be an enabler; don't help her to live comfortably in a situation that is not good for her. It's a matter of natural consequences; she chooses to turn her back on your family to be with him, and she looses your material support.

However, you should make it abundantly clear that she can change her mind at any time and come back home without consequences -- BUT she has to leave him behind, move forward with plans for college, agree to live by your rules, etc.

Perhaps she'd agree to meet you for lunch periodically. Just you and her. Lunch is very non-committal. Don't rag on him from the get-go, but let her tell you how things are going. Halfway through lunch ask her about her plans for the next year, the next five years, etc. At 18 she should have some plans. If she complains about him, don't bad-mouth him -- that'll drive her farther into his arms -- but remind her gently that she has other choices.

Is she working? Does she have money of her own? Is she "allowed" to keep it for her own purposes?

Believe it or not, he actually is not the only guy she's ever dated....just the only "bad" guy. She has boys calling her constantly wanting to take her out on dates to the movies, dinner, you name it.

I'm sure he'd LOVE it if she didn't go away to college. His family is of the mindset that women should not work and men should be the breadwinner. Guess her upbringing puts a kink in that philosophy for them. I have ALWAYS preached to her that a woman should NEVER depend on a man financially or any other ways for that matter. I was a single mother until she was 5 y/o...she knows of my struggles.

Thankfully her BFF had a baby in January. In 5 short months, she has seen the struggles BFF is having and is adamant about the fact that she is waiting to start a family AFTER she graduates college and is established in a career.

Thank you for your insight!!!
 
oh LORDY does this bring back some bad memories for me

I won't make any suggestions, because anything I'd have to say has already been said.

I just hope that everything works out and that your daughter comes to her senses and remains safe!

Good luck :grouphug:
 
oh LORDY does this bring back some bad memories for me

I won't make any suggestions, because anything I'd have to say has already been said.

I just hope that everything works out and that your daughter comes to her senses and remains safe!

Good luck :grouphug:

Thank you so much...your kind words are truly appreciated!!!
 
Believe it or not, he actually is not the only guy she's ever dated....just the only "bad" guy. She has boys calling her constantly wanting to take her out on dates to the movies, dinner, you name it.
Hmm. I would've put money on the idea that she'd never really dated. The situation just seems to scream, "One and only". However, that's good -- she KNOWS she has other options, even if she doesn't really believe it on an emotional level.
Thankfully her BFF had a baby in January. In 5 short months, she has seen the struggles BFF is having and is adamant about the fact that she is waiting to start a family AFTER she graduates college and is established in a career.
Good. At least she's crystal clear on the challenges that she'd face IF she took that route. I still wouldn't be surprised if HE wasn't interested in a baby now; it seems consistant with his personality.

Good luck!
 
Also forgot to add....she is supposed to be attending college 45 minutes away from home. We have a satellite campus two miles from our home, but I have told her she needs to go "away" to have the college experience. I will NOT change my stance on that decision. If she thinks she'll stay in town and go to school because he is here, she's got another thing coming (and yes, she knows this).

45 minutes away is nothing. Easy 1 hour trip.

Keep telling her that you love her. I am afraid the more you harp on her about him, the closer you are going to drive them together. You won't be able to take her to a safe home for abused women due to privacy issues, I would imagine. And I am not sure how much effect it would have on her, because in her mind their situation is not that bad.

Be there to support her. If she decides to move out, then she should be on her own for college expenses, vehicle, apt, etc. She would still be welcome to come and see you, for an occasional meal, but the bank of mom and dad should be closed.

Good luck!:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:
 
OP, I think you've got to play this very carefully at this point. Tough love is great in some cases but NOT in this one! She's not being a spoiled brat - she's a young woman with dangerously low self esteem. The more you fight and argue with her, the more certain she becomes that he is the only one who "loves" her. She could very easily end up in the position of thinking she has no choice but to stay with him, after all Mom is done with her - what else can she do?

Keep talking to her. When she gets home do whatever you have to do - hock everything you own if you must, but put her in the car or on a plane and go somewhere - just the two of you. Call it a vacation, whatever. Just take her somewhere he isn't for a week or two and re-connect. Try and get her focus back on her goals. And PLEASE reconsider the college 45 minutes away!
That will not help. She needs to be a long plane ride away!

I have a daughter in college and I've been sooooooooo close to where you are right now. :sad2:
 
Yes, DD and my mom are VERY close!! You see, that's another story in itself. Ex-husband and I were divorced when I was 7 months pregnant w/DD. He had NOTHING to do with her her entire life. Let my DH adopt her when she was in 5th grade. Since I was a single mother and working, she stayed with my mom and dad while I worked, but was with me every second of the day when I was off.

I figure this whole mess has something to do with her issues with her biological father in some way shape or form.

I really and truly feel her going to college (even though it is 45 min. away) would be the best thing for her. I'm hoping that she'll get so involved with activities down there that she won't give him a second thought. We took her to orientation just last week and she was so excited to get involved in community service programs and looking at sororities. She will also be living in a dorm with a girl from our town. The dorm has rules about overnight guests so hopefully that will keep the jerk from crashing there. *Keeping my fingers crossed* Her new roommate is a girl that has a good head on her shoulders and will be a wonderful influence on DD. I truly think that once she gets down there, life will hopefully look a little rosier for her.


It sounds like you may be able to get her to forget about him, which is good and is needed, but from the signs he's been giving, your problem is getting HIM to leaver her alone, and honestly I doubt 45 minutes is going to do that. I know I said this before, and I know this isn't the plan for you guys right now, but honestly, is there anyway you could get her in college out of state somewhere? I know tuition is a ton higher ect., but in these types of situations, even if the victim is over the abuser, it really doesn't solve anything. He's the problem, and he will make sure he has all the power and in his mind, and unfortunately in reality, he's the one that's going to have to decide when it's over. I'm thinking if he's relatively young, has something to do, then maybe enough miles between them (because I'm sure eventually he'd talk you dd into telling him where she is) then maybe he'll let it go, and won't think it's worth it, but I really really don't think 45 minutes is going to do it, and trust me when I say it'll only get worse... he'll only get worse, more possessive, abusive ect. and she'll sink in deeper. If it were my dd, knowing what I know now, I would get her out of state. Like I said before, I know it sounds extreme, but I would give anything to be able to go back 5 years or so, and had my sister out of state. Good luck to you and your dd:hug:
Also, you said they've been together for a long time, do you know his parents? If so, I'd explain to them my concerns. -You'll have to be very careful in how you approach them, but I'd still voice my concerns, if I thought they give a crap, although maybe he has crap for parents?? If they're decent ppl. I'd voice my concerns, and while I'm sure they won't be happy with you, I'd say it's worth a shot. And yes, you need to tell your dd that she can always count on you, no matter what, and that when she's ready you'll do anything you can to get her out and help her. Also, I wouldn't cut her off for college, but I wouldn't give her cash, as it could easily be given to the jerk. I'd agree still to pay for her college, I'd make sure she knew that you're only paying for each class/credit once, so if she doesn't pass, then she'll be paying next time ect., but I agree that I don't think cutting her off for college is correct. Basically anything else financially I'd set rules, and if they weren't followed, I'd be fine cutting her off, but not college, she needs to have something going for her.
 
I don't post a lot and am pretty private, so I cannot believe I am going to share this, but something inside me was insisting I tell you my story to help your daughter.

When I was in high school I got straight A's, played three sports, on student counsel, you name it...I was a good girl who did not drink or smoke had good manners and minded my parents. I don't think my parents had one complaint about me until I fell for a guy that I was on the track team with my sophomore year. We were very middle class, not a lot of extras, but my parents were both college educated and I always knew I would go to college. The young man had been tossed around from relative to relative and worked after school at a gas station and my parents said that he would never be "good enough and I deserved better", but in reality, they did not like us dating because he was black and I was white and it was the 80s in rural East Texas. I still remained a good girl, doing everything "right", but I fought them tooth and nail on this one subject and kept seeing him. There was really nothing wrong with him--he was a nice guy from a poor family and didn't have much, but hey, my family wasn't that far ahead--it was really all about race and me embarrasing them in front of their friends because he was black--and I was appalled at the hypocrisy of it. Nothing they said could convince me that he was not right for me. As I look back now, if they had just chilled and let us see each other, it would have disolved on its own, because I really did want to go to college (it was three hours away) and once I got there, I am pretty sure we would have drifted apart and gone our separate ways. Between my sophomore year and end of senior year, they pulled the financial card--(if you live under our roof, you do what we tell you)--beginning with we will take away your car (so I rode my bike until I got a job and bought my own), and ending with we will not pay for you to go to college (so I said fine, I will be with him and I will figure it out).

I was convinced they were wrong about him and that they did not love me enough to trust me to make good decisions, instead they wanted to control me with the purse strings. Even though the guys in the two stories are not the same, and I do share your concerns about the classic signs of an abuser in him, I can see that your daughter might feel the same way I did. You are in a tough situation. Again, I truly feel if my parents had backed off and not put so much pressure on me about dumping him, I probably would have come to the same conclusion much earlier, but the "conditional love" I was getting from them only made me turn to him more.

How did my story end? Well, the summer after I graduated I made up my mind that I could do anything I set my mind to and I loved him, so I would just leave home, live with him, and we would figure out the college thing later. I was sick to death of all my mom's threats and the conditional love thing hurt me to no end--I was a really really good kid and it hurt so much and made me angry that she was willing to throw me away just because I was in love with someone she did not approve of. I left, but that night, thank goodness, he broke up with me. I said he cared about me too much for me to mess up my future and did not want to be responsible for me missing out on college or having to go to the local community college. He gave me no choice and sent me back home. I cried and resisted and cried some more, but today I am so greatful to him for doing that. If he had let me stay with him, I am pretty sure my parents would have made good on their threat to cut me off completely financially, we would have gotten married and my life would have been so different. Not necessarily bad, but very different--no four year college degree, no law degree, no traveling all over the world. I saw him about five years ago and asked him why. He said he knew that we could have gotten married and "made it", but he knew that I could be so much more with the opportunity to go to college that my parents would pay for and that it would be so much easier for me that way.

Although I agree that children should respect the rules of their home and agree with cell phones, cars, etc being taken away as punishment for breaking those rules, I am afraid that your daughter may call your bluff if you take a hard line on not paying for college if she keeps living with him or seeing him. I think you should still pay for her college, to (1) get her away from his house (At least if she is living at the dorm at her college, she's not living with him!) and (2) once she gets to college, it is very likely he will not fit in her life/lifestyle anymore. It is too bad that she is not going further away than 45 minutes. And I totally agree that she needs to see a professional that can be unbiased in explaining to her about domestic violence and how it starts small and escalates and classic signs of an abuser. She may protest that she is not in that type of relationship, but at least maybe the signs will start adding up in her head and she will get out sooner rather than later.

Again, I cannot believe I am posting this, but for some reason a little voice is telling me it may help someone.
 
OP, I think you've got to play this very carefully at this point. Tough love is great in some cases but NOT in this one! She's not being a spoiled brat - she's a young woman with dangerously low self esteem. The more you fight and argue with her, the more certain she becomes that he is the only one who "loves" her. She could very easily end up in the position of thinking she has no choice but to stay with him, after all Mom is done with her - what else can she do?


Another excellent point!!! Truly appreciated!!
 
I don't post a lot and am pretty private, so I cannot believe I am going to share this, but something inside me was insisting I tell you my story to help your daughter.

When I was in high school I got straight A's, played three sports, on student counsel, you name it...I was a good girl who did not drink or smoke had good manners and minded my parents. I don't think my parents had one complaint about me until I fell for a guy that I was on the track team with my sophomore year. We were very middle class, not a lot of extras, but my parents were both college educated and I always knew I would go to college. The young man had been tossed around from relative to relative and worked after school at a gas station and my parents said that he would never be "good enough and I deserved better", but in reality, they did not like us dating because he was black and I was white and it was the 80s in rural East Texas. I still remained a good girl, doing everything "right", but I fought them tooth and nail on this one subject and kept seeing him. There was really nothing wrong with him--he was a nice guy from a poor family and didn't have much, but hey, my family wasn't that far ahead--it was really all about race and me embarrasing them in front of their friends because he was black--and I was appalled at the hypocrisy of it. Nothing they said could convince me that he was not right for me. As I look back now, if they had just chilled and let us see each other, it would have disolved on its own, because I really did want to go to college (it was three hours away) and once I got there, I am pretty sure we would have drifted apart and gone our separate ways. Between my sophomore year and end of senior year, they pulled the financial card--(if you live under our roof, you do what we tell you)--beginning with we will take away your car (so I rode my bike until I got a job and bought my own), and ending with we will not pay for you to go to college (so I said fine, I will be with him and I will figure it out).

I was convinced they were wrong about him and that they did not love me enough to trust me to make good decisions, instead they wanted to control me with the purse strings. Even though the guys in the two stories are not the same, and I do share your concerns about the classic signs of an abuser in him, I can see that your daughter might feel the same way I did. You are in a tough situation. Again, I truly feel if my parents had backed off and not put so much pressure on me about dumping him, I probably would have come to the same conclusion much earlier, but the "conditional love" I was getting from them only made me turn to him more.

How did my story end? Well, the summer after I graduated I made up my mind that I could do anything I set my mind to and I loved him, so I would just leave home, live with him, and we would figure out the college thing later. I was sick to death of all my mom's threats and the conditional love thing hurt me to no end--I was a really really good kid and it hurt so much and made me angry that she was willing to throw me away just because I was in love with someone she did not approve of. I left, but that night, thank goodness, he broke up with me. I said he cared about me too much for me to mess up my future and did not want to be responsible for me missing out on college or having to go to the local community college. He gave me no choice and sent me back home. I cried and resisted and cried some more, but today I am so greatful to him for doing that. If he had let me stay with him, I am pretty sure my parents would have made good on their threat to cut me off completely financially, we would have gotten married and my life would have been so different. Not necessarily bad, but very different--no four year college degree, no law degree, no traveling all over the world. I saw him about five years ago and asked him why. He said he knew that we could have gotten married and "made it", but he knew that I could be so much more with the opportunity to go to college that my parents would pay for and that it would be so much easier for me that way.

Although I agree that children should respect the rules of their home and agree with cell phones, cars, etc being taken away as punishment for breaking those rules, I am afraid that your daughter may call your bluff if you take a hard line on not paying for college if she keeps living with him or seeing him. I think you should still pay for her college, to (1) get her away from his house (At least if she is living at the dorm at her college, she's not living with him!) and (2) once she gets to college, it is very likely he will not fit in her life/lifestyle anymore. It is too bad that she is not going further away than 45 minutes. And I totally agree that she needs to see a professional that can be unbiased in explaining to her about domestic violence and how it starts small and escalates and classic signs of an abuser. She may protest that she is not in that type of relationship, but at least maybe the signs will start adding up in her head and she will get out sooner rather than later.

Again, I cannot believe I am posting this, but for some reason a little voice is telling me it may help someone.

You have NO idea how much your posting has meant to me!!! After reading some posts today, I can see how my pushing her away with my threats could be pushing her closer to him.

I think I will sit down and write her a letter to give her when she comes home and just reinforce the fact of how much I love her and want nothing more than to help her succeed in life without even mentioning what has happened or the fact that she is "dating" him again.
 
You have NO idea how much your posting has meant to me!!! After reading some posts today, I can see how my pushing her away with my threats could be pushing her closer to him.

I think I will sit down and write her a letter to give her when she comes home and just reinforce the fact of how much I love her and want nothing more than to help her succeed in life without even mentioning what has happened or the fact that she is "dating" him again.

I am glad it helped and I hope you and your daughter work it out. :hug:
 
OP as a mom who has been there and done that, my only suggestion to you is to remember she is your dd and sometimes you have to back away just enough for them to realize what they are doing on their own.

My dd was 16 when she started dating a boy, who in the beginning I thought was an ok guy. No big fire alarms went off, he just seem like a normal kid. She is now 21 and I can tell you he is not. She breaks up with him, goes back, breaks up, goes back. She has moved out, moved in, moved out and moved in. I would pick her up and two days later they would be friends and I would be the 'bad' guy for trying to make him look like the 'bad' guy. I finally went to the women's shelter and spoke to one of the counselors. Honestly I couldn't take it anymore. He was also hitting her and she would pretend like something else happened, he got angry with her one night and threw all her clothes out in the yard and poured bleach on everything and she wouldn't call the police. Once, they had a terrible fight I picked her up and in the middle of the night he took a screwdriver and engraved her name in my brand new Yukon and slashed all the tires on our cars. He kept getting away with stuff because there wasn't proof it was him. I wanted to personally do damage to him for the stress and everything else he caused my child and my family. I spoke to his mother...who acted like my kid needed to act better. It never ended.

After speaking to the woman's shelter counselor I stopped and took their advice. If she called in the middle of the night and wanted me to pick her up I had to ask her if she was calling the police. If the answer was no, I had to let her know I could not help her. The most important part of the equation was letting her know I love her but she had to help herself too. If she wanted to come over and stay, we had to understand he was not allowed here period and the first time she left to go back it was the end. She loved him (or thought so anyway) and she was willingly letting everything he did slide. SHE had to be the one that understood his problems and want to get out of it.

I would speak to someone that knows these situations and ask for advice. The bottom line is that if she wants to be with him she is going to. The only thing you can do is provide her with the information on where/who to call if something happens and be there when she does. Without going overboard and making demands and putting yourself out there to be the bad guy. As long as she doesn't see him for who he is she will stay.

Kelly
 











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