Davids DVC: Rental reimbursement or rescheduling?

[fancymouse]

Thats an understatement of all time. Do you really think owners should get paid for something they dont actually give up? Wow Don't have to go to law school to know that's illegal. Can I call you to testify during class action lawsuits?

I don't have a dog in this particular fight. I was just referrencing a poster who contemplated cancelling the reservation in the case they knew the room couldn't be re-rented and the original renter couldn't go. For the record I don't think they were trying to be malicious and I took it as more of a concern as to points going to waste and that does seem unnecessary (assuming there is someone who would go).

In the end, even if the renter could absolutely not go, I think they'd be upset if the owner did this. Logically, this does not make a whole lot of sense since the alternative is for the room to just be empty and to be fair, you'd also need to acknowledge David's would likely not facilitate any of the other possible solutions, so it's not really the owner's fault either.

First, even if an owner felt an obligation to give the money back, a renter would not receive it. David's has been keeping refunds in order to provide vouchers. In that case David's might give you a voucher, but honestly I doubt it. Since the resort is open, the contract does explicitly state the renter would be cancelling. (I get there are extenuating circumstances in the case of NYs or Canadians etc, but for most, it is ultimately a choice and whether they like it or not that's what the contract says).

Also in a situation where the points may have a longer usage and aren't expiring anytime soon, it sounds like David's isn't even offering the option to push the reservation.

Another option might be to give the reservation to a friend or someone the renter chooses. Renters have the right to do this up to 30 days in advance (IIRC), but let's say a renter decides to wait and see if the reservation re-rents, unless David's gives an exception they wouldn't even let you give your reservation to someone at the last minute.

Basically the only two options are to let the room sit empty or (possibly) let the owner try to save the points. The latter requires the renter to be selfless. I think in a situation like this where a renter is left with no options, it would seem like the right thing to do. Maybe that's just me. In reality this is a moot point because David's will most likely enforce the contract in order to keep them legally protected, so I doubt they would let owners officially cancel and keep the money even if that meant the room will be unused.

 

[Sandisw]

Thats an understatement of all time. Do you really think owners should get paid for something they dont actually give up? Wow Don't have to go to law school to know that's illegal. Can I call you to testify during class action lawsuits?

I think that is why owners who went with brokers wont do that. It violates the contract without permission from The broker.

The only way an owner will is if they strike a deal with the renter and the broker that all agree to in a way to amend the contract.

From most posts I have read, owners are simply allowing the reservations o be fulfilled as is now resorts are open.

 

[Dixie1337]

I don't have a dog in this particular fight. I was just referrencing a poster who contemplated cancelling the reservation in the case they knew the room couldn't be re-rented and the original renter couldn't go. For the record I don't think they were trying to be malicious and I took it as more of a concern as to points going to waste and that does seem unnecessary (assuming there is someone who would go).

In the end, even if the renter could absolutely not go, I think they'd be upset if the owner did this. Logically, this does not make a whole lot of sense since the alternative is for the room to just be empty and to be fair, you'd also need to acknowledge David's would likely not facilitate any of the other possible solutions, so it's not really the owner's fault either.

First, even if an owner felt an obligation to give the money back, a renter would not receive it. David's has been keeping refunds in order to provide vouchers. In that case David's might give you a voucher, but honestly I doubt it. Since the resort is open, the contract does explicitly state the renter would be cancelling. (I get there are extenuating circumstances in the case of NYs or Canadians etc, but for most, it is ultimately a choice and whether they like it or not that's what the contract says).

Also in a situation where the points may have a longer usage and aren't expiring anytime soon, it sounds like David's isn't even offering the option to push the reservation.

Another option might be to give the reservation to a friend or someone the renter chooses. Renters have the right to do this up to 30 days in advance (IIRC), but let's say a renter decides to wait and see if the reservation re-rents, unless David's gives an exception they wouldn't even let you give your reservation to someone at the last minute.

Basically the only two options are to let the room sit empty or (possibly) let the owner try to save the points. The latter requires the renter to be selfless. I think in a situation like this where a renter is left with no options, it would seem like the right thing to do. Maybe that's just me. In reality this is a moot point because David's will most likely enforce the contract in order to keep them legally protected, so I doubt they would let owners officially cancel and keep the money even if that meant the room will be unused.

Another option is for the owner to cancel or change the name on the reservation at which point the contract is broken and the renter would be refunded unless the owner can provide the renter with comparable accommodations to sit empty. The owner isn't going to do that, and the renter isn't going to do what you proposed either. As the renter I'm especially not going to do that because I get left with literally nothing and the owner always walks away with something, either money or the reservation. I'll take the empty room.

 

[fancymouse]

Another option is for the owner to cancel or change the name on the reservation at which point the contract is broken and the renter would be refunded unless the owner can provide the renter with comparable accommodations to sit empty. The owner isn't going to do that, and the renter isn't going to do what you proposed either. As the renter I'm especially not going to do that because I get left with literally nothing and the owner always walks away with something, either money or the reservation. I'll take the empty room.

I mean, I get it and contractually you have every right to do this. We have a November rental and since we live in FL we’ll probably wait until the last minute to make a decision. Theoretically, if I could allow my owner to cancel and recoup their points (assuming we decide not to go), I would hope that karma rewards me some day!! Honestly, I am inspired by the owners who said they refunded the money without hesitation because their renters didn’t get their vacation. I know not everyone was in a position to do this, but in my situation, I would lose nothing I wouldn’t already be losing, so I might as well pay it forward! But hopefully your reservation re-rents and everyone wins! Good luck!!

 

[WDWEPCOT]

I was in same situation with Aulani _ I had and have horses on both sides of this as renter and as Owner
Speaking as renter here - before resort closed I couldn’t go travel bans were in place never was I blaming Owner- my blame lies with the Company that handled the deal and made a commission - David’s - since he wouldn’t work with me I did a chargeback LONG before my checkin since resort was closed thru my checkin date and won my dispute
Speaking as an Owner - I have 3 rentals / 2 impacted with resort closures - I’m struggling with working with this shady company trying to rent my points with them as every time you speak to them it’s a different story abd they uphold nothing
I do not trust them one bit as they have no value.
I really believe most people are wanting and trying to do the right thing with one HUGE exception being David’s
Yes I feel sorry beyond words for someone who had a resv and doesn’t want to go and would lose the money - as an Owner I expect to be paid - period the end
As a renter I would pray they close the resort and I’d file a chargeback as there is no way on God’s green Earth I would take that voucher !!

 

[AquaDame]

I was in same situation with Aulani _ I had and have horses on both sides of this as renter and as Owner
Speaking as renter here - before resort closed I couldn’t go travel bans were in place never was I blaming Owner- my blame lies with the Company that handled the deal and made a commission - David’s - since he wouldn’t work with me I did a chargeback LONG before my checkin since resort was closed thru my checkin date and won my dispute
Speaking as an Owner - I have 3 rentals / 2 impacted with resort closures - I’m struggling with working with this shady company trying to rent my points with them as every time you speak to them it’s a different story abd they uphold nothing
I do not trust them one bit as they have no value.
I really believe most people are wanting and trying to do the right thing with one HUGE exception being David’s
Yes I feel sorry beyond words for someone who had a resv and doesn’t want to go and would lose the money - as an Owner I expect to be paid - period the end
As a renter I would pray they close the resort and I’d file a chargeback as there is no way on God’s green Earth I would take that voucher !!

The problem is that "the right thing" is what is up for debate. If you go by the contract then its very cut and dry: resorts are open, so as long as owners do not cancel the reservation they are entitled to 100% of what they were promised, period. Everything following "but" doesn't hold water. It can leave whatever bitter taste in your mouth you like, but it still is what the contract explicitly states - these rooms are available.

People on these boards, which are by and large some of the nicest people I have ever head the pleasure to speak with, are saying exactly this.

As a renter, I AM praying the resort closes again so I can try a charge back. If the numbers weren't gaining steam (this is not an invitation to argue anything at all, I am stating a fact that the numbers are still increasing and nothing else) then I wouldn't even be doing that because I KNOW now we messed up big time by renting. Y'all have drilled that into my head.

 

[WDWEPCOT]

Well I wouldn’t go so far as to say you messed up renting - my stupid crystal ball didn’t tell me this mess was coming... who knew ???

 

[Sandisw]

The problem is that "the right thing" is what is up for debate. If you go by the contract then its very cut and dry: resorts are open, so as long as owners do not cancel the reservation they are entitled to 100% of what they were promised, period. Everything following "but" doesn't hold water. It can leave whatever bitter taste in your mouth you like, but it still is what the contract explicitly states - these rooms are available.

People on these boards, which are by and large some of the nicest people I have ever head the pleasure to speak with, are saying exactly this.

As a renter, I AM praying the resort closes again so I can try a charge back. If the numbers weren't gaining steam (this is not an invitation to argue anything at all, I am stating a fact that the numbers are still increasing and nothing else) then I wouldn't even be doing that because I KNOW now we messed up big time by renting. Y'all have drilled that into my head.

I also think that this entire situation has brought a lot to light for both owners and renters that no one even considered, including, it appears, the broker in dealing with a resort closure,

IMO, its a bad situation all the way around now that things are open and there really is no right or wrong answer as each situation is different.

I am sorry you will be stuck if the resort does not close and you are forced to simply go or lose out.

 

[Dentam]

If you go by the contract then its very cut and dry: resorts are open, so as long as owners do not cancel the reservation they are entitled to 100% of what they were promised, period. Everything following "but" doesn't hold water. It can leave whatever bitter taste in your mouth you like, but it still is what the contract explicitly states - these rooms are available.

And what I am saying is that people need to look beyond what is on paper. It may take government intervention at this point - similar to what has been done already (and more that is being proposed) for the airline industry. Unfortunately companies won't always do what is right on their own. Forcing people to either lose all of their money or go against travel restrictions to enter an area that is considered a hot spot right now is simply not right. It also goes against what the government is trying to institute in terms of public health and safety. I don't care what any contract says.

 

[Minniesgal]

This is what bothers me in this. All of a sudden it’s on the owner?

Renting has risks and this is one of them. Don’t forget that many owners rent excess points for a reason.

Agree to disagree that an owner who holds a renter to their contract is in the wrong.

Agree with this, this is situation normal is a renter rents points and decides for whatever reason not to go.

The whole reason renters get reduced price stays is because they are accepting the cancellation risk. If it were risk free those points would rent a lot higher.

At the end of the day if a renter cancels late the chances of an owner getting back points they can actually use is slim to none.

 

[WDWEPCOT]

It didn’t seem to matter to David’s when Hawaii had travel restrictions and renters would have been held hostage in rooms or sent right back home - then when Aulani closed he still didn’t care - he’s only looking out for $$$ and all he has accomplished is making Owners mad and putting Renters against Owners
There is not a good solution to this problem no matter how it is sliced someone or everyone (except David it seems ) is getting screwed - renters lose money if don’t go or risk virus which they could catch anywhere - Owners may be left with worthless points or demands to return funds or forced into terms they don’t agree with
The one person holding all the cards and making all of this worse is who ??? David’s the company you paid a commission to so you would not have problems ! As Dr Phil would say - How’s that working for ya??

 

[cvjw]

That happened when the resorts were closed. It was a complicated situation. This situation is very straightforward. If you rented points and don't want to go/can't go, but the resort is open, that's on you. They were also giving vouchers out during that time without it being necessary to try to rerent the reservation, since there was no reservation. It was an entirely different scenario.

Nope - happened to me when the resorts were open in March, but the parks were closing. My renters were to check in while the resorts were 100% open for their trip, but the parks were only open a few days. David’s did not want to pay the final 30% on checkin day. I wouldn’t give David’s as much credit to treat the owners fairly as you are doing.

 

[Dixie1337]

Nope - happened to me when the resorts were open in March, but the parks were closing. My renters were to check in while the resorts were 100% open for their trip, but the parks were only open a few days. David’s did not want to pay the final 30% on checkin day. I wouldn’t give David’s as much credit to treat the owners fairly as you are doing.

well... the parks are open too

 

[cvjw]

well... the parks are open too

The parks being open for only half the week didn’t play into the decision by David’s to try and not pay me what they owed me. They tried not to pay because they could - not like I am going to Canada to take them to small claims court to try and recoup my money. I would not be shocked if they did the same to others.

 

[CincyKen]

Hello Everyone!

Longtime lurker but rare poster here. Today I received a letter from my bank credit card stating that my chargeback request has been resolved in my favor. This was for a 6 night Jambo reservation that was to begin on 5/13.

I just wanted to thank everyone for all of the great information in this thread. Without it, it wouldn't have even occurred to me to pursue a chargeback. Much appreciated!

 

[SageG]

I wanted to share the fantastic news with the group that two of my six credit card disputes with David's have been permanently resolved in my favor. (I had 3 rooms reserved, so one dispute for each deposit and one dispute for each balance payment.) For the two disputes that were resolved, I never submitted any paperwork as the Chase representative took the information over the phone and that was it. David's responded to my dispute by saying the contract was nonrefundable, but the Chase representative I spoke with said his argument was not valid and that he would have to prove that he provided the services that I paid for (Chase rejected his argument without asking for any documentation from me).

For the remaining four disputes, I had to complete paperwork with Chase, so I submitted the contracts, an explanation of the situation, etc. Those four are still pending, but the Chase representative said they would expect those disputes to be resolved similarly in the next few weeks. All charges were made on my Chase Sapphire Reserve.

Many thanks to this group for the great information shared via this thread over the past several months. I'm crossing my fingers for all of you that filed disputes that you have a similar outcome!

 

[Chrisv28]

I have a reservation in the first week of September. I am Canadian, and there is a travel ban. David’s is offering the same solution “if the reservation gets rented”, I would get a travel credit. I am 100% ok with it, but I don’t think they’ll be able to rent it at that price. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I should go about trying to get my money back?!

 

[Dixie1337]

I have a reservation in the first week of September. I am Canadian, and there is a travel ban. David’s is offering the same solution “if the reservation gets rented”, I would get a travel credit. I am 100% ok with it, but I don’t think they’ll be able to rent it at that price. Does anyone have any suggestions on how I should go about trying to get my money back?!

I don’t think you can. The resorts are open and you agreed to a nonrefundable reservation. Also you could travel by air if you wanted to but who would want to, and also you wouldn’t be covered for any COVID related medical expenses that might come up while you’re there and again who would want to go under those conditions. But... non refundable

 

[Chrisv28]

I don’t think you can. The resorts are open and you agreed to a nonrefundable reservation. Also you could travel by air if you wanted to but who would want to, and also you wouldn’t be covered for any COVID related medical expenses that might come up while you’re there and again who would want to go under those conditions. But... non refundable

True. I was hoping there’d be something legally preventing David’s from doing This. But honestly I don’t think there is

 

[Sandisw]

True. I was hoping there’d be something legally preventing David’s from doing This. But honestly I don’t think there is

There really isn’t anything legally that allows you out of the contract as what you rented is available.

Unfortunately, this situation has brought to light the real risks of renting something that is non refundable and that things can happen outside our control that can put us at a loss.

I am sorry you can’t make the trip.